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Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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Welcome, my brother! lmao
2000-ish SPUs at 800mhz would melt these boxes, but it would be awesome!

That post was in memorium to snesfreak.

*tips a 40oz of water*

*makes sure it goes into a cup to not waste good water*

If next gen systems do not cause radiation poisoning, what is the point?

Exactly. That's the only way to show how hardcore we are as gamers by putting our life on the line.

I hope my infos helped to kill once and for all the "1x xbox360" rumor.

But they also should have assassinate the "Japanese stallion with cutting edge components of 2014".

XD @ the former. That's not going away any time soon. And no one expected the latter.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
I am aware of this. 360's GPU is also about 6x stronger than the Xbox's and it's CPU is way out there. And yet, the fidelity of the graphics only look about twice, or even three times as good in my opinion.

How you are able to put a number on graphics like this, blows my mind.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
Ok everyone I have a new idea/speculation about the Wii U - pad.

It came to my mind that in 2006 and before the Wii era started nintendo patented or invested in a company which produces holographic projection devices.
By that time there was even speculation about the Wii using something like that...

SO, what if now the big surprise of E3 would not only be a powerful system no it will be a holographic projector inside the Wii U pad!!

And they will show it with that simple golf demo for excample, they lay down the pad and a golf-ball pops out of the screen...

Ahhhh, I would love that and there are so many ways they could use that....
And it would be a system seller for sure...
A patent for "Miniature flexure based scanners for angle multiplexing" was filed jointly by Nintendo and Inphase Technologies in early 2007. It reads:

Abstract

The present invention provides a spatial flexure comprising: a base section; an end section; and an intermediate laterally contracting and expanding section connecting the base and end sections, whereby when the intermediate section laterally expands or contracts, the end section pivots downwardly or upwardly. The present invention further provides a spatial flexure scanner comprising: a base section; a scanning beam reflective section; an intermediate laterally contracting and expanding section connecting the base and reflective sections; an actuator associated with the base section; a scanning beam reflective mirror connected to the reflective section; means connecting the actuator and the reflective member for causing lateral contraction or expansion of the intermediate section in response to the actuator, whereby when the intermediate section laterally expands or contracts, the reflective section pivots downwardly or upwardly.

BACKGROUND

1. Field of the Invention

The present invention broadly relates to generally to a device comprising a spatial flexure for a scanner used in angle multiplexing of holographic data. The present invention further broadly relates to a spatial flexure scanner for use in angle multiplexing of holographic data.

2. Related Art

Developers of information storage devices and methods continue to seek increased storage capacity. As part of this development, holographic memory systems have been suggested as alternatives to conventional memory devices. Holographic memory systems may be designed to record data as one bit of information (i.e., bit-wise data storage). See McLeod et al. "Micro-Holographic Multi-Layer Optical Disk Data Storage," International Symposium on Optical Memory and Optical Data Storage (July 2005). Holographic memory systems may also be designed to record an array of data that may be a 1-dimensional linear array (i.e., a 1.times.N array, where N is the number linear data bits), or a 2-dimensional array commonly referred to as a "page-wise" memory system. Page-wise memory systems may involve the storage and readout of an entire two-dimensional representation, e.g., a page of data. Typically, recording light passes through a two-dimensional array of low and high transparency areas representing data, and the system stores, in three dimensions, the pages of data holographically as patterns of varying refractive index imprinted into a storage medium. See Psaltis et al., "Holographic Memories," Scientific American, November 1995, where holographic systems are discussed generally, including page-wise memory systems.

Source: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...ND+AN/NIntendo&RS=(AN/InPhase+AND+AN/NIntendo)

An additional four patents have been filed jointly by Nintendo and InPhase, the most recent in April 17, 2008, for a "Miniature single actuator scanner for angle multiplexing with circularizing and pitch correction capability". While all this sounds really interesting, it must be noted that InPhase is not in good standing with the Colorado Secretary of State, the company's status is actually listed as delinquent, which means InPhase failed to file its Periodic Report or failed to maintain a registered agent. In other words, risky business for Nintendo to enter, so I doubt we'll see any holographic technologies in Wii U, unless Nintendo is planning to secure full rights to those patents.
 

