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LttP: 999. Don't be fooled. (spoilers)

T

TheExodu5

Banned
I can't believe I got duped into buying this. I can't believe I was fooled into thinking the story would be good. I can't believe I tricked into thinking the ending would make it all worth it.

What a slap in the face.

- The "game" portion of 999 was a mindless click fest. Even though the answers were fairly obvious, the game designers felt the need to have your companions blurt out the answer every time.

- Replaying the same game 5 times to uncover the endings is not fun, especially when 3 of those endings are completely pointless (
axe, knife, submarine
). This includes having to repeat the same puzzles over and over again.

- Having the same long winded explanations throughout the safe end true endings was tiresome.

- The payoff was absolutely not worth it. The big reveal results in a time paradox not worthy of Star Trek stupidity. June died in the past and somehow became Zero in the future so that she could have Junpei transmit information to her back in the past to save her? The fuck?
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
So you made this thread as a warning for people who haven't played it, but at the same time made it a spoilers thread so people who haven't played it would avoid it?

Disagree on the "mindless click fest" part in any case.

And you not exactly playing the "same game" each time, if you only played the game once you'd miss out on like 60% of the content.
 
A

Aeana

Member
So you learned that visual novels aren't for you.
Valuable lesson!

Though the way the final ending played out did bother me.
wahhh jumpy what is this puzzle [sudoku] I don't know how to do it what is it [sudoku] whine whine whine WHAT DO I DO OMG [IT'S SUDOKU JUST LET ME DO IT ALREADY]
 
T

TheExodu5

Banned
Point taken. Spoilered.

Aeana said:
So you learned that visual novels aren't for you.
Valuable lesson!
Click to expand...

I learned that visual novels with horrendous stories are not for me.

I love Phoenix Wright. This...was just bad. In terms of plot, it makes Back to the Future look smart by comparison.

I'm mostly angry that everyone was raving at how incredibly and mindblowing the ending was. I have no idea how anyone could think that. That's the only mindblowing thing about it.
 
A

Aeana

Member
TheExodu5 said:
Point taken. Spoilered.



I learned that visual novels with horrendous stories are not for me.

I love Phoenix Wright. This...was just bad. In terms of plot, it makes Back to the Future look smart by comparison.

I'm mostly angry that everyone was raving at how incredibly and mindblowing the ending was. I have no idea how anyone could think that. That's the only mindblowing thing about it.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't like it nearly as much as everybody else, either, but it was pretty good, final ending frustrations aside.

It's too bad nobody ever translated 428, because that game deserves the praise 999 gets. Hopefully Time Travelers is as good and gets translated.
 
C

cosmicblizzard

Banned
It's a visual novel. Complaining that it's a clickfest is the same thing as complaining Madden requires you to throw around a spheroid ball.
 
S

sorijealut

Member
You really needed to digest a lot until the ending.

I found the ending quite refreshing especially after all those routes, albeit a little unusual.
 
J

jk-mox

Neo Member
The main issue is that a boatload of people apparently don't know the difference between writing and storyline.

The storyline is interesting, the writing is mostly mediocre.
 
T

TheExodu5

Banned
cosmicblizzard said:
It's a visual novel. Complaining that it's a clickfest is the same thing as complaining Madden requires you to throw around a spheroid ball.
Click to expand...

The game would have been better if the puzzles were more intelligent than "computer the digital root"! What was worse is that your companions blurt out the answers every time. "Oh, maybe if you do this, this, and this, you'll solve the puzzle!"

The puzzles would have been far more enjoyable had they been a tad more cryptic, or if they tied into the the story in some way.

jk-mox said:
The main issue is that a boatload of people apparently don't know the difference between writing and storyline.

The storyline is interesting, the writing is mostly mediocre.
Click to expand...

The storyline was terrible. Seriously. It's one of the worst
time paradoxes
I've ever encountered in a story.

Instro said:
Honestly it sounds like visual novels are not for you.
Click to expand...

