Full article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...34435744.html?mod=WSJ_auto_IndustryCollection
Definitely sucks for Toyota.
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Dept. of Trans. finds nearly all of the "Toyota accident" were driver error.
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Full article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...34435744.html?mod=WSJ_auto_IndustryCollection
Definitely sucks for Toyota.
spiderman123
Member
well the damage is already done...... Used toyota to boost shitty GM
JGS said:
The quality they actually had, and the quality procedures used, probably exceed those of most of their rivals. Essentially they were forced to claim mea culpa for being better than the other companies getting away with far more dangerous vehicles, simply because they came under a spotlight - a spotlight none of our domestic makers could survive.
zoku88 said:
This perspective ignores relative comparisons and acts as if Toyota is the sole car maker on earth,
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
zoku88 said:
Well, actually, it kind of does.
spiderman123
Member
zoku88 said:
But Ford had the similar situation a couple of years ago but look how little attention in received by the American Media. The main point I think the OP is aiming for is how biased the situation became.
Edit: as well as a couple of months ago I think they recalled 56ooo cars
I have no experience with what it takes to "analyze" the diagnostic equipment on Toyota vehicles. This appears to be a very simple task, assuming the data is recorded in a manner that allows a timestamp to be applied to each interaction: simply determine what state the brake and accelerator were in during the moments leading up to deployment of the airbags or other distress signals. But again, I don't know what it takes.
Which leads to this: If I were Toyota, or my company was partnered with Toyota, I would be very interested in the government's explanation of why, exactly, it took so long to release the results of this analysis.
Which leads to this: If I were Toyota, or my company was partnered with Toyota, I would be very interested in the government's explanation of why, exactly, it took so long to release the results of this analysis.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Uh, what? Sure it does.zoku88 said:
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I have a feeling Toyota will be ok.
Well, I guess it does. Obviously one is worse than the other, but they're both really really bad. Car manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to be negligent.Stumpokapow said:
He probably should have said "the other cases weren't reported enough" rather than sending the message "toyota was reported too much."spiderman123 said:
Interfectum
Gold Member
Media manipulation at it's finest.
Sucks for Toyota. :\
Sucks for Toyota. :\
speculawyer
Member
People always want someone else to blame . . . this was a chance at that for many idiots that crashed their cars. :lol
badcrumble
Member
A lot of the hubbub around this made me suspect that the US government was partly colluding in order to help our own ailing car industry. While I support that overall project, I don't support tearing down other (and possibly better) manufacturers in order to accomplish that.
zoku88 said:
The only questions are:
How safe are Toyota vehicles in comparison with outher vehicles?
Is Toyota taking reasonable and diligent steps to ensure the saftey of its vehicles?
Otherwise you're asking for perfection, which is ludicrous. this isn't like Chevy bean-counters calculating that insurance settlements for deaths are cheaper than bits of steel on a Corvair.
Relative danger is irrelevant. The absolute danger. This danger came from negligence. The Ford dangers, whatever they were, were probably also from negligence. Any potential danger coming from negligence needs to be dealt with harshly.OuterWorldVoice said:
If those flawed Toyota models were the safest vehicles on Earth, then every other car manufacturer should also go through congress hearing and whatnot.
No, it isn't. The diagnostic data about the position of the brake pedal is the same whether the accelerator position is caused by floor mats, sticky accelerator pedals, electronics, or user error. That's the damning part of this report: people reported they tried to stop their vehicles but couldn't, and the vehicle diagnostics (and presumably wear and tear on the brake pads) indicate they didn't hit the brakes.gcubed said:
It's not.Kittonwy said:
In addition, this is a leak of a study sourced anonymously, a study that hasn't even been completed, certified or publicly released by the NHTSA. And the only possible area it would vindicate Toyota is in the realm of electronic control systems, which is a separate issue from the still very dangerous allegations of sticky acceleration pedals.
Read the article guys. It's Fox News caliber smoke and mirrors.
Evlar said:
you didnt, but i thought the initial toyota crap was the braking problems, not the sudden acceleration.
edit... my fault, the shim was on the gas pedal, not the brakes... but that still isnt sudden acceleration, that is failing to stop, or the friction in the gas allowed the gas pedal to stay "engaged" for a period of time when pressure was removed. Still dont think it has anything to do with this article at all
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Pretty sure it was people suddenly accelerating when applying the brakes.gcubed said:
Lucky Forward
Member
thesoapster
Member
Most drivers cannot drive. You don't say.
so yes, this article does nothing to warrant a "poor Toyota" response. The big shitstorm was around the sticky accelerator pedals, which the article CLEARLY states...
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wh...awed-cts-gas-pedal-with-superior-denso-pedal/
There is a breakdown of the pedals, the fix and the problem. It was even posted on GAF when it came out.
GAF made me think my memory was going
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wh...awed-cts-gas-pedal-with-superior-denso-pedal/
There is a breakdown of the pedals, the fix and the problem. It was even posted on GAF when it came out.
GAF made me think my memory was going
OuterWorldVoice said:
I agree with their quality which is why I still buy Toyotas & Hondas. However, the mea culpa was legitimate. I have floor mat problems when I buy them aftermarket. I should not have one at all from the manufacturer, especially since they costs so much.
My main point was that they caused the problem by acting dodgy. They should not have shrugged off the complaints and should have handled them or at least addressed them in a better manner.
They did the same thing when there was sludge developing in vehicles whose oil wasn't being changed every 3,000 miles even though the manual didn't say it needed to be.
Vipershark
Member
Wait, it's saying that the accelerators were floored, right?
Yet the whole problem was because of gas pedals getting stuck.
I fail to see how this says anything about it being driver error, considering the pedals were still sticking.
If anything, it's still Toyota's fault.
Yet the whole problem was because of gas pedals getting stuck.
I fail to see how this says anything about it being driver error, considering the pedals were still sticking.
If anything, it's still Toyota's fault.
Lagspike_exe
Member
I bet that US car makers seriously pushed for Toyota to get bad press via lobbying and what not. And I bet that they killed much more people by making shitty cars over the last 100 years than Toyota did with this mistake.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Americans are still idiots for not knowing something as simple as throwing the car into neutral and allowing it to coast to a stop. It's criminal how poor drivers education is here in this country.
Lagspike_exe
Member
HomShaBom said:
No, they would do the same. The point of my post was that this problem was vastly exaggerated.
It was obvious from the reports around the time that it was a bunch of idiot drivers (as well as faulty shit).
A few articles had stories from people that it had happened to, and they were throwing out claims that from the time you noticed the problem to the time you could shut off the engine (the push button ones, with the 5 second hold to kill the engine), you'd be at 80 MPH.
I did the math (and posted it in the thread), and they were assuming (and drivers were claiming) that they accelerated to 65 by flooring it, that the accelerator got stuck when they hit 65, and got stuck in the floored position.
Seems to me people shouldn't drive like that, faulty accelerator, faulty electronics, faulty floor mat, or not.
Yet the articles and incidents at the time confirm that that's how those people drive.
The accelerator is either on or off for them.
A few articles had stories from people that it had happened to, and they were throwing out claims that from the time you noticed the problem to the time you could shut off the engine (the push button ones, with the 5 second hold to kill the engine), you'd be at 80 MPH.
I did the math (and posted it in the thread), and they were assuming (and drivers were claiming) that they accelerated to 65 by flooring it, that the accelerator got stuck when they hit 65, and got stuck in the floored position.
Seems to me people shouldn't drive like that, faulty accelerator, faulty electronics, faulty floor mat, or not.
Yet the articles and incidents at the time confirm that that's how those people drive.
The accelerator is either on or off for them.
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