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Moosichu · Mar 3, 2013

meta4 said:
There is a guy who says an unreleased game like TLOU is pathetic and does not want it to come anywhere close to an XBOX console. Gears according to him is the pinnacle of diversity and non generic. Fanboys of the most delusional kind here in GAF unfortunately. I swear they would prob have a heart attack if MS loses market share next gen. They are a a couple of them here way too invested.

I was thinking beyond 4GB of GDDR5 benefits for games would be a case of diminishing returns and most of the benefits of the increase goes only to the OS. Is that not true?

When people act unreasonable please don't namecall.

The 8GB of RAM is definetly for games. Sony may reserve an extra 512MB on top of the rumoured 512MB they were using before just in case. But the that extra could be 'unlocked' further down the road anyway. Sony have said, their focus is gaming (for the start of the gen anyway). Point is: moar RAM allows gaming improvements.

CREMSteve · Mar 3, 2013

The Crusty Juggler said:
Sony can keep thier diverse games lol. As I stated above I don't want games like HR, The Last Of Us or Beyond two souls anywhere near a MS console.

lol

Fanboys are ridiculous. There's room on both consoles for all types of games.

Bgamer90 · Mar 3, 2013

nib95 said:
I know. But his post (and the one you were responding to) was with respect to the 2013 line up.

And I responded by bringing up Gears Judgement -- a "core" game.

meta4 · Mar 3, 2013

The Crusty Juggler said:
You calling me a fanboy? Jesus Christ the level of hypocrisy. I happen to prefer playing co op with My friends on Gears then enjoying the latest pretentious story from ND. Notice btw how I say I in my comments unlike you or Thiswreckage who say WE. Opinions dude everyone has them. You or any other of the same users seem to have a hard time understanding that.

Whatever..

Hindle · Mar 3, 2013

Hoo-doo said:
Have you even seen any TLOU footage at all?

Do you actually hold Microsoft in a higher regard when it comes to "gameplay"? How?

Theyve been focused on gameplay and multiplayer which is what appeals to me as a gamer. Sony first parties seem to be more focused on graphics and story, NDs comments on TLoU and David Cages comments on how game development should copy more from the film industry confirm this to me.

Deku Tree · Mar 3, 2013

No, not surprised. With the amount of cash at stake, I am sure they have Ninja's working for them.

BruceLeeRoy · Mar 3, 2013

The Crusty Juggler said:
You calling me a fanboy? Jesus Christ the level of hypocrisy. I happen to prefer playing co op with My friends on Gears then enjoying the latest pretentious story from ND. Notice btw how I say I in my comments unlike you or Thiswreckage who say WE. Opinions dude everyone has them. You or any other of the same users seem to have a hard time understanding that.

Dictionary, derp derp.

Baconsammy · Mar 3, 2013

BruceLeeRoy said:
Yeah there is a reason your not in upper management there buddy.

Even if MS released a system that was fairly weaker than PS4 it won't matter. As long as Kinect 2.0 is impressive to the casuals and they have their stable of strong IP(Halo, PGR, Next Epic..ect.) The system will sell great and turn a greater profit. What possible motivator is there for them to fight Sony for the top tech when all they stand to lose is profit.

But RAM!!! And Flops! That's what sells consoles to the masses, right? You're not really insinuating that Microsoft looked at the success of Kinect, 3DS, Wii and the failure of PS3/Vita and determined that having just enough power was good enough as long as you have the content and services that consumers want? Surely they're not bringing a handgun to a tank fight.

Bgamer90 · Mar 3, 2013

ThisWreckage said:
And are we going to pretend that Sony hasn't had stellar PSN titles released? I love how the goal posts shift. Keep on back peddling.

You say this when you you discredit core oriented XBLA games at the same time.

Amazing.

Anyway, the strategy of going more casual over the course of a generation isn't anything new at all (it has been going on for 25+ years in terms of home consoles) but yet for some reason people are treating MS/360 as if they're the first ones to do it and I don't get it.

So, sorry for being realistic and being familiar with how successful consoles transform over the course of a generation.

BoboBrazil · Mar 3, 2013

The Crusty Juggler said:
Just my opinion. Those type of games are seriously damaging to gameplay and I'd rather not have them on a MS console.

BruceLeeRoy · Mar 3, 2013

Baconsammy said:
But RAM!!! And Flops! That's what sells consoles to the masses, right? You're not really insinuating that Microsoft looked at the success of Kinect, 3DS, Wii and the failure of PS3/Vita and determined that having just enough power was good enough as long as you have the content and services that consumers want? Surely they're not bringing a handgun to a tank fight.

