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Media Create Sales 1/21 - 1/27
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
I suppose by now Laguna understands why a Wii bomb makes 5 pages discussions and a bomb on any other system doesn't.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Jirotrom said:
So in the end it's... a videogame?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Smash is pretty casual of a game.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
It's a Nintendo fusion of the two. Core and Casual.A Link to the Snitch said:
You don't have Kid Icarus, Ice Climbers, Game and Watch, or R.O.B for casuals. The only people that would recognize them are the Core gamer. Or at least people that have been gaming for a fortnight.
Nintendo games have always held the mantra "Simple to pick up, and hard to master." Fun for everyone, not just the few. I like that approach.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
reilo said:
that implies that 'hardcore' games appeal to gaffers' tastes, which is factually false - i can give you multiple examples of 'gaffer x does not like hardcore game y'. heck, some gaffers hate gaming per se.
not all games appeal to everybody's tastes. more news at 11.
People have said it in this thread already, certainly better than I will right now, but SSBB can both be very casual and very hardcore. Characters such as Mario, or Pikachu and its spamming down B move can be very casual. On the flip side, I'm sure 90% of Brawl players do not/did not know of Pit's origins, nor do they know what the hell wave-dashing, spiking, and on and on are.
SSBB is a perfect blend of everything Nintendo (and not Nintendo in some ways). Unfortunately, as soon as this game hits multi-million in sales it will be coined a non-game. *sigh*
SSBB is a perfect blend of everything Nintendo (and not Nintendo in some ways). Unfortunately, as soon as this game hits multi-million in sales it will be coined a non-game. *sigh*
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
it's not the 'a lot of' part, it's the 'casual games' generalization that you imply. funny part is, a lot of people who fancy themselves as 'hardcore' would engage in non-games even without realizing it. for instance, there's a thread on the front page right now, where ps3 owners express excitement about something called 'home' on the ps3.reilo said:
what i find factually incorrect in your statement is that you claim that somebody does not like casual games as if it was some kind of a concrete genre, which is not the case.
blu said:
No, my entire argument was that most of GAF's tastes lie within the hardcore spectrum of videogames, and that when choosing to buy a game, they would more likely lean towards the hardcore.
Nobody said GAF doesn't play casual games. I just said that most of GAF's tastes lie within the hardcore genre. Stop putting words into my mouth.
Jirotrom said:
No, I saw it, but if you look at this generation, your criteria becomes even less useful. Sure Nintendo puts out a lot of games, and they're going to continue to do so. But both Sony & Microsoft have committed to, and followed through with, greatly increasing their first party publishing efforts this generation.
So, totally aside from the fact that, as a 3rd party, you're going to be competing against Nintendo's prodigious output on a console with a lower install base, you have to then compete against the increased output of either Sony or Microsoft. Right now, in Japan, the PS3 looks like the safest bet for 3rd parties, not so much because they don't have to compete with Sony as because Sony has severely dropped the ball with their first party software so far this gen (a lot of their efforts have had a more Western focus and haven't hit very well in Japan).
But saying, "Look, I'm selling better than Sony's first party," doesn't really mean much when your average sales are dropping 50-70% from prior levels, and your competitors are making fat sacks of cash on the Wii without having to even approach Nintendo's numbers.
Eteric Rice
Member
justchris said:
Well said.
*claps*
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
reilo said:
see, there's no 'hardcore genre' as a category. just as there is no 'casual genre' either. a person may like shmups, racers, solitaire and diving sims, and hate FPS's, athletic sports sims and tamagochi sims. now those are genres, and to those people tend to show preferences and anti-preferences. but does such a person 'lean towards the hardcore'? a person leans toward their favorite genres. and to be more precise, they lean toward what they play at the moment. if i love shmups but i play a session of solitaire at the moment how does this affect my inclination?
and frankly, the whole hardcore vs casual argument is hot air, mainly entertained by teenagers in desperate need of self-definition.
charlequin
Banned
Thunder Monkey said:
It's not a "Nintendo fusion." If anything, Nintendo is the company least interested in this sort of fusion (Smash specifically aside.) Traditionally, the biggest hit games are titles with solid gameplay that can win over the 10% (or whatever) of "hardcore," serious gaming enthusiasts, while hitting the right notes to sell those millions of copies to the 90% (again, or whatever) of the market that's casual gamers, people who don't read message boards or specialty press and who only buy a few games a year.
Nintendo's Wii strategy involves, in part, a realization that the right software can sell to that 90% (and draw some more people into it, even) without having to bother simultaneously appealing to the 10%.
