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What Twilight Princess HD Could Have Been
- Thread starter Serenitynow
- Start date
I don't think they're new assets. The only significant difference is the lighting engine from TWW HD being applied to them.
They talked about this in the TWW HD Iwata Asks I think. Back in 2012, they experimented with adding new lighting to HD versions of TP and TWW while prepping for the next Zelda.
They decided ultimately that TWW looked better with the new lighting engine and decided to use TWW HD as a base for BotW.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The game wouldn't have looked anywhere close to that on wiiU hardware. Those shots in the OP don't look very good. TP's assets are really shitty so it would take a major reworking to make them look good.The 'HD version' seemed more like a cheap Wii U port than anything else. The visuals are mostly the same except for the new textures, which look really out of place next to everything else. I thought Wind Waker HD was a flawed remake due to failing to accurately transfer the original WW art style to HD, but at least Nintendo tried with that game. I don't want to blame Tantalus too much because in all likelyhood it was Nintendo's fault they had no budget or time or whatever, but this is what the game should have looked like:
But that tech demo was running on Wii U hardware.
Anybody remember these?
I do not, but goddamn are they ugly :|
Haha, true, especially the second pic.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
A visual upgrade like that is all fine and dandy, but I'd prefer a tweaking on some of the design. Up the difficulty and fill the world a little and then I would consider it a worthwhile re-release.
*record scratch*
Wind Waker HD was a travesty. They've ruined the look of the game by dumping every "last gen's next gen" effect (no matter how badly they clashed) on top of a game which used to have very consistent and timeless art design.
The "HD" look wasn't even consistent moment to moment and characters' rendering style appeared to change entirely as they moved between lit and shaded areas because the devs chose to mix toon shading (which appears uniform, essentially disappearing without a directional light source) with conventional shading and harsh rim lighting.
LordKasual
Banned
I hated the wind waker remake. Mainly because the cel shading was pretty much ruined. It looked like a cheap fan imitation of Wind Waker's artstyle.
BotW seems to have correctly captured the Wind Waker style in HD though. And it looks amazing as a result.
BotW seems to have correctly captured the Wind Waker style in HD though. And it looks amazing as a result.
second one looks like it was made in gmod, lolAnybody remember these?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It was rendering only a small room solely with animation, texture, and lighting data turned up as high as possible. Not anything resembling a full game.
Serenitynow
Member
This is interesting. The responses I am getting here do not seem to comply with how I remember each of these games being received.
The Wind Waker HD was critically lauded. Sure, some people had problems with the bloom from the onset, but the vast majority of critics and gamers called it the definitive version of the game and would often say things like, "It breathed new life into the world." I personally would find it hard to go back to the GCN version of that game now.
Twilight Princess HD, on the other hand, I remember being received less favorably. Some of the initial comments after it was revealed in that direct were pretty much, "That's it? It looks the same..." Remember that new key art of TP Link that you see in Best Buys and Walmarts now? We all thought the game would look like that because that art was revealed just a few days after the Twilight Princess HD file was found in the eShop.
So there definitely was disappointment there compared to how TWW HD was received. And I think, looking at the metacritics of each game, and just the overall way these two games are talked about, the majority of people are more fond of TWWHD than TPHD.
Wherever you come down on the whole bloom thing, however, personally I think this is why I was disappointed in Twilight Princess HD:
This looks almost like a new game
This does not
Twilight Princess probably won't be revisited again for a long time. It's a shame to me that what we got was simply better textures and higher resolution, when we could have had an almost entirely new way to view the game. Sure, maybe that way (copious amounts of bloom) wouldn't have jived with you, but it would have for many other people (probably). What we got is boring by comparison (see below).
The Wind Waker HD was critically lauded. Sure, some people had problems with the bloom from the onset, but the vast majority of critics and gamers called it the definitive version of the game and would often say things like, "It breathed new life into the world." I personally would find it hard to go back to the GCN version of that game now.
Twilight Princess HD, on the other hand, I remember being received less favorably. Some of the initial comments after it was revealed in that direct were pretty much, "That's it? It looks the same..." Remember that new key art of TP Link that you see in Best Buys and Walmarts now? We all thought the game would look like that because that art was revealed just a few days after the Twilight Princess HD file was found in the eShop.
So there definitely was disappointment there compared to how TWW HD was received. And I think, looking at the metacritics of each game, and just the overall way these two games are talked about, the majority of people are more fond of TWWHD than TPHD.
