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If (when?) Too Human bombs hard, is Silicon Knights toast?

Tiktaalik

Member
Too Human is probably one of the most controversial games to come along in quite some time. The demo thread alone currently stands at 48 pages. While I haven't gone through all 48 of those pages to create an exact tally, the feeling I've gotten from reading it is that a strong percentage, if not a majority have decided not to buy the game based on the demo. As well, recently the I would describe the media feeling about the game as tepid. I'd describe it as negative, except that complaints are almost always framed in uncertain, neutral language, possibly because game journalists are so aware of Dyack's complaints regarding preview/reviews.

With high budget HD generation games we aren't too often surprised by critical response and sales. Most games that are expected to do poorly do poorly, and most that are expected to do well do well. Assassin's Creed is the only game I can think of at the moment that had mixed critical response, but did well regardless. Importantly, Assassin's Creed did not have a demo.

My personal feeling about the title, based on my own experience with the game and the impressions from the demo thread, is that it will get mediocre to poor reviews with the average being between 60-70.

Assuming that there isn't an Assassin's Creedlike rejection of reviews, Too Human could very well do quite poorly. It could bomb, or it might just be a mediocre disappointment, but in either case I'm wondering about the future of Silicon Knights.

At one point Silicon Knights was a flag bearer for Microsoft's software lineup, but it seems like it's been a lot more unloved recently. Too Human is planned as a trilogy, but if Too Human fails to live up to expectations, I wonder if Microsoft might just drop the series, and if that happens I wonder what will happen to Silicon Knights. They seem to have an unbelievable amount of resources invested in Too Human, and unlike many independent developers, they have no other IP projects in the pipeline, at least, not that we've been told about. As well, there is that nasty lawsuit against Epic regarding Unreal 3 to deal with.

We've seen companies fall apart after one failure before, so it's not out of the question.

One thing that may aid Too Human is the advertising, which I think is really good. Here is the ad from the recent EGM.

2lcla4l.jpg


okak4x.jpg


I don't know I thought it looked rad.

I'm sure some will object to my position that Too Human will do poorly. There were certainly folks in the demo thread that loved the game. I'd be curious to hear what sort of critical response people think it will get, or for folks who work at game stores, what the local hype is like.
 

PacoDG

Member
The demo grew on me.

I don't think outside the "hardcore" gaming communities, Too Human had a place, so I am not sure how high expectations are for the game or what kind of projections Microsoft has as far as sales, I wouldn't think that much.

This game won't break Silicon Knights anyways, I believe if Too Human does indeed tank though, they will be given one last shot or something.
 

Wollan

Member
I really doubt it will bomb in a commercial sense. I'm expecting over a mill before the end of the year.
 
Wollan said:
I really doubt it will bomb in a commercial sense. I'm expecting over a mill before the end of the year.

didn't I read somewhere that the damn thing has already over a million pre-orders? I'm not a hater or anything, but I'm just saying.....really, a million for Too Human.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I thought they already had a deal on the table with another huge company, I want to say it is Namco
 
I have not played the demo yet (my friend has and loves it). I am skeptical of demos, as I have played alot of games that had great demos (Dark Messiah: Might and Magic) but the full version of the game just fell flat (bugs and what not, and I am talking about the PC version).
 

krzyspc

Banned
MikeE21286 said:
didn't I read somewhere that the damn thing has already over a million pre-orders? I'm not a hater or anything, but I'm just saying.....really, a million for Too Human.

That might have been from what might be a bogus report from a retail store.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
I also forgot to mention the nasty lawsuit against Epic with regards to Unreal 3, and I edited my post to include that info. That could also be a problem for them if Too Human does not meet sales expectations and they lose the lawsuit.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
I think it'll be a sales success regardless of anything else. It seems pretty anticipated among people who don't hang out on the Internet and hate Dyack.
 
clashfan said:
Alot of companies have bombs and still recover, why would it be different for SK?
Well, it's because SK doesn't have a history of big sellers and the huge amount of money that must've been spent on Too Human means that MS and others are going out on a limb. So yes, I would say they'd be toast for all intents and purposes because a bomb of such huge proportions would keep them from finding a publisher thereafter.

