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How can the games industry resist and push back against Trump & his fascism?

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L

Lime

Member
I'm sorry that people feel they don't want this thread here on the Gaming side, but I made it because the initiatives by game writers and developers who have already come out and made a statement. E.g. Fullbright are LGBTQ supporters and are very much affected by the election results, they made their game free for all. Isn't that thread-worthy in itself?

The people who make the games you love will be affected by the coming administration. The people in your neighborhood, city, county, state, country and world are affected by this. We cannot ignore it.
 
N

norm9

Member
Jonnax said:
So in terms of consoles I think there should be functionality tied in with the report functionality.

Consoles have the ability to record now so when someone is hurling racist, sexist, homophobic etc abuse, have the functionality to report with video/audio.

That with practice be support staff should foster a better community. If there's a a chance of reprisal then bad people are more likely to follow the rules.
Click to expand...

Man, if every online player got banned for their hate speech, it'd be a ghost town.

I think sony/msoft wouldn't ban them because they like their money more.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
Jonnax said:
So in terms of consoles I think there should be functionality tied in with the report functionality.

Consoles have the ability to record now so when someone is hurling racist, sexist, homophobic etc abuse, have the functionality to report with video/audio.

That with practice be support staff should foster a better community. If there's a a chance of reprisal then bad people are more likely to follow the rules.
Click to expand...

Agree. This is definitely needed. No excuse considering consoles can record audio and video (as you've stated).
 
T

The Cartographer

Member
Whether you like it or not, the games industry and culture are not detached from this fallout and "we" cannot escape into the comfortable nature of entertainment away from what's going on "outside" (especially if we are affected by his policies)
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Please elaborate on this part.

I mainly (almost exclusively) play Japanese games and I'm not from the US so I don't really see how am I effected by Trump's future policies regarding vidya gaems.
 
T

Trace

Banned
Saucycarpdog said:
I think the industry needs to push back against shit like Gamergate before they can even hope to deal with Trump.
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I'd argue the racism and sexism that powers Gamergate is much of the same racism and sexism that compelled people to vote for Trump.

It still astounds me how many women voted for Trump.
 
Outrun

Outrun

Member
Fight back?

As a Muslim I feel like many Democrats could not give two shits about Muslims.

I mean where was the concern for Muslims when the Middle East was being destabilized? The amount of grief that the TSA and border services subject Muslims to proceeded Trump.

I am still waiting Obama to close Gitmo...

I am still waiting the US to force Israel to deal with Palestinians in good faith...

Don't fight Trump.

Fight injustice period. The videogame industry is just a microcosm of society.

One thing that an be done is stop with the Muslim terrorist stereotypes in games.
 
G

gamingPotato7

Member
John Kowalski said:
They're not welcome because racism and sexism aren't welcome.



Whatsoever took Trump voters to vote for him, in voting for him they inevitably supported all aspects of his campaign that promoted discriminatory dialogue and policies. Whether that makes them racist or sexist is irrelevant, what's relevant is what's the difference? They still voted for a bigot, and bigotry he will promote, and at best those voters considered that an acceptable trade for whatever positives they might have seen in his campaign.
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Or maybe they want change, maybe those voters want someone to talk about their issues. Maybe they want to end corruption and are fed up with the status quo. Maybe a good percentage of those voters voted for Obama and felt betrayed. People voting for Hillary support war mongering, negligence and lying? Of course not, its all about political views and the issues and none of the candidates were suited for the job.

Baron von Loathsome said:
Please, point out to me a post on this forum where someone expressed that sentiment.
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Is this forum a self contained universe?
 
C

Cocaloch

Member
I think more games exploring political philosophy would be useful. I think it's pretty odd that it isn't already common since after ethics it seems like the most obviously related section of philosophy to interactive media.

Gaming needs something like War and Peace I think. The lack of agency that forms the core of the book would be pretty subversive for games. To some extent spec ops and Bioshock have gone down that road, but the former wasn't exactly played by lots of people and the later's points were ignored in favor of talking about the far more obvious, and less interesting, fac that the setting lampooned Objectivism.
 
S

Scientist Supreme!

Banned
Lime said:
I'm sorry that people feel they don't want this thread here on the Gaming side, but I made it because the initiatives by game writers and developers who have already come out and made a statement. E.g. Fullbright are LGBTQ supporters and are very much affected by the election results, they made their game free for all. Isn't that thread-worthy in itself?

