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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE

M

Moonlight

Banned
Alisa with that haircut tells me Falcom was aiming to establish twin-tails as a signature for leading ladies in Kiseki, lol.

Sort of gives me hope Falcom isn't ready to shy away from having another female protagonist, too. Not too much hope, of course, but it's nice to imagine them discussing it over Calvard.

Though thinking on it, glad they went in the direction they did for the most part. Visually, anyways. They're a little too... stylized? It's actually amazing how much a couple revisions to Rean's original design did to soften up a design that initially gives some serious edgelord vibes.
 
B

Bladelord Loewe

Neo Member
Psxphile said:
Silly, you've already played them in FC/SC. Time for new characters like
Really-Good-At-Arts-Guy
and
Olivert's-Sister-From-Another-Mother
.
Click to expand...

I mean if they are going to dangle
Claire
in front of us like she's going to be part of the main cast and then take her away, I don't see why not let us play as them, even temporarily.

Hey, did you also forget that
Mueller
was only playable for basically the final battles of the game? I would personally rather use them in battle to win (or lose in this case, then have to retreat) than have to be rescued for the 8th time. Wouldn't you agree?

Oh well, always hope for CS3!
 
P

Psxphile

Member
Hm, new page. Don't mind me, just rehosting and reposting localized The 3rd pics for absolutely no raisin:

oDDDj1Y.png

csKkutt.jpg

v3OUx7J.jpg

IAeInXz.jpg
Click to expand...

*heavy breathing*
 
M

Moonlight

Banned
It's sort of dawning on me that this will be a Trails in the Sky with Estelle just being another party member. I associate her too deeply with the cast of characters.
 
N

Nyoro SF

Member
PK Gaming said:
Alisa with a sword and Rean with a gun... yep, she was definitely supposed to be the main protagonist. They probably changed protagonists when they realized how profitable a male protagonist was. After all, you can't run the waifu game without a guy for otaku's to self insert into.

Honestly don't know how I feel about it. I like Rean, but Alisa... Having her and him paired up in a Joshua/Estelle dynamic definitely would have be interesting.

Hmm...
Click to expand...

I think it would have been a waste if they just retreaded Estelle and Joshua again. At least I would be disappointed if they did that.

Judging by the prototype expressions, looks like Alisa has pretty much the same personality type but Rean definitely looks cooler. Makes sense, you can't give a guy with a pistol or dual pistols a lame personality, it's just not possible.

Plus it would be kind of weird if (CS1 spoilers)
Alisa went all Oni on us
, but then again, maybe it would be awesome, it's pretty rare to see that sort of ability given to a girl instead of a guy in games.

Then again if you look at CS1 and reverse their roles it actually makes a lot more sense given how much more Alisa's family and friends are involved in the main story. It's almost more of her story than it is Rean's at times. I think in the end I would've preferred if Alisa was the main character, not gonna deny that. Not that it would "fix" the game or anything, I just think it would've been more interesting for me.

Moonlight said:
Alisa with that haircut tells me Falcom was aiming to establish twin-tails as a signature for leading ladies in Kiseki, lol.

Sort of gives me hope Falcom isn't ready to shy away from having another female protagonist, too. Not too much hope, of course, but it's nice to imagine them discussing it over Calvard.

Though thinking on it, glad they went in the direction they did for the most part. Visually, anyways. They're a little too... stylized? It's actually amazing how much a couple revisions to Rean's original design did to soften up a design that initially gives some serious edgelord vibes.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm in the minority of preferring the stylish gunslinging edgelord Rean who can't help but fall for the princess-like Alisa wearing that awesome looking shoulder...decoration. Alisa's twintails in the release version are seriously bad looking compared to classic twintail designs though, they're barely twintails! I do not approve of this nerf! Make twintails great again...
 
P

Psxphile

Member
Proto-Rean was probably
proto-Crow
too, with a similar personality and background. Should probably expect
a betrayal
from that guy eventually.

Alisa dodged a bullet.
 
S

Scrooge McDuck

Member
Psxphile said:
Proto-Rean was probably
proto-Crow
too, with a similar personality and background. Should probably expect
a betrayal
from that guy eventually.

Alisa dodged a bullet.
Click to expand...

That sounds kinda interesting, actually.