However, I don't think it will bomb.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Ventrue said:

yeah that's right!

so far they have been contracted by Nintendo, Konami, MS and next Sega... plus Too Human has 2 more games coming after this.. Sooooo I am pretty sure SK is in GREAT shape
 

Wallach

Member
I honestly don't think there's much of a chance that this bombs at retail. I think it will probably hit 1m without much trouble.
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Battersea Power Station said:
Well, it's because SK doesn't have a history of big sellers and the huge amount of money that must've been spent on Too Human means that MS and others are going out on a limb. So yes, I would say they'd be toast for all intents and purposes because a bomb of such huge proportions would keep them from finding a publisher thereafter.

However, I don't think it will bomb.

Silicon Knights would have had a million seller with Eternal Darkness if Nintendo knew how to advertise a mature rated game. Instead, they showed ads at 2 in the morning during Raw reruns. With that pathetic attitude towards the game, it was going to fail.
 
What highly hyped game for 360 has sold poorly? I don't think Too Human will break that trend. It won't do Halo or Gears numbers, but Fable like numbers are a good bet.
 
No matter how much Too Human sells or scores I don't think we'll ever hear the end of it from Dyack. I just know, the first person to give Too Human a 6/10 will get torn to shreds by Dyack. And he'll be ranting about it on ever board and podcast he can muster.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
SK owns SK.

Also Too Human is shipping up to be the next 360 game of the Month, Football Excluded. :lol
 

Farnack

Banned
What was the budget again?

I heard the rumoured 100 million, but that's got to be bull because that would make Dyack a thief.
 
Either way Dyack is going to have some sort of a meltdown of epic proportions on a 1up Podcast and/or through posting here. Neither possibility will be pretty.
 
I agree that GAF is ludicrously hard on Too Human.
The more times I tried the demo the more I was sold on the title.
Like it or not, it will likely garner reasonable reviews (some extremes in either direction I'm guessing) and I expect it to perform quite well sales-wise.

Most people who rag on the game seem to have no idea how to play it (play it well anyway).
I found the camera off-putting at first. Same goes for the right-stick melee combat.
After a few plays of the demo I was getting 180 combo chains without hitting at thin air or dying once.

GamerGeorge said:
Well, it has been in development for like ten years...

No it hasn't. The concept has.
There were some early PS1 builds/tech demos, but when SK worked on Eternal Darkness and Metal Gear there was no work on Too Human.
The current Too Human was built ground-up for the 360. It's not like there was any previous generation build that was ported to the current build.
 

FoneBone

Member
Is their Sega game actually still in the works? Their deal was announced back in spring '05, and there's still no official word.
 
FoneBone said:
Is their Sega game actually still in the works? Their deal was announced back in spring '05, and there's still no official word.

There is a Sega game in the works, as well as one the Canadian Government mentioned.
They're meant to be separate titles.
 
Too Human will probably sell a million. Maybe 2 million.

I hope the game doesn't sink SK, I'd like ED2 to happen before then.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Farnack said:
What was the budget again?

I heard the rumoured 100 million, but that's got to be bull because that would make Dyack a thief.

70 I heard
 

bdouble

Member
Maybe instead of just going off of what you saw in one forum on just the pages you looked at you should count them and then make the call. Honestly even doing that wouldn't give you that great of a gauge on how this game will do because most of the people hear were affected by everything prior to release and the Dyack fiasco.

I think it will do just fine. SK will be fine if the game goes either way.
 

Opiate

Member
Man God said:
SK owns SK.

Also Too Human is shipping up to be the next 360 game of the Month, Football Excluded. :lol

Actually, I just looked this up. It's joint owned: Silicon Knights (aka Privately owned) and Nintendo.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Blackace said:
yeah that's right!

so far they have been contracted by Nintendo, Konami, MS and next Sega... plus Too Human has 2 more games coming after this.. Sooooo I am pretty sure SK is in GREAT shape

Oh really I didn't know about this Sega project at all. If they have something good going on there then that certainly defeats my argument. The only reason I was concerned with the well being of Silicon Knights was because I really thought they had everything invested in Too Human.

Also I totally forgot about the fact that it's August. This alone I think will give the game a big bump, considering that there has been so little released recently. This really helps defeat my argument.

It is interesting to muse about what exactly would make this game a bomb. I feel like it's a high budget project, but how much of that can sort of be argued to cover the entire trilogy? At what point could the title maybe not make a profit, but where it could be argued that it could make up the slack on a cheaper second title?

What do people expect for the first month? 500k? 300k?
 

Tiktaalik

Member
jaundicejuice said:
Dude, what are you talking about?

Apparently some Ontario Arts organization kicked in 1 million for Silicon Knights to make a demo to pitch around I guess. Silicon Knights is one of the(the only?) Ontario games company of note.
 
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