The people who make the games you love will be affected by the coming administration. The people in your neighborhood and your country are affected by this. We cannot ignore it.
Click to expand...
You have nothing to feel sorry about. I wanted to make a similar thread but knew someone smarter than me would do better job.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
NoPiece said:
Everyone who disagrees with me is a racist and a sexist, but feel free to disagree with me.
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I can't believe people (and you) are stating stuff like this.

This isn't due to simple disagreement as if people can't agree on what to get for lunch. This is about large groups of people -- including many that play games, and make games -- experiencing hate for traits they can't control because of recent events.

If you don't understand that then you should probably put the controller down and get out more.
 
C

Catvoca

Banned
Austin Walker's article on Waypoint is really great, i know you put it in the OP but imma link it again since I loved it. https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/a-note-on-trump-waypoint-and-why-we-play

I believe, firmly, that the way to encourage inclusivity, compassion, and equality is by shining a light on the ways that the world is already diverse and on the people who struggle in order to make it better. Whether you're reading this as a game maker, a journalist, or a player and fan, we can all contribute in that cause.
Click to expand...
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Sniffynose said:
Ya likewise, but if I said for the sore losers to get lost right away I'd be a demon amirite?

Might want to get off that horse it's a bit too high
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No you're not a "demon", just an annoying thread shitter. Telling you to get lost or take your whining to PM isn't about political beliefs it's about the TOS.
 
D

daemonkiller92

Member
What else could the games industry do, but keep making and releasing games? Why should it do anything more? Diversify more? They should be doing that no matter the president.
 
E

EBE

Member
Please read Robert Paxton's The Anatomy of Fascism, Natalia Molina's How Race is Made in America, and Jeremy Salt's The Unmaking of the Middle East. They're good for some background.
 
L

Lime

Member
aeolist said:
i for one am definitely counting on amoral capitalists to sell me some mindless pop punk games that will make me feel better about living under an authoritarian

just don't tell me about their soul crushing labor conditions or homogeneous internal culture please, it might sully my immersion
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Damn, you're making me depressed :/

What do you think can be done? Both fix their internal problems as well as making a stand?
 
P

PSqueak

Banned
Zolo said:
Banning for thread shitting and derailing the thread by talking about how the topic shouldn't be a thread is bannable under many topics. There are ways to contact mods about the thread without derailing it, and it doesn't mean they'll agree with you.
Click to expand...

i can personally testify that this is true, i was temp banned for the bolded on a topic that didn't even have political weight.

I don't see how a thread about contextualizing what the USA is going thru for videogames and how it affects the medium should be closed.

Satire games like mr president and that trump simil in WD2 go to show that videogames will always be affected by culture and topical events, don't need to pretend it's not true.
 
Copper

Copper

Member
Holy crap the first page ban nuke.

Anyways, on topic I think the gaming industry is already doing a good job at pushing diversity in games. Bioware has been doing this a lot, especially with DA:I. I expect the same in the new Mass Effect.
 
J

Jonnax

Member
norm9 said:
Man, if every online player got banned for their hate speech, it'd be a ghost town.
Click to expand...

Oh I don't think so.
It'd be like an impulse response:
fA66QqU.jpg


There would be a lot of drama initially but then it'll settle down.

It'd have to be done on a platform level though otherwise people would just migrate to another game making a toxic community radioactive waste.
 
J

John Kowalski

Banned
gamingPotato7 said:
Or maybe they want change, maybe those voters want someone to talk about their issues. Maybe they want to end corruption and are fed up with the status quo. Maybe a good percentage of those voters voted for Obama and felt betrayed. People voting for Hillary support war mongering, negligence and lying? Of course not, its all about political views and the issues and none of the candidates were suited for the job.
Click to expand...

There's a big difference between a candidate having participated in unethical politics, and a candidate promoting unethical politics.

Real_Madrid said:
But calling a whole movement fascist is apparently ok and if people say something about that they 'shouldn't click on the thread'.
What a discussion.
Click to expand...

Trump's campaign is pretty strongly neo facist. And those being asked to leave the thread are hearing it not because they're concerned about the semantics at play, but because they're arguing that this shouldn't be discussed here, even though it's related directly to the industry and to its products.
 
C

Cocaloch

Member
aeolist said:
i for one am definitely counting on amoral capitalists to sell me some mindless pop punk games that will make me feel better about living under an authoritarian

just don't tell me about their soul crushing labor conditions or homogeneous internal culture please, it might sully my immersion
Click to expand...

Good work has been done in sub optimal positions plenty of times. Look at Publishing and 17th century England and 18th century Europe. The enterprise was clearly capitalistic, but that didn't constraint the work.

