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Rise of the Tomb Raider timed Xbox exclusive for Holiday 2015 (No PS/PC, SE publish)

M

maomao

Banned
benny_a said:
Yeah, the forum that is famous for "THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE" never criticized Sony.

You guys just don't get it. Shitty practices get called out. It's always been this way on GAF.
Microsoft is currently the king of the hill of shit mountain so they get called out the most.
Click to expand...

While this has some truth, MS is still the most hated among the big 3 among GAF being still the newest kid on the block even after all these years.

"THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE" means that Sony has only lost dominance, but the vibe on the forum is that they want MS to exit gaming for good and MS has bought nothing good to gaming. I mean, go check out those "who you want to leave gaming business among the big 3" threads, it's always MS that gets the most votes every year.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
maomao said:
While this has some truth, MS is still the most hated among the big 3 among GAF being still the newest kid on the block even after all these years.

"THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE" means that Sony has only lost dominance, but the vibe on the forum is that they want MS to exit gaming for good and MS has bought nothing good to gaming. I mean, go check out those "who you want to leave gaming business among the big 3" threads, it's always MS that gets the most votes every year.
Click to expand...
Between "THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE" and today is 5 years and 3 games made by Sony that have won Game of the Year on GAF.

That probably helped change perception.
 
M

maomao

Banned
benny_a said:
Between "THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE" and today is 5 years and 3 games made by Sony that have won Game of the Year on GAF.

That probably helped change perception.
Click to expand...

yeah, and XBOX came out over 10 years ago,
So do you remember the whole "THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE"? they lost exclusive of FF, and many other third party exclusives

so what it would take for Sony to dominate like they had ps1/ps2 again? Secure major third party exclusives? timed exclusives like GTA? Ironically, that's what MS just did
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
maomao said:
yeah, and XBOX came out over 10 years ago,
So do you remember the whole "THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE"? they lost exclusive of FF, and many other third party exclusives

so what it would take for Sony to dominate like they had ps1/ps2 again? Secure major third party exclusives? timed exclusives like GTA? Ironically, that's what MS just did
Click to expand...
Actually what they did was significantly ramp up their first party output.
 
G

Gator86

Member
maomao said:
While this has some truth, MS is still the most hated among the big 3 among GAF being still the newest kid on the block even after all these years.

"THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE" means that Sony has only lost dominance, but the vibe on the forum is that they want MS to exit gaming for good and MS has bought nothing good to gaming. I mean, go check out those "who you want to leave gaming business among the big 3" threads, it's always MS that gets the most votes every year.
Click to expand...

MS showed up to a major games conference and their biggest announcement was that they paid tens of millions of dollars to prevent people who enjoy video games from being able to play a video game. It would be fine if it was a one time thing as opposed to their primary method of creating value for their product. Time and time again, when given the option of whether to increase the attractiveness of their product or decrease the value of the competition's product, they have chosen the latter. Drek's post does a fantastic job of pointing this out with numerous examples.

As a person who doesn't own a MS console, what reason do I have to not dislike them? Their primary role in my hobby is to irritate me by denying content until I eventually buy their console.
 
M

maomao

Banned
benny_a said:
Actually what they did was significantly ramp up their first party output.
Click to expand...

no they did not, it's still great but it's more or less the same comparing to ps1/ps2 days. All they did is shift the Japanese focus toward more of the western style of games.

not to mention that there are no third party exclusives to outshine those first party games these days unlike the ps1/ps2 days
 
C

Chitown B

Member
benny_a said:
Yeah, the forum that is famous for "THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE" never criticized Sony.

You guys just don't get it. Shitty practices get called out. It's always been this way on GAF.
Microsoft is currently the king of the hill of shit mountain so they get called out the most.
Click to expand...

yeah MS had some shitty ideas 5 months before the console was even launched. Fans complained, and they bent over backwards to change nearly everything. They listen, they change, they add features that are requested. They let us beta test the new dashboard updates.

What more do you want from them? I don't get the constant negativity when all they've done since the reveal is appease to their consumers. Are they just perm shit listed this gen? Because that hardly seems fair.

