Ok, the idea of that is just too cool to imagine.
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CES Oculus Rift Reactions
- Thread starter Versellios
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Ok, the idea of that is just too cool to imagine.
So I've just heard of this now and all I've seen is the video, but.....
Playing an FPS with this would be tricky wouldn't it? This seems really great for slower-paced games where you're able to enjoy looking around, but for an FPS, you'd end up aiming with your head, right? I can't imagine that would be very easy or comfortable.
Also, I wonder how this handles menus. It's hard to know, but I imagine that might feel jarring if suddenly you're presented with a flat image where your head stopped allowing you to look around. Would it require 3D menus?
I just don't know how well current games would really adapt to something like this. Some of the differences might be minor or subltle, but I imagine that only games built for this device would really feel right.
Granted, this is my opinion after just barely getting an idea of what this thing does. I doubt anyone will really know how these games work until they try them.
Edit: Ah, you know what would be great for this is Minecraft. Well, maybe not Minecraft itself because it's ugly and slow as hell, but something like that. There aren't many menus and most of the game is spent looking around. Furthermore, the aiming doesn't need to be precise.
Playing an FPS with this would be tricky wouldn't it? This seems really great for slower-paced games where you're able to enjoy looking around, but for an FPS, you'd end up aiming with your head, right? I can't imagine that would be very easy or comfortable.
Also, I wonder how this handles menus. It's hard to know, but I imagine that might feel jarring if suddenly you're presented with a flat image where your head stopped allowing you to look around. Would it require 3D menus?
I just don't know how well current games would really adapt to something like this. Some of the differences might be minor or subltle, but I imagine that only games built for this device would really feel right.
Granted, this is my opinion after just barely getting an idea of what this thing does. I doubt anyone will really know how these games work until they try them.
Edit: Ah, you know what would be great for this is Minecraft. Well, maybe not Minecraft itself because it's ugly and slow as hell, but something like that. There aren't many menus and most of the game is spent looking around. Furthermore, the aiming doesn't need to be precise.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Since we're talking about solutions to further increase the VR, I'll raise another issue. I remember people saying OR plus a motion controller would make an amazing lightsaber game, or any melee game really. But how would that handle collisions? You swing your saber at Vader and he blocks it, through the OR you see your saber come to an abrupt stop but you feel your arms carry forward, and now your in game hands/saber are out of sync with your real life counterparts.
I've thought about this as well. I think this is just something your brain will adjust to. After a while, this will be a non issue. The fact that we already deal with this in Wii games is proof of this.
I H8 Memes
Member
That's because motion controls are fucking stupid. They are fucking stupid using kinect, they are fucking stupid using the move, they are fucking stupid using the wii mote.
This thing just tracks head movement and hopefully even that can be disabled. What a kinect type device together with the Rift can help with is for fine controls. Opening a door or using a keypad or keyboard. maybe even moving object around. Never ever ever will any of this motion bullshit work for controlling a game.
The reason that kinect might work well with the Rift for things like keypads and things like that is because of the scale you would experience in a first person game. Built around the Rift scale should be correct. When you see someone move through a doorway now on your 42 inch tv all you see is a character that is looks roughly 6 inches tall move through a doorway that looks 10 inches tall. With the Rift you will feel however tall the charcter is made to feel and the doorway passes right over your head. You have the right scale and proper positioning in game to make to be able to use a keypad with the same motions and at the same scale of real life. it makes it much easier for those types of simple movement to feel exactly as they should.
rohlfinator
Member
scorpscarx
Member
I like this thing.... cautiously.... call me old school but I'd rather have a professional monitor and be aware of my surroundings.
That said I still remember those shitty VR hang glider demos they had set up in malls in the nineties and that only makes me want this thing lol.
It would be ridiculous stoned rofl...
Obligatory: If you die in Oculus Rift, do you die in the real world? The body cannot live without the mind.
That said I still remember those shitty VR hang glider demos they had set up in malls in the nineties and that only makes me want this thing lol.
It would be ridiculous stoned rofl...
Obligatory: If you die in Oculus Rift, do you die in the real world? The body cannot live without the mind.
I think not. But at least for now, we'll just have to agree to disagree. When the Rift is out, we can (or we'll see) experiment with Kinect/Leap and OR and see what can be done in that regard.
But if imagination + simulation in the form of closing your eyes and walking on the spot... is any indication of the immersive quality of 'walking on the spot', then it shouldn't fair too badly.
It's certainly not as immersive as actually walking, but it's far closer to that then standing/sitting and pushing up on the thumb stick.
