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Spec-Ops dev claims multiplayer "raped" game mechanics, like "cancerous growth"

Haven't touched the Spec-Ops multiplayer. The single player story was so good, I absolutely refuse to ruin my experience with this game by playing the multiplayer. Yes, the gameplay wasn't the best. But coming from someone who has never read Heart of Darkness or watched Apocalypse Now, I'd say the story was stellar. Well worth my money.
 
Neuromancer said:
What he said was right, the way he said it was wrong.
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It's hard for me to blame a guy who is upset with the product of his hard work over several years for using emotionally laden language. As I argued above, I don't think this use of "rape" is the same as "oh we totally raped the blue team lolz!" One use is much more trivializing than the other. And cancer is an apt metaphor for many things, and I hope we don't suddenly stop using it simply because some people have cancer.
 
I don't find anything wrong with the words he used in this context. I've also never understood the current generation pubisher obsession with adding multiplayer components to every single game. Mediocre or even bad multiplayer suites made simply to tick a marketing 'check box' or to satisfy bullshit Metacritic review criteria surely have the opposite of the intended effect on sales. I know I won't pay £40 for a game when I'll only ever touch half of it.
 
I loved the single-player (easily the most important story for a military shooter), never touched the MP because I didn't want that atmosphere or emotion ruined.

Same thing I did with Darkness 2, and other clearly single-player focused campaigns that have had tacked on MP offerings.

In terms of the weak sales, maybe $40 is really the win-win situation, where less time and cost is wasted on MP and it equals to more sales.
 
Cancerous growth is kind of the best way to describe something malignant. People don't tend to be traumatized by cancer in the way they are by rape, it's just a shitty fact of life for pretty much everyone. It would be like getting offended that someone was talking about cars because someone you know died in an accident.

Let me put it this way: I could see a college professor describing something as cancerous, whereas seeing someone use rape to describe anything other than the act itself immediately makes me think you are either a 14 year old boy or have become arrested at that stage of development.
 
Messofanego said:
(easily the most important story for a military shooter)
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It is so important that likely no one will remember it next year and it will only be referenced as a game which tried to do something that was done better later.

whalleywhat said:
People don't tend to be traumatized by cancer in the way they are by rape, it's just a shitty fact of life for pretty much everyone.
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Is that so?

Let me put it this way: I could see a college professor describing something as cancerous, whereas seeing someone use rape to describe anything other than the act itself immediately makes me think you are either a 14 year old boy or have become arrested at that stage of development.
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Sounds like an arbitrary prejudice.
 
It's nutty those offended by rape and cancer references[and "references" is putting it lightly] in gamer culture are so quickly labeled as offended by "everything", as if rape and cancer aren't both serious and horrible problems.
 
What he said echoes me perfectly. I never play tacked on multiplayer and couldn't care less whether it exists or not.

As for his choice of words, I don't have any problem with them. If anything, it shows the passion he has for the game comparing it to those things.
 
segarr said:
It's nutty those offended by rape and cancer references[and "references" is putting it lightly] in gamer culture are so quickly labeled as offended by "everything", as if rape and cancer aren't both serious and horrible problems.
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This isn't an example of "ugh, gamer culture" though. He happens to be a game designer, but there's nothing specific to gamer culture in the way he used those words. Those words are used that way all the time, by all kinds of people.
 
Yeah, poor choice of words, but I appreciate the sentiment.

I'm always glad to hear developers call out the shit they're forced to do rather than just tow the line of, "oh it's awesome, it really adds something and never took away our focus from the core experience."
 
rape (n,v) - an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.

cancer (n) - any evil condition or thing that spreads destructively; blight.

You can use the word rape without implying sexual violations or cancer without implying tumors. Sometimes, words have multiple meanings. For instance, if I said that the way you guys rape the English language is a cancer, I have at once used the two words correctly and implied nothing offensive (except for the intended insult, of course).
 
Riposte said:
Sounds like an arbitrary prejudice.
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No, it's based on the effect those words have on people and the culture from which that usage emerges. I don't have the relevant info to prove that referencing cancer has any different effect on people than referencing rape, I just think that it does and that's part of the basis of my prejudice. Certain dialects form around sub-cultures, and this is often used to discern whether people belong to those cultures or not. This is just as true for people inside these cultures as outside. Of course, these judgments can be wrong-headed, like assuming that someone is dumb because they're from the South and someone else is smart because they're British, but I don't think adolescent males are particularly at risk from or concerned about my judgments.
 
I don't like the way he said it, but I wish more devs would go on record about how forcing a multiplayer mode into a single player game hurts the product and is a waste of time.
 
I personally don't have issue with the wording because I am a crass son of a bitch.

However, as someone trying to sell products to people it might not be in your best interest to flash words that stir up that kind of emotion for people who have been affected by cancer/rape.
 
This cancerous doubt on whether someone should be offended or express concern about the use of ubiquitous words rapes my ability to reason.
 
