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Tintin book is crude, racist and must be banned, says watchdog
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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Adam Blade
WWKC
... what would they think of Lucky Luke?
MassiveAttack
Banned
*Hugs massive Tintin book collection from childhood*
Do people not realize sometimes what YEAR things were made in? To ban a book from the god damn 1930s because of racial undertones is god damn stupid. I ****ing hate America so much sometimes.
also, ps, I'm enraged that Tintin, of all things, is being picked on. Tintin hardly ever made more than blip in the radar in America.
also, ps, I'm enraged that Tintin, of all things, is being picked on. Tintin hardly ever made more than blip in the radar in America.
Stoney Mason
Banned
okno said:
Reading ftw!
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
heh now thats ****ed up cover art, the old days...glad i wasnt there.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Stoney Mason
Banned
Blackace said:
A Taiwanese friend told me about it years ago.
All you can do is laugh...Of course their culture is just responding to a sterotype but still it reminds you of how difficult it is to be a black kid and grow up with a positive self image and self worth.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Tintin in the Congo is racist? SAY IT AIN'T SO!
I thought this was well known, and that before Blue Lotus, Herge was kind of a dick when making his books.
I think Congo and Land of the Soviets aren't really marketed towards children anyways, and were more of an adult thing to have for history, etc.
I thought this was well known, and that before Blue Lotus, Herge was kind of a dick when making his books.
I think Congo and Land of the Soviets aren't really marketed towards children anyways, and were more of an adult thing to have for history, etc.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Cdammen said:
There really isn't an easy answer for this. Because I enjoyed Tin Tin and all that. But it is still painful as an adult to see such images. The 30s isn't that long ago. my father was born in 1935 so people from that age still live, and most likely their ideas do too. Just because in the 30s people were racist doesn't make it ok for today. And I am not saying Tin Tin needs to be removed and edit or anything like that. But just saying in the 30s people were like that, doesn't make it cool. And yeah certain forms of entertainment are not acceptable today at all... by the logic of what you say, we should just be happy with black face comedy or buck tooth chinamen in cartoons..
Well... we shouldn't be happy with current cartoons making use of stereotypes. I'm just saying that what's done is done and stands as a statement and a reminder of how stupid and ignorant we were in the old days.Blackace said:
I hate when people homogenize and alter culture to fit today's society. What's done is done. Move on, make a better future. Stop looking back!
Erasing it from history isn't what should happen though...Blackace said:
But maybe, just maybe some of these old properties should be made available to people old enough to understand what they're absorbing from a historical context. Tintin in the adult section? All good by me. Uncut old theatrical cartoons on DVDs with disclaimers? Also perfectly fine.
No no, they shouldn't alter it and they shouldn't even show it on TV. Just leave it in a museum or something. I cringe whenever I see such blatant stereotypical portrayalBlackace said:
Sound like a good idea.Dan said:
(EDIT) Hey, If Hitler's Mein Kampf can be released and unaltered. These things must exist to remind us of how ****ing stupid we were back then. Like Dan is saying, erasing them from history is not a good thing... but yeah, limiting the distribution is a good way to go.
I have the Disney Treasures Donald DVD (1934 - 1941) and that one contains warnings and an introduction trying to explain why things are portrayed as they are.
I don't believe it's either wise or healthy for a society to hide from its past indiscretions. Bugs Bunny playing up racist black stereotypes SHOULD be shown, with the appropriate disclaimers, to remind people of what things were like. Disney has done a pretty good job of putting material like that out there with its Disney Treasures line of DVDs, especially with WWII propaganda films, and they're doing it for exactly that reason.Blackace said:
These sorts of things are pieces of history, snapshots of time. It's like how Triumph of the Will is often shown in history classes and even film classes, despite being a Nazi propaganda film. It's impossible to truly know the past without experiencing it.
Putting this Tintin book in the kids' section was probably a dumb idea, but it shouldn't be pulled just because it's not politically correct, especially when it already bears a warning and disclaimer from the publisher about its content.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
cicero said:They still regularly air The Jazz Singer with Al Jolson doing his Mammy number in full blackface. While being unacceptable today, I don't think that the blackface performance should negate its historical and artistic value.
we'd have to agree to disagree that it serves any artistic value.
human5892 said:
I am with this. 100%. I was just against the whole "well it happened so **** it" type of thinking.
Herge felt terrible about it too. I was a big fan of Tintin back in the days,
As a kid, I never thought the congo locals talked were funny; it was just a crude french that they spoke with tourists that they are learned on the spot here and there by talking with them over the years.