Bacon why do you have to make so much sense? It doesn't belong nor is welcome in this thread!

meta4 · Mar 3, 2013

Moosichu said:
When people act unreasonable please don't namecall.

The 8GB of RAM is definetly for games. Sony may reserve an extra 512MB on top of the rumoured 512MB they were using before just in case. But the that extra could be 'unlocked' further down the road anyway. Sony have said, their focus is gaming (for the start of the gen anyway). Point is: moar RAM allows gaming improvements.

Yeah. I need to put such people on the ignore list. Keep forgetting....

That's good to hear about the increase being significantly useful for games as well. 3-4 years into the console life cycle is going to give rise to some stunning looking games then.

Ryuuga · Mar 3, 2013

This thread right here.

Anyway, let those who think what they want to think. If someone wants to think something as outlandish as MS going full kinect-casual then let them, who really loses if they don't? No one. We get more games that we enjoy. Schadenfreude with a sprinkle of cognitive dissonance seem to be the specialty items leading up to E3.

BruceLeeRoy · Mar 3, 2013

meta4 said:
Yeah. I need to put such people on the ignore list. Keep forgetting....

That's good to hear about the increase being significantly useful for games as well. 3-4 years into the console life cycle is going to give rise to some stunning looking games then.

The upgrade is very significant. People downplaying it simply don't understand what it does for the system.

Baconsammy · Mar 3, 2013

BruceLeeRoy said:
Bacon why do you have to make so much sense? It doesn't belong nor is welcome in this thread!

As a gamer and spectator I'll be upset if Microsoft plays the "biggest penis" card. I don't want them to go stupid with the specs. I want them to do what we assume they're going to do (lower specs, but not by much, and a focus on services etc). I want to see how that fight plays out. Power vs Power is just so current gen.

KillGore · Mar 3, 2013

The Crusty Juggler said:
Theyve been focused on gameplay and multiplayer which is what appeals to me as a gamer. Sony first parties seem to be more focused on graphics and story, NDs comments on TLoU and David Cages comments on how game development should copy more from the film industry confirm this to me.

Focused on gameplay?? I really don't see the difference between the gameplay in gears/halo and TLOU/Killzone.

Hoo-doo · Mar 3, 2013

Ryuuga said:
This thread right here.

Anyway, let those who think what they want to think. If someone wants to think something as outlandish as MS going full kinect-casual then let them, who really loses if they don't? No one. We get more games that we enjoy. Schadenfreude with a sprinkle of cognitive dissonance seem to be the specialty items leading up to E3.

Cognitive dissonance is already on full blast in this thread.

Ryuuga · Mar 3, 2013

KillGore said:
Focused on gameplay?? I really don't see the difference between the gameplay in gears/halo and TLOU/Killzone.

It's not about the gameplay, but the pretentious story and lack of bro-op. You're also not required to wear pocket square and monocle while playing MS exclusives.

benny_a · Mar 3, 2013

Ryuuga said:
Anyway, let those who think what they want to think. If someone wants to think something as outlandish as MS going full kinect-casual then let them, who really loses if they don't? No one. We get more games that we enjoy. Schadenfreude with a sprinkle of cognitive dissonance seem to be the specialty items leading up to E3.

If they don't, no one loses. If they do, the people that enjoy core games lose. That's the whole worry that people are having.

And just comparing 2013's line-up, Sony is investing more in the kind of games that historically win GOTY awards on GAF ("core").

That doesn't mean that's the best business decision for a company as a whole. But I'm not yet a shareholder of either MS or Sony and purely come from a hobbyist perspective and I want more games that are for me.

Edit: I'm not thinking that MS will go Kinect-casuals retarded. I think they are going to serve the core better than the last 3 years.

BruceLeeRoy · Mar 3, 2013

Baconsammy said:
As a gamer and spectator I'll be upset if Microsoft plays the "biggest penis" card. I don't want them to go stupid with the specs. I want them to do what we assume they're going to do (lower specs, but not by much, and a focus on services etc). I want to see how that fight plays out. Power vs Power is just so current gen.

Honestly of the two MS is being by far the most ballsy with their vision of the future. I can't keep from being excited when they are really going for something new and unprecedented.

Dusky · Mar 3, 2013

KillGore said:
Focused on gameplay?? I really don't see the difference between the gameplay in gears/halo and TLOU/Killzone.

What?

