yeah
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo 4 |OT| Spartans Never Die
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
yeah
ElzarTheBam
Member
BO2 is for hinge heads.
I thought the encounter design (at least in terms of level design specifically) was brilliant actually, but yes the AI needs maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaajor work.
And new enemy types. Prometheans are just so one dimensional. The encounters play out with the same priority level beginning with Watchers and ending with Knights and there's just not enough variation there.
With elites you have (had?) sworded Knights who would rush you, Plasma elites focused on suppression through tearing down your shields and forcibly pushing you into a defensive position, Generals who wielded power weapons, commanding respect and constant pressure as you must take out all the others first before you can reasonably engage them, etc. This existed in Brutes too.
With Prometheans, if you back up slightly, they do not pursue. And even if they do pursue, they give up so quickly and never alter their approach. You are never in a position where there is enough ambiguity in strategy that requires you to make a decision that has gravity to it.
I understand that Halo 1 didn't have that much enemy variety too though, it was build up over time. At the time though, the AI was something phenomenal, and complimented the sandbox well enough. With Halo 4 we have shells of races we're used to and not used to, made more threatening than they actually are by constraining ammo and strength in numbers, both fairly cheap ways to add strategic difficulty.
Prometheans need a brute, better specializations (and even better physical identification for the identification too, would it have killed them to vary them in colour more?), another light infantry role, and they need to diversify the ton of useful roles of the Watcher into multiple different units (perhaps an engineer and a medic/helper/grenade interceptor).
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
For me it´s the worst since Halo 2 - really disappointed in Halo 4.
KI got worse, the levels/missions are average at best and lacking atmosphere (is it so difficult to make an Halo game with levels like the Covernant, the Ark, Silent Cartographer or Assault on the Control Room?), the soundtrack is non existent (343`s composer/music guy doesn`t get it), game is ultra short, masterchief talks way too much...
No, i´m expected more.
It's certainly not for the weak, especially on Haven.
I am more often weak than otherwise.
Agree with you completely. I actually don't mind killing Prometheans because of how awesome they look but AI-wise they are a big step back from Elites. If they ever bring back ODST Firefight with great netcode it would be awesome to see all enemy types, Flood included, in the sandbox.
This is a good thing.
In previous Halos I was all about Team Slayer, Double Team, maybe a little Swat, barely used to touch Big Team.
But in this game I'm finding Big Team the most fun playlist. The levels are prettier and atleast my early impression is they are better designed than most smaller maps, and the bigger levels work great with sprint being standard. And since there's more ground to cover, the tactical aspects like holding certain areas become clearer than in the too chaotic Infinity slayer. The many power weapons are also much less annoying in Big Team than when you have 3 shotguns, 1 sword, 2 rocket launchers and 1 weird promethean weapon that kills anything instantly running around on Haven at the same time.
Actually I'm loving Swat too. The multi is awesome in the right playlists, Infinity is just too much.
Also 343 needs to work FAST on new maps. Way too few maps to ship with imo. But please no Forge maps, they ruined Reach.
But in this game I'm finding Big Team the most fun playlist. The levels are prettier and atleast my early impression is they are better designed than most smaller maps, and the bigger levels work great with sprint being standard. And since there's more ground to cover, the tactical aspects like holding certain areas become clearer than in the too chaotic Infinity slayer. The many power weapons are also much less annoying in Big Team than when you have 3 shotguns, 1 sword, 2 rocket launchers and 1 weird promethean weapon that kills anything instantly running around on Haven at the same time.
Actually I'm loving Swat too. The multi is awesome in the right playlists, Infinity is just too much.
Also 343 needs to work FAST on new maps. Way too few maps to ship with imo. But please no Forge maps, they ruined Reach.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Not for me. I'm so disappointed in this game. :-(
They have plenty of maps,b ut the problem is two fold. 1) Not all maps are in all playlists. 2) People only vote for a select 1-2 in each playlist over and over.
