Looking back in this thread, it really is dumb how people were blaming Lindelof for this film. When you watch it, it's so obviously a Brad Bird affair - unlike Ghost Protocol, which he was basically a director for hire on.
I have no doubt that Bird's authority on this film is why it's so fucking enjoyable.
It's also really sad how many people wrote this film off based on those shit-cake reviews.
i wrote it off because of mission impossible 4, lindelof and the weak trailers.
but i read a pretty good review of it so i'll definitely check it out when it hits dvd. i don't have the love for brad bird that you have though so i dunno if i'll like it so much.
Great great movie. Story was awesome and made sense to me. Not sure why people think it's another "Lindelof mystery box" as it answered everything and worked in context. Oh wait yeah I do but whatever, I guess wallow in your misery.
When I think of Speed Racer I remember one of the most annoying kids I've seen in a film and his equally annoying chimp. And very weird cgi. Off putting, really. It only really sort of worked in the moments when it was a full on cartoon, but it's not like there was anything to care about, so.
Hmm, watched this last night. It is fine, but I didn't love it. Action is interesting and the story is fun. It takes way too long to get into it, though. The trailers are structured better than the film was, IMO.
Charles, if you skip this after giving all those piece of shit Marvel movies a go in cinemas, you're no longer allowed to complain about the state of summer movies/blockbusters/sequels etc.
I know for a fact you saw that garbage Cinderella remake Disney put out.
Well... I guess that wasn't an awful movie? Brad Bird is a talented filmmaker, and his ideas are pretty recognizable. They're idealistic and optimistic, aware of the imperfects of the world but also screaming out against apathy. So in that sense, this was a really Brad Bird movie. It was well shot, I really loved the casting, and there's genuine Disney flavored heart in the film, more so than the stream of live action remakes/reimaginations of their classic tales from the past few years. But at the same time I think the film is deeply flawed. And not in a "lol Lindelof strikes again" way either, because the problems with the story have nothing at all to do with the mysteries. Ultimately, I feel the movie is more ambitious with its themes than it is confident with how it wants to execute those themes. It's a Big Idea movie about having faith in hope and optimism, but it is made with little faith in the audience.
The entire final act of the movie is one scene after another of two-steps-forward-one-step-back. Every decision made on how to resolve the story feels like a thematic contradiction. The movie wants to blame systemic apathy for the world's faults, but it is too afraid to directly point the fingers at the audience, so it chooses to simplify problems into dramatic set pieces which have easy solutions (ie: defeat the bad guy, destroy the machine) rather than tapping into what could have been a much stronger emotional payoff which was already foreshadowed in the film. I felt it ultimately undermines the entire message and made the climax a fizzle instead of an uplifting and satisfying validation of positivity which it should have been.
On the plus side, the first half of the movie is genuinely enjoyable, and I really liked how the narrative on a whole was structured. The characters were introduced well, there was lots of great chemistry between the cast, and Athena is truly a joy to watch. She was a huge surprise for me, and the one thing which was consistently well executed throughout. Child characters are often hard to get right in movies like this, but they totally nailed it here. The design of Tomorrowland is fantastic, and in terms of visuals and just doing crazy stuff in the real world, the film was unafraid to just let got and be wild. Wish they could have taken that leap of faith with the conclusion of the story as well.
Knowing that Brad Bird made the decision to direct this instead of Star Wars because he felt if he didn't do this it wouldn't have been made, I have to applaud his decision as a win for original content. I'm glad the movie was made, and the industry is a better place with this existing rather than not, but I just wish he made it... better.
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Story spoiler discussion:
The entire climax in Tomorrowland itself is a huge letdown and a smack in the face of what the movie was building towards. Compressing the entire doomsday scenario into a ploy by a bitter old man who unintentionally used the prediction machine to telecast negative signals which caused a self fulfilling prophecy of negativity and doom in humanity is really fucking dumb. The climax should absolutely have been about Casey's hope, optimism, and youth being a direct counter force against the atrophy of Tomorrowland. It should have been about Casey convincing Frank to work with her to turn the doomsday clock back one bit at a time, with a montage at the end of everything they do causing the percentage to drop and the clock to reverse. It should not have been a fist fight with a big bad dude and his robots, and a scramble to blow up the big bad machine. That was just lazy. :/
at the same time I think the film is deeply flawed. And not in a "lol Lindelof strikes again" way either, because the problems with the story have nothing at all to do with the mysteries.