Wherever you come down on the whole bloom thing, however, personally I think this is why I was disappointed in Twilight Princess HD:
This looks almost like a new game
This does not
Twilight Princess probably won't be revisited again for a long time. It's a shame to me that what we got was simply better textures and higher resolution, when we could have had an almost entirely new way to view the game. Sure, maybe that way (copious amounts of bloom) wouldn't have jived with you, but it would have for many other people (probably). What we got is boring by comparison (see below).
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
So you wanted a remake and not an HD remaster?
The only significant addition to those shots is the enhanced lighting model from TWW HD.
Are you calling TWW HD a remake now too?
Yup much rather them make BotW and have the other team do TPHD like they did
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
The OP specifically mentions new HD models, if you throw in new models for characters then you are going to have to redo models of everything else or the game is going to look jarring.
Also those screenshots look like shit, the lighting does not flatter TP. Not that the original game had good lighting either.
OP doesn't know what he's talking about. Those models are the same as from TP (look at the polys). They might have new textures (which is what they did anyway for TP HD) but that's about it.
You're acting like the photos shown would have required the level of a remake, when all the work was already done with the lighting engine and self-shadowing in TWW HD, applied to the existing models.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
TPHD was a late in life port used to promote the next game and sell amiibos.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
The pictures are irrelevant to the discussion. Other than that the lighting looks like shit with the models the game has, and that is most likely Nintendo opt'd against using it.
The OP wants a TP Remake with HD models. What he wants is not a remaster it is a remake.
Serenitynow
Member
These were my exact words: "Aonuma has stated that the Zelda team got acclimated to HD development by creating HD versions of old Zelda assets."
These are Aonuma's exact words (via Polygon, 2013): "When we were thinking about the new Zelda for Wii U, which is something we're actually working on, we needed to experiment with a variety of graphic styles and it was part of that process we took some existing Zelda games and made them HD just to see what would happen."
I don't know how you make a game into HD without taking old assets and creating HD versions of those assets.
Also, the point of this thread isn't to argue that this is what Nintendo should have done. Yes, I would have preferred a TPHD with this lighting compared to what we have now. But mainly I'm just trying to draw attention to some cool Nintendo history from the GDC conference that would have been buried under UFOs and Metallica Ganondorf. This is what an updated Twilight Princess from Nintendo would have looked like.
Did everyone forget all the changes Nintendo made to the Wind Waker HD?
One of the major reasons I didn't buy TPHD is because I was not promised the same level of effort.
One of the major reasons I didn't buy TPHD is because I was not promised the same level of effort.
GhostTrick
Banned
The HD version is a glorified HD texture pack. To the point some amateurs actually dumped these textures to use them on the GC version on Dolphin.
These screens just show how a new lighting could've brought some changes to the game.
These screens just show how a new lighting could've brought some changes to the game.
I'm not trying to shit on your thread just for the sake of it, but the TP example is pretty badly cherry-picked. It does look MUCH better and clearer, but the zoomed in, cropped shot doesn't show it off.
Part of the issue is that WW has always looked good, and TP didn't even look good on launch day.
I think a better way to compare "effort" would be to compare each game running upressed in dolphin and compare them to the HD remasters.
StarStabbedMoon
Member
I get the complaints that the style from WW was undermined with the bloom and lighting, but that doesn't mean TP wouldn't have benefited from it. They're two completely different styles. If anything, Nintendo may have mixed up the priorities for improving these games. TP would have benefited alot more from a new lighting engine than WW did.
Bloom, cel-shading, and color balance aside, WW doesn't get enough credit for its largest improvement which was the dynamic lighting, and TP absolutely should have included it, regardless of the style they go for. The lack of proper shadows for anything except character models makes TP look incredibly flat.
Bloom, cel-shading, and color balance aside, WW doesn't get enough credit for its largest improvement which was the dynamic lighting, and TP absolutely should have included it, regardless of the style they go for. The lack of proper shadows for anything except character models makes TP look incredibly flat.
Zee Giesbrecht
Member
Tantalus work for the HD version is all over the place, maybe they were not given enough time to work. As I played TP in anticipation for BoTW I noted many flaws and posted on my Miiverse page.
Missing effect:
They forgot to add the water distortion (around feet) effect for the Ordon Spring. It's present in ALL the other water bodies and springs though.
Missing textures:
Some polygonal mushrooms were added to the Forest Temple. They lack texture here and there.
The case of the 3 bed models:
This is the infamous bed they forgot to change, the geometry and textures are from the Gamecube/Wii version.
They made a newer HD new version though (picture below).
There is a third bed model they use once Prince Ralis leave the bed, the blankets look completely different. I forgot to register this third one.
Ice SD texture:
As you hit big Ice blocks with the Ball and Chain they have different models before they explode. The one on the left was hit once and shows Gamecube/Wii textures while the ones on the right have HD textures.
