Is the ps4 going to be using Super BluRay or something? Or a CELL/RSX combo built in? Don't see how MS will have a price advantage unless Sony goes batshit insane. I don't think that will happen because vita is pretty cheaply manufactured and simple design.
Except Uncharted and God of War sells just as well as Gears in that 5-6 million range. While Gran Turismo is there to push out Halo like numbers.
Then they have a slew of others selling 2 - 4 million which is a success for any title. Like LBP (4.5 million), infamous (~2 million), Killzone (~2 million).
But if you want to throw opinion about disappointments into a discussion, I wouldn't really be doing it while championing Halo
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MS has two decent IP's. Thats it. None of their IP's sell well and most are mediocre IMO. I dont think Sony has anything to worry about. For a system that was overpriced and had virtually no functional online system it still outsold 360 since its release and continues to. Next gen they do not have much to worry about if they build on what they learnt this gen with online infrastructure.
Only 2 decent IPs? Are you talking about quality? If that's the case the what even is the point in saying it as it's extremely subjective. If you are talking sales then you are flat out wrong as shown in other posts in this thread.
You also laud Sony's HW sales despite the fact they are still behind the 360 in WW sales to date (they have the disadvantages you list but other advantages that you don't).
I am try to see your point because MS has not made another IP as big as Halo in the last decade either .
Your talking about Gear but UC and GOW sell just as good not to mention that Sony has big games in allot of genres .
GT was just as big as Halo but it takes longer to get there and sales down thanks to Japan .
In terms of first party Sony problem this gen was bring out games to slow expect for UC.
Gran Turismo is nowhere near Halo numbers, you get one game every five years from the series and that one sells well, nothing like the Halo franchise has sold. Killzone and Infamous 2 should be about double the sales for each game to be a healthy first party title. The first LBP sold well but LBP2 sold half as many copies as the first game. Not going to be a long term franchise for the PS4 with a decline like that after a full 3 year buildup. And you are overlooking the abysmal failures of Starhawk, MAG, Resistance 3 and Twisted Metal recently. Who knows if Uncharted will be given to another developer for the PS4 launch, but if UC3 is anything to go by Naughty Dog is ready to move on from it. And lets not forget the big holiday game they managed to scrounge up this year is Playstation All-Stars. Sony's first party has been struggling the last couple of years and the sales numbers back it up. Maybe Beyond and Last of Us will be bright spots, but that remains to be seen.
Basically, as someone who bought a PS3 purely to play Sony exclusives I am not encouraged by their game development going into the next gen.
And Sony hasn't come up with one to match Halo. Like someone else already mentioned, Sony has been able to get out one GT game this gen to Halo's four. They've allowed that IP to languish.
In my opinion, Sony should give their teams free reign to do something really new on the PS4 - something that could hopefully define the next console generation as different from this one. That's typically what makes system sellers and phenomenon franchises. Halo was one of the franchises that defined the last console generation because it got out there first with an FPS in a way console gamers hadn't seen before. Gears sort of did the same thing on the 360 for third person shooters and now a whole generation of shooters take after it.
I don't remember anyone saying everything's like Uncharted now since E3. I haven't seen anything else that looks like it's trying to imitate that franchise. Even Naughty Dog admitted that UC's somewhat "dark" tone compared to Jak and Crash was something Sony demanded because they saw that console games were trending towards darker shooters.
And Sony hasn't come up with one to match Halo. Like someone else already mentioned, Sony has been able to get out one GT game this gen to Halo's four. They've allowed that IP to languish.
Pretty much this.
In my opinion, Sony should give their teams free reign to do something really new on the PS4 - something that could hopefully define the next console generation as different from this one. That's typically what makes system sellers and phenomenon franchises. Halo was one of the franchises that defined the last console generation because it got out there first with an FPS in a way console gamers hadn't seen before. Gears sort of did the same thing on the 360 for third person shooters and now a whole generation of shooters take after it.
I don't remember anyone saying everything's like Uncharted now since E3. I haven't seen anything else that looks like it's trying to imitate that franchise. Even Naughty Dog admitted that UC's somewhat "dark" tone compared to Jak and Crash was something Sony demanded because they saw that console games were trending towards darker shooters.
