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Irrational Games shutting down, 2K takes over BioShock, KL in new 15 person DD studio

M

mediapulp_wes

Member
Bravo Ken for being utterly selfless...oops typo...

Bravo Ken for being utterly selfish and firing most of your studio's staff so that you can follow your heart. I'm sure everyone who worked under you (and their families) are thrilled by your decision and wish you all the best in this joyous new endeavour.

I hope everyone who was made redundant today manages to find work elsewhere. I'm sure they'll end up better for it in the end.
 
D

dragonbane

Member
JPizzle84 said:
What a bummer. I loved Infinite. I wonder if their change in direction is going to be like the recent TellTale games.
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I wouldn't be surprised by this. It sounds exactly like what Levine wants to make and where his talent (as a screenwriter) would be put to use the best way possible. 2K supporting it might also result in some competent tech unlike Telltale. I'm pretty interested in what he does next, definitely more exciting to me than Infinite already.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
This is such a young industry it still amazes people when anyone voluntarily retires or changes position. 20 years at the same job in a creative industry would be like working on The Simpsons or MNF.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
He used the phrase "re-playable narrative" like twice in that letter. I hope he means that in the systemic FarCry2/DayZ sense and not in the branching narrative sense.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
Montresor said:
So the dev team that made Bioshock 1, Bioshock 2, Minerva's Den (better than the entirety of Bioshock 2, although #2 was still good), and Bioshock Infinite is dead. The industry is a little worse for gamers after today.
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Dev teams. Bioshock 2 and Minerva's Den were made by 2K Marin. Which was shut down also.
 
D

Dimefan3

Member
That sucks, hopefully the Irrational guys bounce back and end up on some cool projects in the future.

I agree with Bedlam, the problem is the Triple A titles are being pigeon-holed into First Person Shooters at the whim of the publishers, and that's killing the creativity of the industry's best people.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Doran902 said:
The game industry is full of people who know nothing about the game industry but have money / business degrees trying to abuse it and things like government funding, tax breaks and other things in order to make money.

Actually thats just most industries.
Click to expand...

It's also full of more people who have a deep love of video games, have been playing and making them their whole lives and want to see the industry grow and prosper.

However, the growth in development costs is not being offset by growth in revenues.
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
Bedlam said:
Yeah, even the creators have become fed up with that triple-A, generic shooter bs. That kind of formulaic and constrained development environment institutionalized by big publishers is just not the place to make great and innovative games. Rather, it's the place where your creative spark burns out.
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Cogs of War...I mean...The Order:1886 says hello.

I have a feeling more people than just Kevin Levine were fed up with Bioshock; Infinite sounded like a very painful project and the result is something that I'm not sure Levine is real proud of.

I do think this is a good move. However if Kevin is going to focus on narrative, I do hope he hires a better writing staff.

Alternately, he could always change his name to Kevin Devine and produce a series of games based on John Waters films.
 
C

coolasj19

Why are you reading my tag instead of the title of my post?
Gorillaz said:
That's putting it lightly.
Compared to other devs under Sony, Naughty Dog basically gets a blank check
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They had to do work to get there. And honestly, seeing as how they made Uncharted 2 for $20 Million, those blank checks can't be that large.

This is what happens when you take 5-6 years to make one game.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
This is such a young industry it still amazes people when anyone voluntarily retires or changes position. 20 years at the same job in a creative industry would be like working on The Simpsons or MNF.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, I think working in such a creative industry carries with it the risk of complete and total burnout. The Simpsons had a very high turnover rate for their writing staff the first few seasons (till about season 9 or 10).

So, I sympathize with creators from that perspective. It's fucking HARD to keep coming up with idea after idea after idea.
 
GhaleonQ

GhaleonQ

Member
The implications of this are huge and need proper address, but let me merely say: everyone, sorry. Shawn Elliott: very sorry.
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
This is such a young industry it still amazes people when anyone voluntarily retires or changes position. 20 years at the same job in a creative industry would be like working on The Simpsons or MNF.
Click to expand...

If this was voluntarily and Irrational made money they would have not shut down .
They would just set up a small team for him and let him do his thing .