StevieP

Banned
That post was in memorium to snesfreak.

*tips a 40oz of water*

*makes sure it goes into a cup to not waste good water*

What is he perma'd? lol

It depends on what type of CPU Sony goes with. IIRC they bought their cell factory back and are working on reducing the die size of the PS3 cell. I think there's a good chance they will go with some type of modified cell processor again for PS4 and use SoC. We could quite a power increase if they did. Theoretically this would allow them to allocate more money on a better GPU and more RAM. It's really too early to say though and I'm not the best person to ask about the components that go into these systems, but I'm expecting PS4 to be a beast.

What if Sony doesn't use the Cell? Because, really, why use a shrunken CPU design from 2005 when you can use a CPU design from 2009/10/11?

Regardless, just as with the Wii U - you still have the restrictions of a console case to work with. Sure, you generally get lower access to the hardware in the closed box environment, but that doesn't change the parameters here. My point was that my current PC will have far more brute force power/GPU muscle/memory/etc etc etc than any of these next gen consoles will *now* and I know what to expect of it in terms of IQ, whether the game is designed for PC or ported.

With this understanding, I know the limitations I can expect from any of the consoles I buy as well. There is no "future magic" at work here.
 
Yeah. Would a 3DS with a second analog and better battery life be bigger? Yes. But it would still be a lot smaller than what we end up with by attaching things like the PowerGrip or Circle Pad Pro after the fact, and still smaller than the original model DS.

Not disagreeing with you, just lamenting that that boat has sailed. Unless they made the change in the first million or so units, that sort of change has to be thought of as a add-on and would be unlikely to be supported very well.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Ideaman, what is your impression of the level of enthusiasm of your developer contacts?


This is one of the more relevant question to ask me, when i talk about "experience", "feelings".

To be perfectly honest, it was not on the "amagad the Matsushita M2 will blow away the N64 !!!! look at this car demo !" level. It was not the typical feverish and a bit delirious kind of state that we all knew when reading leaks about the power of a new console back in the 90's for example. Of course, my sources are mature adults so it must explain a part of this more reasonable level of enthusiasm.

Still, they appeared very interested by the hardware possibilities. It was not a disillusion. More a "we are busy trying to figure/optimize ways to use well the features of the Wii U". I had also the strong impression that A LOT (maybe more than in other consoles in the same time frame before their launch) is still in flux, and could be optimized. The fact that there is at least one additional display bring a lot of variables, of stretch, when estimating the guts of the hardware. It would be easier to gauge it with a game rendered in just one screen, like "ok, the resolution, the fps, the poly count, the new effects, etc, are clearly a leap ahead on this screen displaying the Wii U version than on this Xbox 360 screen". But if you calculate a second scene displayed at the same time on the tablet with a noticeable resolution, it's pretty different.
 

nordique

Member
Thanks for your input to the discussion here.

I believe when we look at all the sources, insiders but also interviews with developers and even Nintendo themselves, it is pretty obvious that Nintendo is in no way aiming for a technical powerhouse now.
The 2x figure, as it is, points to 360/PS3 visuals with some extra beef - such as more detailed textures and better shaders. This is exactly in line with what Gearbox said in the past, for example. But this also means that we won't get the PC version of Battlefield 3 in highest details at 1080p - that's what 720 and PS4 will rather look like.

The good thing is that WiiU should be able to handle future iterations of the popular engines - UE, CryEngine, Frostbite. I imagine that the quality of the visuals between WiiU and 720IPS4 will be similar to Battlefield 3 on consoles to PC (again: slightly better geometry, better textures, shaders, framerate). This is a fair trade off for a hopefully slightly cheaper console that will come out earlier and spot an innovative new control scheme. And for lots and lots of Nintendo IPs in glorious HD for the very first time.

I also would like to the the console to reign all consoles, just for the sake of not having to spend money on three different platforms. But on the other hand, it looks like the strength and weaknesses of all three platforms will kind of balance out in the end, even if they are different. With the Wii, the console just was no option for realistic looking games at all and couldn't run industry standard engines. That was a completely different obstacle for developers to overcome.



I understand the rest of your post, but how can you say the bolded with certainty? I'm not sold that is what they "will" look like.