I've made it clear that I'm not averse to digital novels. If the gameplay was 999's only issue, it wouldn't be so bad. The point of a digital novel is to tell a story, and if that story is terrible, so is the game.
 
I

IAmtheFMan

Member
For what it's worth, I agree with the op. Unfortunately, my complaints in the actual thread were met with patronizing, "lol, visual novels not for u!!!"

It's a good premise that started off strong, but waned by the 4th or 5th time you played, and got bogged down in its own verbosity. Granted I didn't feel as antipathetic as you did towards the story... I just simply wanted to be done by the end.
 
S

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
Yeah, I got duped into this one too. I played through it once, got a bad ending, started a second game, got bored quickly, looked at the ending spoilers and was immediately glad I stopped playing. I would have been amazingly pissed if I played through to the real ending and got THAT as a payoff.

Fuck that shit. Went back to GameStop the next day.
 
F

Franklinator

Member
I really liked the story, but I stopped when
I got the knife ending.
It seemed completely out of my control and random that it ended like that. So I never went back and got a better ending, because I didn't feel like doing everything again
 
H

hosannainexcelsis

Member
TheExodu5 said:
I can't believe I got duped into buying this. I can't believe I was fooled into thinking the story would be good. I can't believe I tricked into thinking the ending would make it all worth it.

What a slap in the face.
Click to expand...

I'm always amused by people who imply that everyone who liked and praised a game they didn't end up liking didn't really like it, but were secretly a part of a vast conspiracy to trick other people into playing terrible games.

Anyway, as for some of your complaints:

- The "game" portion of 999 was a mindless click fest. Even though the answers were fairly obvious, the game designers felt the need to have your companions blurt out the answer every time.
Click to expand...

The puzzles of 999 were fairly simple and straightforward - that's actually something I appreciated compared to some adventure games with convoluted puzzle solutions or weird things you have to do to trigger the next plot event that send me running to an FAQ. Your companions gave you increasingly more direct hints as you toyed around with stuff, but I personally didn't feel it got to the point of egregious hand-holding. They often had amusing things to say as you examined items.

- Replaying the same game 5 times to uncover the endings is not fun, especially when 3 of those endings are completely pointless (
axe, knife, submarine
). This includes having to repeat the same puzzles over and over again.
Click to expand...

Having to replay puzzles was unfortunate - that and the lack of multiple save slots were my biggest gripes with the game. Every ADV/VN with multiple endings needs to design the game in such a way to make replaying as painless as possible. Nevertheless, the text fast-forward option and the fact that puzzles were rather quick to get through once you knew how made it not too bad. Plus, each ending path had unique puzzle rooms; it wasn't like you were solving all of the same puzzles all the time. The endings you mention aren't pointless; they pose questions and mysteries that the later endings answer. I got those first and they raised my interest for what was to come.

- The payoff was absolutely not worth it. The big reveal results in a time paradox not worthy of Star Trek stupidity. June died in the past and somehow became Zero in the future so that she could have Junpei transmit information to her back in the past to save her? The fuck?
Click to expand...

It's not a paradox; it's a stable time loop. June never died in the past because Junpei was there to save her; Junpei was there to save her because June survived to set up the events to put him in a similar position. It makes as much internal sense as any quasi-time travel story does.
 
T

TheExodu5

Banned
IAmtheFMan said:
It's a good premise that started off strong, but waned by the 4th or 5th time you played, and got bogged down in its own verbosity. Granted I didn't feel as antipathetic as you did towards the story... I just simply wanted to be done by the end.
Click to expand...

That's one point I probably should have stressed more. It really got ridiculous by the end.
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
My girlfriend loved the shit out of this game. I think she played it six times or something.
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
People still can't tell the difference between adventure games and visual novels.

Seraphis Cain said:
Yeah, I got duped into this one too. I played through it once, got a bad ending, started a second game, got bored quickly, looked at the ending spoilers and was immediately glad I stopped playing. I would have been amazingly pissed if I played through to the real ending and got THAT as a payoff.

Fuck that shit. Went back to GameStop the next day.
Click to expand...

