Is neogaf or this thread suppose to convince you? I'm sure there is some sort of help group for people who owned Wii's and couldn't deal with the pixel counting, but you've turned a wrong corner somewhere and ended up here. This thread is about discussing Wii U's hardware and ports don't show anything except what I've said above.
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Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
Is neogaf or this thread suppose to convince you? I'm sure there is some sort of help group for people who owned Wii's and couldn't deal with the pixel counting, but you've turned a wrong corner somewhere and ended up here. This thread is about discussing Wii U's hardware and ports don't show anything except what I've said above.
Haha, wow.
shinra-bansho
Member
I like how the thread is now about how third parties are mean to poor old Nintendo and that's why their systems don't get third party games.
Oh and defending the Regginator's blatant lying.
Oh and defending the Regginator's blatant lying.
As the DF review of CoD Blop2 points out, the Wii U version is running the 360 game exactly, by that I mean they took the game they made for the lead platform (360) and ported it over to PC, PS3 and Wii U. The Wii U runs this game as well as others better than the PS3 version, this is without the 6 years of experience with the hardware AND without code optimization. (The system has to work to 360's strengths and weaknesses, not Wii Us) Basically Wii U can run 360 games built on unfinished hardware without much understanding of the system from developers, irregardless of it's own strengths and weaknesses, to me it's pretty clear that the Wii U is superior in hardware, but it's unclear by how much.
So CoD running equal and smooth in multiplayer, on the TV AND the GamePad at the same time, with unoptimised engines (For Wii U) is not enough to at least make you go "Hold on, maybe, just maybe there's something more there"?
It seems that people claiming the Wii U = 360 are people that have a hidden agenda and that the only thing that might have been able to quell their constant whinging is if Wii U had of looked like a high end PC.
Here is how I see it:
CPU centric games:
(taking the gamepad and Miiverse into consideration.)
-Without optimization, developers can quickly port and run current gen AAA games on the WiiU with some hiccups in frame-rates, loading and a few other things.
-With slight optimization they can add higher textures.
-Fully optimized the WiiU can take those same games with higher textures and run them at higher resolutions (sub HD to 720p 30fps) , steady frame rates & no tearing. So you get cleaner, more vibrant looking games.
GPU centric:
If developers would design the games around the WiiU architecture.
-They can can run those same games at higher resolutions, and higher frame-rates with no tearing. (ex: 1080p 60fps)
-They can run AAAA next gen games at lower resolutions (Sub HD or 720p 30 to 60fps) and a steady frame rate. By the time we see games like this come out, it will probably be mid to late 2014. Depending on which developers are still around.
But, how many AAAA games will we have next gen? And how many will be multi-plat and not first party exclusives? Most likely, the majority of the games will stay within the same budget ranges as this gen, with enhancements the WiiU is most likely designed to handle.
Conclusion
the CPU and memory is good enough to handle current gen games.
Which is what Nintendo wanted this first year.
Nintendo appears to have put their money into latencies and utilizing advanced memory controllers to offset memory bandwidth restrictions. So Im not seeing the memory as being a bottleneck. The bottleneck are the publishers who decide the money, the budget and quality of the team working on ports, and games in general.
Then again, Publishers can also decide in the future to use WiiU as a base, and cheaply port games to the Durango and PS4. Because if those consoles are that more powerful than the WiiU, they should run games made on the WiiU with no problem. Which means visual and performance differences between WiiU games and future consoles will be minimal. But this will be based on the target audience install base WiiU will have by E3.
If games like Bayonnetta2, ZombiU, CoD and other perceived core games, sell well on the WiiU, publishers will not treat the WiiU like the Wii. They will see it as a potential PS2.
CPU centric games:
(taking the gamepad and Miiverse into consideration.)
-Without optimization, developers can quickly port and run current gen AAA games on the WiiU with some hiccups in frame-rates, loading and a few other things.
-With slight optimization they can add higher textures.
-Fully optimized the WiiU can take those same games with higher textures and run them at higher resolutions (sub HD to 720p 30fps) , steady frame rates & no tearing. So you get cleaner, more vibrant looking games.
GPU centric:
If developers would design the games around the WiiU architecture.
-They can can run those same games at higher resolutions, and higher frame-rates with no tearing. (ex: 1080p 60fps)
-They can run AAAA next gen games at lower resolutions (Sub HD or 720p 30 to 60fps) and a steady frame rate. By the time we see games like this come out, it will probably be mid to late 2014. Depending on which developers are still around.
But, how many AAAA games will we have next gen? And how many will be multi-plat and not first party exclusives? Most likely, the majority of the games will stay within the same budget ranges as this gen, with enhancements the WiiU is most likely designed to handle.