Perhaps PS4. But I don't see the next Xbox necessarily heading in that direction, just as the Wii U doesn't seem to be.
 

GameE

Member
I know I'm late (one page late) about this but can people stop quoting Nintendo Gamer stuff that isn't from issue 73 or whatever isn't 6 months old?
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
What if Sony doesn't use the Cell? Because, really, why use a shrunken CPU design from 2005 when you can use a CPU design from 2009/10/11?

Regardless, just as with the Wii U - you still have the restrictions of a console case to work with. Sure, you generally get lower access to the hardware in the closed box environment, but that doesn't change the parameters here. My point was that my current PC will have far more brute force power/GPU muscle/memory/etc etc etc than any of these next gen consoles will *now* and I know what to expect of it in terms of IQ, whether the game is designed for PC or ported.

With this understanding, I know the limitations I can expect from any of the consoles I buy as well. There is no "future magic" at work here.

I'm curious how powerful cell is compared to modern CPUs. I also said I think they will make some alterations to it to increase performance. If modern PCs are still more powerful than a system that more than likely won't release until 2014 that's a bit disappointing. I know it will excel in some areas, but over all we should see games that look better than what's out now.
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
I understand the rest of your post, but how can you say the bolded with certainty? I'm not sold that is what they "will" look like.

Perhaps PS4. But I don't see the next Xbox necessarily heading in that direction, just as the Wii U doesn't seem to be.

For me it's because of statements like "Avatar Graphics" and next gen will run UE4 whereas Wii U is only a stop gap. Also Vita vs 3DS is a good visual representation.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Thanks for your input to the discussion here.

I believe when we look at all the sources, insiders but also interviews with developers and even Nintendo themselves, it is pretty obvious that Nintendo is in no way aiming for a technical powerhouse now.
The 2x figure, as it is, points to 360/PS3 visuals with some extra beef - such as more detailed textures and better shaders. This is exactly in line with what Gearbox said in the past, for example. But this also means that we won't get the PC version of Battlefield 3 in highest details at 1080p - that's what 720 and PS4 will rather look like.

The good thing is that WiiU should be able to handle future iterations of the popular engines - UE, CryEngine, Frostbite. I imagine that the quality of the visuals between WiiU and 720IPS4 will be similar to Battlefield 3 on consoles to PC (again: slightly better geometry, better textures, shaders, framerate). This is a fair trade off for a hopefully slightly cheaper console that will come out earlier and spot an innovative new control scheme. And for lots and lots of Nintendo IPs in glorious HD for the very first time.

I also would like to the the console to reign all consoles, just for the sake of not having to spend money on three different platforms. But on the other hand, it looks like the strength and weaknesses of all three platforms will kind of balance out in the end, even if they are different. With the Wii, the console just was no option for realistic looking games at all and couldn't run industry standard engines. That was a completely different obstacle for developers to overcome.


Even if Sony pushes PS4, unless it launches at the end of 2014 (after the HD9000 series is ready) do not expect max graphics of BF3.

Also as to your comparison, it's impossible... Even if somehow PS4 reaches BF3 max settings, the Wii U wouldn't somehow be on par with current gen consoles... Maybe it's easier for you to use multipliers so here... if PS4 is 10x PS3 (HIGHLY DOUBTFUL) The Wii U will be At least 3x PS3 (that is hardware throughput, we already know some components are 4 or 5 times greater) That means that PS4 at best is only a little over 3X greater in power than Wii U.

BTW the PS3 is a 255Gflops machine, to get 10X that, you'd need a HD6970, that shouldn't be possible in a console until at least the HD8000 series, and it will cost Sony something like $100+ per GPU.

Basically Sony would have to accept another huge losses console from the get go again.

TL:DR If your measuring stick is the console gen and max pc specs of today, and you are looking at next gen consoles that will all be stronger than current gen but weaker then max pc specs... your comparison is flawed.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
XD @ the former. That's not going away any time soon. And no one expected the latter.

