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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT2| Nintendo All-Stars Battle Quarter Pounder

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P

Poltergust

Member
Guys, if you have golden hammers in the third Challenge panel, do not use them on the "do this with every character" challenges. Yes, they may be time-consuming and possibly annoying, but at least you have a set way of completing those challenges.

What you should do instead is to use the hammers on the collecting challenges, particularly the one for collecting every Smash Run power and collecting all pieces of equipment, Mii outfits, and custom moves.

Because of the randomness factor, those without a doubt will be take much, much longer to do than completing a mode with every character several times over.

As for the third hammer, choose whichever one you wish. I think a good choice would be the "KO opponents by knocking them into each other 20 times in Streetsmash" if you don't get Streetpasses often. Or perhaps getting over 600 trophies (although that's not nearly as hard to legitimately do as the other collecting challenges).

EDIT: Never mind the Streetpass one since it can be done in Practice mode. I guess you can also use the third hammer for one of the "do this with every character" challenges since the worst ones are now out of the way.
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
Also, I'm TERRIBLE at this game, but that's no surprise. I've never been good at a competitive game in my life. It's still fun, though.

Edit: Looks like I'm 4-6 with Mega Man, 0-6 with everybody else online. I think all 4 of my wins came against the same person.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
hqdefault.jpg


It’s the writeup nobody asked for, my thoughts on Ness. I do think that the potential for Ness has been underestimated by some knee jerk Ness players on here early on, so I thought I’d offer a more positive, correct view on the differences between Smash4 Ness and his Brawl counterpart. For any Ness mains or potential Ness players, I hope this helps.

- Gameplay Changes

There have been some pretty significant changes to the fighting system for Smash 4, and as fars as I can tell, Ness has pretty much benefited from nearly every change. Most of the system problems that plagued Ness in Brawl have been cured with the new changes.

Grabbing – One of Ness main’s worst nightmares. Ness had a weird frame issue in Brawl where if he was grabbed and pummeled without being thrown, he would be released close enough to the opponent for them to get an attack move off, often a smash attack for certain characters. This looks to have been corrected. The 2nd, and far worse, was the Marth infinite grab. Marth, with his stupid ridiculous grab range, was able to infinitely re-grab Ness, pummeling him until the percentage got high enough to hit a smash attack out of grab. It was a guaranteed 0 to death move. Now after grab releasing, an opponent cannot re-grab for about a second or two. This effectively eliminates the grab release against Ness.

The Ledge Game – The new mechanics ( in addition to the buff to pkthunder discussed later) have greatly improved Ness’ ability to recover. PK2 was easy to predict with the startup, and Ness was often gimped off the stage by simply timing correctly when to ledge grab and prevent Ness from grabbing. That has been eliminated, and greatly improves Ness’ ability to recover.


- Chararacter Changes

Ness has received both cosmetic and gameplay changes to his movesets. Some buffs, and some nerfs, and some moves that work quite differently. I will discuss the changes here and reach a verdict if it was overall an improvement, or a nerf. I will only list the moves that have important enough changes.

Attacks

F-Smash: a slight buff. It looks to be more powerful, and seems to come out slightly quicker. It is still very slow and situational though. Use sparingly.
Verdict – Slight Buff

D -Smash and U-Smash: I admittedly have not messed with these enough to give a full verdict. The yo-yos no longer hang out while they charge, which is unfortunate. Up Smash looks to have better KO potential. Range seems the same. Need more time.
Verdict – Neutral

Back Air: Not as good as it’s Brawl counterpart. I don’t know if it’s the 3ds controls, but I seem to have a lot more difficulty busting it out low to the ground, which makes it much harder to be a harassing tool. Might have slightly more range now. It doesn’t seem as powerful as before. Still, it is a very useful kill move and can be used effectively as a follow up to other attacks. Very good still to use off the ledge. Watch out for the landing lag though. That also seems to have gotten worse.
Verdict – Slight Nerf