So to all this I say: get over it.
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

Member
Gator86 said:
MS showed up to a major games conference and their biggest announcement was that they paid tens of millions of dollars to prevent people who enjoy video games from being able to play a video game. It would be fine if it was a one time thing as opposed to their primary method of creating value for their product. Time and time again, when given the option of whether to increase the attractiveness of their product or decrease the value of the competition's product, they have chosen the latter. Drek's post does a fantastic job of pointing this out with numerous examples.

As a person who doesn't own a MS console, what reason do I have to not dislike them? Their primary role in my hobby is to irritate me by denying content until I eventually buy their console.
Click to expand...

You mean they are not releasing any 1st party games? Nor bringing back games from Xbox 1 days? Or fully funding exclusives like Scalebound? Come on, at least look at it objectively when trying to make a point.

It's easier for MS to send monies to a successful franchise to secure timed exclusivity rather than invest in the unknown internal IP. What's wrong with that?

It's not full exclusive so I don't get all this hate.
 
M

maomao

Banned
Gator86 said:
MS showed up to a major games conference and their biggest announcement was that they paid tens of millions of dollars to prevent people who enjoy video games from being able to play a video game. It would be fine if it was a one time thing as opposed to their primary method of creating value for their product. Time and time again, when given the option of whether to increase the attractiveness of their product or decrease the value of the competition's product, they have chosen the latter. Drek's post does a fantastic job of pointing this out with numerous examples.

As a person who doesn't own a MS console, what reason do I have to not dislike them? Their primary role in my hobby is to irritate me by denying content until I eventually buy their console.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, this is equally bad to what anyone that did buying timed exclusives. but all console maker does this. You will be denied content in one way or another unless you own all the consoles.
 
C

Chitown B

Member
Gator86 said:
MS showed up to a major games conference and their biggest announcement was that they paid tens of millions of dollars to prevent people who enjoy video games from being able to play a video game. It would be fine if it was a one time thing as opposed to their primary method of creating value for their product. Time and time again, when given the option of whether to increase the attractiveness of their product or decrease the value of the competition's product, they have chosen the latter. Drek's post does a fantastic job of pointing this out with numerous examples.

As a person who doesn't own a MS console, what reason do I have to not dislike them? Their primary role in my hobby is to irritate me by denying content until I eventually buy their console.
Click to expand...

How is it not increasing the attractiveness of their product with this?
 
G

Gator86

Member
rokkerkory said:
You mean they are not releasing any 1st party games? Nor bringing back games from Xbox 1 days? Or fully funding exclusives like Scalebound? Come on, at least look at it objectively when trying to make a point.

It's easier for MS to send monies to a successful franchise to secure timed exclusivity rather than invest in the unknown internal IP. What's wrong with that?

It's not full exclusive so I don't get all this hate.
Click to expand...

I never said they had no first party games. I said I wish they had more of them and spent less of buying exclusivity. One or two examples matter less than the overall pattern. Of the big 3, MS has invested the least in their 1st party.
 
M

maomao

Banned
Chitown B said:
yeah MS had some shitty ideas 5 months before the console was even launched. Fans complained, and they bent over backwards to change nearly everything. They listen, they change, they add features that are requested. They let us beta test the new dashboard updates.

What more do you want from them? I don't get the constant negativity when all they've done since the reveal is appease to their consumers. Are they just perm shit listed this gen? Because that hardly seems fair.

So to all this I say: get over it.
Click to expand...

I think MS is perm shit listed comparing to Nintendo and Sony. It doesn't matter what they do, MS supporters needs to accept the fact that they are supporting an underdog. MS will never be as greatly cherished as Sony and Nintendo in the gaming community.
 
C

Chitown B

Member
maomao said:
I think MS is perm shit listed comparing to Nintendo and Sony. It doesn't matter what they do, MS supporters needs to accept the fact that they are supporting an underdog. MS will never be as greatly cherished as Sony and Nintendo in the gaming community.
Click to expand...