Yeah i know that it's more a drop in the ocean and speculations on gamers boards about an underpowered Wii U will certainly continue :(

For the latter, well, i've read a lot of posts fantasizing on the recent boost in power that the dev kits received, like it could have been to the extent of ditching a HD4830 GPU for a good Southern Islands one. From what i know, it's not the case. Maybe the very dedicated chip that they will use in the end will contain some new advancements developed by AMD/ATI, but not to that point.
 

wsippel

Banned
Yeah i know that it's a drop in the ocean and a lot of speculations about an underpowered Wii U will continue :(

For the latter, well, i've read a lot of posts fantasizing on the recent boost in power that the dev kit received, like it could have been to the extent of ditching a HD4830 GPU for a good Southern Islands one. From what i know, it's not the case. Maybe the very dedicated chip that they will use will contain some new advancements of AMD/ATI, but not to that point.
That's an interesting point, actually: While it's pretty easy to identify members of the team at IBM that worked on the CPU, it's nearly impossible to find a single team member from AMD outside of two dudes working on secondary stuff like the IO processor. But I also have no idea what Nintendo Technology Development was up to in recent years, and those guys were very deeply involved in the creation of Flipper as far as I know, to the point of actually codeveloping the TEV architecture. I kinda wonder just how custom the GPU is at this point, and who developed/ customized what.

EDIT: I believe parts of the chip design process were outsourced to other companies, too. Cadence for example does contract microprocessor design and was involved as far as I know. So maybe Nintendo also contracted, say, DMP to work on parts of the GPU.
 
Yeah i know that it's a drop in the ocean and speculations about an underpowered Wii U will continue :(

For the latter, well, i've read a lot of posts fantasizing on the recent boost in power that the dev kits received, like it could have been to the extent of ditching a HD4830 GPU for a good Southern Islands one. From what i know, it's not the case. Maybe the very dedicated chip that they will use will contain some new advancements of AMD/ATI, but not to that point.

Well to be fair they were proposing a 7000-series "equivalent" to an RV770 so I'd say they were still being reasonable. I still don't expect Nintendo use GCN for their GPU. For me as long as the final at least has a newer tessellation unit for developers, I'll be willing to accept what it will be.
 
IdeaMan, first of all, thanks so much for the responses, and sorry about all the questions!

I must ask, though,
  • a) How finalised do you believe the dev kits are? Is there any word form Nintendo that further advancements are coming?
  • And b) If, say, the Upad wasn't used at all, no video streaming or connection, is the system significantly more powerful without this burden? I wonder how effectively the system handles multiple outputs, and wonder if this may persuade developers to go for a simple menu below whilst they make use of visual fidelity above.
Thanks!
 

guek

Banned
This is one of the more relevant question to ask me, when i talk about "experience", "feelings".

To be perfectly honest, it was not on the "amagad the Matsushita M2 will blow away the N64 !!!! look at this car demo !" level. It was not the typical feverish and a bit delirious kind of state that we all knew when reading leaks about the power of a new console back in the 90's for example. Of course, my sources are mature adults so it must explain a part of this more reasonable level of enthusiasm.

Still, they appeared very interested by the hardware possibilities. It was not a disillusion. More a "we are busy trying to figure/optimize ways to use well the features of the Wii U". I had also the strong impression that A LOT (maybe more than in other consoles in the same time frame before their launch) is still in flux, and could be optimized. The fact that there is at least one additional display bring a lot of variables, of stretch, when estimating the guts of the hardware. It would be easier to gauge it with a game rendered in just one screen, like "ok, the resolution, the fps, the poly count, the new effects, etc, are clearly a leap ahead on this screen displaying the Wii U version than on this Xbox 360 screen". But if you calculate a second scene displayed at the same time on the tablet with a noticeable resolution, it's pretty different.

Interesting. Thanks for your input!
 

Azure J

Member
Off-topic: I'm continually amused at the people who don't realize the pun in Kat & Ana. Did you guys not play Brawl and listen when they announced themselves? :p

On-topic: I'm still having a hard time understanding what the implication is between seeing visuals that are 2x better than what's been seen on PS360 versus the system being 2x as powerful. [I blame my stressful current lifestyle for not being able to sit tight and grasp it all.] The former would imply that (for early development), the system is promising but won't show off it's promise until it's tech is matured, while the latter implies that the system will provide some nicer things overall but will still show its "current gen-ish" roots here or there, correct?

