Ok, this is a good post.
For the rest of you, please continue to thread whine and whatnot. I am certain that it will work out in your favour.
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How can the games industry resist and push back against Trump & his fascism?
- Thread starter Lime
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For the rest of you, please continue to thread whine and whatnot. I am certain that it will work out in your favour.
yeah the other republicans who control congress did a bang-up job of standing up to trump and his cronies over the last 18 months. mitch mcconnell and paul ryan will be defying him at every turn!
afternoon delight
Member
Excellent suggestion that most companies sadly ignore already.
Many suggestions that I already completely agree with (and make me laugh). Is it cool if I put it in OP?
It still makes me depressed that this is not exclusive to games and also relates to transportation, food, infrastructure, advertising, TV, phones, computers, consoles, and so many other facets of our lives.
wolfhowwl
Banned
The space president in the next Mass Effect says that all vorcha are criminals and wants batarians on a terrorism registry. His supporters claim he just wants to make the galaxy great again.
Will I get renegade points if I support him? I mean his opponent did leave Spectres to die at the Asari embassy...
Will I get renegade points if I support him? I mean his opponent did leave Spectres to die at the Asari embassy...
not only did they make gone home free, for anyone that does buy it through itch they're donating the money to lambda legal.
D
Deleted member 74300
Unconfirmed Member
I guess Watchdogs 2 isn't enough.
potatohead
Member
I mean I don't like it either but he won, and he won fair and square.
We have to see what happens.
Partly because he can't and partly because 99% of what he said was pure rhetoric and/or made no sense.
He's already saying "we might keep some parts of Obamacare" that super evil policy apparently.
We have to see what happens.
Partly because he can't and partly because 99% of what he said was pure rhetoric and/or made no sense.
He's already saying "we might keep some parts of Obamacare" that super evil policy apparently.
Your workload must've quadrupled as soon as Trump became POTUS.
Thank you for making this topic. Games are part of culture, and there is such a thing as a public consciousness that they have the power to influence.
I don't think anyone is obligated to make anything creative that tackles social justice, but I urge any dev that has the option to go for it. Some have already mentioned the industry actions companies can take outside of the content of the games themselves. I'm not well versed enough to tackle that issue so I'll stick to the creative end.
Here are a couple of things devs making games that have narratives and characters can do:
- Keep working on upping the diversity. Race, religion, orientation, genders, all of it. Double down on it now that marginalized people are going to feel even more unsafe. If a character doesn't HAVE to be white straight male "default" then go for something else.
- Promote teamwork. I know combat is one of the most common gameplay elements so I'm not saying to get rid of violence. Rather, see if you can frame the action in a way that doesn't promote harmful or hateful tendencies. I think a good way to do that is to tell stories and make gameplay that has people working together.
- Actually tell marginalized people's stories from their perspective if you're setting a game irl.
- Always always always ask yourself if a certain creative decision will help. Will it promote something harmful? Does it imply something alienating to those who are hurting in our current times?
I do not advocate for any censorship, and I don't want anyone to water down their point of view. Rather I urge you to always question your perspective and also question what you're impying with the art you're creating.
Obviously, there are only certain games that these apply to. These are not exhaustive and very broad rules of thumb. I come from the perspective that games are culture and culture influences people, especially kids. Culture has the power to subconsciously make the privileged "otherize" minorities in their mind and to make the marginalized feel like they don't belong. In a country where the president stands for values that already make people feel unsafe, we need to work double time on all fronts to make sure we're creating a culture that doesn't do any of the aforementioned negative things.
Lastly, for those of you decrying the existence of this thread, please try to understand what's at stake here for a lot of us. I'm a racial minority who is very happy this thread was made here. Games are part of the culture, so there is absolutely space here in Games Discussion to discuss big things going on in society at large and their relationship to gaming. Thank you for your understanding.
I don't think anyone is obligated to make anything creative that tackles social justice, but I urge any dev that has the option to go for it. Some have already mentioned the industry actions companies can take outside of the content of the games themselves. I'm not well versed enough to tackle that issue so I'll stick to the creative end.
Here are a couple of things devs making games that have narratives and characters can do:
- Keep working on upping the diversity. Race, religion, orientation, genders, all of it. Double down on it now that marginalized people are going to feel even more unsafe. If a character doesn't HAVE to be white straight male "default" then go for something else.
- Promote teamwork. I know combat is one of the most common gameplay elements so I'm not saying to get rid of violence. Rather, see if you can frame the action in a way that doesn't promote harmful or hateful tendencies. I think a good way to do that is to tell stories and make gameplay that has people working together.
- Actually tell marginalized people's stories from their perspective if you're setting a game irl.
- Always always always ask yourself if a certain creative decision will help. Will it promote something harmful? Does it imply something alienating to those who are hurting in our current times?