Honestly, these arguments remind me of the ones started by trolls back when it was about how Nintendo was kiddy.
Can't we just recognize that these arguments are also started by trolls, and ignore them? For God's sake, the non-game casual/hardcore thing is so utterly irrelevant. Fact: The Wii has done well by appealing to the casual gamers. But there are also plenty of traditional games that do very well, too.
Can we get off this subject? Who CARES whether or not Smash Bros. is hard core? It's still awesome and going to sell like mad.
Can't we just recognize that these arguments are also started by trolls, and ignore them? For God's sake, the non-game casual/hardcore thing is so utterly irrelevant. Fact: The Wii has done well by appealing to the casual gamers. But there are also plenty of traditional games that do very well, too.
Can we get off this subject? Who CARES whether or not Smash Bros. is hard core? It's still awesome and going to sell like mad.
AdventureRacing
Member
I would say that SSBB is a hardcore game that also appeals to the masses. However what i don't understand is why we're even discussing it? What relevance does it have to sales-age? I can't believe this discussion has lasted like 5 pages or so what a waste of time.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I do think the whole casual vs hardcore game argument is retarded... but playing along:
The reason why smash is both casual and hardcore is because it can be played at different levels.
I consider something "hardcore" if it has a high difficulty level and/or depth, requires some time commitment to master or overcome the learning curve, etc.
Something "casual" is something you can pick up and play for a few minutes and have some fun with it.
Games like smash and guitar hero are both these. Beating through fire and flames on expert is pretty hardcore, but you can play on medium or easy and have some fun. Same with smash, you can play with friends and have some fun even if you are not that good or you can go insane and learn how to shine dash with fox and compete in tournaments.
The reason why smash is both casual and hardcore is because it can be played at different levels.
I consider something "hardcore" if it has a high difficulty level and/or depth, requires some time commitment to master or overcome the learning curve, etc.
Something "casual" is something you can pick up and play for a few minutes and have some fun with it.
Games like smash and guitar hero are both these. Beating through fire and flames on expert is pretty hardcore, but you can play on medium or easy and have some fun. Same with smash, you can play with friends and have some fun even if you are not that good or you can go insane and learn how to shine dash with fox and compete in tournaments.
You can diminish the significance of something to a certain group if you can somehow make people believe that it's "not for us" and hence "doesn't count". The threat that Smash Bros Brawl poses lies in how it demonstrates that there exist Japanese Wii owners who buy traditional games. This has been demonstrated before, but Smash is still unique because it's the first successfull competitive game on the Wii.AdventureRacing said:
The second hurdle after "but it's teh casual! I asked an average consumer and he confirms it!" is usually "It's a first-party Nintendo game, so it doesn't count.", so it's not as if there was no fallback plan, but it's good excercise to go the full course.
amtentori said:
Labels are fundamental to how humans function. There's no point decrying it, it's not going to make it stop. It's a lot more productive and fun to point out that the massive cognitive dissonance being felt has created a demand for someone to explain things that is palatable to a certain audience, and one way to deal with it is to cut off the proverbial nose to spite the face.
So I am only enjoying the show and pointing out all the problems to what people are doing. But on a basic level, I accept that there are casual games and hardcore games and there are some games that are non-games if you define games with a certain set criteria.
bcn-ron said:
With regards to the Wii You're over analyzing. The threat, if I am to pick one, is that SSB is actually a game and it is selling.
That said, a lot of the knocks against the Wii are well deserved. It's library is bad, not by historical standards, but my the (unfair) standards of comparing it to what else is out there. But I am equally offended by the Enon-esque house of cards campaign being mounted against it where illogical and discredited arguments, like Enron's losses are shuffled out to the way to help shore up the talking points of the week's MC thread.
Flakster99
Member
CoolTrick said:
No matter how small it or the reason it may be, everyone has an agenda, so I don't see these type of threads dying at all.
For some folk, there will always be layers (hoops) upon of layers (hoops) upon layers (hoops), and then some more layers (hoops) for the Wii, Nintendo, or even Microsoft and Sony to jump through, which is why I avoid at all fucking cost certain threads, posters.
Unfortunately, most sales related threads fall into said criteria; pointless, absurd, irrational, and good, quality posts are like a needle in a hay stack, of fluff.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
This is going back a few pages, but this comparison assumes mostly that doing more will make you a hardcore player. You can do a lot of stuff in Smash, and that might make you more hardcore than most, but I think the true essence of hardcore play comes from exhuming the hidden depth in the game. Pokemon has a fair bit of that too, of course.Eteric Rice said:
All of the best selling games are at least on the surface casual games. Let's just leave that definition there; it's played by casual players, so some of it must appeal to a casual player. I consider Vagrant Story a nice hardcore game. It might take hours to fully grasp the system and to build weapons and really get the full bloom of the game into focus. It's not terribly accessible since there is no immediate gratification from the system. It's really hard to just put the game on auto pilot and focus on defeating enemies and expect to make it through. You actually have to spend a lot of time with the game.