Though I suppose I'll get some vulgar-marxist response about the fact that it was because the literature was beneficial to Capitalists.
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Member
They'll do their own thing like they always have done. The only time gaming has really been affected by govt is with the violence stuff awhile back. Which has died down a lot these days. Gaming has gotten better with diversity in numerous ways, and a new president won't change that.
 
G

gamingPotato7

Member
Baron von Loathsome said:
Your phrasing implied that this is the echo chamber in which you heard such sentiments.
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I said "But the same echo chamber I lived in these past months, when he won and I realized how stupid I was being, it made me sick." This can be the media I watched, like Stephen Colbert and The Daily Show or listening to the polls saying it would be a land slide for Hillary. Or seeing a couple of my friends liking a Trump post on Facebook and being sick of seeing so many supporters commenting and thinking they were all ignorant and racist. That echochamber, which is not restricted to NeoGaf or even inclusive of NeoGaf since I rarely go to Off-Topic.

If that is all you took away from my "phrasing" then lets end the discussion here since I do not want to derail the thread and make it about me.
 
AmuroChan

AmuroChan

Member
Trace said:
I'd argue the racism and sexism that powers Gamergate is much of the same racism and sexism that compelled people to vote for Trump.

It still astounds me how many women voted for Trump.
Click to expand...

Maybe because that's not the reason why women voted for Trump. Many people are astounded and shocked because they think the only reason to vote Trump is if you're a racist or sexist.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
jacks81x said:
Maybe because that's not the reason why women voted for Trump. Many people are astounded and shocked because they think the only reason to vote Trump is if you're a racist or sexist.
Click to expand...

Economic anxiety was a big part of it but a lot of people looked past the terrible things he was saying because they were worried about their jobs. That and they took a know manipulator at his word which is the dumbest thing anyone can do. I'm still wondering how his most ardent supporters who hoped he would "drain the swamp" are feeling with a cabinet that is almost entirely long term GOP politicians.

I know when I think the anti establishment the names that come to mind are Giuliani, Gingrich and Priebus.
 
Z

Zvonimir Boban

Banned
Awwww, all these precious little flowers mortified at having to confront the reality that modern society rewards open racism and bigotry. "Can you minorities go and be oppressed elsewhere please, it's interfering with my enjoyment as I pretend this identikit white guy is saving the world for the thousandth time"

jacks81x said:
Maybe because that's not the reason why women voted for Trump. Many people are astounded and shocked because they think the only reason to vote Trump is if you're a racist or sexist.
Click to expand...

No, they can be idiots who are willing to overlook racism and sexism as long as other people are the ones being targeted.

In which case they're not much better than the racists and sexists and they can also all fuck off.
 
T

Trace

Banned
jacks81x said:
Maybe because that's not the reason why women voted for Trump. Many people are astounded and shocked because they think the only reason to vote Trump is if you're a racist or sexist.
Click to expand...

If you can degrade yourself to the point where someone blatantly shitting on an entire sex doesn't make you angry, I don't know how to talk to you.
 
stuminus3

stuminus3

Banned
GAF doesn't usually prove my point so quickly but holy macaroni are some of you guys with the grey names are a prime example of what I was talking about.
 
S

SuperDowns

Banned
jacks81x said:
Maybe because that's not the reason why women voted for Trump. Many people are astounded and shocked because they think the only reason to vote Trump is if you're a racist or sexist.
Click to expand...
If they didn't vote for those reasons for Trump then it is just sheer ignorance. Regardless games and games writer should hold a mirror to what is happening in the world and hopefully change people's mind that feel that extreme conservatism is a rational path for our world.
 
G

Giftofgab24

Member
Jito said:
It'll probably surprise you then that not everyone on here is American and that we don't give a shit about your politics.
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You probably should. It doesn't matter what country you live in. It's gonna has some type of effect on you or your country. America isn't an isolated country. There's most likely a lot of business done with whatever country you're from.
 
T

TheChaos

Member
Lime said:
I'm sorry that people feel they don't want this thread here on the Gaming side, but I made it because the initiatives by game writers and developers who have already come out and made a statement. E.g. Fullbright are LGBTQ supporters and are very much affected by the election results, they made their game free for all. Isn't that thread-worthy in itself?

The people who make the games you love will be affected by the coming administration. The people in your neighborhood, city, county, state, country and world are affected by this. We cannot ignore it.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't need to apologize. The election results going forward will bleed into every aspect of the media, including video games. (Well, western ones, at least). It's important to talk about how things will change, and perhaps video game companies will begin to push back against the political climate with their video game subjects.
 