Forward Air : I am loving this move. Ness’s fair has always been great, but this time it has some incredibly interesting properties that allow you to chain it together. First off, yeah it seems smaller than Brawl’s fair, but I haven’t actually noticed much of a difference with the hitbox. It doesn’t do as much damage as the old fair, but it’s made up for by the new properties. Essentially, when you hit someone who is in the air with this move, the fair acts as sort of a magnet that pulls the character to whatever direction you are going, with a hit back at the end. For example, if I hit the fair while falling down, the opponent will fall down with me. There is a slight knockback afterwards too where the opponent is stunned. At certain percentages, this allows you to chain up to 4 fairs or so depending on the setup. I’ve been in situations where I have literally moved a character from one side of the stage to the other with fair chains. In
addition, it seems to kill at earlier percentages too, so if you can hit an opponent off stage with a high enough percentage, it could kill them. Moreso than ever, this is one of Ness’s most important moves. You have to learn how to bust this move out in a variety of ways if you are going to have any success.
Verdict – Big Buff

Down Air: Now for the sad news. Man o man has this move been nerfed. The landing lag on this is atrocious. You can no longer short hop dair with any sort of confidence, which removes it as a nice changeup to approaching vs fair. You will be open to attack every time. The meteor effect (spike) has been significantly reduced. It still has it’s merits in very situational spots, but overall its effectiveness has been severly reduced.
Verdict: Big Nerf

Specials

PK Thunder and PK2 (Up B): Oh man, I am so excited about this move now. I used PK Thunder a harass tool to great effect in Brawl, and everything about it is safer, and better this time around. First off is regular PK Thunder. The ball is slightly bigger, making it easier to hit, and they fixed the knockback seemingly at early percentages so that the enemy isn’t knocked back so close to you that they can follow up with a move while you are still in pkthunder frames. The real big change though, is thanks to Smash4’s incredibly bad landing lag frames when someone airdodges to the ground. It lasts forever. In Brawl, a person would simply air dodge to the ground and hit the shield. Now though, if you time it right, you can hit the opponent every damn if they try this. Opponents will now have to out think where you are going with the pk thunder to avoid it, or hit some sort of aerial move to cancel it out, which is much harder than simply dodging. Faster
characters are still a problem and can quickly recover and hit you, so be careful.

PK2 has received some buffs as well. One of the big issues with Ness’ recovery in the past was people jumping and hanging around the top of Ness, waiting for PK Thunder so that they could get hit by it and cancel Ness’ recovery. Now though, there are a few invincibility frames on startup, which prevents this from happening. The opponent can still cancel it out by going behind Ness and hitting the thunder later in the cycle, but it’s much harder to do. Also, it seems like PK2 is a little bit stronger towards the tail end of the attack. In Brawl it got significantly weaker towards the end. Still, the sweet spot is hitting it close. The incredibly important buff, however, is due to the landing lag most characters have now with air dodge and other moves. It is much easier to make an opponent air dodge pkthunder while they are falling, and immediately follow up with a pk2 for the kill. Pk2, in my opinion, has now become a more common tool to use in a
wider variety of situations.
Verdict: Big Buff

PK Flash (neutral B): Not much of a change, but I did want to note that it seems easier to hit people recovering to the edge, at least it feels that way. I will have to use it more to see how accurate this is.
Verdict: neutral

PKFire: I haven’t notice much of a change. Di’ing out of it seems about the same. Might have a few extra frames of animation, but it is minimal if you know how to use it right, and that’s the key. Most Ness players who talk negatively about pkfire have no idea how to use pkfire. It’s a setup move, and you have to know when to use it to setup.
Verdict: neutral

Magnet: Pretty much the same. Seems to come out quicker than before. It is visibly bigger, but I don’t know if the range has increased or not. It received both a nerf and a buff in the air though. It no longer has the constant stopping effect as before when used in the air. This was good for tricking opponents into miscalculating your falling speed. Instead though, a cool new feature is if you jump and immedietly magnet afterwards, you do a really cool float effect that lasts for a second or so. I can see this as having potential, so for now I am going to say this breaks even.
Verdict: neutral


Conclusion:

There are other minor things, but I felt those were some of the more important points. Back Throw is still a beast, and Ness has other qualities that all round out to make him a versatile character. Although early in the game, I have yet to find a character that I cannot build a strategy around with Ness. He is also a good counter to some often used characters at the moment, such as Little Mac. I will be doing a follow up later with my strategies for all you Ness mains. Hope this helps any current or potential Ness players out there.
 