Hyrule Castle unfiltered door:
On your right a sad unfiltered pixelated door texture, I dont think it looks this bad even on Wii. Gotta check.
City in the Sky:
They messed with the models of the City in the Sky and forgot to place the fans in their places. It looks pretty bad once you realize it. This game needs a patch!
It's a shame, maybe Nintendo will make their own HD version in the future?
(Sorry for the thread bump)
Missing effect:
They forgot to add the water distortion (around feet) effect for the Ordon Spring. It's present in ALL the other water bodies and springs though.
Missing textures:
Some polygonal mushrooms were added to the Forest Temple. They lack texture here and there.
The case of the 3 bed models:
This is the infamous bed they forgot to change, the geometry and textures are from the Gamecube/Wii version.
They made a newer HD new version though (picture below).
There is a third bed model they use once Prince Ralis leave the bed, the blankets look completely different. I forgot to register this third one.
Ice SD texture:
As you hit big Ice blocks with the Ball and Chain they have different models before they explode. The one on the left was hit once and shows Gamecube/Wii textures while the ones on the right have HD textures.
Hyrule Castle unfiltered door:
On your right a sad unfiltered pixelated door texture, I dont think it looks this bad even on Wii. Gotta check.
City in the Sky:
They messed with the models of the City in the Sky and forgot to place the fans in their places. It looks pretty bad once you realize it. This game needs a patch!
It's a shame, maybe Nintendo will make their own HD version in the future?
(Sorry for the thread bump)
Zee Giesbrecht
Member
These flaws make it look like the dev process was a race against the clock. Yes, must be one special model with the character in it.
Do you know what "remade from the ground up" even means? It had more effort, but it was still a remaster.
balgajo
Member
Glad someone made this thread. I was thinking about doing it near GDC panel.
The lack of new illumination really decreased this port value imo. Texture work is great, except for Hyrule Field grass and some other minor things.
Lakebed temple looks amazing well. It's crazy how it is superior than other areas. Almost like a new game.
Is there new shaders mod for this game?
The lack of new illumination really decreased this port value imo. Texture work is great, except for Hyrule Field grass and some other minor things.
Lakebed temple looks amazing well. It's crazy how it is superior than other areas. Almost like a new game.
Is there new shaders mod for this game?
What is "controlling like ass" and "certain sections feel of" refering to exactly?
dampflokfreund
Banned
TP HD was such a disappointment. They didn't add a new lighting engine with dynamic shadows. It breaks my heart that this is the remake and we likely won't get any true remake of the game for a decade.
I am a huge Twilight Princess fanboy, I have a Wii U and I didn't bought it. Simply because all they did was add some new textures, changed the res and added a cave that was locked behind a amiibo. Not paying 45€ for that.
It still looks like a 2006 game, but this time on the PS3 in HD. Its such a disappointment. I can't stress it enough and I can't take anyone seriously who calls this a good remaster. It's not. Its a fast cash cow. Wind Waker HD looks a thousand times better and its not only because of the art style, but because they actually upgraded the graphics to a more modern standard, they added a completely new lighting engine allowing for dynamic lighting and self shadowing as well as dynamic shadows for every object, while TP HD has none of that and looks extremly flat. Hell, the textures doesn't even have bump mapping and lighting, it looks devastating.
I am a huge Twilight Princess fanboy, I have a Wii U and I didn't bought it. Simply because all they did was add some new textures, changed the res and added a cave that was locked behind a amiibo. Not paying 45€ for that.
It still looks like a 2006 game, but this time on the PS3 in HD. Its such a disappointment. I can't stress it enough and I can't take anyone seriously who calls this a good remaster. It's not. Its a fast cash cow. Wind Waker HD looks a thousand times better and its not only because of the art style, but because they actually upgraded the graphics to a more modern standard, they added a completely new lighting engine allowing for dynamic lighting and self shadowing as well as dynamic shadows for every object, while TP HD has none of that and looks extremly flat. Hell, the textures doesn't even have bump mapping and lighting, it looks devastating.
Gonna have to join this chorus. This was a quick cash-in to address a drought on a dying system, and it showed. The saddest part is that the Wind Waker HD's lighting would have been better suited to Twilight Princess than to that game. Rim lighting and Ambient Occlusion and real time shadows would have been very consistent with Twilight Princess's non-cel-shaded art direction, and would have addressed the biggest weaknesses of that game's look - namely the sometimes drab, flat, uniform lighting.
The new textures are fine, and I'm sure for the team in Melbourne cranking them out, it felt like a labor of love. But I actually think it might have been a better use of resources to port the game to the Wind Waker HD engine, even if it meant fewer new textures.
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