I don't have a problem with the figurative use of those words in the context presented. OP strikes me as being overly sensitive and dwelling too much on literal meaning rather than focusing on the actual message in the words.
 
Sqorgar said:
rape (n,v) - an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.

cancer (n) - any evil condition or thing that spreads destructively; blight.

You can use the word rape without implying sexual violations or cancer without implying tumors. Sometimes, words have multiple meanings.
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This. The guy is just using the english language, some people really need to get a grip.

mescalineeyes said:
Is it just me or is this really poorly worded?
Rape and cancer are things that actually scar/kill actual people.
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So are war and guns (and white phosphorus). It's ok to make a game about such horrible subject matter, but let's not use overly harsh language when we have an intelligent discussion about it?
 
Riposte said:
EDIT: Two more things, since this is hardly a videogame thread to begin with...

I find it funny people are making separate judgment values on words inconsistently. "Cancer is okay, but rape is NOT". We could throw in murder, so we can have the classical "Which is worse? Rape or murder?" Maybe someone can bring up how sacrilegious it is to use God's name in vain and then get piled on by everyone on GAF.

I'm noticing a lot of "I'm not offended, but... I'm offended." If you are not finding his grammar or writing style distasteful (in other words: saying he is a bad writer/speaker), then you are probably offended by this particular hyperbole. Admitting you are offended by something would be a more honest position to start from.
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The use he made of the words was correct (i'm not english, but going by the definition on the Oxford Dictionaries Online, he was) though i personally made a distiction between the two analogies solely for all the rape culture debacle, that would put the "rape" allegory in sort of a special place.
I am personally not offended by it, but if i had to guess a difference between the two in this case, that would be the reason.
That said, i'm not entirely sure of all this thing myself, so.. anyway, his wording was correct, if a bit dramatic.
 
People who have issues with the use of words, don´t worry, the future is coming:

demolition-man-machine.jpg
 
Sqorgar said:
rape (n,v) - an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.

cancer (n) - any evil condition or thing that spreads destructively; blight.

You can use the word rape without implying sexual violations or cancer without implying tumors. Sometimes, words have multiple meanings. For instance, if I said that the way you guys rape the English language is a cancer, I have at once used the two words correctly and implied nothing offensive (except for the intended insult, of course).
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x2jrv.gif
 
Hah, the thread got so sidetracked I forgot there must have been some game-related tibit to discuss.

Spec-Ops is one of my favorite games I played this year...I had no idea it had a multiplayer mode. I think that says enough about how memorable or meaningful it was to me
 
As of the time of this writing, Spec Ops: The Line has a Metacritic review score of 75, and has sold, by one estimate, fewer than a quarter of a million copies.
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That's a fucking shame. It'll be on my GOTY list anyhow.
 
I came in here expecting to discuss my agreement with this assertion that gratuitous MP modes are a bad thing. Instead I see another thread where people are getting offended over wording...

How are people this sensitive? I'm a female ffs, and I never would have picked up on an issue with the wording in this case (or the Borderlands 2 incident for that matter) unless it was pointed out to me.
 
Cory Davis is a professional; he should know better and choose his words more carefully. He'd better hope that his extreme wording doesn't come back to bite him in the future.
 
HoosTrax said:
I came in here expecting to discuss my agreement with this assertion that gratuitous MP modes are a bad thing. Instead I see another thread where people are getting offended over wording...

How are people this sensitive? I'm a female ffs, and I never would have picked up on an issue with the wording in this case (or the Borderlands 2 incident for that matter) unless it was pointed out to me.
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I for one am offended that you're offended that I'm offended -_-
 
GravityMan said:
Cory Davis is a professional; he should know better and choose his words more carefully. He'd better hope that his extreme wording doesn't come back to bite him in the future.
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I think you're seriously overestimating how much the average person cares about those words being used metaphorically. What might actually cause him trouble in the future is that he's complaining openly about the development process he experienced.
 
Well, Cory Davis was nice enough to respond to me and I think I owe it to him to post this here:

"I'm sorry about your Dad. Spec Ops: The Line has nothing to do with anyone's physical health. I was speaking metaphorically."

While I am still unhappy about the metaphor he used, at least he was being a gentleman about me calling him out on it and I appreciate this very much.
 
He's totally correct. Multiplayer has changed how we fundamentally think about more than a few genres.

Oh, this thread was actually about bullshit political correctness? I'm glad society has forgotten that rape could and was used to talk about things other than forced sex. It's like in the last 10 years, everyone who hasn't been raped has decided to take offense to the word.
 
BigJiantRobut said:
The cancer analogy seems like a fair, if vitriolic way to describe unnecessary multiplayer. Rape sorta pushes it into "ok guys yeah I get it but really, video games" territory.
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This. The rape comment is kinda over the line. I'm not one to get offended but it's poorly used here. But I get his point about the "cancerous growth" of tacked-on multiplayer that is never played so I have no offense toward that.
 
