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'Star Wars': Han Solo Film Loses Directors (Lord & Miller)

D

Daft_Cat

Member
-ImaginaryInsider said:
Reading between the lines, it seems like the bigger question is why hire directors known for improv and having their own style when Kasdan felt his script needed read word for word and done his way?

It really seems like Kennedy/LucasFilms don't have a clue what they actually want from these spin-offs, and continue not to figure it out until very late, then force these up and coming directors into crazy reshoots and creative retooling, which effectively negate the point of hiring that specific director in the first place.

You just don't get this far into filming and suddenly realize it's "too comedic".
Click to expand...

I think there's an even subtler reason their process might've clashed with Kennedy and co. A lot of comedy directors are well known for playing loose with things like coverage and line readings on set.

There tends to be a lot of "Ok, try it this way. Great, now try it that way. Wait, here's an idea! Why don't we...". That's in addition to all the writing on-the-go/improv/happy accidents that occur on set. The end result is that very few "locked-in" choices get made during filming, and instead a lot of the heavy lifting occurs in the editing room (almost like a final "rewrite). It's not laziness either. It's a legitimate process, and it works.

But when you're dealing with a $250 million+ blockbuster, and it's not immediately clear how the dailies are intended to cut together or what tone they're supposed to take? It doesn't necessarily mean the film is doomed - but it's definitely enough to get a risk-averse producer shaking in their boots.

I agree, though. You'd think there would've been more foresight - provided this isn't some sort of fuck-up on Lord and Miller's part.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
Busty said:
Given how much they gutted and reshot of Rogue One and it still turned out a solid film there's enough time for them to 'fix' this but I doubt it will be anything special which a Lord & Miller film could have been.

It's clear that they want safe and that's what they are going to get.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Kennedy will deliver a solid film that will make money. That's her job.

Jest Chillin said:
Kennedy was personally groomed as a Producer by Steven Spielberg specifically because of her good Production ideas. She didn't buy her way into the business. She's earned her position, has more hits than misses in her work history, and did so starting in Hollywood in the late 70's/early 80's. She's legitimately good at her job and knows what the hell she's doing. She was named Co-Chair of Lucasfilm in 2012 as Lucas was planning to retire ahead of plans for her to replace him entirely as the head of the company. This was before the Disney purchase.
Click to expand...

Kennedy has earned her spot and as I've pointed out, if we're going to talk about sacking movie execs, the list starts way, way before her.
 
I

-ImaginaryInsider

Member
Daft_Cat said:
But when you're dealing with a $250 million+ blockbuster, and it's not immediately clear how the dailies are intended to cut together or what tone they're supposed to take? It doesn't necessarily mean the film is doomed - but it's definitely enough to get a risk-averse producer shaking in their boots.
Click to expand...

Well, I think that is the central issue:

-Chose to make Star Wars spin-offs: risky.
-Hire non-traditional/newer directors: risky.
-Freak out 70% in because of said risk.

If you are a risk-adverse studio, why make a young Han Solo movie in the first place? If you don't have faith in your newbie director's vision for the movie, why hire them in the first place?

LucasFilms seems to be building projects that go against the very nature of LucasFilms.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
-ImaginaryInsider said:
Well, I think that is the central issue:

-Chose to make Star Wars spin-offs: risky.
-Hire non-traditional/newer directors: risky.
-Freak out 70% in because of said risk.

If you are a risk-adverse studio, why make a young Han Solo movie in the first place? If you don't have faith in your newbie director's vision for the movie, why hire them in the first place?

LucasFilms seems to be building projects that go against the very nature of LucasFilms.
Click to expand...

Hiring Lord and Miller wasn't a risky move, those dudes have made 4 movies that are loved by general audiences, it's not like they've only made some super niche arthouse movies. I mean, the fact that they are so unrisky is exactly why they were brought in, they're known for being the dudes who make risky ideas be unrisky.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
ArmGunar said:
Exactly ... I don't understand Kennedy and Lucasfilm ...
Click to expand...

They just didn't agree with the direction. It's simple.

If that's the case. I totally understand them. Is it still a shit thing that happened? Sure. But I understand it.

And you can't say Kennedy doesn't know what she's doing when she's 2 for 2 right now and the brand has so much positive energy and excitement surrounding it.
 
Ennosuke

Ennosuke

Member
JCG said:
She's definitely doing a great job in terms of keeping the Star Wars brand alive and profitable. That cannot be seriously questioned at this point. There's no way she will lose her position as long as this remains an accurate description.