Coming from a Nintendo-only background from 1987-2000, I disagree. I only owned NES, SNES, N64 (and gameboy) during my original gaming span. Nintendo has done really bad things in the recent past that made me lose all faith in them. Not just one thing, but since the Wii dropped really. MS led the USA almost all of the last gen with the x360, so I don't know what you're talking about. In my opinion Sony did a much worse thing with the $599 console back in 2006, and it worked out fine for them in the end. People who don't even own an X1 need to get off MS's back - if you have one and have problems and issues with it, by all means. But bitching about a console you don't even own is just ridiculous.

Your statement "MS supporters needs to accept the fact that they are supporting an underdog" is a Sony-biased statement with wishes that MS fails.
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

Member
Gator86 said:
I never said they had no first party games. I said I wish they had more of them and spent less of buying exclusivity. One or two examples matter less than the overall pattern. Of the big 3, MS has invested the least in their 1st party.
Click to expand...

Time and time again, when given the option of whether to increase the attractiveness of their product or decrease the value of the competition's product, they have chosen the latter.
Click to expand...

Doesn't match what you originally said does it. You made it sound like they only choose the latter.

So they invested the least, so what? Surely worked out every time they did a 1st party IP last gen right? Everyone and their mom bought Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, etc? . They had more exclusives early in the life cycle last gen but did it work? No it didn't and that's why need to mix it up

Now they are going with more investment first party wise coupled with continued external deals, that's better than last gen.
 
P

Pakkidis

Member
There is a lot to hate Microsoft for..this is not one of them.

I really don't see the problem here, its the companies job to acquire as many exclusives, timed/exclusives as possible.

Of course it sucks for consumers but that is the nature of the console business. You want to play a specific game you got to get it on a specific console.

This is nothing new, this has been done many many times before. BUT TOMBRAIDER WAS MULTI PLATFORM THIS IS DIFFERENT... .really, why? Exclusive is exclusive regardless of its past status. What difference does it make what platforms it was previously released on, the current platform is all that matters.

Releasing a broken game is a scummy thing to do. Putting content behind a paywall that should be free is a scummy thing to do. Getting exclusives for your console is business.
 
I

Iced_Eagle

Member
Thread is way too effing big to search though, but I just found this tidbit from the 90's and thought it was pretty funny. It's the press release when Sony made the Tomb Raider franchise console exclusive to PlayStation (poor Sega Saturn). The irony to this announcement is pretty good. Sorry if it's already been posted and discussed.

Press Release - September 18th said:
FOSTER CITY, CALIF., USA - Sony Computer Entertainment America announced today that the Tomb Raider(TM) franchise, featuring leading character Lara Croft, will be exclusive to the PlayStation(TM) for game consoles.

Released in November 1996, the original Tomb Raider game from Eidos Interactive and Core Design, was one of the best-selling videogames of all time with more than 1.5 million units sold for the PlayStation game console worldwide. Marking its one-year anniversary with a highly-anticipated sequel, Tomb Raider 2 is scheduled for release in November 1997.

"Core Design and EIDOS have created the most successful original product in years that became a number one hit on PlayStation in the U.S. and Europe last year," said Phil Harrison, vice president, third party relations, Sony Computer Entertainment America. "The PlayStation console is the undisputed world-leader in videogaming and it is appropriate that two leaders in their field should partner up in this way for Tomb Raider."

"Given the worldwide domination of the PlayStation system, it's a natural for Eidos to partner with Sony Computer Entertainment America and Sony Computer Entertainment Europe," said Mike McGarvey, chief operating officer, Eidos Interactive. "We want our best-selling franchise to reach the greatest number of consumers and the PlayStation and its powerful CD-ROM software format satisfies this demand. The fact that the PlayStation will be the only game console on which you can enjoy the Tomb Raider franchise is a great statement for the platform."

About Eidos Interactive
Eidos Interactive develops and publishes interactive entertainment products for the PC, Sony PlayStation, Sega Saturn, Macintosh and Internet. Eidos Interactive is part of Eidos plc (Nasdaq:EIDSY), which includes Eidos Technologies, a software-based video compression and decompression company, Glassworks, a state-of-the-art post-production facility specializing in digital effects and video editing for the television and advertising industries, and an independent record label called Naked Records.

