Customizing the gpu to handle latency, bandwidth, and memory extremely more than a basic model is way better for graphics than fp16 I would bet. How's fp16 working for the switch?
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Inside the Scorpio Engine: the processor architecture deep dive
- Thread starter Space_nut
- Start date
Customizing the gpu to handle latency, bandwidth, and memory extremely more than a basic model is way better for graphics than fp16 I would bet. How's fp16 working for the switch?
It was a blessing in disguise. They are doing everything right in a big way with the design of this system.
Customizing the gpu to handle latency, bandwidth, and memory extremely more than a basic model is way better for graphics than fp16 I would bet. How's fp16 working for the switch?
FP16 is probably completely integral to the Switch actually being a viable product. Surely you can accept that it's a pity Scorpio doesn't have this innovation that is in the Pro? Or is that outside the narrative you want to push?
dr_rus
Member
Customizing the gpu to handle latency, bandwidth, and memory extremely more than a basic model is way better for graphics than fp16 I would bet. How's fp16 working for the switch?
Not sure what you're asking really. FP16 works just fine in all modern mobile GPUs, including X1 in Switch.
The benefits of FP16 in a large screen home environment are a bit questionable though, that's true. There are stuff where it can be used but the amount of average overall gain from it is decidedly on the lower side. With MS packing 6TF of FP32 they might have thought that double speed FP16 just doesn't worth it.
This however leaves Scorpio as the sole modern home platform which doesn't support it. Even PC Vega cards will have it soon.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
3rd console curse does wonders to a companies hubris levels.
Do you have a problem with facts?
I am sure it will get the unlock fps patch, but, man, DS3 relevance is dying with this year.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
While I'm sure it (probably) won't hurt Scorpio, it is interesting to see it doesn't support that feature, when PS4 Pro does and upcoming Vega GPU's will have it too.
geordiemp
Member
You have to admit, your FP16 commentary is almost as legendary as Jeff Rigby and 4K blu ray.
You must have you tongue in cheek by now.
dr_rus
Member
It most certainly won't hurt Scorpio simply because it has enough FP32 power to still be faster on code which is optimized for FP16x2 of Neo.
This is a bit of a missed opportunity for AMD though as with Scorpio omitting double rate FP16 there's less incentive for game developers to optimize for it and thus there will be less games on PC taking advantage of this feature on Vega. This is especially true for Xbox Play Anywhere titles.
Liabe Brave
Member
Yes, this is a very good approach. It's why Sony did that with the Pro.
You are correct, it has not been patched.
But customizing the GPU to handle latency, bandwidth, and memory much better, and adding support for packed FP16 is better still. Pro has all those things, which might in some cases reduce the visible difference Scorpio's power advantage will give. Microsoft doesn't need RPM, but it's strange that they excluded it.
But not by much. Scorpio has 43% more TFLOPS. The real-world comparison that's been floating around is 35% increase using packed FP16. That would leave a much smaller gap in power than I think people are expecting. Even engines that got less of a boost from RPM still could start to muddle what Microsoft hopes to be a clear-cut graphical advantage.
Not saying it's a negative but people who think fp16 makes a gpu twice as strong may be disappointed. I have a switch and it's not close to double the gpu power it has. It's more inline with the 400gflops it's rated at. I'm sure fp16 can help with some things but doubt it's any more helpful then the one's I listed.
Lol From didn't even patch Bloodborne for Pro, what makes you think they'll patch DS3 for Scorpio
Actually pro's upgrades to latency, bandwidth, and memory isn't much better than base ps4. Pro is mostly the same hardware as ps4 but doubled the gpu CUs and some tweaks. Also whose to say the Vega features in Scorpio aren't in pro?
They probably have some features pro isn't using.
SEGAvangelist
Member
FP16 is the new secret sauce.
Money?
Yeah, real important expense for Microsoft there. Patching up a two-year old title with barely any real presence anymore.
They need to look forward, not back.