If there is any nuance to it though, I think the movement of your body needs to be closely synced to the movement of your avatar. That is - you move your left leg up and hold, your avatar needs to hold his leg up and hold. You put your foot down, your avatar needs to put their foot down.
Your body's up and down gait needs to match the up and down gait of the camera (but actually that should be the easy part; because the camera is controlled by your head, which is controlled by your body's natural oscillation, meaning that indeed the camera does bob up and down as you stomp up and down on the spot).
Similarly, as you put your foot down and pick it up again, your forward velocity needs to cycle in a manner similar to how it would move if you were actually moving forward.
This quote isn't in the context of VR experiments, but rather just their own exploration of motion controls in the context of current gaming paradigms.
3D motion controls in a 2D display (even pseudo 3D as stereoscopy is) is lackluster. 2D controls in a 3D environment is also lackluster.
In VR, you'd want to be able to reach into the Z depth. I just can't see how you'd do that well without motion controls.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Also Gabe Newell is actually in the video on OR's website supporting it.
Haunted
Member
SuicideUZI
Member
screw next gen consoles, all i need is my PC and oculus rift
That's the thing-- I don't have to sacrifice experience. There's nothing natural or desirable about marching in place to walk forward in an adventure game when I could use an analog thumbstick and have full control over the direction and speed of my movement, without getting tired after 30 seconds.
SomeOneInaHat
Member
Using separate controllable features that meld with a human's natural inherit ability is essentially endowing oneself with virtual android terminator abilities.
Singularity42
Member
sooo another 20 or 50 years and we will be jacking into the matrix... right???
But there are some controller methods that are being imagined by Kinect kiddies just for the sake of it, and it's really naive.
SuicideUZI
Member
Have they mentioned if the consumer model will be using OLED screens? it seems like as important as low latency on this device is that they wouldnt even bother using a tech like LCD with inherent latency issues
So many misconceptions floating around this thread!
But I wear glasses!
You can wear glasses with this device.
I don't want to aim with my head!
All the demos that I have seen thus far have allowed you to use a controller for movement and aiming as normal.
Another Virtual Boy? I'm not falling for that again!
The motion tracking and level of fidelity in both the resolution and field of view make this a qualitatively different experience than all that 90's bullshit. This one should be obvious.
But what about third person games?
There are multiple ways of implementing OR support for third person games, with most of them having the controller function as normal and the headset acting as a kind of supplemental camera control. Furthermore you also get the benefits of 3D, minus the drawbacks that are present in current 3D technology.
This needs to be on consoles.
I agree! However, along with simply allowing for the device to be recognised, the games need to be at 60fps with vsync switched on in order for the 3d effect to function correctly. In other words, there are quite a few hurdles in the way of making this a reality.
This needs software support for it to be viable.
Correct. Currently there are big names (Carmack, Newell etc.) expressing interest, as well as support for both the Unity and Unreal engines. Furthermore, I'd be very surprised if the hacker community doesn't figure out a way to implement support for most popular games where it makes sense.
But I wear glasses!
You can wear glasses with this device.
I don't want to aim with my head!
All the demos that I have seen thus far have allowed you to use a controller for movement and aiming as normal.
Another Virtual Boy? I'm not falling for that again!
The motion tracking and level of fidelity in both the resolution and field of view make this a qualitatively different experience than all that 90's bullshit. This one should be obvious.
But what about third person games?
There are multiple ways of implementing OR support for third person games, with most of them having the controller function as normal and the headset acting as a kind of supplemental camera control. Furthermore you also get the benefits of 3D, minus the drawbacks that are present in current 3D technology.
This needs to be on consoles.
I agree! However, along with simply allowing for the device to be recognised, the games need to be at 60fps with vsync switched on in order for the 3d effect to function correctly. In other words, there are quite a few hurdles in the way of making this a reality.
This needs software support for it to be viable.
Correct. Currently there are big names (Carmack, Newell etc.) expressing interest, as well as support for both the Unity and Unreal engines. Furthermore, I'd be very surprised if the hacker community doesn't figure out a way to implement support for most popular games where it makes sense.
Doesn't look omnidirectional to me. Seems like it just had a small amount of horizontal shift.
I can't envision how you would do omnidirectional stationary movement. Maybe a rotating elliptical stepper of some sort.
SomeOneInaHat
Member
Kinect is shit (Opener of the year), in its current state. It has both slow processing speed and a low resolution camera (240P). Though, the awesome thing about a 3D camera like Kinect is its ability to measure depth (With lasers). If Kinect 2 were to release with a higher resolution camera, much much higher processing speed, and a mounted background sensor bar (or whatever) that can capture the rear of the user to assist in sensing the unexpected behavior of humans, like putting your hand behind your back then I would look at Kinect as a meaningful controller that could be used for depth and limb tracking.
