NullPointer
Member
Yep, Steam is a subscription and each game is a separate 'service'.
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How come PC digital distribution services are free and Xbox Live / PSN cost money?
- Thread starter Seagoon
- Start date
in the legal sense but not in the practical sense which people are using here, as in "a service for which you pay a subscription fee"
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I hate to cut out but I have to run. Very good points on the opposing side. I do hope I am wrong.
Ah I see where you're coming from. Thanks. My understanding is that this still based on providing licenses, and these are what grant access but not ownership(?). I still consider myself to have ownership of games, as games now not on sale, are still providing access - as they should
FeiRR
Banned
My life experience tells me to take law seriously, especially if money is involved.
You don't own those games and you can't sell them. You own a licence granted for an undefined period to use a given game. It's not your property as understood by law.
SoapyLemons
Neo Member
My bodily fluids have discharged.
Nintendo, you're making me not regret this Wii U purchase after all.
Nintendo, you're making me not regret this Wii U purchase after all.
i don't understand your point here.
you asked "why do people care about what i pay for", he answered "i don't but it bothers me that people argue something is free when it's not", and then you started nitpicking semantics
I suppose that's true for my itunes music and kindle books too. Ok, I'll message you as soon as I can't use any of the games I have purchased. Nine+ years without issue so far. Finger crossed it stays the same.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
If I stopped playing after a year I'd have tried/played/beaten 60 games as opposed to 24 games. On top of that these are much more recent titles than what Microsoft offers. And thanks to Microsoft I need to pay to play my online games, so chances are I'll renew my subscription anyway. So that's my 60 games plus another 60 games. It'll take almost six years of Live Gold to amass that much content. I'll delete more games in a year than Microsoft will give out. Doesn't really bother me that I don't "own" the licenses of digital content. You don't truly own anything digital anyway.
Additionally, PS+ gives awesome discounts all the time. I've made my money for this year back easily already this year in discounts alone.
The PC isn't direct competition for consoles. One is for the bed room and the other is made for the living room. Sure people use their pcs in the living room too, but that's a small section of the PC community. And Phones don't have free mp. Most people pay 100+ a month, whether they talk or not. The bottom line is that Ms got away with it last generation and from Sonys perspective they are leaving money on the table. They charge money for it because they should (as a business trying to turn a profit). What's the point of making games if you're not going to make a profit?
If someone really didn't want to download a game through steam or have steam running while they play the game, they could just buy a key off of one of many distributors (GMG, Gamersgate or even steam) and just go pirate the game and apply a crack. There, DRM-free.
Of course, most of us are weak-willed heathens who enjoy games with steam integration.
Of course, most of us are weak-willed heathens who enjoy games with steam integration.
As far as I know, it's not clear cut.
Recent FPS games still require dedicated servers to function as traffic hubs, scoring, source of truth for current in-game state and global stats. There is a push-pull regarding how much processing is offloaded away from authoritative servers.
Dude, stop. You don't know what you're talking about. PC's aren't like home gaming consoles in which they're owned by a simple manufacturer.
Steam doesn't exactly own the PC market like you think that they do; there are plenty of other competitors besides them. Plus they even offer games in which they can't even be found on Steam, as Opiate among other posters have mentioned earlier.
And PC gamers certainly won't put up with paywalls of online multiplayer. Look at what happened with Microsoft when they tried that shit on PC gaming before. Tons of people stood up against it, & Microsoft dropped it.
Since he's gotten himself banned and you agree with everything he said, can you name some examples of times where PC gamers have "[done] anything to get their fix"?
sony tried to have a free network and still do if you game on ps3 but everyone complains about its quality. Its not a coincidence that their network has improved a lot since ps+ has been growing. I dont know enough to explain why steam can do it other then that it is not a closed network like psn or live is.I am sure not all money from these subs are going into infrastructure but i dont think sony is making a killing either. I think they are doing a great job with my cash by offering up all these great games on ps+.
I wasnt aware there is a better deal then ps+
Its a pretty dam good deal.
Please.
You can't even browse for free. :')
wow that is oppressive. The more I hear about xbox live the happier I am with my platforms of choice
I wasnt aware there is a better deal then ps+
Its a pretty dam good deal.