So is Smash any less hardcore when people spend years learning and perfecting techniques? I like to think of it like football. Your random meatball gets plenty of enjoyment out of the game because learning a set of rules isn't terribly difficult even if you watch on and off for a few years. But there is a whole layer of depth that people devote their entire lives to. The full nuances can't be understood without a lot of training. And it takes a lot of things. Knowledge. Intuition. Foresight. Skill. You can't take any of those components out. Remove knowledge and it's simply reactionary. Remove intuition and you're simply parroting back a series of facts.
So accessibility makes something casual, and a lot of times casual does trend toward simple since the easiest way to make something accessible is to remove some of the depth so that you boil it down to a few functions that can be easily learned yet harder to master. It is something else entirely to make a complex system that takes a lot of time to both learn and master, and it is incredibly rare to then make those sorts of things somehow accessible.
I'm not a hardcore Smasher, so I couldn't tell you the full depth of the game. I couldn't tell you if it's all that deep. I just think there are games out there that exist on all points of the fence.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
I'm going to do one of those posts that most people ignore although it should be interesting if you are really interested in sales-age...
This week, on Thursday 7th, the new Giren no Yabou will be released.
Kidou Senshi Gundam: Giren no Yabou - Axis no Kyoui for the PSP
Lastest entry came in 2002 on PS2, after Saturn and PlayStation entries. Lets take a look at the main entries (first week, LTD):
Quickly after each entry, a revision called Kouryaku Shireisho would be unleashed on the same system, so its likely that the same will happen to the newest entry:
Rather easy to see, Zeon no Keifu was the most successful entry, and it also got 2 ports, one of them on PSP back on 2005. (contradicting data: sinobi reports ~90k sales for the PSP port, I'll continue to use YSO anyway).
Thanks to sinobi, I just read about Namdai expectations. 200k first week and 300k LTD, fairly similar to the latest entry on PS2. A new LE PSP (red/black) with the game will be released as well.
I think this is another good chance to see what PSP can do with an important franchise. We'll see when the data strikes!
This week, on Thursday 7th, the new Giren no Yabou will be released.
Kidou Senshi Gundam: Giren no Yabou - Axis no Kyoui for the PSP
Lastest entry came in 2002 on PS2, after Saturn and PlayStation entries. Lets take a look at the main entries (first week, LTD):
Code:
　▼　Giren no Yabou 98.04.09 SS 112,709 231,455
　▼　Giren no Yabou: Zeon no Keifu 00.02.10 PS 238,496 536,599
　▼　Giren no Yabou: Zeon Dokuritsu Sensouden 02.05.02 PS2 205,807 371,436
Code:
　▼　Giren no Yabou Kouryaku Shireisho 98.10.08 SS 32,046 46,034
　▼　Giren no Yabou: Zeon no Keifu Kouryaku Shireisho 00.06.29 PS 55,958 104,339
　▼　Giren no Yabou: Zeon Dokuritsu Sensouden Kouryaku Shireisho 03.02.20 PS2 26,587 57,121
Code:
　▼　Giren no Yabou: Zeon no Keifu 00.06.29 DC 18,767 42,333
　▼　Giren no Yabou: Zeon no Keifu 05.08.11 PSP 22,089 52,887Thanks to sinobi, I just read about Namdai expectations. 200k first week and 300k LTD, fairly similar to the latest entry on PS2. A new LE PSP (red/black) with the game will be released as well.
I think this is another good chance to see what PSP can do with an important franchise. We'll see when the data strikes!
Arcade Pack Traveling Overseas
Japan getting new entry-level system.
by John Tanaka
February 3, 2008 - Microsoft Japan announced today plans for the Japanese release of the Xbox 360 Arcade SKU. The entry-level system will hit the East on March 6 carrying a price point of 27,800 yen.
While this is the same price as the current Core System, the arcade bundle includes the HDMI-equipped 360 system, a 256 megabyte Memory Unit, a wireless controller, and a a special Xbox Live Arcade Omniverse Disc, which contains copies of Feeding Frenzy, Pac-man Championship Edition, Luxor 2, Uno, and Boom-Boom Rocket. The games alone are worth 3,600 Microsoft Points, or about 5,400 yen.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/849/849257p1.html
Rancid Mildew
Banned
Tickets said:
Actually it did. I'm not sure the GCN would have hit 4 million without Melee. SSBB should increase the Wii's userbase handsomely. It's a system seller if there ever was one.