It would be possible for a combination of controller, kinect, and Oculus Rift that could indeed improve upon an already solid device.
Cyber Caesar
Member
We need that 3D web. I was so excited for this in high school such a long time ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p0jmewhXeU
They have not, probably because nothing is set in stone yet. It will likely be some time before we know what screen they're going to use, but they are in talks with a number of companies that they cannot name to deliver the display technology in the consumer version.
Sanctuary
Member
Why does it look like it doesn't really offer changing directions to E and W, only N, S, SE, SW, NE, NW? Not quite yet omnidirectional.
googleplex
Member
You can't. Combining Oculus Rift with a PSmove/Razer Hydra like controllers would be ideal.
SomeOneInaHat
Member
Rift could solve the deadzone issue
I'm new be nice
Member
Actually World of Warcraft works pretty well in stereo 3D because blizzard officially supported Nvidias 3D vision solution. All the UI stuff has correct depth values and for the most part the graphics are satisfactory.
The only real issue for getting WoW to work would be intigrating the head and neck modeling.
This makes me wonder if all the 3D vision stuff could be made to work in harmony with whatever software the rift is going to come with. Even if its just the basic stereoscopic 3D without the head tracking. It would certainly help pass the time while we wait for more games to support the rift.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
Thought about this a lot. I think instead of stopping the attack they'd just deflect is so that you can continue your motion and no damage is done, but they're pushed back instead. To prevent flail-fu, maybe have a meter that drains with excessive movement so even if you do connect with a quick but weak attack,you minimal damage.
Or have a button that you constantly hold for blocking (holding the button uses blocking and deflecting animations) and holding this charges your attack. Switching it up and holding another button uses attack animations that drain.
I just want to minimize flail-fu....
Some new Press Reactions:
http://icrontic.com/article/oculus-...iver-on-the-promise-of-virtual-reality-gaming
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6625/the-anandtech-podcast-episode-14
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/49118/oculus-vr-virtual-reality-headset-preview
And here a Sony HMZ Review which Turns into a oculus Rift preview xD
http://business.financialpost.com/2...-visor-could-be-the-next-big-thing-in-gaming/
http://icrontic.com/article/oculus-...iver-on-the-promise-of-virtual-reality-gaming
just lol xD
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6625/the-anandtech-podcast-episode-14
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/49118/oculus-vr-virtual-reality-headset-preview
And here a Sony HMZ Review which Turns into a oculus Rift preview xD
http://business.financialpost.com/2...-visor-could-be-the-next-big-thing-in-gaming/
Yup. Like, you're the camera behind the character!
I'd hate to see what that contraption does if you drive on a bumpy road.
Wait, so if there's a momentary dip in fps, it'll mess things up? Because in some games that is guaranteed to happen no matter what kind of a monster rig you have, it's just how they are.
Well, it won't mess anything up, but it will completely break your immersion.
Now, I have some good and bad news regarding the Rift after watching one of Carmack's videos. He says that if you leave the GPU to its own devices, it basically buffers 1-2 frames to increase benchmark scores, which results in input lag. I have a feeling this is what causes input lag in a lot of games I play. Now, he overrides this to get low input lag to best interface with the Rift, but I have a feeling many developers may not do so. While input lag only bothers some of us at the moment, it's going to be much more noticeable for others with the Rift. I have a feeling a lot of early games will not play very nicely with the Rift thanks to this input lag. Hopefully this pushes developers to prioritize low input lag when developing their engines.
Astral/H3X
Member
It could extremely easily do that, and what's more is that if you're fine using your eyes/head to aim, then the whole of the Hydra can be for gestures, instead of only sticking them on the left 'chuck to avoid screwing up aim. I'm looking forward to this.
I believe what he is talking about is VSync/Triple Buffering, which would be the 2 or 3 frame hold. Turn that off and you're golden, if you've got the PC that can run stable 60 and not tear.
call_kotaku
Member
It's something Carmack's mentioned. 30fps and 60fps are distinguishable no matter what, but 60fps and 120fps is indistinguishable if you're using a controller and only perceptible if you're using a mouse, because it's based on your expectations of responsiveness. It seems like Oculus believes that 60fps with vsync with under 30ms of latency is the minimum bar for believable VR, so people might want to run rift games at even higher framerates than 60.