The first map pack for 3 new maps is next month too though. I'd honestly just turn off map voting altogether.
I have a lot of issues about the combat that I want to talk about, but the one that's bugging me the most right now: clarity.
In past Halo games, the different ranks within the classes of enemies were crystal clear. I'm going to use Reach as an example, both because it excelled in this area and because it was the most recent Halo game.
The different ranks of Elites and the weapons they carried were very easy to distinguish, and quickly, in Reach. Elite Generals were bright gold, the jetpack dudes had a unique profile and the jetpacks gave off a pronounced audio cue that they were nearby. Regular Elites in red stood out from the crowd. Elite Ultras dropped in with their bright white/silver armor and cleaned house. And so on - different ranks of the same class, easy to distinguish and then respond to their different behaviors and capabilities. I knew I could take down a jetpack Elite with four shots to shield and a headshot, a regular Elite, seven DMR rounds.
I could also tell exactly what weapon they were carrying at all times. Even from long range, the profile of an Elite with a Concussion Rifle versus a Plasma Repeater versus a FRG were totally distinct and instantly recognizable.
I'm saying this because I have a very hard time telling these things apart in Halo 4. Sometimes it takes a few shots to strip shields off an Elite, sometimes much more. Sometimes get surprised with they tag me with an FRG, because I couldn't make out that they had one. Visually, I have no idea how to distinguish the classes. The colors all look pretty similar, so I can't tell if one is greater threat than another. I treat all of them the same, and sometimes get surprised.
So there's a real lack of clarity here. With Reach I'd respond rapidly to different threats. The classes of Elites carry different weapons, move at different speeds, and have various levels of health and shielding. I would identify that and respond quickly, swapping weapons, taking up different vantage points (and in the case of packs of Elite Ultras, running like hell). That meant there was a lot of variety to the combat - I was constantly changing up tactics moment to moment, in ways large and small, to account for what was on the battlefield.
I don't do that with Halo 4,because there's a lack of visual variety. Because I can't make out the various threats and capability levels, combat feels very flat and plodding. (Other factors contribute to this, but that's for another wall of text.)
Some of this may be because the game is new and I'm still learning them. But even with concerted effort, I'm still not able to figure this stuff out because the visuals just don't pop enough to communicate the threat levels correctly. It really takes away from the game.
In past Halo games, the different ranks within the classes of enemies were crystal clear. I'm going to use Reach as an example, both because it excelled in this area and because it was the most recent Halo game.
The different ranks of Elites and the weapons they carried were very easy to distinguish, and quickly, in Reach. Elite Generals were bright gold, the jetpack dudes had a unique profile and the jetpacks gave off a pronounced audio cue that they were nearby. Regular Elites in red stood out from the crowd. Elite Ultras dropped in with their bright white/silver armor and cleaned house. And so on - different ranks of the same class, easy to distinguish and then respond to their different behaviors and capabilities. I knew I could take down a jetpack Elite with four shots to shield and a headshot, a regular Elite, seven DMR rounds.
I could also tell exactly what weapon they were carrying at all times. Even from long range, the profile of an Elite with a Concussion Rifle versus a Plasma Repeater versus a FRG were totally distinct and instantly recognizable.
I'm saying this because I have a very hard time telling these things apart in Halo 4. Sometimes it takes a few shots to strip shields off an Elite, sometimes much more. Sometimes get surprised with they tag me with an FRG, because I couldn't make out that they had one. Visually, I have no idea how to distinguish the classes. The colors all look pretty similar, so I can't tell if one is greater threat than another. I treat all of them the same, and sometimes get surprised.
So there's a real lack of clarity here. With Reach I'd respond rapidly to different threats. The classes of Elites carry different weapons, move at different speeds, and have various levels of health and shielding. I would identify that and respond quickly, swapping weapons, taking up different vantage points (and in the case of packs of Elite Ultras, running like hell). That meant there was a lot of variety to the combat - I was constantly changing up tactics moment to moment, in ways large and small, to account for what was on the battlefield.