T

TheSlySoul

Member
Gave 9.0 a shot, ended with 7.5 as Bowser. Kirby crew made me go down to 8.0. Almost had Core at that level, but he got the last hit. Guess I am going to have to use customs to get by...
 
M

MisterAnderson

Member
Sorry if this has been asked a bunch, but this question goes out to anyone who loved Melee and wasn't a fan of Brawl who picked up the 3DS version:

If the 3DS version is any indication of how it will play on Wii U, how does this iteration stack up against Melee/Brawl?
 
E

emb

Member
MisterAnderson said:
Sorry if this has been asked a bunch, but this question goes out to anyone who loved Melee and wasn't a fan of Brawl who picked up the 3DS version:

If the 3DS version is any indication of how it will play on Wii U, how does this iteration stack up against Melee/Brawl?
Click to expand...
Better than Brawl, but still closer to Brawl than to Melee.
 
beanman25

beanman25

Member
Looking to add some folks to play 1v1s sometime!

0490-7006-6065 is my FC. Let me know if you've added me, and I'll add you back.

I usually rock: DHD, Marth, Ness, ROB, or Falcon.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Spinosaurus said:
I think it's the opposite in this game. I noticed a half charged waft dealt more damage in this game but not as much knockback as a full one. Need to check it out on training.

Also my favorite thing about the new Wario: wheelie kills. Sooo satisfying to land.
Click to expand...

Oops, yeah I meant to say that the half-charged waft was stronger than the full charged waft in Brawl, but that seems to be reversed in this game (and for good reason).

Doesn't the wheelie drop kill super early? Wario is full of surprises it seems.
 
S

SenorArdilla

Member
I tried hosting a local game and the game was like no. Laggy as hell. Oddly enough when I joined a game as a guest, the game was fine.

Any suggestions?
 
T

TheSlySoul

Member
Neiteio said:
I like this way better than both Brawl and Melee. WiiU version will no doubt be the best Smash to date.
Click to expand...
I will have to agree. Taking the nostalgia goggles off, Melee is overrated. Still though, the Wii U version better have "Break the Targets" or I will be very sad.
 
I

Insaniac

Member
johnsavage said:
Is it just me or is Mario not that bad? I've definitely played him the most because of the demo, but I was surprised to win one of my For Glory matches (3 W 12 L) using Mario. Do I just suck at using everyone else?
Click to expand...

I've always thought mario was pretty good. My brother mains him and he's really good with him, it's almost frustrating.
 
E

emb

Member
TheSlySoul said:
Still though, the Wii U version better have "Break the Targets" or I will be very sad.
Click to expand...
This game does feel a little empty in terms of single player modes. You have several, but somehow it doesn't feel as well rounded and complete as the previous ones; I guess because Smash Run doesn't feel like a very successful single player mode to me. So that leaves no analogous feature to replace Adventure mode from Melee or SSE in Brawl. And nothing in place of Event mode either.

But that's one issue that we can expect not to carry over to the Wii U version.
 
T

TheSlySoul

Member
I lucked out somehow on Target Smash and already cleared the hardest one by the time I got to panel 3. Home-Run Contest took me a bit because Side Smashes are really finicky in this game. Almost done with Classic Mode and planning to just enjoy the All-Stars mode. I figure maybe I will unlock super duper equipment for the 9.0 challenge. I figured Speed and Defense should be the priority for Bowser/Ganondorf.
 