About Sony Computer Entertainment America
Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. distributes and markets the PlayStation game console for North America, develops and publishes software for the PlayStation game console, and manages the U.S. third party licensing program. Based in Foster City, Calif., Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Visit us on the Web at http://www.playstation.com .
Click to expand...

Source: http://www.tombnews.com/news/1997/09/1801/

I wonder who brokered the deal on MS' side? It would be great if Phil Harrison did it, because then he would have made Tomb Raider exclusive to both PlayStation and Xbox throughout his career.
 
D

Dizzy

Banned
maomao said:
I think MS is perm shit listed comparing to Nintendo and Sony. It doesn't matter what they do, MS supporters needs to accept the fact that they are supporting an underdog. MS will never be as greatly cherished as Sony and Nintendo in the gaming community.
Click to expand...
Dude I was here from '06.

GAF 2006 - 2008 was the opposite of what it is now. Sony couldn't catch a break and RROD aside, people were very pro 360.


It comes in cycles. Maybe ms will be the fan favourite again one day and maybe sony will be hated. Fanboys need to learn though that this doesnt just happen for the sake of it. These good reason why people turned on microsoft last year. And as ms have reversed those unpopular decisions, the hate seems to have reduced a bit since last year.

People arent going to sit and kiss ass for no reason. If bullshit happens we have a right to call these people and companies out on it.
 
L

licktheenvelope

Member
maomao said:
I think MS is perm shit listed comparing to Nintendo and Sony. It doesn't matter what they do, MS supporters needs to accept the fact that they are supporting an underdog. MS will never be as greatly cherished as Sony and Nintendo in the gaming community.
Click to expand...

?????? I was a massive MS fan through their last 2 consoles until they kept showing a lack of support and an unwillingness to continue to push new creative ideas.
 
L

licktheenvelope

Member
rokkerkory said:
You mean they are not releasing any 1st party games? Nor bringing back games from Xbox 1 days? Or fully funding exclusives like Scalebound? Come on, at least look at it objectively when trying to make a point.

It's easier for MS to send monies to a successful franchise to secure timed exclusivity rather than invest in the unknown internal IP. What's wrong with that?

It's not full exclusive so I don't get all this hate.
Click to expand...

Again, they aren't paying for people to play a game... they are paying for others to not play a game.
 
F

FacelessSamurai

..but cry so much I wish I had some
licktheenvelope said:
Again, they aren't paying for people to play a game... they are paying for others to not play a game.
Click to expand...

They are paying for an exclusive deal that SE most likely shopped around as they wanted money. I would blame SE much more than I would blame MS on this. I doubt they were sitting around a table and one day decided to go talk to SE to buy Tomb Raider.
 
M

mreddie

Member
Ok, I can deal with Rise not being on PS for 2-3 months, at least it's coming unlike the Oddworld XBOX deal where we had to wait 7 years to come on other systems.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
benny_a said:
Yeah, the forum that is famous for "THE AGE OF SONY IS DONE" never criticized Sony.

You guys just don't get it. Shitty practices get called out. It's always been this way on GAF.
Microsoft is currently the king of the hill of shit mountain so they get called out the most.
Click to expand...

i love that THIS is now the way we prove we're not Sony fanboys. By my hyperbole post lol

It shouldn't even need to be said at this point. The problem is that actual fanboys see the entire world through a prism of persistent fanboy war, and they do not understand motivations which are not dominated primarily by loyalty to a company and their specific consoles. They literally cannot see the world any other way. So, when they see someone criticizing Microsoft and they're a Microsoft fanboy, the only logical explanation in their mind is that this person must be some pro-Sony crusader. Back when Sony did their thing and I was criticizing them around the clock as were many other GAFers, the same thing occurred. Sony fanboys tried to brutalize people with accusations of being fanboys for the "other team", because they could not fathom a reality in which people just play games and not companies.