Besides, your point is pointless. The Wii's hardware sales situation is the last thing that requires any change.
Brawl is the fastest selling core game on any next-gen system in Japan -- by far. If anything, it shows a userbase to support these sort of titles is already there (on a supposedly very non-gamer / family / party console), and will only grow stronger and larger from here on out. Not that it will matter much anyway, Mario Kart is almost there so that leaves Galaxy, Brawl and Mario Kart to sell the system to the core crowd, as well as the casual crowd, untill (?) other titles will hit the system to fill the void.
Oh wait, those games are already hugely populair and did fantastic even on gamecube so I guess they don't count. Right gaf.
Oh wait, those games are already hugely populair and did fantastic even on gamecube so I guess they don't count. Right gaf.
I agree with a lot of this and what others have already said.Neomoto said:
The point is SSBB's opening numbers add to a line of successful 'proper' games on Wii, potentially bucking the declining trend that was going on in Japan for many franchises and the kind of gaming that was popular last gen.
SMG opened with lower sales than expected, and there were notions this kind of gaming was struggling on Wii, and the system was destined to become a home to 'mini-game'/'non-game' success only, even for Nintendo. However, now the holiday season is over, there is significant cumulative success for 'traditional' gaming on the system, which bodes well for its future.
I don't think anyone here is saying anything more than this, certainly nothing like, SSBB selling well means Wii is now the definitive hardcore gamer's system and all this content is destined to sell through the roof, even for 3rd parties.
Wii becoming a PS2 level success, is going to happen one step at a time, and there are many steps, SSBB selling well is just one of them. It's another positive for Wii.
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
I think that's the safer option. I wish sinobi would specify the source for more of his LTD totals, though. Especially ones like this where it doesn't seem to be from Famitsu.
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
I think this is a case of Namco overestimating sales for one of its titles, again, but if it does do as well as the PS2 version, it could be a sign that the newer PSP buyers might actually be interested in UMD software for the system.
Tickets said:
The Wii probably didn't even have most of the former Nintendo core gamers on board for the majority of last year, so SSBB doing so well indicates that at least a good portion of those core gamers are back. You are new, so you probably missed that part of the discussion from the last several weeks. It's not "SSBB did well? The shock!" but rather "SSBB did well? Hopefully that means core gamers are getting back on the system!"
Edit: Sort of what Neomoto and ziran said.
dolemite said:
We'll find out in two days. I'm not expecting a huge bump for Wii in this first week (< 200K for the week), but I am hoping for a sustained bump over the next several weeks with correspondingly good weekly sales for Smash, assuming there's stock. Maybe Galaxy will get a good boost, too.
donny2112 said:We'll find out in two days. I'm not expecting a huge bump for Wii in this first week (< 200K for the week), but I am hoping for a sustained bump over the next several weeks with correspondingly good weekly sales for Smash, assuming there's stock. Maybe Galaxy will get a good boost, too.
Yeah, I'm interested to see whether Galaxy goes up, and whether RE:UC climbs back into the top 30.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
Yeah, I'm wary of sinobi numbers (like Disgaea issue), I don't know if its a mistake or another source (the other data matches with Famitsu though). Maybe he is adding DC numbers to the PSP ones lol.donny2112 said:
And I also agree 200k is pushing it for the first week. Reading YSO predictions I find some more logical numbers (from 75 to 125k usually). Anyway we'll see if Namdai ships 200k or more...wouldn't surprise anyone if they shipped less than their own expectations.
Btw, Derby Stallion DS (Enterbrain) has been delayed from March 27 to June. I wonder if this could be as big as SNES, PSX or PS2 entries (900k, 1'7m, 870k, 615k) or it'll be like GBA and PSP ones (both 125k).
On another note from gamefront, seems Sony will do retailer meetings on February 5, 6 and 8 (in other words, this week). Expect dates for upcoming games and that stuff (PS3 The Best! editions dates?, new SKUs?). Hope for games announcements, although its not as likely. Oh, and take into account PS2 and PSP are still alive.
I'd expect Doubutsu no Mori and Monster Hunter 3 to be key filler also. FFCC if it ever shows up and maybe Kirby too.Neomoto said:
There's lots of room for lower tier notables like Shiren 3, Symphonia KOR and Fatal Frame 4... but we'll have to see really how well they hold up in 2008. 2007 wasn't exactly great for 2nd/3rd tier Wii games...