I don't do that with Halo 4,because there's a lack of visual variety. Because I can't make out the various threats and capability levels, combat feels very flat and plodding. (Other factors contribute to this, but that's for another wall of text.)
Some of this may be because the game is new and I'm still learning them. But even with concerted effort, I'm still not able to figure this stuff out because the visuals just don't pop enough to communicate the threat levels correctly. It really takes away from the game.
Well, it's not like Halo for offers the option to play as hinge-heads.
Seriously, what the fuck? For once we can spawn with Covie weapons (ignoring that the Carbine sucks, as does every none-DMR weapon*) but can't play as an Elite. FFS!
*Changed my opinion on the Lightrifle, why use it when the DMR wins against it? And against everything?
Me too. So many things in this game are backward steps from the series standard IMO.
This was one of my concerns also. I always wanted a Halo game that looked more realistic than the other games, but when Halo 4 arrived it became evident that the more 'cartoony' feel of its predecessors was there as a combat mechanic.
I'm going to agree with you on this one. I've been killed a number of times simply because I wasn't able to tell what class of enemy I was dealing with until it's too late. The Prometheans capable of one hit kills (using the plasma sword equivalent) are terrible in that regard as you can be killed out of nowhere without ever expecting it.
It's not game ruining but it certainly lacks the polish of Bungie's efforts in that regard.
Yeah. I didn't mention Prometheans, but I have the same issues there as well. On a few occasions I've run up to Knights to melee or plug them with something up close only to meet the Scattershot and disintegrate. The Knights themselves are pretty similar, but I really can't tell the Promethean weapons apart, even from up close. Their design language is so similar, the different threat levels don't pop.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Are the Skulls supposed to be already unlocked? I quite enjoyed finding them with my friends in previous Halo games 
Also, I found the way the Terminals were handled to be very disappointing. They're not in the game itself (weren't finished in time?), and they won't load for me on Waypoint so I had to watch them on YouTube. Shame.
While I think the content of the videos is really cool, I wish they'd put that story stuff in the game itself as it seems like it's almost required viewing for most people to properly understand the plot. Give us more story in future games please 343, don't hide it away in the Terminals! I'm fine with Terminals being closer to cryptic little easter eggs for Halo nerds.
On the topic of the enemies in the game, hopefully there'll be some additional enemy types and the existing ones will be modified a bit (visually and in terms of AI behaviours) in future games. IMO it always seemed best to take out the Watchers first, I never really got to see their AI behaviours in action because of that - I'd rather they design them in a way that deciding which enemy to take out first is less obvious and more dependant on the situation.
Also, while the Covenant races are still part of the Halo universe and are fun to fight, I'd like to see 343 rely less heavily on them in the future. Perhaps incorporate some of the Covenant races in other ways if they want to show they're still around, like having Elite allies or Jackal mercenaries fighting alongside you at some point!
Also, I found the way the Terminals were handled to be very disappointing. They're not in the game itself (weren't finished in time?), and they won't load for me on Waypoint so I had to watch them on YouTube. Shame.
While I think the content of the videos is really cool, I wish they'd put that story stuff in the game itself as it seems like it's almost required viewing for most people to properly understand the plot. Give us more story in future games please 343, don't hide it away in the Terminals! I'm fine with Terminals being closer to cryptic little easter eggs for Halo nerds.
On the topic of the enemies in the game, hopefully there'll be some additional enemy types and the existing ones will be modified a bit (visually and in terms of AI behaviours) in future games. IMO it always seemed best to take out the Watchers first, I never really got to see their AI behaviours in action because of that - I'd rather they design them in a way that deciding which enemy to take out first is less obvious and more dependant on the situation.
Also, while the Covenant races are still part of the Halo universe and are fun to fight, I'd like to see 343 rely less heavily on them in the future. Perhaps incorporate some of the Covenant races in other ways if they want to show they're still around, like having Elite allies or Jackal mercenaries fighting alongside you at some point!