It's hilarious though. Next gen a Nintendo console might be my favorite, and I'll be dissing the shit out of Sony and Microsoft's mistakes. And then I'm fairly sure me and many others will be called Nintendo fanboys (already been called that, and a Sony fanboy, and a Microsoft fanboy - so I'm doing something right). It's just the best.
 
B

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Dizzy said:
GAF 2006 - 2008 was the opposite of what it is now. Sony couldn't catch a break and RROD aside, people were very pro 360.

People arent going to sit and kiss ass for no reason. If bullshit happens we have a right to call these people and companies out on it.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Anyone who`s been here through at least one previous console cycle would know this. The voices are louder now thanks to social media, but there`s no excuse for not being aware of context. If you really want a window into how things can change, track down goodcow`s thread archives from early 2000`s-era GAF with PS2 and Dreamcast battling it out. Those were the days, indeed.

"The age of <fill-in-the-blank> is done." Adjust according to your preferences and we'll see you in 6 years.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Amir0x said:
i love that THIS is now the way we prove we're not Sony fanboys. By my hyperbole post lol
Click to expand...
It's just a short hand for the period before Sony got their shit together.
Shit together is a relative term, choices made in 2005 haunts that system today.
Just like choices made by Microsoft is going to haunt that system in 3 years, even if the PR lines change.

But yeah you hit it right on the head with the lens that everything is viewed through.

While in reality the masses go with what is most agreeable over what is least agreeable and things change over time depending on pressure exerted by the customer base.
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
evildede said:
They are paying for an exclusive deal that SE most likely shopped around as they wanted money. I would blame SE much more than I would blame MS on this. I doubt they were sitting around a table and one day decided to go talk to SE to buy Tomb Raider.
Click to expand...

Chances are they offered Sony the chance to do it as well, or at least to outbid MS.
 
L

licktheenvelope

Member
evildede said:
They are paying for an exclusive deal that SE most likely shopped around as they wanted money. I would blame SE much more than I would blame MS on this. I doubt they were sitting around a table and one day decided to go talk to SE to buy Tomb Raider.
Click to expand...

That's pretty arbitrary unless you have proof.

I think it's much more likely that Microsoft was worried about going up against Uncharted for next winter with no exclusive action game than SE wanting to piss off the majority of their fanbase...
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
evildede said:
They are paying for an exclusive deal that SE most likely shopped around as they wanted money. I would blame SE much more than I would blame MS on this. I doubt they were sitting around a table and one day decided to go talk to SE to buy Tomb Raider.
Click to expand...

No, they didn't. SE didn't need money.

The spinning people do to defend MS, SMH.
 
Megatron

Megatron

Member
RE_Player said:
While PlayStation owners should feel annoyed I feel like the PC players should feel justified in their hate. Microsoft is treating the PC like an abused housewife. Every once and awhile mentioning how important the PC is to them and than actively paying publishers to deny the release of a PC version.
Click to expand...
They want PC gamers to buy XBox ones also. They aren't mutually exclusive.
 
R

RexNovis

Banned
I see that the Microsoft Persecution Complex Club (MPCC) has appeared. I have slowly learned that attempting to use logic or reason with members of this particular group is an exercise in futility and frustration. It goes absolutely nowhere. Nothing you can say will ever convince them that they are wrong or that the criticisms and outrage is not "teh Sony ponies." All that ends up happening is that the thread is derailed by reasonable people attempting educate them and just repeating themselves as naseum to no effect whatsoever. I swore I wouldn't use it in order to promote the idea of actual discourse but I've finally broken down...

Edit: would someone mind explaining how to add people to ignore list on mobile?
 
F

FracturedZero

Neo Member
I have both consoles so it doesn't affect me the way it does others. Knowing it is a timed exclusive means I will just wait for the PS4 version. I simply thought the PS3 and PS4 versions played and looked better then their Xbox counterparts. That's the only thing that really affects my decision. Otherwise, I loved the first Tomb Raider and look forward to the new one.
 
S

Skele7on

Banned
Before I begin my opinion.