Gorillaz said:
That's putting it lightly.

Compared to other devs under Sony, Naughty Dog basically gets a blank check
Click to expand...

They get a blank check because there games make money if not they would be just like all the other studios that Sony shut down .
 
E

Eusis

Member
coolasj19 said:
They had to do work to get there. And honestly, seeing as how they made Uncharted 2 for $20 Million, those blank checks can't be that large.

This is what happens when you take 5-6 years to make one game.
Click to expand...
Cases like those ARE the silver linings for those who hope budgets can be slashed without compromise. But then the compromise maybe that more temperamental creative minds get cut out.

But then many of them are probably better left to smaller projects anyway if they can't at least control those tendencies somewhat. Despite Kojima's reputation MGS games have come out on a more reliable than not time frame, roughly averaging 3 years between each entry until 4, and given Peace Walker WAS MGS5 initially that took 2 years itself from 4.
 
D

Doran902

Member
CosmicQueso said:
It's also full of more people who have a deep love of video games, have been playing and making them their whole lives and want to see the industry grow and prosper.

However, the growth in development costs is not being offset by growth in revenues.
Click to expand...

Most of the people your talking about don't get to be in charge unless its an indie studio or they have worked up to a management role / opened their own studio.

I was referring more to the business peeps at the top of the chain of medium to large companies who use things like focus testing and market trends to make games instead of passion, creativity and love of the art form. (to be fair to them, their job is to make money and that's the best way they know to do it)

There are good ones out there, but a lot of the time the passionate people who pour their heart and soul out on a project, work unpaid overtime and love what they do are the ones who lose their jobs first.

And yeah, why spend 200 million on marketing if your only gonna sell a couple million copies : /.
 
B

BlackBuzzard

Banned
gundamkyoukai said:
If this was voluntarily and Irrational made money they would have not shut down .
They would just set up a small team for him and let him do his thing .



They get a blank check because there games make money if not they would be just like all the other studios that Sony shut down .
Click to expand...

Dont you know Sony loves to fund things that dont make them any money...
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
sflufan said:
It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that people are treating this as if it was Ken Levine's decision.
Click to expand...

Not that I disagree with your premise, but it shouldn't be mind boggling people are discussing the official story and the only official words from his mouth on the matter.

Rather than, you know, making guesses.
 
molnizzle

molnizzle

Member
The more I think about this situation, the more disillusioned I find myself becoming with gaming as a whole. Gaming is my main hobby and always has been. Sometimes I don't know exactly why I enjoy it so much, but I do, and nothing else really comes close.

And you know what? I thoroughly enjoy AAA games. I like fancy graphics, I like having well-acted voice work for every single line of dialogue and I like elaborate set-pieces. I guess that I just appreciate high production values in general. I understand the Y2Kevian argument that the budgets aren't sustainable and we need to better support indies. I get it, it makes sense. However, if you went back in time and asked 8-year-old me to imagine the types of games I would be playing as an adult... they wouldn't look like fucking Spelunky.

Ugh. Fuck everything.
 
M

Mr. Poolman

Member
Soon the console gaming industry will be:
- Cover-based third person shooters
- CoD and FPS trying to emulate it
- Sports games franchises

PC gaming industry will move to (including the above):
- Indies within various genres and risky ideas
- DotA and LoL
- Minecraft

Unless the industry shake itself up, there will be a decreasing number of "AAA" games since most studios can't finance the increasing costs.

And for those saying that ND does something right, well what they do is create very safe games that cater to their target demographic while backed by Sony's muscle.

I'm afraid that true gameplay innovation is truly gone from the console scenario (I was really disappointed to discover that Order 1886 was just another cover based TPS with QTEs)
 
M

MisterSamMan

Member
Interested in seeing what Ken Levine does with a small dev team and of course, I hope everyone lands on their feet. That was a great studio with awesome talent.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Are costs really going up that much for next gen? Pachter was talking about this in a recent GameTrailers video and said that he heard costs were going up 10-15% short term, but could settle back into the realm of 360/PS3 era games once new processes were in place.