Not paying for online multiplayer is a better deal I think
The way I see it , I dont pay for online multiplayer, between the free games i get for vita,ps3, and ps4 . I actually feel like I come out in the black on this deal. I only have access to these games but since I dont plan on canceling anytime soon it makes no difference to me.
there are very few games I would have to keep forever. Im ok with keeping my ps+ games for as long as Ps+ exists
does steam keep out aim bots and other cheating software from online gaming? I really like steam and I really like pc gaming but it has its pros and cons.
FeiRR
Banned
Because it is, for some people. You take only two aspects into consideration: price and period of accessibility. We're here an enthusiast forum. We follow gaming news and are generally informed about how and where to buy games. I have dozens of friends who bought PS3s because of PS+. They have other interests, work, children, etc. They aren't invested in gaming that much. Would I call them casuals? Maybe. But some of these casuals platinum Dark Souls. Anyway, they come home after work, they download games offered by PS+, try them, enjoy (or not), then try other games next month. They don't care they'll lose those games in a few years when they stop paying for the service. They also don't care that maybe they could have five times more games bought for that money on Steam sales. Because they will not play five times more games and they don't have time or incentive to follow those sales and, what's the most important, to choose which games to buy. Some of them don't know English well enough for that, some don't have time, some don't want to spend money on a gaming PC, some just don't give a shit. They pay for a service, they are given a selection of fine games and they're happy with that. PS+ is the best service for them.
I think the closest market idea to that on PC would be Humble Bundles, which I also buy very frequently. And even though I've been gaming on computers for almost 30 years and I have a gaming rig, I still prefer consoles for many reasons and PS+ is one of them (although not the most important).
Wolf Akela
Member
VAC is very good at it. In my 2000+ hours on VAC games, I've seen maybe 2-3 cheaters.
Before you bring up Dark Souls, it doesn't use VAC.
I'm not sure how consoles treat bans though. For VAC, it only bans you from VAC-protected servers for the same engine. Eg, get VAC-banned on TF2, you get VAC-banned on CS:GO, L4D, etc.. You can still play on non-secure servers, you can still play/buy games.
DynamoJack
Banned
Because people are used to it on consoles and keep putting money into it, fees were tried for PC but thankfully failed.
Anytime its questioned or someone complains about it and that complaint goes somewhat viral, free codes are given out to quell the uprising.
Anytime its questioned or someone complains about it and that complaint goes somewhat viral, free codes are given out to quell the uprising.
The problem people have with VAC is that it bans in waves so as to cast a wider net, meaning it's up to server admins to deal with cheaters in the interim.
I think PS+ is great for folks who have general, broad interests in games.
It's horrible for the folks who have narrower tastes such as myself, and it's clear that the PSN junk fee is directed to keep folks like myself off of their consoles (we're not as profitable a customer)
Same with the Kaz gifs and Beanie avatars right? That's just a joke like Lord Gaben and stuff right?
So "meme-fication" of one company is alright on one forum but "meme-fication" of other company is to be taken seriously on other forums? Good to know.
Also, lol at the video. Thanks for proving my point.
Because he is the only figure that's prominent in the PC scene right now?
grandwizard
Member
You have gone off the deep end. You used to hide it much better than this.
Objectively Bad Opinion
Member
This post is weapons-grade cringe.
Epic, simply epic. I tip my fedora to you sir and accept my defeat...
Because he is one of the founders of Valve who made Steam which are in milions of peoples eyes the savior of PC gaming.
Steam's meteoric rise in popularity that kicked off in the mid-2000s is considered the chief catalyst for the PC again being considered among publishers as an important platform (even Microsoft is slowly changing its tune despite the slight conundrum the company is in by virtue of having Windows and Xbox). There's a common narrative that Valve is, in a large way, responsible for the healthy state that PC gaming is in today. In other words, your understanding of the meme is backwards: Valve isn't largely revered because it's "protecting" PC gaming, but because it played a prominent role in nursing the platform to a point where it no longer needed to be protected.
The Incredible Muffin
Member
Simple answer? Because they can, and people will through their money at it. They have a monopoly.
No one in the PC world will make any money if they will charge money while Steam Ubi Origin doesnt.