I think if this wasn't tied down to the Disney company, they could've gone a whole lot more abstract and philosophical than the crappy generic "dispatch the bad guy" routine at the end. There were really great ideas that weren't fleshed out fully and it disappoints me that they didn't go full BioShock and made Hugh Laurie's character into Andrew Ryan.
It very much is, but I felt that throughout the entire movie, it was crying out that being a "Disney film" could also be so much more. Instead of trying to really go there, it just made a compromise of suggesting those ideas, and then settling to be a normal Disney film after all. There are many things about Tomorrowland which is classic Disney - interesting female characters, memorable girl(s) in the lead role(s), tons of Disney historic references, heavy theme park influences, and the simplistic good vs evil villain showdown. Of all those elements, the final one is the weakest and actually drags the film down instead of making it more interesting.
I had a longer post to address this claim because it bothered me so much, but it just boils down to Speed Racer having a much tighter story with far better combination of visuals and dialogue. Ultimately, Speed decides to drive because he loves driving, putting aside all notions of changing anything.
Tomorrowland is a charming movie but the conflict is just too vague.
Disney shouldn't feel bad over one film though. Ratatouille was a sublime movie about cooking.
Looking back in this thread, it really is dumb how people were blaming Lindelof for this film. When you watch it, it's so obviously a Brad Bird affair - unlike Ghost Protocol, which he was basically a director for hire on.
I have no doubt that Bird's authority on this film is why it's so fucking enjoyable.
It's also really sad how many people wrote this film off based on those shit-cake reviews.
Saw it last night with my wife, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was not the best movie of the year, but it was fun, and it had heart like no other movie I've seen in 2015. Loved Grumpy Clooney, loved Hugh Laurie, loved the movie. I've got one major complaint, (which I'll go into in the spoiler section,) but yeah, This one is going into my blu-ray collection.
The movie is 100% classic Disney, but that's not a bad thing to me. I'm a huge 34 year old man, but whenever I walk into Disneyland, I can't help but grin like a goofy child. I see the business side of an amusement park or a movie like this, but I still can't help but get caught up in the optimism of Disneyland, or this film.
Spoilers now:
Loved the acting. Clooney was great, the girl who played Casey was great, and the girl who played Athena was phenomenal.
My only major complaint was that the majority of the movie was about getting to Tomorrowland, which didn't really leave any room to actually be in Tomorrowland. We see that Tomorrowland is barren, nearly abandoned, and in disrepair. Why? We're never told. Maybe the people who were there once upon a time went home when they realized Earth couldn't actually be saved, so they could spend time with their loved ones before the end. Maybe Nix went mad with power and deported a lot of people after he deported Frank. There are a ton of good explanations, the movie just didn't bother with them. An extra 20 or so minutes to flesh out the current state of Tomorrowland would have done wonders.
Athena getting hit by the truck was a WTF moment, and I laughed out loud, which was probably inappropriate. I couldn't believe they showed essentially a child getting hit by a truck in a Disney movie.
Just saw this. Thought the movie was good, not great but not bad at all. I pretty much echo Duck's thoughts on the film. Really well directed, terrific first 2 acts that kind of let down in the 3rd. I enjoyed the message the movie was portraying, as a dad I hope to inspire my own little girl to be a dreamer, a thinker, and an explorer in her own right and hope that the future is a better place partly because of her.
The child acting was pretty good (also was the brother the little boy from Looper, oh man he was sooooo good in that talk about good child acting.)
Clooney was good in it too but his and Athena's storyline I probably could've done without, not sure if that was needed and it ultimately just creeped me out just the tiniest bit.
Did this movie really just spend an hour and a half on Earth and twenty minutes at the titular location? Seems like that should have been flipped.
For a movie whining about optimism so much it sure killed the antagonist in a pretty grim way. They kind of toed the line between genuinely concerned/disillusioned and just another dictator clinging to power.
Also it seemed like there was a dropped thread with Frank's dad. He obviously had unresolved anger with him. He still kept pictures of him(right?). And the movie kind of stated they hadn't seen each other from 64-85 and possibly until present day. It seemed like it was building toward an ending where he encountered his dad as an old man/his grave. Otherwise his scene with Sobotka was pretty useless.
Was alright, ambition was bigger than execution unfortunately.
Clooney and Athena's chemistry was one of my favourite parts of the film. You dudes need to get your heads out of the gutter and remember the context. That she was able to put up that performance opposite the Cloonster is pretty impressive.
Charles, if you skip this after giving all those piece of shit Marvel movies a go in cinemas, you're no longer allowed to complain about the state of summer movies/blockbusters/sequels etc.
I know for a fact you saw that garbage Cinderella remake Disney put out.