However, it can be argued that this has also resulted in the new movies playing things too safe, sticking to easy formulas and pleasing the audience by avoiding risks that could have led to more unique and interesting films, creatively speaking.

Maybe the Last Jedi will be a little more wild due to being the middle of a trilogy, but I am currently expecting that Episode IX will shift right back towards familiar territory.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Exactly my thoughts. It feels like Disney is playing it too safe with Star Wars. We need more creativity, the universe has so much potential for fantastic stories.
 
X

Xe4

Banned
Yeah, between Lord & Miller leaving, and the rumors as to why they left. All my hype for this movie is gone. Shame, it could've been a great film. Still can, I suppose, but we'll see.
 
G

Guy.brush

Member
JCG said:
[..]

Maybe the Last Jedi will be a little more wild due to being the middle of a trilogy, but I am currently expecting that Episode IX will shift right back towards familiar territory.
Click to expand...

Episode VIII will have these walkers on a big white open plain marching towards their target (hey it is a HOTh salts flat desert! It rhymes!)
Star-Wars-Last-Jedi-merchandise-images-963054.jpg

I hope that is not the full extent of "little more wild"..
 
I

-ImaginaryInsider

Member
Einchy said:
Hiring Lord and Miller wasn't a risky move, those dudes have made 4 movies that are loved by general audiences, it's not like they've only made some super niche arthouse movies. I mean, the fact that they are so unrisky is exactly why they were brought in, they're known for being the dudes who make risky ideas be unrisky.
Click to expand...

I don't think they're a risky choice at all, and I totally agree they make risky ideas unrisky. Of all the folks Kennedy hired, Rian and L&M never had me worried.

In the context of a seemingly ultra risk-adverse studio though, two animation/comedy heavy directors who routinely use improv must have seemed pretty risky, or Variety wouldn't have the fodder to write that article, and Kennedy wouldn't fired them this late in production.

You have to think in a world where a somewhat tonally different "Iron Man 3" still made a billion, there would be a place for a L&M Han Solo movie without the studio freaking out like this.
 
A

ArmGunar

Member
Boke1879 said:
They just didn't agree with the direction. It's simple.

If that's the case. I totally understand them. Is it still a shit thing that happened? Sure. But I understand it.

And you can't say Kennedy doesn't know what she's doing when she's 2 for 2 right now and the brand has so much positive energy and excitement surrounding it.
Click to expand...

You're off, please read the message I quoted
 
P

Patryn

Member
SpaceWolf said:
It's not going to be directed by Alan Smithee. Lucasfilm just wouldn't allow it on account of the brand damage it would do, they'd find some other alternative.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't have a choice. Director credits are solely decided by the DGA, and the studio has to live with it.

From the article:

Instead, the rule is simply this: the DGA decides, and everyone is bound by that decision.
Click to expand...

If Lord and Miller take their names off, and the DGA determines that the duo did the majority of the directing for the film, then Lucasfilm has no choice but to release it as an Alan Smithee film.
 
B

bill0527

Member
Dash_Riprock said:
Just sounds like poor damage control at this point.
Click to expand...

Except, he's tweeted this same thing several times over the last few months.

Rian saying this isn't anything new that he hasn't said many times throughout the production of Episode VIII.

If this was the first time I'd heard him say it, then yes you could call it reactionary damage control.
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
Patryn said:
They wouldn't have a choice. Director credits are solely decided by the DGA, and the studio has to live with it.

From the article:



If Lord and Miller take their names off, and the DGA determines that the duo did the majority of the directing for the film, then Lucasfilm has no choice but to release it as an Alan Smithee film.
Click to expand...

As previously touched upon, the "Alan Smithee" pseudonym was officially discontinued by the DGA in 2000.
 
I

-ImaginaryInsider

Member
Patryn said:
If Lord and Miller take their names off, and the DGA determines that the duo did the majority of the directing for the film, then Lucasfilm has no choice but to release it as an Alan Smithee film.
Click to expand...

It's going to be interesting to see how the credits are going to play out...

LucasFilms has to be aware these type of stories are going to keep popping up, and I doubt they can completely overcome the negative press of having Lord and Miller remove their name from credits if it comes to that.
 
W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
TDLink said:
People need to stop hating on George Lucas.

The guy was a visionary. He's great at story and world development.

I wouldn't say he's a bad Director either.

He's just a crappy script writer. The prequels weren't good because no one was there to help develop those scripts, it was all on him.