This is currently my household:

U75ZSff.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't know how or why. But they haven't managed to kill each other yet, but I am ready at anytime to get in between them an break them up if it does kick off.

I have grown up and have been lucky enough to have a lot of consoles in my childhood, I have owned pretty much every single console under the sun since the atari 2600. Although I did miss out on the nes and snes as my parents were big into Sega.

I remember first playing games such as Ninja Golf, I was probably about 4 at the time so didn't really get it, but the bright lights and colours dazzled me, and then one day out of no where I had a Sega Megadrive 16bt arrive with Sonic, italia 90, super bikes, and some weird bejewelled/tetris game I cannot remember. from there I would love christmas and birthdays as I would get new games such as sonic 2 Jurassic park, Jurassic park lost world, sonic and knuckles, sonic 3, FIFA 95 ( best fifa ever IMO).

Then one day my dad came home was really excited and said LOOK I have something awesome, and it was a playstation I was like what? A playstation what's that, So I nervously opened the box and played I think it was croc or something, anyway I went through the playstation age and forgot quite a bit about my megadrive as I was just shocked w ith the controller, the graphics and just how ridiculously dated it made the sega megadrive look. I never owned a Saturn and I really wished I did.

Anyways after that I owned the following:

Gameboy
Gameboy colour
Game gear
N64
dreamcast
ps2
xbox
ps3
xbox 360
Wii
Gameboy advanced
PSP
nintendo DS
Nintendo 3DS
Vita
Xbox one
WiiU
PS4
6 different gaming PC's

I get that people have a right to be mad that games aren't coming to the other consoles,
As to be honest it does suck, but that's where I find the best part of gaming, I love the fact that each console in it's own special way brings something unique to the table.

I have always grown up with what I would like to call "gaming diversity" I was never made to be in a single camp and be a hardcore fan boy, a lot of the consoles I did get as presents from my parents, but as soon as I turned 14 I started doing a paper route so I could then buy my own, I actually did double routes earning £40 a week so I could save up for the orginal xbox when it came out and did the same for the ps2, since I now work I do spend a lot of my disposable income on consoles and other bits and pieces because I absolutely love gaming.

Anyway my point is, yes it does suck to see that one console is getting a game that the others aren't but honestly now, if every console was the same and did exactly the same and played the same games and did every single thing from os to power usage the same, where would the fun be in gaming? where would the innovation come from?

It would pretty much kill gaming off, Last gen the ps3 even though it was more powerful made some pretty horrible decisions and made it very hard for devs to full make the best out of the system. Because that was "Arrogant Sony" remember them guys after the ps2 they were pretty bad.

Now on the flip side, the xbox 360 to many was the winner of the last gen even if the ps3 did have a strong finish it didn't win the generation for quite a number of reasons that have been argued to death so forgive me for skipping. We are now seeing a Microsoft that were arrogant tried to radically change the way we were supposed to be, but a lot of those changes that either scared or angered the gamers are now gone, we are seeing a real focus on games for the console which I personally find pretty darn exciting.

I am not a PR agent, I am a gamer, who loves his games.

Peace.
 
V

Vlade

Member
maomao said:
I think MS is perm shit listed comparing to Nintendo and Sony. It doesn't matter what they do, MS supporters needs to accept the fact that they are supporting an underdog. MS will never be as greatly cherished as Sony and Nintendo in the gaming community.
Click to expand...

So it has not crossed your mind that the feeling people have toward Nintendo, MS, and Sony have in large part been legitimately earned. That in some way Nintendo has had shit for being detached, Sony for being arrogant in business, and MS for being anticonsumer in a way we weren't ready for yet? That the good graces Sony enjoys now were partly earned by the actions of Sony? What is it that is endearing about Microsoft right now?

Like was said, check back in 5 or 6 years. It's somewhat likely that MS will have learned something after overestimating themselves on their third console (who does that, right?) and have something good. Although, I am having trouble imagining the future of consoles these days, which is kind of exciting.
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
Skele7on said:
I get that people have a right to be mad that games aren't coming to the other consoles,
As to be honest it does suck, but that's where I find the best part of gaming, I love the fact that each console in it's own special way brings something unique to the table.
Click to expand...