[Sky SC and Cold Steel II Spoiler]
You grow complacent and expect that he'd go the way Joshua did, then bam he dies IMA WAKARE NO TOKI
 
N

Nightengale

Member
Psxphile said:
Proto-Rean was probably
proto-Crow
too, with a similar personality and background. Should probably expect
a betrayal
from that guy eventually.

Alisa dodged a bullet.
Click to expand...

Hmm...

Might explain a lot about why they didn't follow through with this concept sinc it sounds too similar to FC and SC.
 
P

preta

Member
Psxphile said:
Proto-Rean was probably
proto-Crow
too, with a similar personality and background. Should probably expect
a betrayal
from that guy eventually.

Alisa dodged a bullet.
Click to expand...

Actually,
__Crow__
's character and arc were already planned by the time of SC's development. The original plan was to start the Erebonia arc after SC, but Falcom realized they needed to build it up more, so they decided to do the Crossbell arc first. Then they realized they needed to lead into that by doing 3rd.
 
B

Bladelord Loewe

Neo Member
Moonlight said:
It's sort of dawning on me that this will be a Trails in the Sky with Estelle just being another party member. I associate her too deeply with the cast of characters.
Click to expand...

With the way SC ended,
Kevin Graham to me stood out a lot. All along we thought was just this fun loving, caring, helpful goofball of a character, is actually a relentless elite of the Gralsritters. That line he mentioned about Joshua being lucky he is able to get away from it all really stuck with me. Personally I can't wait to finally be able to play as him, learn about his past and get to explore more of who he really is, along with the pretty nun.
 
N

Nyoro SF

Member
Psxphile said:
Proto-Rean was probably
proto-Crow
too, with a similar personality and background. Should probably expect
a betrayal
from that guy eventually.

Alisa dodged a bullet.
Click to expand...

Yo... spoiled rich girl Alisa teaming up with playboy gambling Rean? Sign me up Kondo.
 
P

Psxphile

Member
preta said:
Actually,
__Crow__
's character and arc were already planned by the time of SC's development. The original plan was to start the Erebonia arc after SC, but Falcom realized they needed to build it up more, so they decided to do the Crossbell arc first. Then they realized they needed to lead into that by doing 3rd.
Click to expand...

And would have been introduced via proto-Rean, gotcha.
 
G

Gu4n

Member
Moonlight said:
It's sort of dawning on me that this will be a Trails in the Sky with Estelle just being another party member. I associate her too deeply with the cast of characters.
Click to expand...
I think I know what you mean. Moving from SC to The 3rd invoked feelings of 'M-my Estelle', and then moving on to Zero triggered 'M-my precious cast of Liberl characters', followed by 'Who is Class VII, where are my precious Crossbell characters'.
 
G

Gu4n

Member
While data mining, I found that Beta Alisa is actually still in the game files indicated as character 999.

JTe8VTG.png
Click to expand...


On the topic of Cold Steel's development, I recently digged through its development/debug files (which are still in the game) to learn more about the game's development. It was a mighty interesting trip. Findings have been added to the the Kiseki Wiki in case anyone's interested.
640
640
Click to expand...
 
P

Psxphile

Member
Alisa's design seems to suggest a more noble upbringing than her current one. I wonder if she too would have been a commoner in sheep's clothing.

EDIT: well, I guess that's technically true even now
 
D

duckroll

Member
Wow, they totally salvaged Laura's design by changing her terrible hair, but Alisa got fucking ~destroyed~ from her prototype design. Twintail noble lead character with orbal sword >>>>>>>>>>> whatever garbage children friend party member we got.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
duckroll said:
Wow, they totally salvaged Laura's design by changing her terrible hair, but Alisa got fucking ~destroyed~ from her prototype design. Twintail noble lead character with orbal sword >>>>>>>>>>> whatever garbage children friend party member we got.
Click to expand...

Alisa sucks now, but that pigtail look is awful. :p
 
H

Holundrian

Unconfirmed Member
I'm not sure if I'm glad they changed the uniforms or sad.

On one hand I kinda like the matador touch on the other hand it just doesn't scream school uniform to me.
 
S

Shahed

Member
Maybe if Alisa was the main character of Cold Steel I'd actually like her more and the games wouldn't be plagued with all this harem nonsense
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
K

Korigama

Member
Wow, all of these prototype details are really interesting stuff. Though I was curious as to what Laura would look like with her hair down, I do find it difficult to picture her without the ponytail. Sword-wielding Alisa with the bigger pigtails and the epaulette, with Rean being a gunner probably more akin to Crow, could've been fun, even more so if their roles were switched and she were the lead instead, being the one to have
Ogre power and Valimar
included (I say this as someone who already liked Alisa, and Rean to a lesser extent).
 
