Infernostew
Member
I wasn't implying that. I'm just saying that it's hard to talk about things we clearly don't know anything about.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sony is officially helping with funding and development with Shenmue 3
- Thread starter kamakazi5
- Start date
I wasn't implying that. I'm just saying that it's hard to talk about things we clearly don't know anything about.
They can change this anytime and make physical PS4 discs a thing. Just look at what BloodStained did. It went from PS4/PC/XBONE only to being on the Wii U and Vita as well, also with physical copies.
Littlefang
Member
Nope, once the kickstarter is ended you don't get that money back. I mean there would certainly be backlash, but Sony could just say "Well we only helped with the project, it's not our responsibility for it to actually get made."
Accountability to me would be for those who funded the game to get their money back if the project fell through like a preorder would give because that's essentially what this is. Now of course this kickstarter money isn't Sony's money, but what they've done is tied themselves to the game without being responsible for it. I mean for all I know Shenmue III could end up being a very successful game and Sony could potentially benefit a lot from funding it. If this is just a one off thing with Shenmue I would be fine with it, but there is that potential for this to become a trend with more games or for Sony to do this with other games as well.
So how much money do people expect Sony to put into this thing?
I can't imagine the final budget will be much more than $10-15 million, there's no way it's getting the kind of budget the other two games had.
I think people should really adjust their expectations as to the scope of this game.
I can't imagine the final budget will be much more than $10-15 million, there's no way it's getting the kind of budget the other two games had.
I think people should really adjust their expectations as to the scope of this game.
Well yeah, that is basically this whole thread boiled down to one sentence. Haha.
...that's not accountability, it's insurance. Do you assume that Sony or anyone else gets their money back if a project falls through halfway through development?
If you are uncomfortable with the risk, don't back it.
Orthogonal
Member
I don't see why this matters. A digital sale is still a sale. Just that it is now instead of later.
Don't worry about it. Suzuki, his team, and Sony will be aware of all that's going on and have an idea of the kinds of numbers they want to meet throughout, just roll with it dude.
Take a risk? People want to see this game come out, Sony gave them the platform, a major platform for them to reach their goal quick, or to even just announce the Kickstarter.
I'm beginning to think people are just looking for any reason to argue at this point.
Shenmue is coming, thank you Sony
If only 100,000 people buy into the Kickstarter on a game that is going to sell more than 1M copies, that's not going to change its sales trajectory very much. Moreover, these most ardent fans are likely to evangelize the game to their friends, serving as a marketing tool. I'm also sure that Sony has all sorts of metrics for if a game sells X units to backers, it ends up selling Y*X amount at retail and digitally. They should have a decent idea of how well the game will perform overall before production begins.
Sony can probably push a game to way more than 30K in sales just by giving it heavy promotion on the PSN Store and/or releasing a demo. In the grand scheme of things the numbers are not exactly staggering.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Did you take into account inflation?
DirgeExtinction
Member
Exactly. It was people putting their money where their mouth is.
CambriaRising
Member
What does it matter? They already paid for the game.
Sony are publishing this, not developing it. They are to all intents and purposes the largest backer in the kickstarter, and Sony are accountable - to their shareholders.
This basically. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head over this.
From the Kickstarter FAQ:
"Who is responsible for completing a project as promised?
It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.
Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it."
The overall numbers aren't huge, but the data is invaluable.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Was wondering about this. Boyes "their title" line at the conference threw me off a little. But yeah this makes sense.
I don't think this is accurate.
You mean like losing all of the money they have also invested in the title?
shinobi602
Member
Prior two games were grossly mismanaged, hence their insane budgets.
Given Sony/Suzuki smartly avoid that this time, there's no reason it should cost a ton.
I have no issue with it. I've never viewed KickStarter as some holy sacred thing. Do I personally think it was tacky to do a KS at E3? Yes. But is it sneaky or corrupt and immoral? Hell no.
Even if KS is used as a test of interest, everyone gets exactly what they paid for. It's like fans putting their money where their mouth is and pre ordering much earlier than usual. There is nothing wrong with that.
Even if KS is used as a test of interest, everyone gets exactly what they paid for. It's like fans putting their money where their mouth is and pre ordering much earlier than usual. There is nothing wrong with that.
Ghost Slayer
Member
With Sony helps funding, i think they will release physical box by themself. They knew fans would buy for it.
Windom Earle
Member
Yeah, it is really disgusting. Those are great news for Shenmue fans!
I think Shenmue had 47 million and Shenmue II had 100 million.
Littlefang
Member
Well Sony also stands to make money if the project does well and those that fund the kickstarter don't. I mean it's probable that this is just a one-off thing and I'm overreacting, but what happens when more games need to be funded first by kickstarter and then a larger publisher provides the brunt of the budget. There's a possibility that this will become similar to pre-ordering where you need to back the kickstarter in order to get x content in a game. But the difference between preordering and kickstarter is that the you don't get your money back if the game is dropped or you don't like how the development is going.
But that's just the thing, Shenmue is not guaranteed to happen. Hell maybe Sony decides to pull out of the project in the future. You can't predict how well a game's development goes before it's even happened.
It's one thing to know 25-30k want it. It's another to see if they will pay money, and how much they are willing to pay.
So? That is your risk with backing any KS project...
This is no different. Sony takes a risk too. If they let dev fall and no one gets what they paid, they will piss off a lot of fans and make a lot of people angry. Their rep would take a hit. But this is still no different then any KS. No one put a gun to your head and told you to donate. Those are the risks with KS, deal with.