ThisWreckage · Mar 3, 2013

I love how people will cry, "APPS!" and "SERVICES!" when discussing the next generation Xbox when it is blatantly obvious that Sony is focused on apps, services, and online gaming for the first time ever. A lot of those apps and services that people are yelling about will be matched feature for feature on the PS4. Microsoft will not have a clear cut advantage when it comes to online gaming, apps, and services this time around.

meta4 · Mar 3, 2013

BruceLeeRoy said:
The upgrade is very significant. People downplaying it simply don't understand what it does for the system.

Good to hear! I hope MS has an equalizer then. There should never be multiplatform disparity.

DEADEVIL · Mar 3, 2013

Derrick01 said:
The sad thing is they probably think they did exactly the right thing. Show off kinect crap, then show a variety of dudebro games depending on what year it is like gears, halo, tomb raider or COD. That's what they consider the core gamer, people that we would consider casual still.

Yeah. It's the 'hypocrite much' console preference theory again. Let's play

Yeah Why would MS think they did the right think when they could have shown Wonderbook, a variety of Flowerbro games depending on what year it is like God of War, Assasin's Creed 3 w/ an Assassin's Creed 3 bundled PS3.

And then throw in the goalpost movement of pretending that 'core' gamer are now 'casual' because suposedly 'they' think so is definately the standard icing on the cake.

Baconsammy · Mar 3, 2013

ThisWreckage said:
I love how people will cry, "APPS!" and "SERVICES!" when discussing the next generation Xbox when it is blatantly obvious that Sony is focused on apps, services, and online gaming for the first time ever. A lot of those apps and services that people are yelling about will be matched feature for feature on the PS4. Microsoft will not have a clear cut advantage when it comes to online gaming, apps, and services this time around.

Please tell me more about Microsoft's new services.

Derrick01 · Mar 3, 2013

BruceLeeRoy said:
Honestly of the two MS is being by far the most ballsy with their vision of the future. I can't keep from being excited when they are really going for something new and unprecedented.

The vision of being THE media box in the living room? Well that is somewhat new but as a gamer that's not very exciting for me, especially since I've seen what they do when they feel like they have "enough" gamers that bought their systems.

Jadedx · Mar 3, 2013

BruceLeeRoy said:
Yeah there is a reason your not in upper management there buddy.

Even if MS released a system that was fairly weaker than PS4 it won't matter. As long as Kinect 2.0 is impressive to the casuals and they have their stable of strong IP(Halo, PGR, Next Epic..ect.) The system will sell great and turn a greater profit. What possible motivator is there for them to fight Sony for the top tech when all they stand to lose is profit.

MS got most of the multiplat sales because they were known for having the better versions, if they lost that they lose sales, plain and simple. And how do you they will lost profit? Do you have access to the tech labs at ms? Do you know exactly what they are doing?

benny_a · Mar 3, 2013

BruceLeeRoy said:
Honestly of the two MS is being by far the most ballsy with their vision of the future. I can't keep from being excited when they are really going for something new and unprecedented.

What's so ballsy about what MS is alleged to be doing? All I know they are bundling Kinect and reserve significant resources towards it.

Edit: I was coming from it from the perspective of games, as it is the gaming board.
But yeah if you're talking media... Great. More services that I won't get because I'm not in the US.

KillGore · Mar 3, 2013

Dusky said:
What?

I meant, TLOU/Gears and Killzone/Halo

oopsies

DEADEVIL · Mar 3, 2013

digoutyoursoul said:
Spot on, MS could do with ips like Beyond Two Souls or Last of Us for the portfolio, Alan Wake was a decent start but they don't seem to look past trying to push Kinect and sequels to established franchises. If the mandatory Kinect thing is true it will be interesting to see the reaction.

We are only a little over 2 months into the 2012, Please name a major new IP like Last of Us and Beyond that has come out on the PS3 before this year.

Baconsammy · Mar 3, 2013

I'm still trying to digest the idea that someone thinks Naughty Dog games would be a bad thing for a Microsoft console. This thread be krazeee.

nib95 · Mar 3, 2013

Difference in gameplay between Halo and Killzone is a stretch in itself, but Gears and The Last of Us? Lol. Too much.

Baconsammy said:
I'm still trying to digest the idea that someone thinks Naughty Dog games would be a bad thing for a Microsoft console. This thread be krazeee.

More quality titles the better if you ask me. Even if the hardware leaves us wanting, hopefully Microsoft's new IP's don't.