For statistical comparison purposes, I only liked parts of Tomorrowland (I think I made a more detailed post a while back), but I really liked the new Cinderella movie -- good acting, beautiful costumes and visuals, great theme with the emphasis on being courageous and kind, etc.
The two movies seem pretty different though, so I'm not sure there will be a pattern with people who like one or the other.
Clooney and Athena's chemistry was one of my favourite parts of the film. You dudes need to get your heads out of the gutter and remember the context. That she was able to put up that performance opposite the Cloonster is pretty impressive.
Clooney and Athena's chemistry was one of my favourite parts of the film. You dudes need to get your heads out of the gutter and remember the context. That she was able to put up that performance opposite the Cloonster is pretty impressive.
Acting wise she definitely did a good job I can't deny that. The action scenes involving her fighting were great. I liked the flashback scenes with her and a young Clooney, those were sweet.
Athena is the best thing about the movie. Hands down. I actually feel bad about the movie tanking because I hope she gets to be a big Disney star. We need more child actors like that for good family films.
Clooney... I dunno. I love Clooney, but I just couldn't buy him being a bitter old man. He kept putting on that fake "I'm a dick" face throughout the film, and even then I just wanted to hug him.
Watched this movie last night with my father and three younger siblings.
I thought it was okay. The story was interesting, particularly the way that it was set up and how it unfolded throughout the movie. But the tone was off. Nothing quite felt "real".
I took my 6 year old son to see this. Why didn't I read the reviews first? He was bored to tears, and I was only marginally less so. I started to almost hate this movie during it's horribly contrived final act. And by the final scene I did. And as I sat thinking "wait, this doesn't make a lick of sense..." Lindeloffs name appears. Of fucking course.
Athena is the best thing about the movie. Hands down. I actually feel bad about the movie tanking because I hope she gets to be a big Disney star. We need more child actors like that for good family films.
Clooney... I dunno. I love Clooney, but I just couldn't buy him being a bitter old man. He kept putting on that fake "I'm a dick" face throughout the film, and even then I just wanted to hug him.
As an extended rumination of Ratatouille's food critic pondering if some people are more interested in being cynical and cutting people down rather then focusing and creating and bettering the world, I found the message agreeable and clearly presented, even the villain's speech at the end which was a bit overly preachy for a thinly sketched obstacle. But on the same level as the Ratatouille villain really.
As an adventure film, the humor was fun and vibrant and frequently informed by the characters
(Casey's cheerful announcement of "human!" and discovering the gadgets in Frank's bunker, Athena's car chase and other true nature reveals, and Frank getting put off balance by Casey's stubborn optimism)
, you clearly get a feel of Casey's wants and spirit in needing to find Tomorrowland, and I thought Frank's resentment and Athena's aloofness were fine in context
and not creepy. She invited him and worked with him and he thought she was something she was not, classic falling in love with robot set up. Even when it's old man Frank and 12 year old Athena, they built enough history to earn a connection.
.
It's a shame that the villain just feels like an inorganic element and the solution, less relatable and more spectacle. The halfhearted action of the climax ends up coloring the positive feelings I have for the rest of it, and the rest of it was a delight. Not that the final battle didn't have interesting things happening, the use of various Tomorrowland gadgetry was visually cool but in terms of thematic resolution, it didn't feel like the natural solution to their problem. Even with the thin foreshadowing and payoff of
"feed the right wolf." Needed more payoff of Athena and Frank telling and believing that Casey was special. Optimism should've saved the day somehow.
I gotta say I didn't enjoy the movie that much (I fucking passed Mad Max to watch this, gonna have to rectify that). Gonna put some blame on the late hour though, as it started at 10:40 pm or something and yesterday had been a really exhausting day. It was the first time I fell asleep during a movie and as I said, maybe the hour and my lack of rest are to blame there in some degree. I didn't like that the movie keeps many things in secrecy during the first act. You barely have an idea of what it is about or what the context is. The villain was under developed and never felt like an actual threat. I guess I would have been better off watching this movie at home with my little cousins. I should've watched a trailer so I could have had an idea, maybe I wouldn't have watched it then. I think there was a good concept on paper but the execution wasn't really on point, plus it doesn't help that there is far too much cheesiness.
Saw it last night. Not exactly the most entertaining movie, but I thought Raffey Cassidy stole every scene that she was in, she was amazing as Athena. Reminded me a little of Lindsay Lohan in The Parent Trap. Britt Robertson as Casey doesn't really do much even though she is featured so prominently in the trailers.