If anything, knowing Sony is backing this, you have a much higher chance of getting what you pledged then you do other projects. You have a looming corporate backer/safety net. People donate to KS all the time and take on the risks of using this system. And people get burned all the time. This KS has Sony as a safety net, so you are actually taking less risk.
Why that's a problem wit you, I don't understand. Why you are singling this KS out, and acting like it's different then others? I don't get it.
This has been true of all Kickstarter projects ever and it has nothing to do with this particular one.
Littlefang
Member
Yes but it's awfully scummy for Sony to do this when they will not go bankrupt if the project fails. They can afford to fund this whether or not it does well and because of that, they should not be asking the consumers to fund a project first before they pick it up.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Pretty much yep.
But look at it this way: Shenmue will be on a popular console for once
!And yet people were once told to adjust their expectations to not expect a Shenmue 3 at all.
Yet look where we are already after only 24 hours following the mere mention of its Kickstarter going live.
no
shenmue as a project was 47 million. that's the saturn version, shenmue, and shenmue II
Basically
Poop!
Member
Shenmue 2 used the same game engine and a lot of the same assets of Shenmue 1
Why though? They're just an investor in a game, and all the big Kickstarter projects are funded this way. Again, it looks like you may have a bone with Kickstarter itself, but that bone is irrelevant to this particular project.
Bravo.
It's not their f**** game !
Shin
Banned
Every and any company could have picked this up, but they didn't...Sony did.
Hell look how many years it even took them (gaming industry in general) to even do something about the title.
It's been explained so many times already as to why KS happen at E3, why KS to begin with.
I for one could care less about all these potential "issues" because I'm happy that the game will finally be made.
Not only that but fans have a direct part of making history with the process.
I would imagine that Sony's revenue stream for both games would be entirely restricted to the PS4 side of the equation. Will they likely see a far larger share per copy sold on PS4 than other 3rd party titles or independent software published by Sony on PSN? Most likely, but I think it would be inaccurate to assume Sony is a financial stakeholder across the board.
The best way to view Sony's role in Shenmue, from how I see it at least, is that they are:
1. giving Yu Suzuki the same resources they would provide to a pub fund/indie studio group announcing a PS4/PC exclusive title. This likely includes a suite of development kits, already established software libraries, and regular technical support.
2. the biggest behind the scenes Kickstarter backer of all time. Sony wants Shenmue 3 to happen. They don't own the rights to make it, Suzuki isn't on their payroll, and they likely don't see much real chance or value in trying to make either of those happen. Much like all of us they're putting a nice chunk of change behind the promise of Suzuki making Shenmue 3. If Suzuki inexplicably calls it quits a year or two from now they'll be out their investment just like the rest of us. The only difference is that theirs will be a seven to eight figure number while even the most generous of us will maybe make it into the very first stages of five figures.
The suggestion that this is Sony using Kickstarter to effectively collect money from consumers preemptively assumes that Sony has complete control over the Shenmue IP. They do not. They don't even have the rights to use Shenmue in any real form. SEGA owns the IP, they've given Suzuki quite a bit of latitude to play with in his pursuit of a final chapter, but ultimately they control the franchise's fate into perpetuity. If Suzuki walks away Sony can't finish the game. If Suzuki dies Sony can't finish the game. If the game is a real stinker but Suzuki is done and wants to push it out the door Sony can't polish up the game. Sony's role is less powerless than the average KS backer because they're a platform holder and have a working relationship with Suzuki, but their fiscal involvement isn't buying them much else here.
Also, I'd much rather see the Shenmue 3 that collects $5M to $10M on KS and has a comparable amount of cash slipped in the back door by Sony (along with a bunch of free development resources) than the Shenmue 3 Suzuki could make with just what he gets from Kickstarter alone. It will likely result in a significant upgrade to the quality of the title, which is ultimately what really matters.
Sparkedglory
Member
Not really. It's the consumers ultimate choice whether or not they wanna give money to the project or not. And it's only 2 million. The rest of it sure as hell ain't gonna come from the consumers. It'll come from Sony, who this game wouldn't exist without.
Outrun
Member
I remember the good old days when corps used to test interest by conducting market research...
Regardless, I hope that Suzuki pulls it off.
I would hope that people supporting this will not go bankrupt at the end of the 31 Days.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
It's Shenmue 3.
I tried to sell my soul to Lucifer to get it made in 2006.
Too bad I'd already given it to Tom Johnson.
It's actually happening. We actually get to play Shenmue 3.
I tried to sell my soul to Lucifer to get it made in 2006.
Too bad I'd already given it to Tom Johnson.
It's actually happening. We actually get to play Shenmue 3.
Huh?
How is this scumny? This is a KS project and everyone knows what the KS format is, and the risk you take. Sony is giving a safety net for a KS project. Backers should feel more confident in this project, they donate and take risks with every KS pledge. But this KS has a major safety net and thus risk is much lower.
Why this makes Sony scummy, I am beyond baffled by your view point. This isn't their title, and they can't predict whether this creator and dev will pull through. They can't force them to create a good game. They are taking a risk just like we are taking a risk. Sony was actually up front and made it clear this was their project and it would be the KS format, which means everyone knows the risk. But at least this KS project has Sony also taking a risk alongside us and acting as a safety net.
So this makes Sony scummy how?
I really am trying so hard to see your view point and I can't. I am so perplexed where you are coming from with this.
What invaluable data comes from this Kickstarter?
That's equivalent to $67 million in 2015, inflation-adjusted http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=47.00&year1=1999&year2=2015
Still a big-budget game.
mokalovesoulmate
Member
Um, sorry but IIRC Shenmue III will released on PS4 and PC. Not totally PS4 exclusive...am I missing something?
Similar threads
- Poll