Astral/H3X
Member
I hope Oculus doesn't force on Vsync. My PC rarely tears, and as such I never leave it on. As a result, I've come to be able to notice the feel of when Vsync is on, and it throws me off. T-T As for 120hz, do you think they'll push for 120 on the consumer model? Or maybe one of its successors? I doubt that a majority of computers will be able to push significantly past 60FPS with this thing, so I don't think it'd be on the first model, but if someone else has another thought I'd like to hear it.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
A thought. Though most of the focus is rightfully on the graphical side, games that want to best support this could require some alternate audio modes. As is now in games, if you change the angle of viewing, the sounds coming out of different speakers will change with it. But if I'm standing in the same place and just move my head left, what's coming out of the right/left/center/surrounds shouldn't change. However, if using headphones the old way will be appropriate, since the speakers are moving with your head.
Also, I have some doubts Skyrim will work very well without massive changes. Even with a plain 3D screen the combination of left/right images doesn't look right, even with the lighting/shadowing/reflections turned to low settings as NVIDIA suggests.
Also, I have some doubts Skyrim will work very well without massive changes. Even with a plain 3D screen the combination of left/right images doesn't look right, even with the lighting/shadowing/reflections turned to low settings as NVIDIA suggests.
Dumb. Wrong.
Even at sixty frames per second, when scrolling your view in circles, you still cannot single out a single small piece of scenery with your eyes (the closer to your character the better--meaning it's moving faster), focus on it, and follow it across the screen without it looking blurry. At 120fps you probably can. I want blurriness to come from my eyes not focusing on something, not the display. Similarly, motion blur can go kill itself. Just give me a high enough framerate that something moves so fast that my eyes actually blur it.
It's definitely more complicated than that, though. I've encountered triple buffered vsynced games that have very low input lag (UE3 games are good for this), and others which have terrible input lag (Source games).
Yes, certainly. The first consumer model probably won't have it, but it's the direction later models will invariably go in.
No, he's talking about queuing. But you can usually force that off in the drivers, on NV hardware at least. Unless it's done manually in-engine, but I don't think that's the case often.
Best case for VR is surely correctly implemented triple-buffering with a 100 Hz+ framerate.
rohlfinator
Member
Why do you think the technology will work better with VR?
I agree, but I can't see how you'd do it that well with our current motion controls either. They are way too inaccurate.
Stephen Colbert
Banned
Sony could easily partner with (or outright buy) the people making Oculus Rift to make out of the box PS4 support for it at launch a reality.
Alternatively, Sony already has it's own VR headset....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZ-EXZUjro
...though without some of the features Oculus Rift offers that makes the Rift better to use, but there's no reason Sony can't fix those problems and release an upgraded VR headset for the PS4 that is on par with the Rift but at a higher resolution to boot (720p per eye).
If you like this idea, upvote it on the Playstation Blog Share site that Sony developers frequent...
http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/ideas/2012/08/14/oculus-rift-head-mounted-display/
The Blog Share was how fans managed to get Kevin Butler at the E3 conference last year, so there's no reason they couldn't do something similar with the Oculus Rift this year.
Alternatively, Sony already has it's own VR headset....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZ-EXZUjro
...though without some of the features Oculus Rift offers that makes the Rift better to use, but there's no reason Sony can't fix those problems and release an upgraded VR headset for the PS4 that is on par with the Rift but at a higher resolution to boot (720p per eye).
If you like this idea, upvote it on the Playstation Blog Share site that Sony developers frequent...
http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/ideas/2012/08/14/oculus-rift-head-mounted-display/
The Blog Share was how fans managed to get Kevin Butler at the E3 conference last year, so there's no reason they couldn't do something similar with the Oculus Rift this year.
Astral/H3X
Member
Is that to say I can get my stuff even more responsive by tweaking my drivers? I must look into this! I have an AMD card (6950), but I find that most of those tweaks are available in some form on both vendors so I shall look into this.
I H8 Memes
Member
I haevent read the fine print, but I'm pretty sure the nature of the kickstarter has legal obligations that would prevent Oculus Rift from going first party for Sony.
call_kotaku
Member
You don't move fast enough or precise enough to make it a huge difference if you're using a controller, that's Carmack's argument. I don't think he's saying 120fps is not better than 60fps, but the jump isn't as significant as it is from 30 to 60, and console controls is why most console gamers are more receptive towards 30fps.
The Oculus guys did a kickstarter and avoided all kinds of venture capital because they didn't want to work under a large company. I don't think it's a good idea for them to wait to get acquired by a major corporation, I don't see any upside for it if they already have all the funding they need.
That sony HMZ is NOT a VR, its just a personal regular screen 3D viewer ,ie like watching regular 3D on screen