Gran Turismo regularly sells over 10 million. You are right it's not as frequent as Halo, but then, Halo has been selling less since moving to a more frequent release schedule and losing its long legs. Again, Halo is a measure of phenomenal success, not of success itself. You don't need to sell Halo numbers to have a successful title. Suggesting that 2 million isn't good enough for example is ridiculous. If 4 million on one console was the entry point for what is considered a success, you could count the number of currently successful franchises on your handsGran Turismo is nowhere near Halo numbers, you get one game every five years from the series and that one sells well, nothing like the Halo franchise has sold. Killzone and Infamous 2 should be about double the sales for each game to be a healthy first party title. Infamous 2 sold terribly, 1.28 million copies. A million under the first Infamous, encouraging sign for that franchise. The first LBP sold well but LBP2 sold half as many copies as the first game. Not going to be a long term franchise for the PS4 with a decline like that after a full 3 year buildup. And you are overlooking the abysmal failures of Starhawk, MAG, Resistance 3 and Twisted Metal recently. Who knows if Uncharted will be given to another developer for the PS4 launch, but if UC3 is anything to go by Naughty Dog is ready to move on from it. And lets not forget the big holiday game they managed to scrounge up this year is Playstation All-Stars. Sony's first party has been struggling the last couple of years and the sales numbers back it up. Maybe Beyond and Last of Us will be bright spots, but that remains to be seen.
Basically, as someone who bought a PS3 purely to play Sony exclusives I am not encouraged by their game development going into the next gen.
Oh i agree Sony did crap with GT IP which something that need to change next gen .
They take to long to bring out sequels to there big IP expect UC .
Still MS had not made any big or semi small IP this gen at all .
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I think they'll be better positioned to extract more of the IP they established on the PS3 with the PS4. We have to admit that Sony relied too heavily on 3rd party software with the PS2 and PS1, it was only because Nintendo and Msft took control of these commanding positions that they were forced to invest heavily in 1st party software that could impact the market significantly, instead of just filling a niche in the software catalog as before. Next gen expect them to have a better handle on 1st party studios, as they'll have to perform up to the standards set by ND.
Gran Turismo regularly sells over 10 million. You are right it's not as frequent as Halo, but then, Halo has been selling less since moving to a more frequent release schedule and losing its long legs. Again, Halo is a measure of phenomenal success, not of success itself. You don't need to sell Halo numbers to have a successful title. Suggesting that 2 million isn't good enough for example is ridiculous. If 4 million on one console was the entry point for what is considered a success, you could count the number of currently successful franchises on your hands
GT has been selling less and less with each new version. The majority of sales are in Europe now. It has lost most of its worldwide appeal. The last version didn't even pass 1 million in Japan.
As I said before, I think they are positioning themselves for that. Polyphony have surely been working on a new GT for awhile, and it would be a complete misstep if it were a PS3 game instead of an early PS4 game. SSM is likely making a new IP for PS4 and Guerrilla has two projects in the pipeline and at least one of them is next gen. I'd anticipate that the Uncharted team moved on to PS4 once UC3 was done. Media Molecule may have a new IP, but I'm expecting that for PS3. As for LittleBigPlanet, Tarsier seems to have taken the reins on that and the Vita game seems to be the best yet. They might work on the next one for PS4 as MM have moved on.I think so also but Sony really need to maximize there IPs for PS4 in the first 2 years they should be a LBP , GOW , UC , GT , Killzone LOU ( if it sell great ) sequels.
Along with making big new IP during the first 2 years of the system life.
And the majority of Halos sales are in America, we don't hold that against it though now do we?GT has been selling less and less with each new version. The majority of sales are in Europe now. It has lost most of its worldwide appeal. The last version didn't even pass 1 million in Japan.
And the majority of Halos sales are in America, we don't hold that against it though now do we?
Smaller userbase, smaller sales. Going by GT4 and GT5 figures, it's basically 1 million games per 10 million platform owners.