Conclusion
the CPU and memory is good enough to handle current gen games.
Which is what Nintendo wanted this first year.
Nintendo appears to have put their money into latencies and utilizing advanced memory controllers to offset memory bandwidth restrictions. So Im not seeing the memory as being a bottleneck. The bottleneck are the publishers who decide the money, the budget and quality of the team working on ports, and games in general.
Then again, Publishers can also decide in the future to use WiiU as a base, and cheaply port games to the Durango and PS4. Because if those consoles are that more powerful than the WiiU, they should run games made on the WiiU with no problem. Which means visual and performance differences between WiiU games and future consoles will be minimal. But this will be based on the target audience install base WiiU will have by E3.
If games like Bayonnetta2, ZombiU, CoD and other perceived core games, sell well on the WiiU, publishers will not treat the WiiU like the Wii. They will see it as a potential PS2.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
The problem is you're cherry-picking and spinning to put things in a better light that they are, you ignore single player and it's poor performance comparatively because it doesn't support your point.
The same thing has happened multiple times over the weeks, any single post that puts any of the Wii U's weaknesses into focus is dismissed as a troll or trolling, and any possible but highly unlikely positive is spun as fact on the flimsiest and often totally technically incorrect points. (GPGPU GPGPU GPGPU!)
Face it, you and others in this thread want it to be about Wii U's technical positives and that alone, this isn't a tech facts thread, it's a Nintendo tech masturbation thread for the hardcore. (Just ask Arkham!)
And it is so much the worse for it, it's pitiful.
shinra-bansho
Member
No offense taken because I have not compared the WiiU to the PS2.
I stated that the potential is there IF perceived core games
sell well. And WiiU owners have probably till next E3 to make this happen.
It could also be said other people are doing the same, but for the negative points - if I were to play devil's avocado here.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
What is an AAAA game? Is this supposed to signify a game with higher budget than AAA or something?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
On an equivalent basis? yeah... No, at a ratio of about 10:1?, sure.
You want to know what the result of some of the worst flights of fancy such as those in this thread is?
Take a look at this: http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/c...ii-u-is-powerful-its-just-next-generation-pow
It's not hard to see why some people find the Nintendo hardcore so utterly laughable when it comes to tech.
shinra-bansho
Member
I would say it's still wishful thinking to imagine the Wii U becoming the lead platform for development.
Microsoft will likely provide powerful hardware that's easy to develop for with good development tools - as they by most accounts did this generation. Their ability to sell core third party software and work with publishers for promotional arrangements is also already proven. The 720 will likely be the lead platform for development - and likely is the lead platform for next-gen development underway - and PS4/720 development is something of a given, given the overlap in userbase demographics.
Bayonetta and Zombi U selling okay isn't going to change that.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Publishers?
I wouldn't call it mean, but they budget accordingly. Nintendo hardware has a sordid history with 3rd parties. Therefore budgets might not be what is needed. This isn't to excuse because if this thing was hitting a few standards of even 2006 it wouldn't be a challenge. With some of the hardware differences it might have been simple. Unfortunately they've got a whole set of challenges introduced by WiiU.
Under budgetary and time constraints things slide.
...What? Robot Guile, I am confused, what does Zeldainformer have to do with this thread? I mean neogaf follows and reports from beyond 3D, so in some weird way are you comparing Neogaf to Zeldainformer?
If it was really behind 2006 tech, there isn't a way they would have 360 ports looking/running better than PS3 running on Wii U. DF has mentioned a couple that fall into this list btw.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Color me surprised.
Dat arrogant and provocative tone.
Well that's the problem. You've just revealed you have a strong preconception about anyone trying to say anything positive about WiiU. You've found one obviously misinformed Nintendo fan, not even on this site, and decided that's a definitive representation of people in this thread who are remotely positive or even open minded about the WiiU hardware.
Do you want me to go find examples of people with fanatically irrational and negative opinions about WiiU hardware? Cos there are plenty. But I'm not going to label everyone here with that if they don't agree with me.
Its not as one sided as you are making it out to be.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Great, I guess there is no point of launching PS4 and Xbox3
Hoping for a civil discussion, maybe I should change my avatar since anyone who likes Windwaker link is obviously Nintendo PR.
semi-On topic, I agree that Wii U becoming lead platform is not going to happen, it could simply because it would be the lowest common denominator in the upcoming gen and they are all basically on the same architecture with different levels of hardware, but Publishers won't change their mind unless Wii U sells better than either of the other two, then it would be free money for them, and companies tend to like that.