Blue Ninja
Member
You know, there's one thing my grandpa told me: never wake an ancient alien from his slumber.
IOnEI Falcon
Member
Haha, the easter egg is pretty good this week if you haven't seen it yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVmeGQtKIak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVmeGQtKIak
My Grandpa used to say the same thing, usually followed by something massively racist.
i would say that the campaign is more of a side step than a step back. it's certainly worse in some areas (music, ai, scope, and encounters), but the story, character development (i actually like chief now), art direction, graphics/framerate, and weapons are all improved. The MP is overall much better than Reach and probably better than 3 as well. The fundamental mechanics are probably the best that they have ever been. Moreover, Halo actually feels modern again.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
I know it's been said before but I feel it's worth saying again - please allow us to adjust the volume of the music! On my setup it was too damn low in many places!
Funny that I often felt the music was too high in Bungie's Halo games, hah.
Funny that I often felt the music was too high in Bungie's Halo games, hah.
Jack Scofield
Member
Why doesn't this game has a countdown timer whenever there's a host change? For fuck's sake, Call of Duty had this since 2007! What a fucking joke.
Thisthisthisthis.
Halfway through Legendary solo mode. I'm having more fun this time around and a more sensible understanding of the story. It's a good campaign.
The MP is clicking a bit more too although the net code still blows in a lot of areas. I miss firefight so much,.
Those MP maps are so damn beautiful though. It's like Gears 3 all over again where I stop and look at the pretty areas while getting blasted.
The MP is clicking a bit more too although the net code still blows in a lot of areas. I miss firefight so much,
.Those MP maps are so damn beautiful though. It's like Gears 3 all over again where I stop and look at the pretty areas while getting blasted.
IOnEI Falcon
Member
Accurate.
Ajemsuhgao
Member
My biggest complaint about Campaign in this game is the lack of exploration.
You have no reason to explore, since there aren't any skulls to find. Terminals pretty much hit you in the face in most cases.
But on the off chance you feel like exploring for the hell of it...a timed kill barrier shows up!
A time kill barrier in Campaign? Really? Get the fuck out of my Halo. Plus, they're in the most absurd spots sometimes. Oh no, you better not go TOO FAR UP THAT ROCK.
So shitty.
You have no reason to explore, since there aren't any skulls to find. Terminals pretty much hit you in the face in most cases.
But on the off chance you feel like exploring for the hell of it...a timed kill barrier shows up!
A time kill barrier in Campaign? Really? Get the fuck out of my Halo. Plus, they're in the most absurd spots sometimes. Oh no, you better not go TOO FAR UP THAT ROCK.
So shitty.
To whoever's job it was to place kill barriers and invisible walls in H4's campaign: I passionately dislike you.
Ajemsuhgao
Member
The spots they lock out in this game are awful. Even in multiplayer. Erosion has a HUGE flat area on top of the back building that would make for a great forge spot. Can you actually get back there? Nope.
Diablohead
Member
This is news to me and I used that weapon so much lol
I'm curious as to why you feel this way?
Ajemsuhgao
Member
Most likely because of camo+boltshot.
Is anyone else completely unable to use the File Share mechanism? Like you can't download custom files from the game because it says "No Files Found" or "Could Not Connect to Server" and it sometimes randomly disconnects you from Live :/
So annoying because part of the reason I love Halo multiplayer is playing around with Forge and people's custom maps, which a week after launch I still am unable to do.
So annoying because part of the reason I love Halo multiplayer is playing around with Forge and people's custom maps, which a week after launch I still am unable to do.
As someone who played quite a few hours of Halo 3 multi, I must say I'm enjoying this a lot more than Reach. There's still a few things that really bug me though.
The main being a shift in focus from Grenades/Melee/Guns to a heavier focus on guns.
Why is resupply a perk? Seems crazy that you cannot pick up dropped grenades if you don't have this active. It's not like grenades are super plentiful on the map either, like they were in 3.
