There's also an entire generation of boomers that hit retirement age around that time and just said fuck it after a while.
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Why Wages Arent Growing
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There's also an entire generation of boomers that hit retirement age around that time and just said fuck it after a while.
I agree with this.
Prior to the GFC, companies were happy to spread the wealth, after the GFC, it all became about protecting the bottom line, which lead to globalization of jobs occurring.
With globalization, everybody is competing in a global wage market, thus an employer in America or Australia need to decide if he wants to spend $100k on an employee locally or maybe $20k to get someone to do it in China. If he can get the same service, why would he take the local employee? Of course there are many problems with getting things outsourced like language barrier, different working times, but if the order from up top is to cut wages, then getting outsourced labour is an option many companies have taken.
I honestly think this is going to become a HUGE problem in the long run. Theoretically, if globalization continues, things will need to become more or less parity in many places in the world. Right now a American gets vastly overpaid to do their work compared to someone doing the same work in China. Is an American willing to work for a lot less to keep their job?
Also I was looking at Export/Imports figures the other day.
It was something like this -
US Exports $1T Imports $2T
China Exports $2T Imports $1T
That looks to me like China makes $2 saves $1. US makes $1 spends $2. Read into it however you want, but it looks like China is getting wealthier, and the US isn't.
That's not how any of this works.
China is getting wealthier(actually their total net worth has been dropping the last couple years as a result of their debt issues, but over the long term I expect this to be true), of course, but so is the US:
There's a reason anyone who can is getting their money out of China and buying real estate or whatever else they can elsewhere(including the US).
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Having a job isn't the same as having a good job
Unknown Soldier
Member
There are plenty of unions in countries which are not America. It's not helping.
Wages aren't growing because of policy.
Industries are Monopolistic, or concentrated enough to apply Monopolistic practices on labor markets.
And the world thinks inflation is worse than Hitler, and has driven inflation to historic lows (mainly so huge piles of corporate and private cash just sitting around isn't inflated away into useless paper)
Trust bust so there's competition again, and get inflation to a healthy 3-4%, and wages will rise.
Industries are Monopolistic, or concentrated enough to apply Monopolistic practices on labor markets.
And the world thinks inflation is worse than Hitler, and has driven inflation to historic lows (mainly so huge piles of corporate and private cash just sitting around isn't inflated away into useless paper)
Trust bust so there's competition again, and get inflation to a healthy 3-4%, and wages will rise.
makingmusic476
Member
I don't see why full employment would cause wages to grow in any more than a handful of areas. Yeah, firms like Amazon and Google will compete for the top software engineers, likewise Apple and Sony for computer engineers, but warehousemen will still be paid like warehousemen and T1 IT will still be paid like T1 IT. Employers have little incentive to pay more, and people will still need those jobs.
So long as the wealth produced by labor remains privatized, those who control that wealth can continue giving as little of it back to the workers as they can.
What good is a bidding war for high level software engineers to the large portion of the population that's not in a highly skilled profession?
So long as the wealth produced by labor remains privatized, those who control that wealth can continue giving as little of it back to the workers as they can.
What good is a bidding war for high level software engineers to the large portion of the population that's not in a highly skilled profession?
Maybe not a great example. Salaries for "Warehouse Associate" rose by 6.3% last year, making it among the jobs with the highest wage growth.
https://www.glassdoor.com/research/sweet-spot-jobs-with-high-pay-and-rapid-growth/
And if you are curious, here is the official data on wage growth by skill level over the last two decades:
Youngfossil
Neo Member
wait... you honestly believe that trunking wont be automated in 15 year? We're not talking about some far off technology, its being tested now. how primitive do you think self driving tech is? It's not hypothetical more like preparing yourself for the inevitable blow. Some predictions say that it will display 1.2 m workers. cant find the numbers on ford assembly line layoff to compare
rokkerkory
Member
I read somewhere that the move to companies being public and prioritizing shareholder value is part of the cause? When profits are all that matters to wall street you have to squeeze somewhere and that's ops-x spending ie wages.
GregLombardi
Member
It's very simple.
Company Revenue - 1000
Company Costs, including Employee Wages - 600
Undeclared Absurd Wealth Pass To Equity Holders of Company - 400
Employees cannot break into the 400, no matter what they do or how hard they work. And no matter how lazy equity holders are they never lose, or allow themselves to redistribute their 400. The cycle keeps going.
This is literally an explanation for what goes on in every business across the planet in capitalism. Or what will go on as businesses mature, and good workers leave.
Capitalism is an abject failure and a farce in the modern era.
Company Revenue - 1000
Company Costs, including Employee Wages - 600
Undeclared Absurd Wealth Pass To Equity Holders of Company - 400
Employees cannot break into the 400, no matter what they do or how hard they work. And no matter how lazy equity holders are they never lose, or allow themselves to redistribute their 400. The cycle keeps going.
This is literally an explanation for what goes on in every business across the planet in capitalism. Or what will go on as businesses mature, and good workers leave.
Capitalism is an abject failure and a farce in the modern era.
Reduction in global poverty has been tremendous, and in part due to pro-growth policies adapted by emerging economies, but economies need different prescriptions at different stages of life. What has helped bust extreme poverty in the Global South is not what can help raise wages in the persistent stagnation environment that the developed world now finds itself in.
You're right in that part of the problem is inequality, not only of capital taking too large of a share but because some workers in some sectors are where all the productivity growth is coming from, and that this isn't being spread over to other sectors which are hamstrung by a lack of innovation (which isn't to say you can innovate your way out of it. How could you make a Wal-Mart cashier vastly more productive than they are today?)