K

Korigama

Member
Maiar_m said:
Seeing Easy Allies' Ben Moore play Trails of Cold Steel reminded me I had Trails in the Sky on my vita and hadn't finished it. Cold Steel sort of looks better combat-wise (but it might just be my memory playing tricks on me). Should I complete Trails in the Sky 1 & 2 though? Does it matter?
Click to expand...
Cold Steel is much better in respect to combat, especially CS II. That said, yes, you should still finish Trails in the Sky FC and SC.
 
P

preta

Member
Maiar_m said:
Seeing Easy Allies' Ben Moore play Trails of Cold Steel reminded me I had Trails in the Sky on my vita and hadn't finished it. Cold Steel sort of looks better combat-wise (but it might just be my memory playing tricks on me). Should I complete Trails in the Sky 1 & 2 though? Does it matter?
Click to expand...

Yes, Cold Steel has better combat (but worse auxiliary systems), and yes, you should finish Sky FC and SC before playing it if possible.
 
G

Glitter and Gold

Banned
Laura looks way older than she should in prototype. lol

I like final version Alisa over Beta. Beta version looks too similar to Estelle to me. And I always really liked the contrast between her red eyes and blonde hair.

Most interesting thing about Beta Rean is that he's using an orbal handgun considering how important Hachiyou ended up being to his character and story in the final version.

(Also interesting that they ended up
giving Claire that weapon
in CS considering the implications of their relationship)
 
N

Nyoro SF

Member
Glitter and Gold said:
Laura looks way older than she should in prototype. lol

I like final version Alisa over Beta. Beta version looks too similar to Estelle to me. And I always really liked the contrast between her red eyes and blonde hair.

Most interesting thing about Beta Rean is that he's using an orbal handgun considering how important Hachiyou ended up being to his character and story in the final version
Click to expand...

Hm... I can't agree, beta Alisa and Estelle don't look anything alike. From hair to face to fashion.

While Eight Leaves is a big part of Rean's character, it has almost no impact on the overall story. So it's something that's easy to swap in and out as a characteristic. Maybe they wanted to incorporate that swordsmanship in the game somehow but couldn't make it work with Alisa's character type so they decided to do some rearranging.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Cold Steel does have improved combat mechanics, but the balance is so out of whack that I don't know if I enjoyed the combat more than in TitS. The lack of challenge was a real problem. Maybe my fault for picking Normal (as per advice in this thread :p), but Normal mode in TitS still had some decent challenges at least.
 
G

Glitter and Gold

Banned
Just noticed the Rean and Alisa have holsters for their weapons on their character models. I think that's a pretty cool detail I wish the characters had in the final game.

I guess it'd be hard for some characters though where they made no sense. lol

Nyoro SF said:
Hm... I can't agree, beta Alisa and Estelle don't look anything alike. From hair to face to fashion.
Click to expand...

She just looks like more of a tomboy to me based on those poses and expressions. and the series already has it's twin tailed tomboy.
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
Those unis look WAAAAAAY better than what we got. Epaulettes give off a more militaristic vibe too.

I wonder if some of their dna ended up in chloe and whatshisface from akatsuki.

And yeah, twintails went from the sign of the childish and meek to the hairdos of assbeating heroes after so much Alicia and Estelle. Antagonists should be quaking in their boots seeing hair on both sides of some girls head rounding the corner of their base lol.
 
P

Psxphile

Member
Laura's existence probably erased the need to have a noble tomboy sword-wielder as the main lead. Though it would have been interesting to see them clash, beta Laura has the look of someone who's a bit more prideful about being a noblewoman than her final iteration. Basically female Jusis. I guess that's why she was changed to be a little more down-to-earth and approachable in design and mannerisms.
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
Random SC side-quest question:
Did anyone ever check in CS or CS2 for that girl from Jenis that had the arranged marriage meeting with the Erebonian noble?

I never thought to look for her in CS or CS2, but maybe she was in there.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Psxphile said:
Proto-Rean was probably
proto-Crow
too, with a similar personality and background. Should probably expect
a betrayal
from that guy eventually.

Alisa dodged a bullet.
Click to expand...
The extreme desire to get Crow back actually makes more sense if it's a rewrite from this initial concept.