And allowing every gametype in Infinity Slayer start with DMR/BR has pretty much killed off Melee. I have 80 melee kills out of ~1400 total. It just seems super low.
A Halo "Classic" type playlist would be great, default loadouts, grenade pickups on, no ordnance, radar on etc. I know Slayer Pro is similar to this, but from what I've played it just becomes rolling around with a couple of dudes until you see someone, then everyone just unload their DMR.
I wish Halo hadn't just gone with a CoD type loadout system, and went for something more flexible. Something where different loadouts would be required for different game types, eg close quarters starts or something.
I dunno. It's different, but I'm still enjoying it. Just not totally what I wanted.
EDIT: Missed a 0.
The main being a shift in focus from Grenades/Melee/Guns to a heavier focus on guns.
Why is resupply a perk? Seems crazy that you cannot pick up dropped grenades if you don't have this active. It's not like grenades are super plentiful on the map either, like they were in 3.
And allowing every gametype in Infinity Slayer start with DMR/BR has pretty much killed off Melee. I have 80 melee kills out of ~1400 total. It just seems super low.
A Halo "Classic" type playlist would be great, default loadouts, grenade pickups on, no ordnance, radar on etc. I know Slayer Pro is similar to this, but from what I've played it just becomes rolling around with a couple of dudes until you see someone, then everyone just unload their DMR.
I wish Halo hadn't just gone with a CoD type loadout system, and went for something more flexible. Something where different loadouts would be required for different game types, eg close quarters starts or something.
I dunno. It's different, but I'm still enjoying it. Just not totally what I wanted.
EDIT: Missed a 0.
COD MP is boring for me. Halo MP is where is at. Only in here you can see so much crazy and funny shit.
My only complains in H4 are.
-Why in the fuck people keep picking Vahalla/Ragnarok when we all have played that map in Halo 3 like 5045048540854 times? What about trying some new shit?
-Granades are weak now. 343 needs to fix this ASAP. Is infuiriating when it takes 2 granades to take a non-shield Spartan.4
-Where is the proper FFA playlist? Regicide doesnt cut it for me.
My only complains in H4 are.
-Why in the fuck people keep picking Vahalla/Ragnarok when we all have played that map in Halo 3 like 5045048540854 times? What about trying some new shit?
-Granades are weak now. 343 needs to fix this ASAP. Is infuiriating when it takes 2 granades to take a non-shield Spartan.4
-Where is the proper FFA playlist? Regicide doesnt cut it for me.
After Reach, this is a breath of fresh air.
Grenades are not meant to be used to kill, as it should be. They're for tactically taking down shields. This is the perfect balance.
However, for people that want to abuse grenades, there is the grenade damage boost and resupply perks so that you can spam them as you could before.
Jack Scofield
Member
But seriously, is 343 filled with incompetents or something? Why would you put a one-hit kill sniper rifle into the game and ALSO remove scope knock-out? It's mind-boggling.
Played Spartan Ops with a friend and no input lag last night, was pretty awesome.
I didn't personally have any issue telling apart the various Elites/Knights during my Legendary playthrough; and I generally don't 'count' my shots when fighting the AI, I just keep shooting until their shield breaks (which is very apparently for both the elites and knights).
I didn't personally have any issue telling apart the various Elites/Knights during my Legendary playthrough; and I generally don't 'count' my shots when fighting the AI, I just keep shooting until their shield breaks (which is very apparently for both the elites and knights).
NullPointer
Member
This is a big one, and its true. Even the game guide doesn't provide enough clues to determine which Knight is which from a distance. That and I have the same problem differentiating between the tougher elites until its too late.
Yep. I just shrug at these "bad netcode" complaints. 95% of my online matches (War Games/Spartan Ops/Campaign) are just fine. Check your connections, people.
Psychoward
Banned
Slayer Pro is great, but why no Carbine or Light Rifle?
Future PhaZe
Member
what tactics are people using to beat knights on legendary
cuz damn
cuz damn