M

McNum

Member
Shamrock7r said:
It’s the writeup nobody asked for, my thoughts on Ness.
Click to expand...
I wasn't saying it out loud, no, but thoughts on Ness are plenty appreciated from my point of view. Especially well reasoned ones like these. Was thinking of giving him a go, I was okay with Lucas in Brawl, so maybe I can pick up Ness pretty fast.

The forward air is that good? That's neat. I do dread recovering with Ness on the Circle Pad. As if PK Thunder wasn't hard enough to drive on a GameCube controller in Brawl and Melee...
 
S

Spinosaurus

Member
PK Gaming said:
Doesn't the wheelie drop kill super early? Wario is full of surprises it seems.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Seems like a good edge guard as well if you time it properly. I managed to kill some people who were trying to recover with it. It's a really safe option since the bike protects Wario as well

Only problem is that it gets predictable if done too often and it is very hard to time right, but it's a really good move in my experience. I'm really enjoying this character here, maybe not as much as Brawl Wario but still loving him.
 
A

autobzooty

Member
Shamrock7r said:
hqdefault.jpg


It’s the writeup nobody asked for, my thoughts on Ness. I do think that the potential for Ness has been underestimated by some knee jerk Ness players on here early on, so I thought I’d offer a more positive, correct view on the differences between Smash4 Ness and his Brawl counterpart. For any Ness mains or potential Ness players, I hope this helps.

- Gameplay Changes

There have been some pretty significant changes to the fighting system for Smash 4, and as fars as I can tell, Ness has pretty much benefited from nearly every change. Most of the system problems that plagued Ness in Brawl have been cured with the new changes.

Grabbing – One of Ness main’s worst nightmares. Ness had a weird frame issue in Brawl where if he was grabbed and pummeled without being thrown, he would be released close enough to the opponent for them to get an attack move off, often a smash attack for certain characters. This looks to have been corrected. The 2nd, and far worse, was the Marth infinite grab. Marth, with his stupid ridiculous grab range, was able to infinitely re-grab Ness, pummeling him until the percentage got high enough to hit a smash attack out of grab. It was a guaranteed 0 to death move. Now after grab releasing, an opponent cannot re-grab for about a second or two. This effectively eliminates the grab release against Ness.

The Ledge Game – The new mechanics ( in addition to the buff to pkthunder discussed later) have greatly improved Ness’ ability to recover. PK2 was easy to predict with the startup, and Ness was often gimped off the stage by simply timing correctly when to ledge grab and prevent Ness from grabbing. That has been eliminated, and greatly improves Ness’ ability to recover.


- Chararacter Changes

Ness has received both cosmetic and gameplay changes to his movesets. Some buffs, and some nerfs, and some moves that work quite differently. I will discuss the changes here and reach a verdict if it was overall an improvement, or a nerf. I will only list the moves that have important enough changes.

Attacks

F-Smash: a slight buff. It looks to be more powerful, and seems to come out slightly quicker. It is still very slow and situational though. Use sparingly.
Verdict – Slight Buff

D -Smash and U-Smash: I admittedly have not messed with these enough to give a full verdict. The yo-yos no longer hang out while they charge, which is unfortunate. Up Smash looks to have better KO potential. Range seems the same. Need more time.
Verdict – Neutral

Back Air: Not as good as it’s Brawl counterpart. I don’t know if it’s the 3ds controls, but I seem to have a lot more difficulty busting it out low to the ground, which makes it much harder to be a harassing tool. Might have slightly more range now. It doesn’t seem as powerful as before. Still, it is a very useful kill move and can be used effectively as a follow up to other attacks. Very good still to use off the ledge. Watch out for the landing lag though. That also seems to have gotten worse.
Verdict – Slight Nerf