Rape is a bit over the top, but considering how cancer works, it seems like an appropriate comparison. One thing with ideas that spread rampantly and take over the project in a negative fashion--sounds like cancer to me.


Littlegator said:
He's totally correct. Multiplayer has changed how we fundamentally think about more than a few genres.

Oh, this thread was actually about bullshit political correctness? I'm glad society has forgotten that rape could and was used to talk about things other than forced sex. It's like in the last 10 years, everyone who hasn't been raped has decided to take offense to the word.
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The only instance that comes to mind is "the Rape of Nanking." Was it a lot more common than this? The history of words and their usage has always been interesting to me.
 
segarr said:
It's nutty those offended by rape and cancer references[and "references" is putting it lightly] in gamer culture are so quickly labeled as offended by "everything", as if rape and cancer aren't both serious and horrible problems.
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If you don't like The Witcher 2, then you are a prude.
 
whalleywhat said:
Cancerous growth is kind of the best way to describe something malignant. People don't tend to be traumatized by cancer in the way they are by rape, it's just a shitty fact of life for pretty much everyone.
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You're right! Let me go tell my 12 year old self with melanoma that it's OK, you're not going to die. The doctors and statistics are all wrong.

No, you're fucking wrong. Cancer and rape are completely different kinds of trauma, but don't you dare fucking say that cancer is somehow less traumatic. I swear to god, if you think the horrible feeling of betrayal and defile of rape comes anywhere close to cancer's painful, horrible, blurry, depressed months or years of your life, and knowing that nearly-imminent death on the horizon, you've got another thing coming.
 
C'mon man who gives a shit. He's speaking metaphorically. If you can't handle words like rape and cancer being used AT ALL then you probably need your head checked. But if you want to do the mental gymnastics required to infer that he is somehow a rape apologist for using that term then please, kill yourself.
 
mescalineeyes said:
Hm, well then maybe it IS just me. As I said, fresh wound. Maybe I am just being overly sensitive. Still doesn't change my feelings on it.

Keep in mind, I am not a native speaker, but a "cancerous growth" for me nothing else than "cancer". I am also not a doctor.
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It is just you. "Cancer" as a term is used often times as a metaphor for something else. There's nothing objectionable about that.

"This institution is a cancer upon our society."

I've lost family to cancer, and I feel for you, but you're being too sensitive about the use of the word "cancer".

If you ask me, the use of "cancerous growth" is pretty apt.

mescalineeyes said:
Well, Cory Davis was nice enough to respond to me and I think I owe it to him to post this here:

"I'm sorry about your Dad. Spec Ops: The Line has nothing to do with anyone's physical health. I was speaking metaphorically."

While I am still unhappy about the metaphor he used, at least he was being a gentleman about me calling him out on it and I appreciate this very much.
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It could be that you're not a native english speaker. This is a very common metaphorical term, and its used particularly because the connotation is very apt.

I'm sorry to hear about your father, though.

Again, it's a METAPHOR.

Billiechu said:
Because rape is used in this context all the time?
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Uh...it is, actually.

This isn't inappropriate use of the word rape.

It's not like he said "Yeah! We raped the sales charts!" He's using rape to denote a negative outcome, not glorifying an action with the word "rape". That is pretty damn accurate word use.
 
Soon we aren't going to be allowed to use any words with their intended meaning. Seriously, what's going on with this world. :/

"OH! That word can be linked to sex! Don't use naughty words! BAD WORDS!"


.... No, just no.
 
Guys there just sounds we make with our mouth, or in this case typed characters. He gets his point across, I understand completely what he means. There's no reason to be offended by this and if the word rape offends you then I feel sorry for you, but we cant just outlaw or feel certain words should not be said.
 
TheSeks said:
This. The rape comment is kinda over the line. I'm not one to get offended but it's poorly used here. But I get his point about the "cancerous growth" of tacked-on multiplayer that is never played so I have no offense toward that.
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Is not over the line. Look up the definition on the word "Rape" It has various meanings. He used it correctly.
 
Omega_Tom_Hanks said:
If you can't handle words like rape and cancer being used AT ALL then you probably need your head checked. But if you want to do the mental gymnastics required to infer that he is somehow a rape apologist for using that term then please, kill yourself.
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Way to be an insensitive, patronizing shmuck.
 
I'm totally in agreement with those that feel rape should not be used to describe favorable conclusions (like raping an opponent in a video game). That's just wrong.

However, when rape is used by its actual dictionary definition, I seriously do not understand the problem.
 
mescalineeyes said:
Well, Cory Davis was nice enough to respond to me and I think I owe it to him to post this here:

"I'm sorry about your Dad. Spec Ops: The Line has nothing to do with anyone's physical health. I was speaking metaphorically."

While I am still unhappy about the metaphor he used, at least he was being a gentleman about me calling him out on it and I appreciate this very much.
Click to expand...

ibaQ9RpVn6cGq5.jpg


He was way too nice to you.
 
The rape comment seems a bit excessive but something growing like a cancer is nothing new. People use that all the time.
 
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