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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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Roger Danish
Member
How on earth do you manage to squeeze so many logical fallacies and non sequiturs into a single sentence?
Reallink
Member
The question is, can he really be guilty of murder in either scenario? Yea, he probably shouldn't have approached, and shouldn't have been playing Batman, but both actions were perfectly legal and well within his rights. The fact that they happened to lead to fisticuffs and an eventual shooting/death were purely coincidental. 9 times out of 10 this wouldn't have amounted to anything, it just so happens this was that 1 time--the wrong place at the wrong time.
It was word play from my and Kettch's back and forth. In a legitimate case of self defense, there is no crime, and nothing to arrest or detain someone for. Kettch wasn't getting that, or doesn't agree with the law, I was just trying to explain it.
If you kill a person you should be put under arrest until you have a trial. People are arrested in this country for carrying a sack of weed. Seriously?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
This sounds like the Simpsons episode where sideshow bob kidnaps Bart, takes him to the 'five corners' and plans to kill him by doing a bunch of acts that are perfectly legal in each state, breaking no laws, but results in the death of Bart.
The fact if the matter is that those actions did not occur in a vacuum. They occurred together and it certainly makes the situation different. Also, judging by his past history with violence and some of images from his Facebook, the guy might have some anger issues.
The guy also seems fairly large. Maybe I only saw an old photo of the murdered kid, but I don't see how he could have overpowered him.
lol wtf
PROSTHETIC
Neo Member
Your statement is false as I did not assert that an unarmed 17 year old could never pose a threat to an adult. Here's what I actually said.
I stated that in order for Zimmerman to use deadly force he needed to believe the kid could kill/inflict great bodily harm and he needed to convince a jury of that. I said I DOUBT a jury would believe that. You brought up a valid point saying what if the 17 year old kid was stronger than Zimmerman and I AGREED with you, even though you did so by using the words "foolish" and "beyond stupid" to describe my assumption. I went on to say, "If I am wrong AND their sizes are equal or Martin was infact larger/stronger, then Zimmerman's chances in front of a jury look very good." I probably should have reworded that to say, Zimmerman would have a better chance convincing a jury he acted in self defense if Martin was equal to or greater than his size. I ended my reply by mentioning the Miami Herald reported the 17 year old was 140lbs.
You were right in bringing up the fact that the kid could possibly be larger, luckily for my argument the initial assumption appears to be correct.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Anytime a person takes another person's life it should be treated like a crime until the proof says otherwise.
no guilt equals no crime makes zero sense at all
This is the worst made-up armchair legal falsehood I've ever seen on neogaf, and that includes the psychopaths who say homosexuality is a crime like bestiality.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
I cannot believe that you can kill someone and not be in custody until the investigation is completed......
Devolution
Member
Something something Florida Law something something.
Reallink
Member
Yea you guys are right on that one, it does read like nonsense. I intended the reverse "if there is no crime, there is no guilt", but posted too fast without any proof reading. Kettch was emphasizing at the time that he's guilty, he confessed, he cooperated. I was just trying to point out if there was evidence of justified self defense, there's no crime for him to be guilty of.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
You can be detained until that is proven... I know this first hand
PROSTHETIC
Neo Member
Edit: I havent read if Neogaf has rules against actually betting on things. I'm new here after all.
PROSTHETIC
Neo Member
Oh ok, I'll bet you 20 roundabout points that he's convicted of some form of wrong doing.
Devolution
Member
We do av bets on GAF, which ever one of you loses has to put up an av the winner supplies.
Uh huh. Go on.
Oh spare me.
I don't know if you were violated in some way or something that you're like this, but I assure you not everyone in the CJS/LEO is a "bad cop". If you keep thinking this way, and something happens, you may pull out an attitude and escalate the situation yourself. Guess what though, some cooks spit in people's food. Some lawyers get criminals off the hook. Some companies screw over consumers. Some millionaires collect food stamps. And even some Presidents screw over millions. There's bad apples everywhere, and free will/human nature is the reason of this. We aren't living in a Utopian society. Quit trying to degrade all law enforcement, as you're wrong, deal with it.