Finally, which side of the fence are we sitting on, the former or latter?
 
Off-topic: I'm continually amused at the people who don't realize the pun in Kat & Ana. Did you guys not play Brawl and listen when they announced themselves? :p

On-topic: I'm still having a hard time understanding what the implication is between seeing visuals that are 2x better than what's been seen on PS360 versus the system being 2x as powerful. [I blame my stressful current lifestyle for not being able to sit tight and grasp it all.] The former would imply that (for early development), the system is promising but won't show off it's promise until it's tech is matured, while the latter implies that the system will provide some nicer things overall but will still show its "current gen-ish" roots here or there, correct?

Finally, which side of the fence are we sitting on, the former or latter?

Former
 

TunaLover

Member
@IdeaMan
1. Some source rumored that were at least 150-200 games in development to Wii U, what do you think about it?
2. How many third party developers you think that are completely on board with Wii U?
 

HylianTom

Banned
@IdeaMan
1. Some source rumored that were at least 150-200 games in development to Wii U, what do you think about it?
2. How many third party developers you think that are completely on board with Wii U?

Good questions. Like you picked my brain.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall in some of the offices where they make these decisions..
 

tkscz

Member
Well to be fair they were proposing a 7000-series "equivalent" to an RV770 so I'd say they were still being reasonable. I still don't expect Nintendo use GCN for their GPU. For me as long as the final at least has a newer tessellation unit for developers, I'll be willing to accept what it will be.

I asked before but go no answer.

At this point right here, is the sand using bump/normal mapping, or is it using tessellation?
 

bachikarn

Member
Ideaman, since the whole multiplier stuff is so subjective, what would you or your source consider the difference in visuals between the xbox and xbox360? This would give a good reference point as to what you guys consider 2x to be.

Thanks
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Has Ideaman said anything about the Wii U in relation to the other two consoles?

I would think that if he knows something about the Wii U he'd know something about the other two new consoles as well.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
IdeaMan, first of all, thanks so much for the responses, and sorry about all the questions!

I must ask, though,
  • a) How finalised do you believe the dev kits are? Is there any word form Nintendo that further advancements are coming?
  • And b) If, say, the Upad wasn't used at all, no video streaming or connection, is the system significantly more powerful without this burden? I wonder how effectively the system handles multiple outputs, and wonder if this may persuade developers to go for a simple menu below whilst they make use of visual fidelity above.
Thanks!

As i said in my first post here, i intend to give more infos later (but before E3 :) )
Still, your B point is fundamental. As a proof of the enlightenment of this community, some of you laid a hand on a crucial part of the Wii U that may have been a bit overlooked before, and which is an important parameter to consider when reading my messages. All of them will be linked and the bigger picture will appear even more cleaner.
 
As i said in my first post here, i intend to give more infos later (but before E3 :) )
Still, your B point is fundamental. As a proof of the enlightenment of this community, some of you laid a hand on a crucial part of the Wii U that may have been a bit overlooked before, and which is an important parameter to consider when reading my messages. All of them will be linked and the bigger picture will appear even more cleaner.

You cryptic bastard. Haha, I kid, I kid.

Thanks for the reply! This kind of message helps me anticipate GDC and E3 even more!

There wil be something at GDC, right? Right!?

*EDIT*: I'm guessing the Wii U had trouble with the current gen engine and has seemed weaker because developers are in fact running the game on BOTH the tablet and TV? Two nods for yes, one for no...
 

Hiltz

Member
“The Killer Freaks team worked with the early Wii U dev kits before E3, but even we hadn’t seen the actual device until a day before the show.” - Ubisoft Montpellier’s Guillaume Brunier. By the way, this is an old comment from E3 2011 from issue # 65 of Nintendo Gamer Magazine.

Sounds familiar...

"The last version of the controller we had was literally a giant Game Boy. It was very clunky. The shoulder buttons were really high, so they were out of reach, so you had to shift your hand to use a shoulder button. In the middle of combat that's just not an option. The controller we saw at E3 was not what we had." - Vigil Games
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
As i said in my first post here, i intend to give more infos later (but before E3 :) )
Still, your B point is fundamental. As a proof of the enlightenment of this community, some of you laid a hand on a crucial part of the Wii U that may have been a bit overlooked before, and which is an important parameter to consider when reading my messages. All of them will be linked and the bigger picture will appear even more cleaner.