Gran Turismo regularly sells over 10 million. You are right it's not as frequent as Halo, but then, Halo has been selling less since moving to a more frequent release schedule and losing its long legs. Again, Halo is a measure of phenomenal success, not of success itself. You don't need to sell Halo numbers to have a successful title. Suggesting that 2 million isn't good enough for example is ridiculous. If 4 million on one console was the entry point for what is considered a success, you could count the number of currently successful franchises on your hands
Those games never looked like being monster hits. Does that mean Sony should only ever commission titles that are huge budget blockbusters? The aim of those games was to make back the small devlopment budget and then bank on the rest. You have a very fallacious way of thinking where you seem to assume that anything not fitting into the blockbuster category is a failure.
If UC3 is anything to go by? What is that even supposed to mean?
Going from GT3 to GT4 was an increase of userbase but sales were down.
Going from GT3 to GT4 was an increase of userbase but sales were down.
And yes a game selling 2 million copies being a failure is insane, but its the reality of AAA HD development. Take these quotes about Dead Space 3 and Darksiders 2 as proof of that.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478566
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484068
Why do you think so many studios have gone to multiplatform development? Do you really think Starhawk made back its dev budget at 170k copies or Resitance 3 at 1.21 million? Let alone being games that sell consoles? Which is the purpose of first party games.
We are talking about Sony first party games in the context of the PS4. You don't sell new hardware with low budget titles. You do it with huge budget blockbusters and I don't know what AAA game experience Sony 1st party is capable of making for the PS4 right now. Gran Turismo is years away, Naughty Dog seems done with Uncharted. So do you trust a new developer on the series to make another system selling Uncharted game at launch? That is why It is so crazy to me they are using Last of Us and Beyond as post holiday games instead of bumping them to the PS4. It sure looks like they are going to launch after the Durango so third party's aren't going to be the big selling point for the system. The launch of the PS4 is all on Sony first party games making system sellers and that worries me.
Completely the opposite in Europe. USA ≠ world.
I was going by the worldwide numbers you posted.
Uncharted 3 was rushed out the door because ND set a release date early. They said they regret that, in the end it was not as polished as they would have liked. Uncharted 2 is amongst the most critically acclaimed games of all time. Slamming them for not hitting that high bar every time is a bit unfair. Its still a AAA game, it scored well and sold great. No Gears or Halo game has hit the high bar of their initial entry either, but I don't see you mentioning that.On UC3: I just beat it the other night, I was not very impressed by it. Nowhere near as good as UC2. Controls, story and gameplay all seemed worse than UC2. The big set pieces were nowhere near as entertaining as UC2. From listening to podcasts and talking to my friends I don't think I am alone in feeling that way either. Not a bad game by any means, but nowhere close to sequel we should have gotten from UC2.
And yes a game selling 2 million copies being a failure is insane, but its the reality of AAA HD development. Take these quotes about Dead Space 3 and Darksiders 2 as proof of that.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478566
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484068
Why do you think so many studios have gone to multiplatform development? Do you really think Starhawk made back its dev budget at 170k copies or Resitance 3 at 1.21 million? Let alone being games that sell consoles? Which is the purpose of first party games.
We are talking about Sony first party games in the context of the PS4. You don't sell new hardware with low budget titles. You do it with huge budget blockbusters and I don't know what AAA game experience Sony 1st party is capable of making for the PS4 right now. Gran Turismo is years away, Naughty Dog seems done with Uncharted. So do you trust a new developer on the series to make another system selling Uncharted game at launch? That is why It is so crazy to me they are using Last of Us and Beyond as post holiday games instead of bumping them to the PS4. It sure looks like they are going to launch after the Durango so third party's aren't going to be the big selling point for the system. The launch of the PS4 is all on Sony first party games making system sellers and that worries me.
They don't tell the whole truth though. The sales went down from GT3 to GT4 in USA and Japan, but increased in Europe.
So what?You are just agreeing with me. The game used to have worldwide appeal that has been declining with each new version since GT3 where as Europe is the region proping up the games sales currently.
You are just agreeing with me. The game used to have worldwide appeal that has been declining with each new version since GT3 where as Europe is the region proping up the games sales currently.
And Sony hasn't come up with one to match Halo. Like someone else already mentioned, Sony has been able to get out one GT game this gen to Halo's four. They've allowed that IP to languish.
360/Forza might have something to do with the sales decrease in NA, rather than the decline of the GT franchise's popularity in itself.
Have you seen Forza US sales? Its safe to say thats factually wrong.