ThisWreckage · Mar 3, 2013

DEADEVIL said:
We are only a little over 2 months into the 2012, Please name a major new IP like Last of Us and Beyond that has come out on the PS3 before this year.

Little Big Planet, Infamous, Heavy Rain, etc.?

DEADEVIL · Mar 3, 2013

ThisWreckage said:
I'm not going to get into list wars. If you don't know, you honestly haven't been paying attention.

You can't get into list wars because you would fail. HARD. Believe us we know.

Vire · Mar 3, 2013

I really hate this time of generation.

So much bickering over endlessly silly things.

enzo_gt · Mar 3, 2013

benny_a said:
What's so ballsy about what MS is alleged to be doing? All I know they are bundling Kinect and reserve significant resources towards it.

MS is trying to provide an integrated solution for everything in your living room. They want to replace your cable box, your DVD/Blu-Ray player, your Netflix machine and your gaming console all in one go. Oh and they're making sure it interfaces with every other device you own, from iOS to Android to WP7 to your PC.

They're not trying to beat Sony in the gaming console market, they're trying to eliminate that market entirely. This is why people are worried about what Sony is doing, yeah it sounds nice and all from a core gamer's perspective, but if it doesn't catch on at large, the implications reach much further, and that includes for gamers. It's analogous to the Vita, and that's why people are skeptical.

Hindle · Mar 3, 2013

Baconsammy said:
I'm still trying to digest the idea that someone thinks Naughty Dog games would be a bad thing for a Microsoft console. This thread be krazeee.

From a gameplay perspective I think they would yea. They are a studio focused on telling a great story, and I personally think developers wanting to raise the bar for story and emotion in games is harming the industry. Especially when the story is via cut scenes or incredibly scripted moments.

i-Lo · Mar 3, 2013

Vire said:
I really hate this time of generation.

So much bickering over endlessly silly things.

Fan-aticism at its peak. The ignore list swells.

Jadedx · Mar 3, 2013

Baconsammy said:
I'm still trying to digest the idea that someone thinks Naughty Dog games would be a bad thing for a Microsoft console. This thread be krazeee.

I don't agree with that, more games are always welcome, but I can't believe that some people can't understand why others don't like ND games. I finished 1 and 2 and I believe both are extremely overrated and boring after a few hours.

BoboBrazil · Mar 3, 2013

The people that seem to be supporting Microsoft in this thread, let me ask you why? What have they done for you to inspire such brand loyalty? Sony by all accounts so far is releasing the better system, has a better history of supporting systems longer(just look at the 2013 PS3 output when PS4 is coming this year), they will have the best versions of 3rd party titles due to the more powerful system and most likely more of them including more Japanese titles, their online system will now be incredible with instant playing of downloading titles while they are downloading, things like the share button, and of course cross party chat, and of course basic online play will most likely still be free. Why such loyalty to a company like MS, when they have stated their goal is to be the center of the living room, will have a bigger focus on apps and Kinect since it's being bundled, and charges for online play?

Vire · Mar 3, 2013

The Crusty Juggler said:
From a gameplay perspective I think they would yea. They are a studio focused on telling a great story, and I personally think developers wanting to raise the bar for story and emotion in games is harming the industry. Especially when the story is via cut scenes or incredibly scripted moments.

You are making me very sad.

Very very sad.

Bgamer90 · Mar 3, 2013

ThisWreckage said:
I love how people will cry, "APPS!" and "SERVICES!" when discussing the next generation Xbox when it is blatantly obvious that Sony is focused on apps, services, and online gaming for the first time ever.

First time ever? No. Not true.

A lot of those apps and services that people are yelling about will be matched feature for feature on the PS4. Microsoft will not have a clear cut advantage when it comes to online gaming, apps, and services this time around.

ESPN is only on the Xbox. That alone is huge for many.

I'm pretty sure that both consoles will have apps that the other won't have, however it's looking more and more like the Xbox will get more cable networks/streaming apps on their side in comparison to Sony/PS. We'll see.

benny_a · Mar 3, 2013

enzo_gt said:
MS is trying to provide an integrated solution for everything in your living room. They want to replace your cable box, your DVD/Blu-Ray player, your Netflix machine and your gaming console all in one go. Oh and they're making sure it interfaces with every other device you own, from iOS to Android to WP7 to your PC.

Isn't the DVD/Blu-Ray player and Netflix and gaming console already one and the same device nowadays?
According to Andrew House the PS3 is the most commonly used device to watch Netflix.