Thank god, that's one chance we have here at GAF to actually have people from the future posting here.
We seriously need to consider how lucky we are.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Bandwidth: Absent of Andrew Huang (or someone with his skillset) getting his hands dirty again, or a major leak from a Dev, I don't think we will.
Amount: I thought it was pretty much confirmed to be 32Mb? - If not then either a leak or a ChipWorks job will be necessary to find out.
You can check back on my post once the new systems release and see who is right
Absent of Andrew Huang (or someone with his skillset) getting his hands dirty again, or a major leak from a Dev, I don't think we will.
Booo. That's not good enough!
You can say that but its not.
I didnt say Bayonetta and ZombiU selling OK. I said good.
Ubisoft is laying the groundwork to develop on the WiiU.
Thats one major developer that Nintendo can count on.
If they see a market for their games on the system, they
will make the investment in optimizing games for it.
But regardless, wishful thinking is making assumptions about consoles
that have not even made a public appearances.
Yes, however there is a small though highly unlikely chance that during the move to next gen only consoles (I would assume 2014 but who knows) Developers would choose the weakest of the bunch with the highest install base and in 2014 that would be Wii U, as it will have been out for a year plus while the others would only have been out for a few months.
This would be like free money to publishers, as they would just up port their games from Wii U since they are similar architectures, it would be fairly straight forward. You'd up port of course, with more effects turned on and higher resolutions/frame rates, but it's possible they would go this route if there is a hard core base with Wii U that is apparent.
Oh I understand what you were trying to say.
My question still stands:
Why bother launching PS4 or Xbox3 if the install base
of current consoles are so high? Publishers might as well
port 360 games to those consoles on the cheap too.
Yes, I understood the first time around. Do you honestly believe it's going to happen?
Post #10530 second paragraph, read my posts.
But nobody knows if this is going to happen, because we dont know how well the WiiU and its games will sell during its launch window. We dont know when the other consoles will launch. We dont know what games they will launch with or what their unique selling points are.
You keep saying it runs better than the PS3, when it actually falls far behind.
Apophis2036
Banned
Oh the irony...
People can't seem to get it through their head that 6th generation games developed for CPU centric consoles (PS360) will not run as well on a next generation, GPU based console like WiiU.
This thread seems to have become the place for all the trolls from the past year to gather and flame people genuinely interested in discussing the hardware, how ever weak or powerful it turns out to be.
A shame really as this was a good thread until 4 or 5 of the most well known WiiU trolls arrived after the Ram news...
99% of consumers don't even read gaming new sites let alone forums, If the WiiU fails it will be because of a lack of quality first party software not because of third party support or a group of about 10 spiteful people on a nerdy tech forum pointing out a few of the launch games are running at 10fps slower on the console
.When someone decaps the GPU. But it's possible to make educated guesses:
Renesas UX8 eDRAM comes in three configurations: 1MB macro on a 128bit or 256bit bus, or 8MB on a 256bit bus. Wii U has 32MB eDRAM, so the bus should be either 1024, 4096 or 8192bit wide. The eDRAM should be clocked at either 486 or 729MHz, which leaves us with six possible configurations:
1024bit, 486MHz: 57.9GB/s
1024bit, 729MHz: 86.9GB/s
4096bit, 486MHz: 231.7GB/s
4096bit, 729MHz: 347.6GB/s
8192bit, 486MHz: 463.5GB/s
8192bit, 729MHz: 695.2GB/s
H_Prestige
Banned
Then why do they run so much better on GPU centric PC's?
frankie_baby
Member
Nope
Well that will do more harm to the PS4 and XB3.
Since expectations for those consoles have always been higher than the WiiU
ColdBlooder
Banned
Never played GTA 4 on PC huh?
As a (poor) comparison, how would these figures equate to the 360's edram speeds? Would that be the 32 or 256 GB/S I see quoted?
And as the 360's was, essentially, one way, would the WiiU need a much higher figure to benefit from the two way IO?
They don't on jaguar's predessors even the one released earlier this year. In fact most pc gamers use high clock speed CPUs, that is why everyone overclocks them even beyond the 4ghz mark yields results. Have you tried playing games on a bobcat AMD CPU? It's horrible, especially combined with a similarly powerful to xenos gpu.
caffeinated
Member
My laptop ran Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age just fine, and I could play Saints Row 3 on medium settings pretty smoothly and since it supports DX11 it looked pretty neat.
Then during a Steam sale last year I bought GTA 4 and Force Unleashed 2. Both games were unplayable even with the lowest settings. I couldn't even endure playing prologue quests.