Forward Air : I am loving this move. Ness’s fair has always been great, but this time it has some incredibly interesting properties that allow you to chain it together. First off, yeah it seems smaller than Brawl’s fair, but I haven’t actually noticed much of a difference with the hitbox. It doesn’t do as much damage as the old fair, but it’s made up for by the new properties. Essentially, when you hit someone who is in the air with this move, the fair acts as sort of a magnet that pulls the character to whatever direction you are going, with a hit back at the end. For example, if I hit the fair while falling down, the opponent will fall down with me. There is a slight knockback afterwards too where the opponent is stunned. At certain percentages, this allows you to chain up to 4 fairs or so depending on the setup. I’ve been in situations where I have literally moved a character from one side of the stage to the other with fair chains. In
addition, it seems to kill at earlier percentages too, so if you can hit an opponent off stage with a high enough percentage, it could kill them. Moreso than ever, this is one of Ness’s most important moves. You have to learn how to bust this move out in a variety of ways if you are going to have any success.
Verdict – Big Buff

Down Air: Now for the sad news. Man o man has this move been nerfed. The landing lag on this is atrocious. You can no longer short hop dair with any sort of confidence, which removes it as a nice changeup to approaching vs fair. You will be open to attack every time. The meteor effect (spike) has been significantly reduced. It still has it’s merits in very situational spots, but overall its effectiveness has been severly reduced.
Verdict: Big Nerf

Specials

PK Thunder and PK2 (Up B): Oh man, I am so excited about this move now. I used PK Thunder a harass tool to great effect in Brawl, and everything about it is safer, and better this time around. First off is regular PK Thunder. The ball is slightly bigger, making it easier to hit, and they fixed the knockback seemingly at early percentages so that the enemy isn’t knocked back so close to you that they can follow up with a move while you are still in pkthunder frames. The real big change though, is thanks to Smash4’s incredibly bad landing lag frames when someone airdodges to the ground. It lasts forever. In Brawl, a person would simply air dodge to the ground and hit the shield. Now though, if you time it right, you can hit the opponent every damn if they try this. Opponents will now have to out think where you are going with the pk thunder to avoid it, or hit some sort of aerial move to cancel it out, which is much harder than simply dodging. Faster
characters are still a problem and can quickly recover and hit you, so be careful.

PK2 has received some buffs as well. One of the big issues with Ness’ recovery in the past was people jumping and hanging around the top of Ness, waiting for PK Thunder so that they could get hit by it and cancel Ness’ recovery. Now though, there are a few invincibility frames on startup, which prevents this from happening. The opponent can still cancel it out by going behind Ness and hitting the thunder later in the cycle, but it’s much harder to do. Also, it seems like PK2 is a little bit stronger towards the tail end of the attack. In Brawl it got significantly weaker towards the end. Still, the sweet spot is hitting it close. The incredibly important buff, however, is due to the landing lag most characters have now with air dodge and other moves. It is much easier to make an opponent air dodge pkthunder while they are falling, and immediately follow up with a pk2 for the kill. Pk2, in my opinion, has now become a more common tool to use in a
wider variety of situations.
Verdict: Big Buff

PK Flash (neutral B): Not much of a change, but I did want to note that it seems easier to hit people recovering to the edge, at least it feels that way. I will have to use it more to see how accurate this is.
Verdict: neutral

PKFire: I haven’t notice much of a change. Di’ing out of it seems about the same. Might have a few extra frames of animation, but it is minimal if you know how to use it right, and that’s the key. Most Ness players who talk negatively about pkfire have no idea how to use pkfire. It’s a setup move, and you have to know when to use it to setup.
Verdict: neutral

Magnet: Pretty much the same. Seems to come out quicker than before. It is visibly bigger, but I don’t know if the range has increased or not. It received both a nerf and a buff in the air though. It no longer has the constant stopping effect as before when used in the air. This was good for tricking opponents into miscalculating your falling speed. Instead though, a cool new feature is if you jump and immedietly magnet afterwards, you do a really cool float effect that lasts for a second or so. I can see this as having potential, so for now I am going to say this breaks even.
Verdict: neutral


Conclusion:

There are other minor things, but I felt those were some of the more important points. Back Throw is still a beast, and Ness has other qualities that all round out to make him a versatile character. Although early in the game, I have yet to find a character that I cannot build a strategy around with Ness. He is also a good counter to some often used characters at the moment, such as Little Mac. I will be doing a follow up later with my strategies for all you Ness mains. Hope this helps any current or potential Ness players out there.
Click to expand...

interesting thoughts. i'm a ness main too, and i've really been enjoying the changes for the most part.

yoyo seem really buffed to me, in spite of the lack of hitbox while charging it. maybe i'm just better at using it now, but i'm getting way more kills and punishing rolls and airdodges a lot easier with the yoyo now.
 