Interesting...didn't one specific developer say that we hadn't known all there is to know about the Wii U yet?

The fact about the U-pad sapping resources makes a lot of sense and my guess is that a lot of devs will go for the simple menu. I wouldn't think something like a Madden playcall screen would sap many resources at all from the game itself.
 

tkscz

Member
You'll need someone with more knowledge than me to properly answer, but I would choose either normal mapping or neither.

The Zelda demo had a noticeable lack of tessellation when looking at the walls.

I think the garden demo looked MUCH better than the Zelda demo though. I also keep seeing rumors and articles saying that the Garden Demo was made by Epic. I'm skeptical of that though.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
You cryptic bastard. Haha, I kid, I kid.

Thanks for the reply! This kind of message helps me anticipate GDC and E3 even more!

I know, i'm sorry, shame on me :p

Of what i'm able to say, i want to keep some cards in my hands and play them from time to time until the E3, to extend the pleasure you know, lighten the wait, and help nurture the debates :)
 
The garden demo looks good, if full games look like that, then I'm pleased. And tbh, I expect that games will end up looking better since that demo was reportedly rushed and done before final specs were even finalized right?
 

Lausebub

Banned
Back at E3 2011 we were given a demo of Ubisoft’s Wii U FPS, Killer Freaks From Outer Space, and also got to chat to Ubisoft Montpellier’s Guillaume Brunier about the game and how Wii U is helping the developers create new experiences for gamers. Now we’ve got a shiny new website and all that, as part of our ongoing series of interviews with Wii U developers we’re republishing the feature that ran in issue 65 of Nintendo Gamer magazine.

The opening second of Killer Freaks From Outer Space is a massive relief. After a hardware reveal worryingly light on Wii U game footage, we’re able to see what the machine is capable of. Moonlight pours through a gloomy British night sky, glinting off the barrel of a gun with more rendered parts than the entire Popcorn Arcade catalogue. The setting – a post-alien invasion London – reminds us a bit of BioShock. Drier, certainly, but with the same lonely sense of abandonment. You are a lone cockney warrior, a one-man rebellion with a pocket packed with ammo and a mouth rammed with slang.

Playing on Wii U’s handheld screen offers huge immersive potential. While dual analogue sliders manage movement, aiming is complemented by physically shifting the screen. The end effect, from our (sadly) hands-off perspective, is of a demonstrator slowly losing his mind. He spins, bends and contorts, as if trying to avoid an invisible wasp. In actuality, every move is felt on screen. Angle it up and down and your gun follows suit. Spin 180 degrees on the spot and you spin 180 in game, too. Ubisoft Montpellier’s Guillaume Brunier calls it “spatial gameplay, a spherical dimension to what you’re playing.”

Nintendo’s virtual garden demo applies similar controls to startling effect. Physically shifting your perspective renders the screen as a window to a world beyond. There, of course, your biggest concern was a disgruntled Koi carp. Killer Freaks’ rabid (not to mention Rabbid-like) aliens require more than serene contemplation. Is Wii U really viable as a platform for first-person shooters? Brunier thinks so. “We’ve used the accelerometer feature. If you move very fast the game will know and adjust movement speed. Those familiar with FPSes know how difficult it is to go around 180 degrees. With these new controls it is a thing of the past.”

Amazingly, the E3 2o11 demo was built using unfinished machines. “The Killer Freaks team worked with the early Wii U dev kits before E3, but even we hadn’t seen the actual device until a day before the show,” Brunier tells us. His favourite feature of the final design? “The new controller’s touch screen is cool and allows different ways to interact with menus, your HUD and so on. We also love the idea of being able to play independently of your TV and how we can explore this dimension of gaming.” We can get an intriguing taste of this independent play when a second player joins the fray.

In this mode, one player arms himself with a Wii Classic Controller (Wii U handily works with all the peripherals you’ve already shelled out for) and fights off forces controlled on the tablet. Brunier explains it best. “It’s called Real-Time Enemy Director, or RED. It’s a crossover between an FPS and an RTS – think force versus strategy. You effectively become the puppet master – the alien overlord, if you will – of the Freaks by using the pad with an RTS-style display. You then spawn Freaks tactically within the real-time map, where your opponents will have to defend against the onslaught of bloodthirsty aliens you send their way in an FPS mode.”