I do not advocate for any censorship, and I don't want anyone to water down their point of view. Rather I urge you to always question your perspective and also question what you're impying with the art you're creating.
Obviously, there are only certain games that these apply to. These are not exhaustive and very broad rules of thumb. I come from the perspective that games are culture and culture influences people, especially kids. Culture has the power to subconsciously make the privileged "otherize" minorities in their mind and to make the marginalized feel like they don't belong. In a country where the president stands for values that already make people feel unsafe, we need to work double time on all fronts to make sure we're creating a culture that doesn't do any of the aforementioned negative things.
Lastly, for those of you decrying the existence of this thread, please try to understand what's at stake here for a lot of us. I'm a racial minority who is very happy this thread was made here. Games are part of the culture, so there is absolutely space here in Games Discussion to discuss big things going on in society at large and their relationship to gaming. Thank you for your understanding.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
My inclination is that art is a useful outlet for catharsis and morale but rarely as an act of politics per se. Of course art is political, naturally, but in terms of connecting art to formal acts of politics to changes in outcomes, no, I don't think so. The representation debate is so potent for me precisely because it is not about formal politics, it's about individual engagement with work and how people feel about themselves. I think art matters for how we consider ourselves in the world. Also, it's not to say that there isn't value in telling personal stories even if they are politically inert. If (let's be honest: when) DACA ends, I think there is value in telling journalistic or artistic takes on the undocumented and young. I just don't think such takes prevent deportation.
I feel the same way about, say, moral boycotts of companies. If you don't want conflict diamonds, don't buy them. If you want to buy union-made clothes, do so. If you want to avoid homophobic donations, don't eat Chic-fil-A, etc. But I think you have to do those things based on your own conscience, rather than the belief that that change will actually ripple through formal politics. The latter is unlikely and counterproductive.
Jonas Kyratzes (The Sea Will Claim Everything, Talos Principle)--who if memory serves me correctly is Greek and socialist and politically active--wrote about this yesterday:
http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2016/11/12/art-is-not-politics/
Here's a one-tweet summary of it:
I think his angle is more revolutionary than mine, in the sense that he seems to be refuting the idea that art is enough and angry that people want to mobilize through art rather than through formal organization and participation in the process. I think people gain great value in mobilizing through art, not because it affects change, but because it helps them cope with the situation they find themselves in.
But I think if you want to resist politics you disagree with, the best way to do so is through formal politics. Take back city councils, state houses, governorships, the house, and senate, work on ballot initiatives, organize a union, etc.
I feel the same way about, say, moral boycotts of companies. If you don't want conflict diamonds, don't buy them. If you want to buy union-made clothes, do so. If you want to avoid homophobic donations, don't eat Chic-fil-A, etc. But I think you have to do those things based on your own conscience, rather than the belief that that change will actually ripple through formal politics. The latter is unlikely and counterproductive.
Jonas Kyratzes (The Sea Will Claim Everything, Talos Principle)--who if memory serves me correctly is Greek and socialist and politically active--wrote about this yesterday:
http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2016/11/12/art-is-not-politics/
Here's a one-tweet summary of it:
I think his angle is more revolutionary than mine, in the sense that he seems to be refuting the idea that art is enough and angry that people want to mobilize through art rather than through formal organization and participation in the process. I think people gain great value in mobilizing through art, not because it affects change, but because it helps them cope with the situation they find themselves in.
But I think if you want to resist politics you disagree with, the best way to do so is through formal politics. Take back city councils, state houses, governorships, the house, and senate, work on ballot initiatives, organize a union, etc.
if you like.
and yes, it applies everywhere. this whole thing is really making me reevaluate how and where i spend my time and money.
I fully expect this to be an actual thing for the sequel of andromeda where i assume an andromeda council will be built to mirror the one in the original trilogy and they will totally have an space trump.
To bad Asaris are all female, cause that's they perfect race for someone with trump like beliefs but not for a trump simile.
You. I like you.
It's a joke, he won't even really run
It's a joke, he won't make it pat the first few round of the primary
It's a joke, he won't get the nom from the GOP
It's a joke, he is going to drop before the end of his campaign
It's a joke, all polls give Hillary winning, I don't need to vote, do I?
...
It' a joke, he won't be able to do 80% of what he said
PsihoPerihelion
Member
This industry is quite diverse, as far as I know. Keep it like that and improve from there.
blackjaw
Banned
Today, 06:18 PM, Post #16
The sure did!
blackjaw
Banned
Today, 06:18 PM, Post #16
The sure did!