L

LordJim

Member
Zvonimir Boban said:
Awwww, all these precious little flowers mortified at having to confront the reality that modern society rewards open racism and bigotry. "Can you minorities go and be oppressed elsewhere please, it's interfering with my enjoyment as I pretend this identikit white guy is saving the world for the thousandth time"
Click to expand...

I pretend to save the world with my custom character from character creation, thank you very much
 
A

aeolist

Banned
Lime said:
Damn, you're making me depressed :/

What do you think can be done? Both fix their internal problems as well as making a stand?
Click to expand...

leftist politics, labor solidarity, supporting people trying to build alternate economies outside the mainstream systems

this and more built around and led by a core of people who have been left out and marginalized, i.e. women and minorities

don't buy watch dogs 2 with its pathetic vague middle finger directed at trump. everything about its production, sale, and profit enables the system that gave us trump. buy shit off of itch.io made by people who won't have an option for health insurance in 6 months, subscribe to patreons supporting people who might be homeless without it, give money directly to journalists who ask important questions and frame things in the political contexts that matter instead of whitelisting monster energy ads so gamespot can get half a penny when you go to their site to find out which special edition of final fantasy 15 you need to buy to get the best outfits for your waifu.
 
D

DAREALGUMMY

Member
On one hand, I want to escape from this whole political debacle when I play my games.

On the other hand, it is nice knowing that the industry is full of creators that embrace diversity.
 
AmuroChan

AmuroChan

Member
John Kowalski said:
Trump's campaign is pretty strongly neo facist. And those being asked to leave the thread are hearing it not because they're concerned about the semantics at play, but because they're arguing that this shouldn't be discussed here, even though it's related directly to the industry and to its products.
Click to expand...

His campaign was indeed that, but he's going to learn very quickly that if he wants to bring that shit into his governance, it's not going to fly and he's not going to get anywhere with it.
 
A

Anarky

Banned
This thread is a good reminder that gaming side is a garbage fire when it comes to shit like this.

Also lol so many grayed out names.
 
B

Bizzquik

Member
Drackhorn said:
Christ here we go again...
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Beartruck said:
Christ, come on. Trump threads have already buried Off topic, just keep it there.
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udivision said:
lol
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LordKasual said:
what the hell?
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RooMHM said:
He hasn t done anything yet ?
Fascism ?
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PhilipDoesMatter said:
Who said he is fascist?
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harz-marz said:
In before lock.

Sick of these Trump threads.
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Spukc said:
how about off topic ? i rather not see this in gaming
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v1ncelis said:
This. Please mods keep this in off-topic.
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Intel_89 said:
Why is offtopic a thing when I got straight up politics on my gaming board.
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As others have said, the NeoGAF GAMING thread is not the place to rant about your political concerns.

Fascist? Hyperbolic meltdown confirmed.
 
R

Roto13

Member
gamingPotato7 said:
This here, this exactly here, is why he got elected. Insulting people constantly with this fundamentally flawed rethoric that everyone that supports him is a racist xenophobic homophobe brings these type of outcomes. This is fascism, only on the left. Hating on the opposing political views and people saying whites should be exterminated. Hypocrisy much? I don't wanna get banned since I am a junior and I actually supported HIllary and think Trump is a fucking idiot. But the same echo chamber I lived in these past months, when he won and I realized how stupid I was being, it made me sick. The US needs union, it needs both sides of the political spectrum to discuss. Just keep this in off-topic
Click to expand...

You actually can't throw minorities under the bus for your own gains without being racist/sexist/homophobic/all that awful shit. People who did it should absolutely be shamed for it.
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Bgamer90 said:
Agree. This is definitely needed. No excuse considering consoles can record audio and video (as you've stated).
Click to expand...

Totally. A function to record complaint on consoles would be amazing. Going through them all would be crazy... but online games are a breeding ground.
 
A

aeolist

Banned
jacks81x said:
Maybe because that's not the reason why women voted for Trump. Many people are astounded and shocked because they think the only reason to vote Trump is if you're a racist or sexist.
Click to expand...

correction, white women voted for trump. he lost every non-white demographic group by a lot.

racial resentment was the only reliable predictor of who would vote for trump, both in the primary and the general election. he won aggrieved white people from every part of america.
 
S

Scientist Supreme!

Banned
Jawmuncher said:
They'll do their own thing like they always have done. The only time gaming has really been affected by govt is with the violence stuff awhile back. Which has died down a lot these days. Gaming has gotten better with diversity in numerous ways, and a new president won't change that.
Click to expand...
I feel like pretty naive statement. Especially with the amount recent attacks against minorities due to Trump. Hate groups in gaming like gamergate are going to feel empowered the same and it probably lead to more people leaving the industry or not being involved at all.
 
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