As far as I am concerned the ending is the least important part of the story. It occurs after you've stopped playing, thus there is no more need for an atmosphere. I didn't like it much, but it didn't affect me. Liked everything up until the very end, aside from the character designs.
 
S

sorijealut

Member
For me, I first start by creating a rough draft of the characters' personalities. Then I make a sort of rough draft of the setting. Next, I figure out the "twist" for the story, and work toward that by coming up with a plot that fits that particular twist perfectly. So the "twist" comes first, basically. Of course, the characters and the setting that I come up with early on almost always end up drastically changed. I write a rough draft, then draw a line, then erase my rough draft, then draw a new line... It's just that process over and over. I don't know when it's "done" until I finish writing the whole script. I always write my stories thinking "I wonder what's going to happen to these guys afterwards?" Overall, I don't change the "twist", but I will change the story A LOT to get to it. So far as inspiration goes, all that I can say is that it mostly comes from me, while I'm writing my drafts. I believe that when I concentrate very hard on writing, all of my worldly thoughts just go away, so perhaps that has something to do with it. Also, this particular idea is in the game as well, but I need some danger to have that moment of clarity and inspiration. The closer I get to a deadline, the more I'll think "Crap! The deadline is coming up!" and that helps me come up with great ideas. So I'll try to work myself into a corner like that, and I also have the product manager and the other people on the team to help me out by getting me into that mode of thinking.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the long quote, but there it is. This is how he writes his stories and I found it oh so interesting.
He isn't such a random writer as one would expect. He really has a unique style that deserves attention.

Their official site is a really useful place to go to for 999 discussion. He addresses many questions the player might have.
SPOILERS
http://www.aksysgames.com/999/answers
 
H

hosannainexcelsis

Member
Aeana said:
Though the way the final ending played out did bother me.
wahhh jumpy what is this puzzle [sudoku] I don't know how to do it what is it [sudoku] whine whine whine WHAT DO I DO OMG [IT'S SUDOKU JUST LET ME DO IT ALREADY]
Click to expand...

Ha ha, that was amusing.
I just took the sudoku puzzle as symbolic, since the idea that all this rigmarole was necessary just to get Junpei to solve one of those is ludicrous.
 
C

cosmicblizzard

Banned
Franklinator said:
I really liked the story, but I stopped when
I got the knife ending.
It seemed completely out of my control and random that it ended like that. So I never went back and got a better ending, because I didn't feel like doing everything again
Click to expand...

It is out of your control for the most part, especially since (don't look if you plan to go back to it)
it is impossible to get a "good" ending on the first playthrough)
. It all ties in to the whole overarching plot and is quite mindblowing when you realize why.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
It's not a paradox; it's a stable time loop. June never died in the past because Junpei was there to save her; Junpei was there to save her because June survived to set up the events to put him in a similar position. It makes as much internal sense as any quasi-time travel story does.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a stable time loop

The only thing that didn't make sense was the puzzle with the present characters faces
since you solve all the puzzles as June in the past
but other than that its pretty consistent

They even use knowledge of the future to fund the game
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
TheExodu5 said:
- Replaying the same game 5 times to uncover the endings is not fun, especially when 3 of those endings are completely pointless (
axe, knife, submarine
). This includes having to repeat the same puzzles over and over again.
Click to expand...

Those endings weren't pointless within the context of the game.

And I have to disagree with you. I loved the story of the game. It isn't a
dumb time paradox in my opinion. It is a stable time loop that was done rather well as far as I am concerned.
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
cosmicblizzard said:
It is out of your control for the most part, especially since (don't look if you plan to go back to it)
it is impossible to get a "good" ending on the first playthrough)
. It all ties in to the whole overarching plot and is quite mindblowing when you realize why.
Click to expand...

What I liked about 999 was that you could figure out what to do based by judging how people acted when grouped or separated from you. I suppose most people used guides?
 