AmuroChan
Member
You're probably right about the ignorance, but the reality is that most voters don't look at the big picture so to speak. They look at the issue(s) that is impacting their lives the most. I know my in-laws voted for Trump. They are minority legal immigrants. Based on their demographics, there's no way they should be voting for Trump right? But they voted for him because they own a small business and the taxes and the ACA are draining them dry to the point where they've had to downsize and lay off half their employees just to get by. Their business which they've owned for 20+ years is their American dream. They are in their 60's. They just want to make enough so they can retire. Social issues like racism and sexism are the furthest things from their minds right now, even though they've been the recipient of racial discrimination many times before.
michaelius
Banned
Actually did anyone ever study what consoles are most popular among voters of different parties ?
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
SuperDowns
Banned
Double post.
chillybright
Banned
By making every single Tyranny leader in every game a Ginger-haired foul mouth orange cookie.
atomic moth
Member
I would say probably go out and vote in local elections instead of making jokes on social media outlets. Vote again in two years and then four. Maybe not invest too much into the opinions of kids playing video games.
WrenchNinja
Member
This comic is on point. So fucking sick of this bullshit telling people to stop fighting back.How is pushing back against fascism undermining the results of a democratic election? Being neutral in the face of oppression means we side with the oppressors.
Also,
Haha right? I didn't know it was so small when embedded
Somehow this is Bish's fault, I know it.
AmuroChan
Member
What legislation has he passed in the last 18 months? He ran a populist campaign and it worked with the people. That's not how you do things once you're in office. Campaigning and governance are two very different things. If you think he's going to be able to pass a bill to deport tens of millions of illegal immigrants from the US, I got a piece of land I want to sell to you.
these are just the ones that haven't figured out the best way to take over is present their abhorrent views with a patina of civility and bait good people into responding with enough anger to get them banned.
we're going through a process of selective pressure, it's just accelerated right now because the 4chan kiddy fascists feel emboldened and think they can just run amok. not quite yet, guys, but you'll get there.
"Martyring" themselves for alt-right and hate groups.
Because theres no sense in having an account here any longer when even left-leaning posters are banned for wanting others to come come to their sense and stop the hyperbole.
Off topic is a mess of "Trump death squads" and all other kinds of posts which would have been ridiculed off this forum. If you do that now, you're banned.
Some people have burner accounts just for this. Then they can go to Neofag and rant about how we're all dirty libtards who are no better than the real bigots and racists.
he killed TPP without holding office. if you think he can't get congressional republicans to abandon the principles they pretend to hold you're naive.
My inclination is that art is a useful outlet for catharsis and morale but rarely as an act of politics per se. Of course art is political, naturally, but in terms of connecting art to formal acts of politics to changes in outcomes, no, I don't think so. The representation debate is so potent for me precisely because it is not about formal politics, it's about individual engagement with work and how people feel about themselves. I think art matters for how we consider ourselves in the world. Also, it's not to say that there isn't value in telling personal stories even if they are politically inert. If (let's be honest: when) DACA ends, I think there is value in telling journalistic or artistic takes on the undocumented and young. I just don't think such takes prevent deportation.
I feel the same way about, say, moral boycotts of companies. If you don't want conflict diamonds, don't buy them. If you want to buy union-made clothes, do so. If you want to avoid homophobic donations, don't eat Chic-fil-A, etc. But I think you have to do those things based on your own conscience, rather than the belief that that change will actually ripple through formal politics. The latter is unlikely and counterproductive.
Jonas Kyratzes (The Sea Will Claim Everything, Talos Principle)--who if memory serves me correctly is Greek and socialist and politically active--wrote about this yesterday:
http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2016/11/12/art-is-not-politics/
Here's a one-tweet summary of it:
I think his angle is more revolutionary than mine, in the sense that he seems to be refuting the idea that art is enough and angry that people want to mobilize through art rather than through formal organization and participation in the process. I think people gain great value in mobilizing through art, not because it affects change, but because it helps them cope with the situation they find themselves in.
But I think if you want to resist politics you disagree with, the best way to do so is through formal politics. Take back city councils, state houses, governorships, the house, and senate, work on ballot initiatives, organize a union, etc.
Thank you for this, Stumpokapow. I haven't read the article yet, so excuse/ignore me if it's answered in it, but I guess it's so difficult to know where to start when the symptoms of an unjust society is reflected in the art that we/I consume. When art/entertainment generally reproduces the unjust affairs or doesn't take a stand on it, I'm concerned with how ideology gets normalized and accepted in the public abroad. How does the formal politics influence such reproductions of ideology one disagrees with? Is there a causal relationship between formal politics and art? What do media activists and scholars gain by analyzing and working against unjust ideology? Is it all for naught?
Anyway, thanks, I'm going to read this Jonas Kyratzes when I have time later tonight, that's for sure. I hope it's okay I link it in the OP.
Not an answer to the OP's question, just an observation I wanted to share.