If by unique you mean fucking other platforms, then yes MS did bring something unique to the table.
/s
How hard is it to understand? MS payed money to delay other platform versions, so just you can get the feel of "unique", while in reality they didn't bring anything unique here.

Skele7on said:
Anyway my point is, yes it does suck to see that one console is getting a game that the others aren't but honestly now, if every console was the same and did exactly the same and played the same games and did every single thing from os to power usage the same, where would the fun be in gaming? where would the innovation come from?
Click to expand...

One hell of a strawman here! No one is saying all platforms must all be/do/play/have the same things. We just don't support moneyhats, and there's many ways to differentiate one product for the the other products without moneyhats: Funding game, investing in first party studios, having unique add-ons...
 
E

EmptySpace

Banned
bishoptl said:
Thank you. Anyone who`s been here through at least one previous console cycle would know this. The voices are louder now thanks to social media, but there`s no excuse for not being aware of context. If you really want a window into how things can change, track down goodcow`s thread archives from early 2000`s-era GAF with PS2 and Dreamcast battling it out. Those were the days, indeed.

"The age of <fill-in-the-blank> is done." Adjust according to your preferences and we'll see you in 6 years.
Click to expand...

hey now, gaf was in a "the age of ouya is done" from 2012 to 2012.
 
xrnzaaas

xrnzaaas

Member
Grisby said:
Crazy and unexpected. An interesting move to go against UC4 but a bad deal for PS4/PC crowd.

Guy threw out the bigger tombs line today but we'll see I suppose.
Click to expand...

Well, let's hope so. I also wouldn't want to see the tombs being degraded to side quests again... they need to be in the center of attention. :)
 
B

Bigmac1910

Member
foxdvd said:
This is crap...

I have both systems, just so I can play exclusives, but there is no way I am buying this.

You have exclusives that are made in house.

You have exclusives, like the recent Sunset Overdrive, where the developer gets to keep control of their product, so staying on one system makes sense.

You have exclusives, like Bayonetta 2, where one of the big companies helps fund the game which would have never been made otherwise.

With all of these I have no problem buying the game and is the reason I own all the major systems.

Then you have crap like this where one company pays to keep the game off other systems. This is complete anti-consumer shit. This is not helping the gamer. This is not creating exciting content for your fans. This is not making me want to support your company by hiring the most talented artist in the industry and giving them a chance to wow me. This is 100% complete mafia bullshit of taking out all competition and leaving me one single choice.

fuck you I am not supporting this...
Click to expand...

Pure poetry, and I agree with you a 1000%. Maybe after this people will understand why most gamers are upset.
 
G

Goodacre0081

Member
not sure if this was posted elsewhere. snipped from the CVG interview with SCEE Jim Ryan

CVG: It was quite impressive to hear the number of PS4 exclusives, whether that's timed or not, the majority of which were smaller indie titles. Obviously one of the big stories this week was the announcement from your competitor regarding Rise Of The Tomb Raider. What's Sony's stance on securing triple-A exclusives going forward?

JR: Well, you know, we've got a very large and very powerful network of studios on our own, all of whom are working on games that will be fully exclusive to PlayStation, and we feel that this on top of partnering with third parties where it makes sense. I think the partnership we have with Activision on Destiny is a good example of where it makes really good sense for them, it makes good sense for us and it benefits our consumers - when you complement those two things we think that gives us a pretty complete position in the market.

So do we feel the need to go out and buy outright exclusivity? Probably not. You saw last night [at Sony's press conference] that before the media briefing we showed updated videos of games that we had revealed at E3. That's because we wanted to keep the show itself full of new, fresh things. We think that gave us a good, strong, convincing portfolio of exclusive stuff and we're happy with that.
Click to expand...

sounds like the idea of buying exclusives isn't totally off the table. it's a slippery slope though, if proven successful it will pave the way for more deals like these in the future. from both companies.

I have the same fear with EAccess and the precedent it could set for other publishers.
 