Great adventure, sense of wonder, and just a fun ride of escapism!
I agree that the 3rd act became cliche with explanation, exposition, and a lot of ham-fisting of the film's message and ideas......but through and through it was a fantastic looking and engaging film!
Definitely one of the gems of 2015 and a solid effort by Brad Bird.
I saw it Tuesday but didn't feel like posting about it, so good thing the thread bumped lol.
I think Bird's message is a good one and I think it makes for a decent movie to the younger audience it's aimed at, but the package it's wrapped in is questionable and sloppy. Was hoping for something much better, but I can see myself revisiting, Raffey and Pierce have a bright future ahead of them.
I'm still surprised Cloney even did this movie lol.
* Why isn't Casey affected by the bad vibe machine? Why is she special? Is she the only one?
* Why are they working so hard to find Athena when they know for a fact that the world is about to end?
* So Athena was made for recruitment. Great. Why does a recruitment bot have a undefeatable, high explosive, self destruct? How many innocent people have been killed by these things? Who the hell would design her like that?
* Which brings me to, who the hell did design her? Who was in charge of Tommorowland when things were going well? What happened to them? How do you make this movie without a Walt-esque father figure? Was Hugh Laurie always in charge? If so, why are they reviving his flawed plan after they killed him?
* So two people show up in Tommorowland, Kill the Governor, who you would assume has some level of support with the people there, and everybody seems ok with that? Like they just make the people who killed him the new leader? How does that work?
* How exactly do you go about improving the earth by removing a bunch of smart people? How is Casey cool with this? It seems out of character for her.
* So, sending out a cute young female recruitbot did a number on Clooney's psyche for most of his adult life, but he is cool with sending out more?
* They make a big deal about Casey's hat at a few points in the movie. Then it blows off (during a conversation about predestination no less) and she just moves on. Some real Chekhov's gun stuff there. Stuff like that really bothers me.
* Why did Casey just stand directly under the tower while Clooney flew up to blow it? Why didn't she try to save Hugh Laurie? Why was she cool with letting him die? It would make so much more sense thematically for her to show him that she is better. At least try to save the guy. Or run, or do something.
* With all the setup for the "Feed the right wolf" stuff and the "The machine is broadcasting" stuff i figured that they would hook Casey up to the thing and let her send out good vibes. Schmaltzy sure, but in keeping with the theme. But no, they just blow shit up. They save earth from violence by blowing shit up and killing a dude.
* Oh and why have that whole extra step of transporting to the Eiffel Tower so they can fly to orbit, so they can turnaround and transdimensional travel to Tommorowland? The movie already takes way too long to get to Tommorowland and nothing of value happens during any of that. It's just a bunch of wheel spinning.
You can see the seams of a bunch of rewrites and the thing feels unfocused. It also felt long. On the plus side, I saw it in IMAX it was purdy.
Just got back from seeing this, think probably one of the last showings over here in the U.K.
Despite it's flaws I enjoyed it, but make no mistake, some of it's flaws are writ large. Doesn't help that Lindelof again seems to vomited a load of ideas onto the page without even trying to ground them with some sense, when will this man be rained in? In the end it succeeds though, both in being original in a sea of sequels and in most of it's set pieces, just plain fun.
Brad Bird has outright laughed before in an interview at such a question and basically said some people couldn't tell when he was satirizing objectivism, rather than supporting it.
* Why isn't Casey affected by the bad vibe machine? Why is she special? Is she the only one?
* Why are they working so hard to find Athena when they know for a fact that the world is about to end?
* So Athena was made for recruitment. Great. Why does a recruitment bot have a undefeatable, high explosive, self destruct? How many innocent people have been killed by these things? Who the hell would design her like that?
* Which brings me to, who the hell did design her? Who was in charge of Tommorowland when things were going well? What happened to them? How do you make this movie without a Walt-esque father figure? Was Hugh Laurie always in charge? If so, why are they reviving his flawed plan after they killed him?
* So two people show up in Tommorowland, Kill the Governor, who you would assume has some level of support with the people there, and everybody seems ok with that? Like they just make the people who killed him the new leader? How does that work?
* How exactly do you go about improving the earth by removing a bunch of smart people? How is Casey cool with this? It seems out of character for her.
* So, sending out a cute young female recruitbot did a number on Clooney's psyche for most of his adult life, but he is cool with sending out more?
* They make a big deal about Casey's hat at a few points in the movie. Then it blows off (during a conversation about predestination no less) and she just moves on. Some real Chekhov's gun stuff there. Stuff like that really bothers me.