Anyone who would have made this thread exchanging Trump for Clinton would've been laughed off. There's hope a strong civil opposition will hold up their morals and agenda against trumps values while she could've sat in the attic counting money from sponsors making sure with not even a hint of that kind of disapproval that everything goes on as smoothly as the financial top dogs of the world want it to.
It might hurt and I'd rather it wouldn't be necessary, but since the fear is so outrageously, but justifiedly, high, it may hold longer than the average scandal and for the overall state of the world it might be better to have that fight now than when it's even later.
There never was a chance for the people if they don't shed the political paralysis and stand up for themselves.
Not saying trump will help them, but he will make far more people stand up than if it wasn't him.
I slowly start gaining hope that something good might come off trump, though not from him.
Anyone who would have made this thread exchanging Trump for Clinton would've been laughed off. There's hope a strong civil opposition will hold up their morals and agenda against trumps values while she could've sat in the attic counting money from sponsors making sure with not even a hint of that kind of disapproval that everything goes on as smoothly as the financial top dogs of the world want it to.
It might hurt and I'd rather it wouldn't be necessary, but since the fear is so outrageously, but justifiedly, high, it may hold longer than the average scandal and for the overall state of the world it might be better to have that fight now than when it's even later.
There never was a chance for the people if they don't shed the political paralysis and stand up for themselves.
Not saying trump will help them, but he will make far more people stand up than if it wasn't him.
I slowly start gaining hope that something good might come off trump, though not from him.
What hyperbole though? People have recently experienced hate due to recent events and game companies need to make sure that their (online) communities don't see a rise in this form of hate or else their communities will go down in number.
I hate Trump with a passion, but I'm sad to see people in this thread still missing the point about what's going on with this wave and the form of political protest going around the world. Brexit and Trump.., this is only the start, and we need more common sense rather than more knee-jerk extremism to take the point and make something good out of it. If you don't let people take part in shaping the future, if you don't let people take part in owning what's right and wrong, there's going to be a lot worse than Trump coming our way.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Problem is that this has nothing to do with politics but breaking the TOS. Shit-posting/ thread whining is not allowed. No matter what kotakuinaction says.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
It doesn't matter what their views are. It is a discussion that people should be having. People who have been banned had no interest in the topic and chose to ignore it and demanded it to be shut down. Not only is it against the rules to post about it being shut down (instead of PMing a mod) it doesn't create a healthy discussion of the topic.
What hyperbole?
styl3s
Member
People have been fighting for Diversity since before Trump was president and will continue to do so once he's out of office and although i welcome and continue yelling at the top of my lungs we need more diversity in games. Having diversity isn't a push back towards Trump that's just called progress, progress that the industry has been lacking for over 30 fucking years.
As long as we continue to be progressive in areas that need it, and fight the opposition of hate- we can stand together and push for the equality deserved. They expect the fight to be over, but the fight is simply just beginning and is going to be pushed harder and harder.
For the games industry, I don't really know. Creating games for everyone could be a start. Pushing more people to take part in the industry- both in race and gender- could be a good start too. Really, taking the ideas that gamergate hates, rejecting them, and creating games that people want to play with a variety of characters and stories without feeling as though these games are pandering.
For the games industry, I don't really know. Creating games for everyone could be a start. Pushing more people to take part in the industry- both in race and gender- could be a good start too. Really, taking the ideas that gamergate hates, rejecting them, and creating games that people want to play with a variety of characters and stories without feeling as though these games are pandering.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
"Let's just do nothing and hope that he lied to everybody all the time. All those vile things he said? All those people he insulted? He just said that to get more votes lol!"
I share Christoph Waltz' view on the situation (only in German, sorry)
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154590575561878&id=182146851877
E.T. had it right. That's all we need to know. Otherwise said as "Don't be a dick".
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=224103399#post224103399
Theres tons of these hyperbolic posts in Off Topic. Its become so annoying to read that. I've been staying in the Gaming side, hoping it would die down because its just ridiculous. Its frankly embarrassing to be on this forum when these posts aren't being called out.
The extreme right and the extreme left are both ridiculous and one of those sides has a death grip on Neogaf right now for some reason. We've always been left-leaning, but just because our guy lost, there are now witch hunts for anyone who doesn't espouse far left ideals. It's truly sad that the forum is going the way it is. People have to walk on egg shells and put in so many qualifiers "I'm not X, I voted for X" just so some drive by shit poster doesn't ask them "Did you X! I bet you did! How dare you!" and then be dog piled on based only on the accusation.
I remember when Obama was elected and we all made fun of the crazy right wing posts. Now the shoe is on the other foot and we are the hyperbolic nuts. Anyone asking for unity and reason is struck down.
Movalpolos
Banned
Steam should do their part (and PC gamers in general) to expose and expunge all forms of racism that thrives on that platform. It's truly disgusting how much of that shit exists there and one of the reasons PC is not my platform for MP.
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