I picked up a reprint of the original super oldschool printing version of Tintin in Congo about a decade ago, the drawings were incredibly crude and primitive, and I found out that some of the lines that they were in the original were lated edited in the version that are on the shelves.
I remember vaguely the part where Tintin gets capture or attacked during the night (it's pretty vague in my mind) and that his guide, the little black boy had ran away during the attack. In the morning the kid shows up asking if Tintin is okay and Tintin says something like 'there you are, you cowardly little negro!" or something along that.
I remember being "wtf". I'm pretty 99% sure that they are refering to the reprint of the old version (the one that was published as weekly strips in a newspaper back in the '30). The version with that cover that was linked to is the 'newer' edition that had all the drawings redone and all those 'you dumb negro!" comments taken out.
I don't really agree with you, Blackace; Herge felt horrible about the Congo adventures, you had to remember that in those times, racisms was at an all time high, especially in Europe, where if you werent white, you were trash. The world has completly changed since, hell, I think that the mindsets of people has more involved in the last 20 years than in entire story of humanity;
But Herge's Congo book was a product of its time. The man felt really sorry about it when he met an asian fan who told him about the racist overtones of the original movies. They became the best of friends, the guy became the inspiration for Yang, Tintin's reccuring friend that appeared in some of the best books, and he also helped Herge a lot about cultural differences and how to represent them in the books by helping him doing the researches for the next adventures.
Tintin was never about racism, Tintin was about crazy adventures in cool places and meeting new cultures. Not many of the books actually happened in France, it was always about visiting South America, slaving countries, China, Tibet. Tintin would always make local friends in each adventure, and they would refer to them in other books too from times to times.
The first original print of Tintin was a bit weird, but it's a product of its time; and the creator was really appologic later on.
As a kid, I never thought the congo locals talked were funny; it was just a crude french that they spoke with tourists that they are learned on the spot here and there by talking with them over the years.
I picked up a reprint of the original super oldschool printing version of Tintin in Congo about a decade ago, the drawings were incredibly crude and primitive, and I found out that some of the lines that they were in the original were lated edited in the version that are on the shelves.
I remember vaguely the part where Tintin gets capture or attacked during the night (it's pretty vague in my mind) and that his guide, the little black boy had ran away during the attack. In the morning the kid shows up asking if Tintin is okay and Tintin says something like 'there you are, you cowardly little negro!" or something along that.
I remember being "wtf". I'm pretty 99% sure that they are refering to the reprint of the old version (the one that was published as weekly strips in a newspaper back in the '30). The version with that cover that was linked to is the 'newer' edition that had all the drawings redone and all those 'you dumb negro!" comments taken out.
I don't really agree with you, Blackace; Herge felt horrible about the Congo adventures, you had to remember that in those times, racisms was at an all time high, especially in Europe, where if you werent white, you were trash. The world has completly changed since, hell, I think that the mindsets of people has more involved in the last 20 years than in entire story of humanity;
But Herge's Congo book was a product of its time. The man felt really sorry about it when he met an asian fan who told him about the racist overtones of the original movies. They became the best of friends, the guy became the inspiration for Yang, Tintin's reccuring friend that appeared in some of the best books, and he also helped Herge a lot about cultural differences and how to represent them in the books by helping him doing the researches for the next adventures.
Tintin was never about racism, Tintin was about crazy adventures in cool places and meeting new cultures. Not many of the books actually happened in France, it was always about visiting South America, slaving countries, China, Tibet. Tintin would always make local friends in each adventure, and they would refer to them in other books too from times to times.
The first original print of Tintin was a bit weird, but it's a product of its time; and the creator was really appologic later on.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
shuri said:
I never really said how he felt about his books. And I fully remember what time they were written, and am fully aware the the mindsets of people have changed since then. But again, the books have been edited once to reflect that change... and they don't need to be edited again, just no paraded in the kids section. They are a product of their time and not a teaching tool for today's kid.. just like blackface, just like bugs doing a chinese dance with slanted eyes and buckteeth..
Keep in mind I love Tin Tin.. but I can say I felt odd reading them at some points when I was a kid. Now more than ever race is out there. When I was a kid it wasn't really in the open like it is now.
Stoney Mason
Banned
I actually don't care about this and I'm pretty much am always free speech but all the people who proclaim "We can't rewrite history!" do make me laugh to a degree since we are re-writing the present currently all the time with censorsed song lyrics that stores won't sell, censored album covers that stores won't sell, edited movies that show on network TV, or simply NC-17 movies that theatres won't show.
marvelharvey
Member
On the same day as...