Watches are a great deterrent to crime, especially in areas with smaller LE budgets. It's a good way to gather information (LE witnesses 2% of crimes with their own eyes when one takes place), and puts more eyes on the streets. Of course they're not told be armed and shoot on site, but any non-felon/CR can carry a gun. If they happen to be carrying and shoot someone in self-defense legitimately, then there's no crime.
Regardless, where the person was shot is a typical spot for a defensive shot, "center mass". Pretty shocking that this guy has a criminal record, especially against a LEO and he's walking around free though.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Care for a wager?
bigboss370
Member
wasn't the case already closed/dismissed?
empty vessel
Member
The problem of rampant corruption and abuse of power in American law enforcement is not a case of bad apples. It's endemic to the profession, because there is no accountability and no oversight. The militarization of the police has contributed to an us vs. them gang mentality, which hasn't helped. Police, for example, lie with impunity every day in courtrooms across America, and, although everybody knows it, nobody can or will do anything about it and it continues unabated.
I just saw the neighbourhood watch trailer and it felt almost appropriate. I know its not funny to make light of this case but I couldn't help it.
Old?
Old?
Aaronology
Member
So Chief Lee and the Sanford PD have concluded their, uh, investigation. No charges against Zimmerman.
AFAIK, the 911 tapes have yet to be turned over.
AFAIK, the 911 tapes have yet to be turned over.
UUUUUUUUGH
Professor Beef
Banned
Dreams-Visions
Member
if anyone thinks the State Attorney's Office won't do anything, they're wrong.
smh @ the Sanford PD.
PROSTHETIC
Neo Member
Well, pretty much exactly what I said a billion times explaining why they didn't arrest him. This doesn't surprise me. I'm not sure what exactly happens next but I guess the State Attorney's Office could charge him with something then they'll have a pretrial hearing to determine if he's immune from prosecution if they find he was justified.
slidewinder
Banned
Sounds like a real piece of work. Be pretty fucked-up if this guy doesn't do time.
Devolution
Member
He knows or is related to someone in that Department confirmed.
Obviously, the skittles looked like a bag of weed/coke/Satan.
Could someone please explain to me how the police don't have probable cause in this case? Shouldn't finding a person dead with no weapon on them constitute some god damn probable cause that the shooting may not have been justified coupled with the fact that Zimmerman has had complaints against and that Zimmerman was told not to pursue?
Professor Beef
Banned
But Zimmerman is such a great guy.
White guy shoots black kid. That should be explanation enough.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
So it hasn't got any nation wide media attention at all?
not that ive seen. my friends who are pretty up to date about this kind of news were shocked to find out about it when i brought it up in conversation.
this is not being talked about at all...it's disgusting.
reptilescorpio
Member
Really? Nothing at all? This is soooo fucked. Hopefully someone at a decent sized media outlet gets pissed off with this result and champions it, something really needs to come of it.
I heard about this story for the first time yesterday...on CNN.
Well the police is offering a nice service to the taxpayers at least. I assume anyone can call and report a "suspicious person" and get a police sent out to investigate, despite the suspicious person having done nothing at all besides walking about in the public space and being black.
I assume it's a service available to anyone and not just people living in gated communities? =)
How the flying fuck can Zimmerman be allowed to follow the kid in this car, get out of the car with an armed weapon, kill the kid, and be free?
WTF at self defense? He has no business stalking the kid and killing him.
Imagine, someone follows you in my car, gets out and heckles you, shoots you dead..."Self Defense" Disgusting
WTF at self defense? He has no business stalking the kid and killing him.
Imagine, someone follows you in my car, gets out and heckles you, shoots you dead..."Self Defense" Disgusting
the youngturks reported it on their youtube show. i assume cenk is going to run this story again on his tv show as the guy is getting away with murder. here is the youtube segment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CcVCoU-elc
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