So as a valiant warrior works a Classic Controller Pro (proving that the game can be played without motion gimmickry), another prods the tablet with cackling laughs. From his bird’s-eye view of the battlefield – the view isn’t some crappy map but a real-time 3D world render – he can plant freaks, hordes and spawners. An energy cost per unit prevents spamming, because generators must be planted to earn the energy in the first place. In this particular demo, however, Brunier’s offensive push is held back by a barrage of shotgun fire. In a nice touch, the words ‘You lose’ fill his controller screen. A private slap straight to the face.

It looks like jolly good fun, but we do wonder if local multiplayer, no matter how inventive, can pull gamers out of their life-consuming online worlds. Brunier, still smarting from his loss, is enthusiastic. “Local multiplayer has a huge place in the heart of gamers,” he says. “We in the team are – I don’t know if I can say this – big FIFA fans, and the best experiences are sat on the couch, where you can brag, or demand a rematch because you just lost and you want to get your revenge. That’s what we want out of our core experience. When I see [my opponent’s] screen that says ‘You win’, the only thing I want to do is rematch to erase this screen.”

Source: http://www.nintendo-gamer.net/2012/02/28/killer-freaks-from-outer-space-gameplay-developer-interview/
 
I know, i'm sorry, shame on me :p

Of what i'm able to say, i want to keep some cards in my hands and play them from time to time until the E3, to extend the pleasure you know, lighten the wait, and help nurture the debates :)

Totally understand. Makes the whole thing more interesting, and guessing about the new reveal is great fun anyway! :p
 
The garden demo looks good, if full games look like that, then I'm pleased. And tbh, I expect that games will end up looking better since that demo was reportedly rushed and done before final specs were even finalized right?

More likely rushed and done on hardware that had the underclocked GPU.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I know, i'm sorry, shame on me :p

Of what i'm able to say, i want to keep some cards in my hands and play them from time to time until the E3, to extend the pleasure you know, lighten the wait, and help nurture the debates :)

Now.. you need to release some really juicy things in the next few days, 'cause we need a new thread for when GDC begins.
juicy_shorts_2.jpg


BTW.. I hear that Nintendo passed on "Juicy" as the name for its next console. Discuss, discuss, discuss..
 

nordique

Member
For me it's because of statements like "Avatar Graphics" and next gen will run UE4 whereas Wii U is only a stop gap. Also Vita vs 3DS is a good visual representation.

With all due respect, three things;

1) Did you also expect the PS2 to display "Toy Story 2" graphics?

This was Toy Story 1 (1995)
toy_story-4953.jpg


This was Toy Story 2
18778485.jpg


And this is a (low quality) video of Toy Story 3 on the Playstation 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOTnDht_MuQ


Did this live up to Sony's claims? (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89876)



2) Your "claims" are very unsubstantiated. Where are you getting this information? Cause I sure have never heard any of it.


3) How is Vita - 3DS indicative of anything? Two different design philosophies in the handheld game environment does not say anything of a home console.

I mean, if that were the case, The original Game Boy was certainly lacking during the SNES/GEN days, as the GameGear was much superior right? Was SNES not comparable to the Genesis/Megadrive?

I think you're going to be very dissapointed if you're expecting "Avtar graphics" from next gen :p
 

Mr Swine

Banned
So with rumors going on that MS will unveil its next gen console at E3, I really hope that nintendo shows lots of exclusive games for the Wii U.
 

AzaK

Member
As i said in my first post here, i intend to give more infos later (but before E3 :) )
Still, your B point is fundamental. As a proof of the enlightenment of this community, some of you laid a hand on a crucial part of the Wii U that may have been a bit overlooked before, and which is an important parameter to consider when reading my messages. All of them will be linked and the bigger picture will appear even more cleaner.

You are such a tease!


I really think IdeaMan wants us to really consider the Subscreen in his hints, and I mean REALLY consider it when placed next to his "2x 360". With that in mind my optimistic self is taking IdeaMan's information to mean something like this.