About the cable box I don't know what kind of implications that has, as these are not common in the country I'm from. But isn't Hulu the thing that is making that obsolete? I remember hearing on the Bombcast that not much is missing to eliminate "DirectTV"?

Edit: ^^ Maybe the argument against these Hulu services and such was live sports coverage. ^^

enzo_gt said:
They're not trying to beat Sony in the gaming console market, they're trying to eliminate that market entirely. This is why people are worried about what Sony is doing, yeah it sounds nice and all from a core gamer's perspective, but if it doesn't catch on at large, the implications reach much further, and that includes for gamers. It's analogous to the Vita, and that's why people are skeptical.

Yeah, I see.

Rolf NB · Mar 3, 2013

The Crusty Juggler said:
From a gameplay perspective I think they would yea. They are a studio focused on telling a great story, and I personally think developers wanting to raise the bar for story and emotion in games is harming the industry. Especially when the story is via cut scenes or incredibly scripted moments.

Even if a game offends you, you could always simply not play it. What's the harm in having it on your favourite platform?

Dusky · Mar 3, 2013

The Crusty Juggler said:
From a gameplay perspective I think they would yea. They are a studio focused on telling a great story, and I personally think developers wanting to raise the bar for story and emotion in games is harming the industry. Especially when the story is via cut scenes or incredibly scripted moments.

Uncharted is very focused on story-telling.

DEADEVIL · Mar 3, 2013

Derrick01 said:
I certainly don't love their conferences either. But I give them a pass because E3 is what it is now, basically a shell of its former glory. I'm more interested in what the companies actually do throughout each year, and Sony released a lot of pretty diverse games over the last 4 years. That's good enough for me.

No actually what you do is when the hypocritical stance is called out then you completely shift the goal post.

First you call out MS for what it showed at E3, then you say that the gamers are casual.

When you get called out its. Umm I give them a pass because it's my console preference and that's 'good enough' .

The GAF 'Throwing Stones from Glass House' theory.

electroshockwave · Mar 3, 2013

I'd love to know how the story in Uncharted or Last of Us is meant to be more intrusive than Halo or Gears.

BruceLeeRoy · Mar 3, 2013

Jadedx said:
MS got most of the multiplat sales because they were known for having the better versions, if they lost that they lose sales, plain and simple. And how do you they will lost profit? Do you have access to the tech labs at ms? Do you know exactly what they are doing?

Multiplat titles sold more on 360 because by the time Sony rolled onto the scene thats where everyone was gaming. Your right that the first year absolutely damned Sony from a port perspective since every game released on the system was hugely inferior to the 360 but outside of the extremely limited gaming population that knows what Digital Foundry is and actually reads up on comparisons everybody was simply choosing the system their friends were on. Its why even abysmal ports of games like Bayonetta still sold almost neck and neck WW because the avg gamer doesn't know or care.

Regardless even with a weaker system Durango we will not see the same gulf of quality like we saw with the PS3 and 360 which had way more to do with the nightmare of programming on the PS3 than the tech advantages and disadvantages between the two systems.

enzo_gt · Mar 3, 2013

BoboBrazil said:
The people that seem to be supporting Microsoft in this thread, let me ask you why? What have they done for you to inspire such brand loyalty? Sony by all accounts so far is releasing the better system, has a better history of supporting systems longer(just look at the 2013 PS3 output when PS4 is coming this year), they will have the best versions of 3rd party titles due to the more powerful system and most likely more of them including more Japanese titles, their online system will now be incredible with instant playing of downloading titles while they are downloading, things like the share button, and of course cross party chat, and of course basic online play will most likely still be free. Why such loyalty to a company like MS, when they have stated their goal is to be the center of the living room, will have a bigger focus on apps and Kinect since it's being bundled, and charges for online play?

Supporting MS' attack angle for next gen doesn't equate to brand loyalty. And focus doesn't mean the core gaming box isn't ticked off, that's a terrible argument that seems to come up over and over again, and there's really no reason to think that. Same goes for people using Kinect as a scapegoat for their arguments. The rest of your argument pretty much sounds like "PS4 is better cause we know more about it," and having the most powerful system doesn't mean shit when the PS3 has been plagued with terrible ports all gen, so I'm not sure where your getting the idea that suddenly in 2013 the ports will become better either.

Hindle · Mar 3, 2013

Vire said:
You are making me very sad.

Very very sad.

Looking at your avatar, me and you will not see eye to eye over this

I'm not against story in games, just the way it's being presented via cut scenes and scripted QTE driven gameplay is what I'm against.

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