* Why did Casey just stand directly under the tower while Clooney flew up to blow it? Why didn't she try to save Hugh Laurie? Why was she cool with letting him die? It would make so much more sense thematically for her to show him that she is better. At least try to save the guy. Or run, or do something.
* With all the setup for the "Feed the right wolf" stuff and the "The machine is broadcasting" stuff i figured that they would hook Casey up to the thing and let her send out good vibes. Schmaltzy sure, but in keeping with the theme. But no, they just blow shit up. They save earth from violence by blowing shit up and killing a dude.
* Oh and why have that whole extra step of transporting to the Eiffel Tower so they can fly to orbit, so they can turnaround and transdimensional travel to Tommorowland? The movie already takes way too long to get to Tommorowland and nothing of value happens during any of that. It's just a bunch of wheel spinning.
You can see the seams of a bunch of rewrites and the thing feels unfocused. It also felt long. On the plus side, I saw it in IMAX it was purdy.
* Why isn't Casey affected by the bad vibe machine? Why is she special? Is she the only one?
* Why are they working so hard to find Athena when they know for a fact that the world is about to end?
* So Athena was made for recruitment. Great. Why does a recruitment bot have a undefeatable, high explosive, self destruct? How many innocent people have been killed by these things? Who the hell would design her like that?
* Which brings me to, who the hell did design her? Who was in charge of Tommorowland when things were going well? What happened to them? How do you make this movie without a Walt-esque father figure? Was Hugh Laurie always in charge? If so, why are they reviving his flawed plan after they killed him?
* So two people show up in Tommorowland, Kill the Governor, who you would assume has some level of support with the people there, and everybody seems ok with that? Like they just make the people who killed him the new leader? How does that work?
* How exactly do you go about improving the earth by removing a bunch of smart people? How is Casey cool with this? It seems out of character for her.
* So, sending out a cute young female recruitbot did a number on Clooney's psyche for most of his adult life, but he is cool with sending out more?
* They make a big deal about Casey's hat at a few points in the movie. Then it blows off (during a conversation about predestination no less) and she just moves on. Some real Chekhov's gun stuff there. Stuff like that really bothers me.
* Why did Casey just stand directly under the tower while Clooney flew up to blow it? Why didn't she try to save Hugh Laurie? Why was she cool with letting him die? It would make so much more sense thematically for her to show him that she is better. At least try to save the guy. Or run, or do something.
* With all the setup for the "Feed the right wolf" stuff and the "The machine is broadcasting" stuff i figured that they would hook Casey up to the thing and let her send out good vibes. Schmaltzy sure, but in keeping with the theme. But no, they just blow shit up. They save earth from violence by blowing shit up and killing a dude.
* Oh and why have that whole extra step of transporting to the Eiffel Tower so they can fly to orbit, so they can turnaround and transdimensional travel to Tommorowland? The movie already takes way too long to get to Tommorowland and nothing of value happens during any of that. It's just a bunch of wheel spinning.
You can see the seams of a bunch of rewrites and the thing feels unfocused. It also felt long. On the plus side, I saw it in IMAX it was purdy.
Just saw it and Oh God this movie. First half was great but then it turned to complete shit and left me with a billion unanswered questions.I dont understand what happened to all the people who were shown living in Tomorrowland at the beginning of the film. Were they killed by Governor Nix? Forced into exile? Why is tomorrowland all abandoned with a handful of evil robots running around?
Also who was that governor guy was he a human or a robot? Was he from Earth originally? If not, where did he originate from? How did he takeover Tomorrowland? Who built all the evil audio animatronics and why did they become bad guys? Was he actually doing anything to cause the world to end (the movie implies it but then makes it vague)? If so, why? What was Walt Disney's role in all of this (he was strongly used in the early marketing and his presence was felt through the movie)? Why were the robots killing everyone and chasing Athena/main girl/Frank at the beginning of the movie if Governor Nix didnt care anyway since the world was going to end anyway? What exactly was Tomorrowland anyway at first I thought it was the actual future that dreamers of the pasts actions helped create and they would go there get inspired more and go back to their time and build more which in turn would make tomorrowland better but then the movie says its another dimension so how did humans get there in the first place and why? Why didnt they use anything from actual Tomorrowland in the movie I mean Jesus Christ how can you have a scene where the girl is running towards Space Mountain and then not use Space Mountain?? And no Peoplemover, Innerspace, etc.references are you kidding me?
I can't believe sculli had the nerve to say this movie was better than Jurassic World. At least that movie explained everything in movie this movie was so fucking sloppy.