Now this is just an absolutely ridiculous argument. The platform shouldn't be referred to as a strength or weakness. You use your strengths and weaknesses to bring the best out of a platform with your ideas. If you really think Naughty Dog can only do great console games and not great handheld games, then that just means they're an untalented lot and completely overrated.
Really? You think that taking a team away from a design direction they have had for years, their custom engines and tools refined for large assets and a certain amount of power, to just hop on a newer/weaker hardware and make magic out of this?
Games take time to make. And there is alot of work that isn't known to the average consumer. It isn't as easy as flicking the switch and it is highly illogical to take these teams of the direction they have planned and worked for. Given the time windows gamers expect (impatient bunch really) I doubt anything good will come out of that. A situation made worse by reviewers now comparing Vita games to console iterations.
I would like to see the post with the sales numbers and please no Vg charts .
The problem i have with people is they seem to think Sony IPs can't match MS own which is wrong .
Still MS is smart while Sony is stupid MS big IPs get a game every 2 years but for Sony that only happen with UC .
Which is something that needs to change next gen and yes i know Halo is bigger than any Sony IP thanks to GT drop in sales .
In Europe, Sony still seems to be ruler of the consoles. In my country for example (Belgium), people play PS3 way more than Wii & Xbox 360. I feel like Sony's culture and games fit more with the European market at times, how weird that might sound. People have been choosing Sony ever since the PS1 here. We hardly see any Xbox commercials either.
Microsoft totally crushed Sony in America though, that's for sure.
I don't think it works that way. Maybe one day Naughty Dog could have four teams but that should be up to them. I believe part of the reason Naughty Dog expanded is because they were attracting some of the best talent in the industry but there is only so much room in one team for that. It was more a natural expansion and a way of keeping talentInstead of buying more 1st party studios, SCE should add more teams within their top studios. Four teams at Naughty Dog; Uncharted team, The Last of Us team, PSV team and new IP team.
Sony can't afford to subsidize hardware and MS can. If MS wants to come in at a lower price, not much SCE can do, especially considering Kaz's stated goal of a 10% operating margin for the gaming unit.
increase[/B] of userbase but sales were down.
Eh? PS3 is at almost 9 million in Japan and should finish the gen just short of Wii's sales, and has pretty much had the market over Wii for a couple years now. There is room for improvement definitely, but hardly the picture you paint. SCEJ definitely needs to up their game. I don't have much faith in them though. As for Vita, they can't really concede a market they never had.I think too many people are handwaving away just how bad Sony's situation is. Nintendo has Sony in a position where the PS4 has to be a Wii-level success. The damage that PS3 and Vita has done to Sony's gaming division isn't something to ignore. For one, get rid of that suicidal loss-leader model. Just doesn't work. Also, Sony, your main competition is Nintendo, not Microsoft. How they just ceded Japan to Nintendo with hardly a peep is just unacceptable.
I think too many people are handwaving away just how bad Sony's situation is. Nintendo has Sony in a position where the PS4 has to be a Wii-level success. The damage that PS3 and Vita has done to Sony's gaming division isn't something to ignore. For one, get rid of that suicidal loss-leader model. Just doesn't work. Also, Sony, your main competition is Nintendo, not Microsoft. How they just ceded Japan to Nintendo with hardly a peep is just unacceptable.
You know, not the whole money war chest of MS will be under Xbox division´s command you know. Even if MS can afford it, do you really think that MS would want to lose so much money in the beginning? It´s like Xbox division has infinite amount of money to make these loses.
huh?
For one, get rid of that suicidal loss-leader model. Just doesn't work
You know, not the whole money war chest of MS will be under Xbox division´s command you know. Even if MS can afford it, do you really think that MS would want to lose so much money in the beginning? It´s like Xbox division has infinite amount of money to make these loses.
You don't lead the market by keeping up with the Jones'.
Sure, well not want, but are willing to. They gave away mp and crushed Winamp. They bundled IE and crushed Netscape. And they lost billions starting up Xbox. Lost another few billion at the start of the generation and resorted to funding and publishing Japanese games (until they realized it was unnecssary). Microsoft is quite capable of handling short term losses for long term gains.
Vita is a perfect example of this - it is a platform that has no identity, no major strong suit to separate it from its competitors. It's a reflection of Sony themselves -Jack of all trades, master of none.