No one in the PC world will make any money if they will charge money while Steam Ubi Origin doesnt.
MutonCommander
Banned
You are missing the point, I believe. I have two problems with PS+ as a concept:
a) Multiplayer for the entire platform was put behind a paywall and
b) You lose access to your library of PS+ games if you ever decide to stop subscribing.
Now, whatever good value PS+ might represent for some people, even for a lot of people, these two things should be absolutely, totally unacceptable for any enthusiast gamer who cares about consumer rights. It's Sony, a company that does stuff "for the gamers" if we are to believe the expertly crafted marketing campaign, holding both multiplayer and your PS+ library hostage unless you keep paying the sybscription. Sony took away something that was free last gen and put it behind the PS+ paywall because it believed it could get away with it. The fact that it represents better value than Xbox Live does not mean anything.
petran79
Banned
I think this is the main reason. Microsoft lost a fortune with the original Xbox and GFWL, hence they charge for Xbox360.
Sony had losses with the PS3 too, hence they came up with a mandatory subscription
MutonCommander
Banned
Maybe it originates in a dislike of the shitty practices prevalent in console gaming? I had no dislike towards consoles, I owned quite a lot of them over the years. I left them behind when Sony went batshit crazy with the PS3 and Microsoft introduced a subscription requirement for multiplayer. That's when I said "fuck it, I'm out" and went PC only.
That is rich coming from you.
test_account
XP-39C²
Its not gone yet. Its still free on PS3 and Vita. Free to Play games like War Thunder can also be played online for free.
Then please explain how Steam is more a 'trap' that a PS4 with PS+. If you ditch the PS4 then you won't be able to play the games you bought for it (as in any hardware change) but now with the PS+ you also stand to lose all the library of the 'free' games you have been paying to have access for on a monthly basis - an ever increasing investment that's unlike regular purchases. Therefore a decision to move away from the PS4 will hurt the most because you will be losing or at least not using the benefits that you payed tens and hundreds of dollars for on top of the money you spent for regular game purchases. It's a bitter pill to swallow and hence the user is more likely to stick with the platform even though he would like to switch to another.
You know, I didn't really understand why Shinobi requested a perma due to GAF taking up too much of his life. Now I know, he didn't want to fall into something like this. Jesus Christ, this is a video games forum. A pastime of little significance.
MutonCommander
Banned
Yeah, that post is actually a little scary.
I wish Steam would charge me and give me something like Steam+.
lifeexpectancy
Member
You misunderstand the system. Nothing is stopping you from purchasing content on XBL and PSN without a subscription. The only thing you need a subscription for on PSN is to play multiplayer. You can stream Netflix, Hulu, etc without it. On XBL you need a subscription for multiplayer AND to use the web browser, Netflix, etc.
However, as for the digital distribution 'system', aka the storefront, that can all be accessed without a subscription.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Putting aside the fact that any remaining credibility you had on GAF burst into flames when you posted that nonsense, your argument is completely absurd anyway.
If I change hardware entirely, my games still work and I lose nothing. I can buy any GPU or CPU, and still play all the games I've bought. If you buy a ps4 you can't even play the "free" games you were graciously allowed to rent when you had a ps3, and if you buy an Xbone you lose it all.
If I want to leave Steam, I download my games and crack the ones which have DRM; and yes, that's perfectly legal where I'm from. Adding to that, not all games on Steam have DRM, and publishers like EA and CD Projekt allow you to register your games with them too so that you can use their services if you like. Good luck ever getting access to any of your rentals if you want to stop using PS+
So there is zero legitimacy to the claim that Steam represents a greater lock in than console services. PC as a platform is about openness, any attempt to wall you in will go nowhere.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Damn PC gamers just got put out to pasture.
jim-jam bongs
Member
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
A helpful diagram for some participants in this thread.
I attempted to think of a worse analogy, with even broader grasping at concepts, involving marriage and how consoles are like arranged marriages and PCs are like marriages based on mutual respect. But then it's like, that analogy is actually good.
I attempted to think of a worse analogy, with even broader grasping at concepts, involving marriage and how consoles are like arranged marriages and PCs are like marriages based on mutual respect. But then it's like, that analogy is actually good.