Conceptually a lot of the ideas in the prequels are sound and very creative and different. That spark of innovation is something that was definitely missing in both TFA and RO in their effort to resemble the OT as much as possible.
Click to expand...

He's a terrible director, specifically when it comes to his actors. Even back in the OT days he was never particularly good at giving his actors any kind of real direction.

"Faster and more intense"? There's a reason why the cast mocked the shit out of him over that. It's legitimately bad direction. I mean, it's not even direction, lol.
 
A

Ashhong

Member
V

VistraNorrez

Member
George Lucas directed American Graffiti and Star Wars, two of the all time greatest films ever. THX 1138 is a very good film. He is not a terrible director. He could make 20 more terrible Star Wars movies and those earlier accomplishments will still exist. And that's what he'll be remembered for. You really only need one great work of art to cement your legacy. I have no problem calling him a great director.
 
R

Random Human

They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
One of the most annoying things RLM did was convince a generation of film nerds that George Lucas is a huge hack who contributed nothing to the success of Star Wars.
 
W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
VistraNorrez said:
George Lucas directed American Graffiti and Star Wars, two of the all time greatest films ever. THX 1138 is a very good film. He is not a terrible director. He could make 20 more terrible Star Wars movies and those earlier accomplishments will still exist. And that's what he'll be remembered for. You really only need one great work of art to cement your legacy. I have no problem calling him a great director.
Click to expand...

As far as directing talent goes, he is objectively a bad director. Now, there is much more to directing than that, and in other areas he ranges from passable to legitimately amazing, but that's what I was specifically referring to, and an inability to direct actors is a pretty serious flaw, even with his other strengths.

I mean, even George admits he's rubbish at giving actors direction, and is well known for not even liking that part of the process.

I'm not just shitting on him to an asshole, and the dude created one of my favorite things of all time and has made some legitimately amazing movies, alongside being one of THE most important figures in modern film history. Dude was a revolutionary.

But he still can't direct actors worth a shit.
 
T

TankUP

Member
If the Lego movie guys don't actually get what makes Han Solo the iconic character he is today, fuck 'em. My faith is 200% with Kennedy until proven otherwise.
 
S

streetsahead123

Banned
TankUP said:
If the Lego movie guys don't actually get what makes Han Solo the iconic character he is today, fuck 'em. My faith is 200% with Kennedy until proven otherwise.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to them as "the Lego movie guys" as a way to discount them? Cause, like, that's legit one of the best movies of this decade.
 
C

Cross-Section

Member
mmmmyeeeeah that's some good false equivalency

Also a smidgen more scoop from Slashfilm:
I was sitting in a screening room on a studio lot watching an early showing of one of summer's most anticipated blockbusters when my phone started vibrating uncontrollably in my pocket and wouldn't stop. I excused myself to go to the bathroom to see what was up. Out of the screening room, I pulled out my phone and saw a string of text messages about Lord and Miller being fired from Han Solo. Like many of you, I was truly shocked to see this news, as it's very unusual for filmmakers to leave a project during filming. It happens quite often before principal photography, and sometimes during post-production, but during shooting? That never happens.

But I knew something was up. Months ago, I heard there was trouble in paradise. Kathleen Kennedy and the Han Solo directors were clashing over many aspects of production.
Click to expand...

The production went on a hiatus, in part to review footage that had been shot. From what my sources tell me, Kennedy went to the editing room with Academy Award-winning editor Chris Dickens to see what the footage looked like when it was edited together. The filmmaking duo had filmed so many different choices that it was apparently unclear from dailies it would work or feel tonally consistent. Kennedy was not entirely happy with what she was seeing in the editing room – she didn't think the footage felt like a Star Wars movie.

The Lucasfilm head showed some of the edited scenes to other executives, and Han Solo screenwriter/producer Lawrence Kasdan, whose other credits include The Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars: The Force Awakens, and he echoed Kennedy's concerns. Lord and Miller apparently clashed with Kasdan, questioning ”many of the pair's directing choices." One insider said the creative differences were due to the feeling that Lord and Miller did not understand the character of Han Solo, treating him as comedic rather than sarcastic and selfish. Lord and Miller are lifelong Star Wars fans, so I find that hard to believe. If anything, I can believe that they treated the tone of the movie as more of a comedy than Lucasfilm and Disney had anticipated.
Click to expand...

More at the link.
 
B

bill0527

Member
-ImaginaryInsider said:
Well, I think that is the central issue:

-Chose to make Star Wars spin-offs: risky.
-Hire non-traditional/newer directors: risky.
-Freak out 70% in because of said risk.