Airplanes have been automated for many years now, yet we still have a pilot and a co-pilot sitting up there in the cockpit. Trains are perhaps the simplest to automate, yet we still have a human acting as conductor.
It seems entirely possible to me that we will have trucks that automate most of the driving in 15 years that still have an employee of the trucking company sitting in the driver's seat. There are lots of reasons why this might happen - regulatory, insurance, maintenance, theft prevention, limitations of the automated capability, or simply as a failsafe.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Those lazy wealth holders help finance the company. Not sure why they don't deserve any returns on their investment.
The best way for wage earners to increase their pay is to force companies to compete for their skills. You have to be willing to change jobs often. Those are the people with the highest wages.
What about the affect of automation of these transport mediums on the skill requirement/pay of their opporators. Eventually they become oversaturated low pay no skill jobs. Also the correlation between size and overall dangerous momentum of the transport vehicle to the requirements of oversight for liability? Plane's at their size and absurd speed only have 2 people for accountability. Trains are the same even with their absurd weight and near unstoppability. Eventually if automation is safe enough the human aspect eventually becomes a liability and is removed.
On a separate note, how about crafting UBI by developing a government investment fund that acquires shareholdings for the sake of dividends that get split among their adult citizens. Shareholders get to keep being shareholders while citizens slowly join the ranks of equity holders through their governing body.
The biggest reason trucking will not be completely automated is that there needs to be someone there when the truck reaches it's destination to sign off on the delivery, sometimes to unload the goods, etc. The occupation of truck driver does not merely consist of operating the vehicle.
Obviously automated trucks will have an effect on truck driver wages, as it will vastly increase the pool of people capable of doing the job, but it's not all one sided. Automated trucks will also increase the productivity of drivers(at least the long haul drivers) by being able to be on the road for more hours of the day.
I've suggested this very thing on here before. IMO it's the only way to properly do UBI, you can't do it sustainably through taxation and redistribution(even if you think such an idea is fair and just, which I do not). My idea was that revenue from leases of mineral rights or logging rights or wireless spectrum goes into a sovereign wealth fund that pays dividends to every citizen. My idea is that it would pay out to children as well(and probably most importantly), to be kept in a trust to be used to pay for education(or to be paid out when the person reaches 25 or 30 or whenever if they choose not to go to college).
The great thing about paying it out to children as well is that if you start at birth, you really only need small annual payments to completely pay for a college education, and the initial payments would have to be small.
You could probably just take the money going to all the federal loan and grant programs and re implement it this way without any substantial increase in spending even in the absence of the general UBI idea. This would be a more equitable way to subsidize education though, because the current subsidies(and even more the Bernie style 'free college for everyone' idea) largely go to the middle and upper classes, not to the working class.
The working class kids who probably aren't going to make it in college can choose to use the funds for vocational training or tools or just invest it in starting a business or whatever.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
It's out of control. My wife and I are incredibly fortunate and collectively make $165K combined and still have two roommates living in Los Angeles. Our mortgage is ~$4K a month so we rely on roommates as we also have $80K in student debt hanging over our heads.
SoulstealerMex
Neo Member
Hello GAF, I can't post new threads and I didn't really know where to ask (I searched for jobs, wages) so I bumped this thread.
With a 70k usd/year salary in Michigan (before taxes). What kind of life can I expect? I'm already a family man and recently got a job offer for that sum. Can Michigan-GAF give me some insight in what to expect with that income? Where are the best places to live (cost/benefit speaking)?
I have already checked google for many of this questions but I'm not able to come to a conclusion, can you guys help me out? I appreciate your help!!
With a 70k usd/year salary in Michigan (before taxes). What kind of life can I expect? I'm already a family man and recently got a job offer for that sum. Can Michigan-GAF give me some insight in what to expect with that income? Where are the best places to live (cost/benefit speaking)?
I have already checked google for many of this questions but I'm not able to come to a conclusion, can you guys help me out? I appreciate your help!!
What part of Michigan? Where are you moving from?
SoulstealerMex
Neo Member
Well, the company HQ is in Livonia, and I have to go over there. I also think it will be a bit cumbersome trying to move from there, because I have to complete a full training for about six months.
I'm from Mexico, software developer
Tapioca
Banned
You'll be able to have a car, a decent apartment, never be hungry, and buy a lot of video games. Michigan has a low cost of living. Most Americans make no where near 70k, especially in Michigan.
Will your wife have an income also? Or will 70k be your household income?
Hi! I live in East Lansing but know Livonia pretty well. $70k/yr is going to get you actually quite a bit in Michigan. Cost of living is rather low. Livonia is at the higher end of things but overall it's still pretty ok.
Do you like driving? If you can handle a slightly longer commute you can live out in a slightly cheaper but pretty nice area in Brighton, or even Novi which is closer but still pretty ok. All in all it's based on what you're looking for.
Are you single? Do you have kids? Metro Detroit is more expensive than most of the rest of the state, but 70K here is pretty damn good. You can also find a less expensive place to live if you don't need a place with a good school district.
I hope you can drive. Mass transit in Michigan isn't really a thing, but you'll be fine with your salary.
SoulstealerMex
Neo Member
My wife won't be working for a good while, so yes, my income will be the whole household for a couple years.
I also have 2 kids, both of them are still young (4 and 2), I do like driving though! I think we should be fine with a small house or apartment for some years, we are looking for at least 2 rooms, 1 full bathroom and near public transport or schools, how much does that kind of home rent cost?
On average in that area you're probably looking at somewhere around $900-1200/mo depending on where you are. Some places in that area are upwards to $1500/mo so do some shopping around. The Detroit area's weird in that you have super expensive practically next to affordable housing.