Rean and Crow's friendship wasn't sold to me until AFTER his betrayal, when it's constantly being shoved in your face.
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
Thoraxes said:
Random SC side-quest question:
Did anyone ever check in CS or CS2 for that girl from Jenis that had the arranged marriage meeting with the Erebonian noble?

I never thought to look for her in CS or CS2, but maybe she was in there.
Click to expand...

Nope, Felicity is not present in either CS or CS2 at all.
 
P

Psxphile

Member
Thoraxes said:
Random SC side-quest question:
Did anyone ever check in CS or CS2 for that girl from Jenis that had the arranged marriage meeting with the Erebonian noble?

I never thought to look for her in CS or CS2, but maybe she was in there.
Click to expand...

You mean Felicity (and her handmaiden Reina)? I'm sure I would have noticed if she was present or talked about in any of the NPC dialogues I've read through (read: a lot). Very few people ever bring up Liberl let alone Jenis Academy.

I *do* know Armand and Elie (the Rolent couple) pop up in Zero.
 
N

Nyoro SF

Member
SolVanderlyn said:
The extreme desire to get Crow back actually makes more sense if it's a rewrite from this initial concept.

Rean and Crow's friendship wasn't sold to me until AFTER his betrayal, when it's constantly being shoved in your face.
Click to expand...

(MAJOR SKY AND STEEL SPOILERS)
Thinking about it now, Crow doesn't feel remorseful for his bad actions nor is he trying to make up for past sins/mistakes/manipulations... so Steel and Sky don't really have the same story, even though it's a similar concept of trying to rescue a friend. In the end Joshua and Crow are pretty different from one another.

If Rean was just Crow originally then I think I would've liked that. Crow is too behind the scenes in CS1, and it makes his reveal at the end not nearly as impactful, and makes the pursuit of him in CS2 really confusing at points. Maybe they thought that a betrayal from within Class VII directly would be too cliche (though they relied on this by randomly throwing Crow into Class VII with you despite adulations of how special it was to be selected for Class VII) and having a well-meaning girl rescuing a truant bad guy from himself would be too much of a harkening back to Sky.

In the end I guess it was tough to make a lot of these choices. Writing a story is hard. Maybe there shouldn't have been a betrayal and rescue attempt plot in the first place. Oh well.
 
B

BlueDogAnchorite

Member
DXLelouch153 said:
she gets better imo
also youll learn to love Ms CP Battery
Click to expand...

Morrigan Stark said:
I found her relationship with her mother to be potentially interesting, but otherwise agreed. Also I found her to be the least useful party member. She sucks, probably my least favourite member of class VII after [chapter 5 spoilers]
Millium
.
Click to expand...

Holundrian said:
Honestly she becomes a lot better during the cold steel games. That said it took all of Cold Steel II for me to come around on how cool she actually is when she totally gets away from the tropes.

Alisa CSII characterization spoiler(nothing about her story more like a trait she showcases)
What made me come around to her in CSII are all the scenes where she's basically letting her inner mechanic out. I hope that stuff goes somewhere with her. I'd like to see her become an amazing engineer.
Click to expand...

PK Gaming said:
Believe in Miss CP Battery.

She has her moments in the later chapters, especially chapter 6.
Click to expand...


Will keep an open mind. :p
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Nope, Felicity is not present in either CS or CS2 at all.
Click to expand...

Psxphile said:
You mean Felicity (and her handmaiden Reina)? I'm sure I would have noticed if she was present or talked about in any of the NPC dialogues I've read through (read: a lot). Very few people ever bring up Liberl let alone Jenis Academy.

I *do* know Armand and Elie (the Rolent couple) pop up in Zero.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks for the info both of you! It was just a random thought that hit me, so I appreciate you guys taking the time to answer.
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
On further thought, this explains why Alisa is pushed so much despite slinking. CS2 ending spoilers
Although, does puts us back to the "are they destined to reunite and actually become an item or was it off the table with trend-chasing?" question. Sigh.

SolVanderlyn said:
The extreme desire to get Crow back actually makes more sense if it's a rewrite from this initial concept.

Rean and Crow's friendship wasn't sold to me until AFTER his betrayal, when it's constantly being shoved in your face.
Click to expand...

It does make that CS2 ending spoilers
joke about him dressing up as Crow in CS3 funny in retrospect heh.
 
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