If you are a risk-adverse studio, why make a young Han Solo movie in the first place?If you don't have faith in your newbie director's vision for the movie, why hire them in the first place?

LucasFilms seems to be building projects that go against the very nature of LucasFilms.
Click to expand...

This is another episode of tales from my ass, but...

The Solo movie is clearly Kasdan's pet project and after delivering on Empire Strikes Back and The Force Awakens, he's convinced Licasfilm/Disney to give him his pet project. It's really the only rational explanation I can think of.

Remember when they announced the possibility of doing Star Wars spin-offs when Lucas sold out and they announced Episodes 7,8,9 were coming? Remember when everyone said, "oh they should really do a young Han Solo and recast the role"? Remember that? Yeah said no one ever. Kasdan is literally the only one on the planet that's wanted this.
 
I

-ImaginaryInsider

Member
Kennedy went to the editing room with Academy Award-winning editor Chris Dickens to see what the footage looked like when it was edited together. The filmmaking duo had filmed so many different choices that it was apparently unclear from dailies it would work or feel tonally consistent.
Click to expand...

It just seems like Kennedy hired these guys without having any clue regarding their process. It's not exactly surprising she would be unhappy with a hodge-podge of tonally different scenes assembled by someone not Lord and Miller.
 
D

duckroll

Member
No matter how this goes down, the OT title is pretty much set. It can be nothing other than some variation of "Lord and Miller Shot Han First".
 
T

Tookay

Member
MHWilliams said:
What about the already released films would make you think that was the point?
Click to expand...

Maybe not the already-released films, but Kathleen Kennedy's own words?

Kennedy said Lucasfilm is intentionally pursuing “emerging” directing talent and that the anthology films are where the franchise can experiment with form and tone to produce “unexpected” results.
Click to expand...

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/04/rogue-one-star-wars-heist-prequel-felicity-jonex
 
W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
Experimental and unexpected doesn't necessarily mean they're explicitly going for "not like a Star Wars film". Presumably there's a balance to be struck, and this movie tipped the scale too far in one direction.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Mariolee said:
...isn't that the point?
Click to expand...

No? You must definitely want a Han Solo movie to feel like Star Wars, hell, you want ALL Star Wars to feel like Star Wars.
Tookay said:
Maybe not the already-released films, but Kathleen Kennedy's own words?
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/04/rogue-one-star-wars-heist-prequel-felicity-jonex
Click to expand...

Rogue One was tonally different than other movies but it still felt Star Warsy as shit. Like WhiteRabbitEXE said, there's a balance to be had here, you can be unexpected and still make it fit among the franchise.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
WhiteRabbitEXE said:
Experimental and unexpected doesn't necessarily mean they're explicitly going for "not like a Star Wars film". Presumably there's a balance to be struck, and this movie tipped the scale too far in one direction.
Click to expand...

It really does sound like Lord & Miller couldn't explain to their producer that they just needed to get in the editing bay to cut it together and it'd make sense. And the producer didn't trust 'em, and Kennedy didn't trust what she saw when the mountains of choices on each scene weren't cutting together for her, and Kasdan is yapping all up in her ear about his screenplay and the way the actors were coming together and working as a whole was probably feeling to them like "how do we... get these people to resemble the people we met in 1977 and 1980"

And they basically had to weigh "Do we let these guys just cut together something in post? What happens if we STILL don't like it?" vs "Everyone seems to like how this works FOR THIS MOVIE"

And it basically seems like the decision came down to make it fit with the rest of the series, and get someone in there who will make Kasdan happy, and will take what's already been shot and make it look/feel more in line with the rest of the series. And that meant giving Lord & Miller the boot, because they weren't going to stop doing what they were doing, because it was working on the set, and it was working with the actors. The people it really wasn't working for was their on-set producer, and their screenwriter - who just happened to be the guy who wrote Raiders, Empire, Jedi, and Force Awakens.

Kennedy had to make the call, and she erred on the side of cutting the crusts off and kicking the kids to the curb for the sake of Kasdan's happiness. When it came down to it, she picked the old-timer. Which makes sense. And it's not like the old-timer didn't just help write her a screenplay that led to a movie that made 900+ domestic, right?

Lord & Miller were probably making a fuckin crazy-ass flat-out COMEDY that happened to have wookiees and landos in it. And she's decided she wants a Star Wars movie that has some funny Wookiee & Lando bits in it.

(They really just shoulda made a goddamn Lando movie and left Han out of it completely)
 
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