The Jazz Singer was used as a push for jazz (and by proxy, black culture) onto the mass cultural stage, and the racist limitations in the film industry prevented anyone but a white person in blackface from doing it. The artistic value of the film through its impact on mass culture is tremendous.Blackace said:
Tintin in Thailand...
:lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_Thailand
I have a copy of it. Bought it off eBay for $5. Great stuff.
:lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_Thailand
I have a copy of it. Bought it off eBay for $5. Great stuff.
Stealth Editor
Member
Yeah the indians are there and they capture Tintin much like on the cover. I really remember why they do it though.Kabouter said:
He escape by throwing tiny rocks on the face of one indian who then get pissed off at the chief. A big fight starts between the two and the next thing you know the entier village is fighting for no reason giving Tintin just enough time to escape.
Barbacoatl
Banned
Arrrrgggggghh! not even Tintin is safe from the Al Sharptons of the world! *^&*%^*#@!EffUEffU@@!!!%^*
Jerry Whorebach
Banned
Thank you for purchasing RoboHo! For optimal performance, please ensure your negrobot has an uninterrupted supply of malt liquor and welfare checks. WARNING: Do not expose your negrobot to snow, deep water, or ghosts. It is not recommended to let your negrobot sit-in for you when taking standardized tests.
Reverend Al Sharpton says, "Hey kids, don't forget! It is your DUTY to please that BOOTY!"
Reverend Al Sharpton says, "Hey kids, don't forget! It is your DUTY to please that BOOTY!"
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
UltraMarioMan
Member
:lolMrToughPants said:
NekoFever
Member
And what a surprise, this relatively obscure book is currently 9th in the Amazon UK chart.
Personally I think moving this book to the adult section is absolutely the right thing to do. Is it suitable for children? Probably not. Should it be banned? Absolutely not. The banning of books is a far more dangerous thing to start doing than reading old books that present old attitudes in an appropriate context. Someone's already mentioned Mein Kampf which you could walk into any store and buy, although admittedly that's not the case in a lot of countries. You can probably guess most of them without clicking that link.
I can't really add to the praise for Disney bringing out their old cartoons when they still won't release Song of the South on DVD, though.
Personally I think moving this book to the adult section is absolutely the right thing to do. Is it suitable for children? Probably not. Should it be banned? Absolutely not. The banning of books is a far more dangerous thing to start doing than reading old books that present old attitudes in an appropriate context. Someone's already mentioned Mein Kampf which you could walk into any store and buy, although admittedly that's not the case in a lot of countries. You can probably guess most of them without clicking that link.
I can't really add to the praise for Disney bringing out their old cartoons when they still won't release Song of the South on DVD, though.
Patrick Bateman
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Tintin#Criticisms_of_the_series
The Shooting Star album originally had an American villain with the Jewish surname of Mr. Blumenstein. This proved to be controversial, as the character looked very stereotypically Jewish. Blumenstein was changed to an American with a less ethnically specific name, Mr. Bohlwinkel, in later editions and subsequently to a South American of a fictional country - São Rico. Hergé later discovered that 'Bohlwinkel' was also a Jewish name.[23]
Oh boy. Stereotypes everywhere. *starts burning tintin comics*
The Shooting Star album originally had an American villain with the Jewish surname of Mr. Blumenstein. This proved to be controversial, as the character looked very stereotypically Jewish. Blumenstein was changed to an American with a less ethnically specific name, Mr. Bohlwinkel, in later editions and subsequently to a South American of a fictional country - São Rico. Hergé later discovered that 'Bohlwinkel' was also a Jewish name.[23]
Oh boy. Stereotypes everywhere. *starts burning tintin comics*
Peacemaker
Banned
Glad to see the Commission for Racial Equality focusing on the real matters, like the B.N.P having a bloody fair in my village to spread their bullshit. Granted everybody pretty much votes the B.N.P where I'm from but still.
Some book most people have never heard of is now suddenly popular.
It's like telling terrorists not to make bombs.
If people want to buy it then let them buy it, but hell don't promote it.
Hell I'm tempted to buy it now.
Some book most people have never heard of is now suddenly popular.
It's like telling terrorists not to make bombs.
If people want to buy it then let them buy it, but hell don't promote it.
Hell I'm tempted to buy it now.
cicero
Member
Only acknowledging, only educating, not no perpetuating. How in the world can you possibly do this without removing it from the general public? If it is available for sale or to read, then it is being perpetuated in some way. And what exactly is the standard that should be applied to what should or shouldn't be perpetuated? If it offends any segment or specific group within society?Blackace said:
Indeed, it was a huge commercial success as the first feature-length motion picture with synchronized dialogue sequences (talkie) and it signaled the end to the silent film era.No6 said:
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