I mean, of course Pachter isn't the fount of ultimate truth, but one would think he'd at least know about costs.
 
S

sflufan

Banned
Ntsouls said:
Dude screw this guy. You can make triple A games without budget. Look at Metro. Look at STALKER.
Click to expand...

Stay with me here for a second.

Where were STALKER and Metro made? That's right, they were made in Ukraine, a nation of the former Soviet Union where costs, especially labor costs, are significantly lower than in more developed societies.
 
G

Gorillaz

Member
coolasj19 said:
They had to do work to get there. And honestly, seeing as how they made Uncharted 2 for $20 Million, those blank checks can't be that large.

This is what happens when you take 5-6 years to make one game.
Click to expand...

gundamkyoukai said:
If this was voluntarily and Irrational made money they would have not shut down .
They would just set up a small team for him and let him do his thing .



They get a blank check because there games make money if not they would be just like all the other studios that Sony shut down .
Click to expand...

Pretty much. That and the fact they been with them for over a decade, even before the buyout back in late PS1 days
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
mediapulp_wes said:
Bravo Ken for being utterly selfless...oops typo...

Bravo Ken for being utterly selfish and firing most of your studio's staff so that you can follow your heart. I'm sure everyone who worked under you (and their families) are thrilled by your decision and wish you all the best in this joyous new endeavour.

I hope everyone who was made redundant today manages to find work elsewhere. I'm sure they'll end up better for it in the end.
Click to expand...

JoeTheBlow said:
The big artists looking at the success and total freedom enjoyed by the indie sweethearts and breaking free of the corporate leashes.
That's all this is.
Click to expand...

Okay this is just getting embarrassing now.

Take-Two should have just had Ken write that he was laying off the studio because pink elephants invaded and we'd probably still have a ton of people taking it at face value.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Doran902 said:
Most of the people your talking about don't get to be in charge unless its an indie studio or they have worked up to a management role / opened their own studio.
Click to expand...

Not in my experience. And not in this case. The people at Take 2 have proven they're willing to take the time that is required to make great games. They understand the business as well as the art. The people at Irrational loved making great games.

Many people who run the remaining publishers have long histories in the space. You're stating 1%er generalities by pointing to the 'evil suits' rather than seeing the situation for what it is... due to increasing development costs and uncertainty in the disc based software space they think they can be more successful moving into smaller, digital development.
 
D

Doran902

Member
CosmicQueso said:
Not in my experience. And not in this case. The people at Take 2 have proven they're willing to take the time that is required to make great games. They understand the business as well as the art. The people at Irrational loved making great games.

Many people who run the remaining publishers have long histories in the space. You're stating 1%er generalities by pointing to the 'evil suits' rather than seeing the situation for what it is... due to increasing development costs and uncertainty in the disc based software space they think they can be more successful moving into smaller, digital development.
Click to expand...

I'm just bitter because I have been laid off a couple times.

ClivePwned said:
Bioshock Finite
Click to expand...

Snap.
 
C

Comet

Member
Like every mature industry out there, the games industry is quickly realizing that project management is an invaluable skill. Sucks that the massive team behind Infinite is gone (even if I didn't think the game was great) just like that.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Neuromancer said:
But Bioshock 2 was great. Too bad 2K Marin got shuttered.
Click to expand...

The gameplay was an improvement. The story was hampered by being tacked onto 1. Plus how costly was Bioshock 2 when it got to crib assets from 1? The next Bioshock probably wont get to do that.
 
A

A-V-B

Member
HK-47 said:
The gameplay was an improvement. The story was hampered by being tacked onto 1. Plus how costly was Bioshock 2 when it got to crib assets from 1? The next Bioshock probably wont get to do that.
Click to expand...

Minerva's Den was amazing.

Yes, I'm going to bring that up in every single topic that mentions Bioshock 2.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
When you spend as much money to gloss up and promote a game with mechanics firmly stuck in 1995, you're bound to lose enough money to cause major waves.
 
F

Femmeworth

Banned
This seems like good news to me, a smaller team will give him more creative freedom. It's bad for those losing their job, no question there.
 
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