His sources have seen prototype software/engines that are displaying a full scene on the main screen and a full scene re-rendered (different angle or not, but lower res of course) on the Subscreen. When one looks at those displays they think "That looks twice as good as the 360". With other assumptions in place like 720p main screen and high fidelity with shaders employed etc, that leaves me rather happy.

While I am prepared for less, I am happy to live in my own little reality until proven otherwise.
 
You are such a tease!


Currently, my optimistic self is taking IdeaMan's information to mean something like this.

His sources have seen prototype software/engines that are displaying a full scene on the main screen and a full scene re-rendered (different angle or not, but lower res of course) on the Subscreen. When one looks at those displays they think "That looks twice as good as the 360". With other assumptions in place like 720p main screen and high fidelity with shaders employed etc, that leaves me rather happy.

While I am prepared for less, I am happy to live in my own little reality until proven otherwise.

And that's 2x before most of the nice effects get added in, such as shadowing and AA, which can make a huge influence on that perception/estimate.

What about tesselation? Is that something usually added in at the end or is that built into an engine? I've seen demos, but it's something I still have not fully wrapped my mind around. It just seems like the level of geometry of an object increases as you get closer, but hasn't that pretty much always been the case in 3D games?

And I've got my hopes with BG and wsippel, tinkering w/ the tesselator is not something I can see Nintendo's engineers resisting.
 

Nibel

Member
So, maybe the problem with all known sources and their different experience is because almost everybody uses different dev kits and - very important - has a different use for the subscreen. We very often forget about that, and Ubermatik's post reminded me of that.

There will be games which will look fantastic but minimize the usage of the sub screen, maybe just putting a map or something uninspired on it. Those games can be played on both TV and uPad with no problems.

Then there will be games which make excessive use of the subscreen. Maybe with additional network features and so on.
Could those look "worse" than others?

Again, I have no clue about game development or programming, I'm just another huge fan of this thread. But I could swear that it is extremely difficult to say how powerful the system really is since you have a second screen besides system specs which can be used in different ways.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
Hours and locations for GDC seem to have been altered slightly, and the countdown in the OP may not be entirely accurate (though the expo starts first on the 5th of March). We could possibly be getting news as early as Sunday as that marks registration for both exhibitors and press:

Exhibitor Registration

West Hall 1st Floor Lobby and North Hall Upper Lobby*
Sun: 3:00pm-7:00pm

*North Upper Lobby Registration is for Exhibitors ONLY

Press Registration

West Hall
Sun: 3:00pm-5:00pm

Around the time of E3, images of shipping crates on site are often posted online a few days before the media briefings of Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony etc. Last year revealed the infamous E3 bear. While GDC is not as big, though equally important, as E3, rumors surrounding Wii U and now recently Xbox Durango could have journalists scurrying the whole facility in search of something newsworthy, and perhaps someone manages to get a snapshot of a crate reading "Wii U Demo Stand" or similar. I don't expect much but there is definately a possibility we will get some news or hints early.

http://www.gdconf.com/attend/hourslocation.html
http://www.gdconf.com/pdf/floorplans/Floorplan.pdf
 

nordique

Member
And that's 2x before most of the nice effects get added in, such as shadowing and AA, which can make a huge influence on that perception/estimate.

What about tesselation? Is that something usually added in at the end or is that built into an engine? I've seen demos, but it's something I still have not fully wrapped my mind around. It just seems like the level of geometry of an object increases as you get closer, but hasn't that pretty much always been the case in 3D games?

And I've got my hopes with BG and wsippel, tinkering w/ the tesselator is not something I can see Nintendo's engineers resisting.

Yes and it would certainly jibe with Nintendo's seeming focus on GPUs that are featured well not necessarily power behemoths.

A well balanced, strong enough modern day GPU with a developer tingly feature-set is what I can see ending its way up into the Wii U


I really don't like all this magnitude stuff though :s everyone is too fixated around it
 
Would be awesome if anybody made a full blown AAA game only for the tablet controller. I think the graphics would look extremly good considering the smaller resolution and screensize. A handheld with 2-5 x the power of the 360.. And as i play handheld games at home....
 
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