R

roknin

Member
Dice said:
I didn't say it sucks, I said it is annoying.
Click to expand...

You are right, you didn't say "it sucks," so my bad on that.

What smash is about to me gets all muddled and distant in that scene. I also think a huge amount of competitive-only players are too haughty about their playstyle, giving it unearned cred and looking down too much on people who aren't so strict about rules.
Click to expand...

But see, this is unfair. You're pointing to a vocal minority, at best. The entire scene isn't like that.

And even then, "What Smash is about" is an unfair statement too... that's what its about, to you. It's the same way some competitive players sound when they moan about Sakurai adding in things for the non-competitive crowd or mentions keeping them in mind... except in reverse.

The options to turn items off, some stages that containing less or no hazards... these things exist. One side of the fence prefers them off, the other prefers them on. Neither really loses the "spirit" of the game, its just different ways to play. One happens to be more fair (or less obnoxious) for a competitive environment than the other.

Again, comparing to FPS (I do this b/c there aren't many fighters with items) you can easily come across a handful of people with weapons that put you at a disadvantage. How engagements form is fairly random, and you have to deal with unexpected uneven play skillfully, and also properly capitalize on advantages you get. It's a preference to have something pure from chance elements, but I wouldn't say it's inherently superior.
Click to expand...

There's no FPS I can think of where you're playing your normal way and suddenly an item that can immediately kill you just spawns out of nowhere. Or one the makes you completely invincible. Or any other number of things that items tend to do in Smash.

And even then, your example points to the difference in player skill more than the environment being a factor at random, or even interfering that much (per the bolded). How did they get these weapons? Were they on the map and they were able to get to them first? (Since in most FPS'I re call, spawn locations are set) Did they set out a plan to get them? Earn them via leveling up or prestige or etc.?

That's still skill-based and not due to the game saying "hey... I'm gonna' put a Green Shell right here, near your opponent."

I don't think its a good comparison.

That said, I'm not THAT versed in FPS' so I can't really speak to the finer details. :p

Competitive smash is like a FPS no grenades/rockets/snipers/health packs. You'll get more purity of positioning and timing play, and you can say your kills were definitely 100% skill, but it is less interesting in the end. Just overboard IMO especially when the design lends itself to chaos so nicely, and working with chance elements is also a valid skill not just "cheap" always. I don't have any problem recognizing this is a preference issue, and that is why I just say it is "annoying" to me.
Click to expand...

Not really per the above. An FPS minus those would be like Smash without Specials or saying "no using projectiles, That's cheap!" That would be a more apt comparison, since what you're removing would be base functionality all players have control over (weapons/pickups).

Thing is, its not that it's cheap... its that competitive players would sill come out on top and probably be even MORE obnoxious WITH items on. They'll have the movement options down to get to the items before other players do and it'll be even more slanted than it is in their favor.

About the only way it'd change things is literally adding the change of a Bob-omb (or bomb crate) spawning in someone's face, randomly changing the results nt due to any sort of skill, but just complete RNG.

THAT SAID, I do think some levels weigh too hard on the hazard side of things. Wily Castle is a good example. The stupid robot affects like 80% of the stage. At that point you aren't opening up new aspects of gameplay, you are just greatly stifling tons of options.
Click to expand...

I kinda' agree there, though (and this is where my post seems to run contrary to what I just said above), I do see it as pretty fun for F4A matches. If I'm not playing serious matches and just having a grand-ole'time with other friends on a Saturday night, then the Yellow Devil is probably pretty awesome to have there for the chaos. Same thing with the Flying Men in the Magicant stage.

If I'm playing anything remotely serious though, that thing has to go. :p
 
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