T

TetraGenesis

Member
Drek said:
Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".
Click to expand...

You deserve a tag for this. That was a really informative post. The bolded part really got me.
 
A

Anung

Un Rama
Drek said:
Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".
Click to expand...

Incredible post.

A lot of people seem to be either willingly ignorant or misinformed. Sony got slaughtered last generation and it took them a whole gen to undo that. Expensive launch (two jobs etc) inferior ports if your lucky or downright unplayable shit (Bayo and Skyrim come to mind) as well as other things. This narrative lasted almost an entire gen until devs started understanding the CELL processor stuff and even then it was at the arse end of a generation. So it always annoys me when peoples arguments are so weak they need to accuse this place of being some Sony paradise. Sony were rightfully getting called out back then. And Microsoft are rightfully getting it now.

Now apparently Microsoft are trying to change things for the better. But then stuff like this happens and it dilutes that message. It looks even worse when Sony are being completely forthright about their exclusives and line up. There is no confusion to be had. And by comparison it makes MS look like they are out to mislead people. You think they'd learn their lessons about being concise after the last few shitstorms. Then again confusion will net them more sales from people not in the know.

At the end of the day these companies should be held accountable. People are shitting on Nintendo, and Microsoft and if Sony start pulling anti-consumer BS then they'll be back in the line of fire.
 
A

abadguy

Banned
All these tears over a timed exclusive. A timed exclusive of a game that was generally shit on here, now it's such hot news.

TetraGenesis said:
You deserve a tag for this. That was a really informative post. The bolded part really got me.
Click to expand...

The part that got me was how he seemed to leave out the billion said to be invested into gaming by MS. Never mind the other shit he either glosses over or outright ignores so he can spew bile against a company and piece of plastic he hates. Even so that people keep quoting it as if he is saying anything remotely provocative. "informative"? Right.... If he really wants to be "informative" why not get into exactly "why" MS closed the studios they did? Obviously they didn't do so for shits and giggles. So what were their reasons? They do it just to be evil? Sony closed a bunch of studios lately as i recall. Talking about the lack of First party studios ( a thing which became VERY IMPORTANT when Sony started to lose there ever important stable of third part exclusives last gen) yet ignoring that they have opened new studios as well aside from Black Tusk and as been shown with MS created studios in the few years. ( LXP, Dakota and Lift) Brings up TF when it's been shown the game might not have even been finished had they not stepped in.

It just seems like the garden variety fanboyish posts of painting the corporation you hate as the devil while propping up the corporation you like as some angelic charity organization. Truth is they are both corporations and have both done and will do shit that some won't like to stay number one. Sony is a god guy? I remember hearing of Sony threatening certain retailers with not supplying PS2's if they stocked Dreamcast games/systems. (allegedly) Nintendo has done some shit in the past too, yet the way most spin it, Sony is your friend and Nintendo is a mom and pop run business. Hey Drek MS and Sony and Nintendo all got into the business for the same damned reason TO MAKE MONEY. Doesn't make them good or evil. Makes them businesses.
 
B

blast processed

Member
Drek said:
Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".
Click to expand...

This is probably one of the best posts I have ever seen on any forum. Well Done, Sir!

Dramatic-Intense-Clapping-Reaction-Gif.gif
 
C

Calvero

Banned
This is crap...

I have both systems, just so I can play exclusives, but there is no way I am buying this.

You have exclusives that are made in house.

You have exclusives, like the recent Sunset Overdrive, where the developer gets to keep control of their product, so staying on one system makes sense.

You have exclusives, like Bayonetta 2, where one of the big companies helps fund the game which would have never been made otherwise.

With all of these I have no problem buying the game and is the reason I own all the major systems.

Then you have crap like this where one company pays to keep the game off other systems. This is complete anti-consumer shit. This is not helping the gamer. This is not creating exciting content for your fans. This is not making me want to support your company by hiring the most talented artist in the industry and giving them a chance to wow me. This is 100% complete mafia bullshit of taking out all competition and leaving me one single choice.

fuck you I am not supporting this...
 
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