I

Instro

Member
TheExodu5 said:
I've made it clear that I'm not averse to digital novels. If the gameplay was 999's only issue, it wouldn't be so bad. The point of a digital novel is to tell a story, and if that story is terrible, so is the game.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, then why complain about the game mechanics? Just struck me as odd. If you dont like the story, thats fine, although I think some of the points about the plot you made are incorrect.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
Franklinator said:
I really liked the story, but I stopped when
I got the knife ending.
It seemed completely out of my control and random that it ended like that. So I never went back and got a better ending, because I didn't feel like doing everything again
Click to expand...

You should try it again, taking different paths leads to some wildly different rooms and story stuff.

The one thing I will say is that redoing puzzles over and over could get tedious, and while there is some text skip it still takes a while to skip portions of story you've seen in other playthroughs.
 
F

Franklinator

Member
cosmicblizzard said:
It is out of your control for the most part, especially since (don't look if you plan to go back to it)
it is impossible to get a "good" ending on the first playthrough)
. It all ties in to the whole overarching plot and is quite mindblowing when you realize why.
Click to expand...

Whoa, that actually makes me want to start playing again to see how it all ties together!
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
I'm trying real hard to remember, but I don't recall the other characters giving you all the answers. I think I need to go revisit the game real quick.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Seraphis Cain said:
Yeah, I got duped into this one too. I played through it once, got a bad ending, started a second game, got bored quickly, looked at the ending spoilers and was immediately glad I stopped playing. I would have been amazingly pissed if I played through to the real ending and got THAT as a payoff.

Fuck that shit. Went back to GameStop the next day.
Click to expand...

You...kinda missed the point by reading the ending. 999 may not be very "well written" by some standards (I think it would have benefited from a ground up rewrite, not a translation) but it did some incredibly experimental stuff with interactive narrative that you only really can appreciate by playing it blind.
Its one of the first video game stories that I feel comfortable saying would not have the same impact or effectiveness in a linear, non-interactive medium.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
I pretty much disagree with all your issues. The only one that I can relate to is having to replay puzzles, but even that didn't bother me that much as you can breeze through them quite quickly on subsequent playthroughs.

But were you really "duped" into buying it? You bought it based on whatever information about the game you sought out prior to your purchase. The information about repeating puzzles and multiple endings/playthroughs were all readily available on the net. And did you try the online demo?

And I also love the Ace Attorney series, very much so, but it's not like it doesn't have it's fair share of ridiculous explanations and extremely wordy cut scenes. This is a very common part of adventure games/visual novels.

You just didn't click with the story and the game play, but I don't think this is any sort of situation where 999 is a dud masquerading as a cult classic because it's "different". It just so happens what many people like about the game (the story, the atmosphere, the characters and the unique take on multiple endings) did not resonate with you.

It's too bad that you didn't enjoy it, no one likes devoting time to something that doesn't have a satisfying conclusion for them, but that's a part of being a gamer sometimes.
 
T

TheExodu5

Banned
Gunloc said:
But were you really "duped" into buying it? You bought it based on whatever information about the game you sought out prior to your purchase. The information about repeating puzzles and multiple endings/playthroughs were all readily available on the net.
Click to expand...

I was being dramatic. I bought it on the premise that the story was good.

There were just so many red herrings and inconsistencies, as well as a pretty ridiculous premise for the story in the first place.
 
T

TheExodu5

Banned
Lindbergh said:
OP enjoyed the music at least, right?
Click to expand...

That I did, though I wish there were more tracks.

I'd say it was the highest point of the game. The game did ooze a fantastic style, and the music was a big part of that. It felt like a very interesting take on Saw at first. It's a shame the premise of the plot and motivations of the characters were so poorly developed.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
TheExodu5 said:
I was being dramatic. I bought it on the premise that the story was good.

There were just so many red herrings and inconsistencies, as well as a pretty ridiculous premise for the story in the first place.
Click to expand...

999 has, I think, the reverse problem of most game stories, where the presentation was weak but the core story behind it was good. I think that as good of a translation job as they did, converting something that enormous from Japanese was going to screw with a lot of the tone and pacing, and so there were more then a few scenes that felt drawn out or arbitrary.
 
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