Nobody is going to go that far. However I do expect the term to show up a lot more often now.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I hope Sunset get's the 1080p/60fps treatment. It's a great game and could pull some new sales in. Especially for people who buy the Scorpio as their first Xbox this gen.
Hope it's that and not Ryse
Hope it's that and not Ryse
If enough fans want it, it'll get done.
Scorpio is forwards and backwards compatible. Phil lives outside of time.
dr_rus
Member
I've heard different figures, and 35% among them is on the higher side of possible gain. I bet that it would be less on pratice, around 15-20%. A lot is riding on how far these optimizations will go, and with Neo being the only platform where they matter (Switch is unlikely to be a target for multiplatform development and PCs are dominated by NV cards without FP16x2) I don't expect that many developers will put a lot of effort into it. We'll see I guess.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
They did patch Dark Souls 3 for Pro recently though, so I guess they might patch the Scorpio version.
By who? I think MS would be better off trying to help From get the next game running nicely.
Tripolygon
Banned
Name at least 2 of those features.
dragonelite
Member
Is that 35% increase coming from that dice presentation, wasn't that from a part in their checkerboard implementation. So its a small part in their algorithm that got a 35% increase? Which again is a small part in their complete rendering pipeline.
KainXVIII
Member
If its not Bloodborne 2 of course
Tripolygon
Banned
This is literally the same article as before. There is nothing in this article that is new.
Backfoggen
Banned
1440p 25fps confirmed.
3rdamention
Member
I am just curious as to how many developers are going to go back to their older Xbox One games and work on them to run on Scorpio in 4k. The most basic thing being upgrading all the textures to 4k to run at native 4k. They keep talking about how Scorpio can run Xbox One games at native 4k, but I want to see how many developers are going to actually put in the work to do it.
Possumowner
Member
Good read,nice to see MS being pretty open about Scorpio.
Scorpio also doesn't support Exclusives. Ohh burn.
Liabe Brave
Member
Pro has 10% more memory and 24% higher bandwidth than standard PS4. Neither of us know how good the latency upgrades are, but since they come from AMD just like Microsoft's, I can't imagine they're very different. These are much smaller upgrades than Scorpio over standard Xbox One, but they are also much better than standard PS4.
You're right that we can't rule out the possibility that Scorpio might have Vega features that Pro doesn't. We do know for sure that Pro has Vega features that Scorpio doesn't.
Scorpio will run games better than Pro, in some cases a lot better. It has features Pro doesn't. It gives users choices Pro doesn't always. What makes it so hard to simultaneously acknowledge things about it that could've been better?
No, it is not from the DICE presentation. It comes from a developer over at Beyond3D, and refers to their entire game engine.
lwilliams3
Member
The lack of double-rate fp16 is unexpected. That means that games that takes advantage of that feature on the Switch/PS4Pro will not get the bonus performance when its ported to Scropio. That can narrow the performance gap to the other systems.
FP16 doesn't really matter all that much in regards to actual game outcomes right now as it is based on a situation basis and not really optimized for in a major way. When only Switch and Pro use it, that makes it less likely to factor into optimization efforts all around.
Of course, i do find it amusing how they attempt to desperately dance around Jaguar. Just say you only did a minor upclock MS. Its okay, we understand why it was the only way forward.
About as many as Pro i'd assume
Of course, i do find it amusing how they attempt to desperately dance around Jaguar. Just say you only did a minor upclock MS. Its okay, we understand why it was the only way forward.
About as many as Pro i'd assume
CassidyIzABeast
Member
FP16 reminds me of 2013 when there was a long ass thread on hUMA and the PS4 having it while the XB1 didn't.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
it did matter to processes with compute shaders and such, Horizon uses the GPU for CPU work extensively
wesleyshark
Banned
Lol
JamesHolden
Banned
This was a pretty long article, that read super choppy with all the quotes, in which we actually learned very little we didn't already know.
Yeah because they released DLC and threw in some minor supoort. There won't be DLC in 6 months requiring a patch.
Yep just like that Witcher 3 and Bloodborne Pro patch
