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'The Rise and Fall of Virtual Reality' Verge article
- Thread starter Kreunt
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civilstrife
Member
You missed a Rise.
This. Changed the article completely.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
What happens next month?
Samsung will unveil and release Gear VR along with Gear VR compatible phones (the flagship being the Note 4).
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
If anything Samsung will poison the well.
I just copied what was posted elsewhere, should've proof read better, my bad.
Trojan
Member
My bad on the typo. I posted some quotes from the article if it's worth putting in the OP. Thanks for the assist on the thread.
Haint
Member
As someone who has never once experienced any kind of motion sickness in my life, including boats, thrill rides, back seat rides on winding roads, or FPS's 4 feet from a 60" display in the dark, I can confirm that both DK1 and DK2 induce a profound and long lasting multi-hour sickness. The idea that Samsung are somehow going to get it right by rushing out cellphone based hardware to be first to market is a long shot (and that's putting it nicely). Now there is the possibility that the key Oculus are missing is something simple (like physical IPD slider for example), but it's much more likely what Samsung are going to do is ruin VR for everyone with a rushed product that the mainstream absolutely shits on.
civilstrife
Member
Yup, seriously. Oculus, Sony and Valve are the only people I currently have any faith in bringing this to market in the right way.
Granted, Samsung is likely only going for movie/media viewing as their first application of the tech, which is a stationary experience.
I also experienced terrible VR sickness from the DK1 when I tried it. The Tuscany demo just killed me. And as with you, the sickness lasted hours after I took it off. But the problem was the lack of positional tracking and the horrendous effect of moving with a controller.
I don't envision Samsung's "movie theatre experience" will involve any movement of your character in the theatre, though the lack of positional tracking will still be a problem.
Rise and fall and rise really DID sound appropriate for this.
But before I read the article I do wonder if it's kind of like 3D in that it comes and goes, but gets a more solid foothold each time (3D seems to be more a thing theaters want to push at people now rather than genuinely exciting, but it's not a huge problem to host both 2D and 3D, and many TVs have 3D just because it's a non-issue to include.) I can issues hitting this too and causing another fall, but this time it may remain a relevant option especially for video games rather than "huh, someone put a 3D headset out again."
My sister got motion sickness from Doom on a television.
Good thing is both my sister and you are the minority thus far.
SerTapTap
Member
What? Samsung Gear VR is just a holder for a smartphone that will almost certainly be running something like 1080p/60fps with an okay at best FOV. IF you're lucky it'll be low persistence. No way is it going to be on par with Oculus' CV1 unless it's a huge downgrade from current devkits.
VR can't go mainstream until there are compelling reasons to use it (see: Fire phone, Kinect 2, WiiU, etc etc etc).
Just because it will be released first, doesn't mean that those few who buy it will have a good experience and start a proverbial nuclear reaction of excitement that causes others to buy it as well.
Oculus and Sony are smart for waiting for the content to be ready before releasing it.
Also, the mere fact that people in an enthusiast forum had to ask "wait, what's coming in one month?" shows how much impact it will have at the start.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
What does Samsung even have in terms of content lined up?
krypt0nian
Banned
Almost a zero percentage of this happening. It's going to be low end and will hurt VR more than help it.
I didn't say it was going to be on par with CV1. I said it'll be on par with the rift. It'll be a 1080p low persistence screen at 75 hz.
There are a number of unannounced software that you don't know about right now.
A lot from movie studios, and also an oculus rift cross-compatibility app.
Expect it to be essentially DK2.
OK, but of course I nor anyone else who isn't in the industry can't make predictions on things we don't know about. We have to go off of evidence that we do have. Currently, there's no content for it; as soon as that changes, my prediction may as well.
Haint
Member
Everyone would be shocked if the Note 4's not 1440p, and such a display seems a sure bet for CV1.
HideyoshiJP
Member
Interesting read. Maybe it's time to trade up to one of them Oculus things I've been hearing about.
Callibretto
Member
I've tried one of those binaural recording on normal headphone and it was mindblowing, and I don't even need expensive headphone, it'd be really awesome if that become the standard for all VR content.
Interesting read. Maybe it's time to trade up to one of them Oculus things I've been hearing about.
"It's like I'm really reading a book!"
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Man, it would really suck if I'm susceptible to VR sickness. All this waiting for nothing. The only game that has ever given me motion sickness was STALKER with its crazy ass head bob.
Haint
Member
I think if you've ever been turned up by a regular monitor, you've got no chance with DK2 class VR, but hopefully they've still got a lot of improvements to go. Personally, I don't even experience any discomfort playing FPS's in Sony's HMZ HMD (which are admittedly easy mode, approximating 40 degree FOV from a distance), but the Rifts tear me up. I can't even describe or immediately identify it cause it's a completely foreign experience for me. I actually used my DK1 off and on for like 2 weeks before I made the connection that the weird feelings were coming after playing it (it's not sudden and immediate, it's a fairly gradual and delayed uneasiness)
Trojan
Member
I've heard that many times recently. Horror games will have huge followings in VR, even though I think developers will dial it down a little since the immersion can make even the slightest jump scares so intense.
im more interested in VR that covers my full peripheral. I dont want to see edges of a face mounted display. But i dont know if that would ever be possible. My knowledge in optics is non existant.
Im wondering if something like Contact Lens Displays can be possible. Could your eye even focus on a display located on a contact lens? how do your eyes focus on displays in VR headsets? (i tried holding my phone directly in front of my face and have to hold it at least an inch or two in order for my eye to even focus, how does VR handle that?)
Im wondering if something like Contact Lens Displays can be possible. Could your eye even focus on a display located on a contact lens? how do your eyes focus on displays in VR headsets? (i tried holding my phone directly in front of my face and have to hold it at least an inch or two in order for my eye to even focus, how does VR handle that?)
The game isn't designed for VR. Valve has said doing traditional shooters will be hard and require some innovation. Motion sickness being the chief problem.
Yet oddly enough, I wasn't sold on VR until I saw this video of the HL2 VR gun range. Take that, add a ton of huge players with content to follow, and you've got the next big medium.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Basing a new product on a feature not everyone is physically able to enjoy might diminish that feature's system moving ability... See Nintendo 3DS and the S3D feature.
Razer Hydra is clear proof that Sony screwed up by not introducing analog sticks on Move controllers with lame excuses. Dayum. Luckily, you can add those with extra peripherals attached on the move, but the system lacking it by default really limited its possibilities.
You really expect display strobing support in the phones? And what about fast positional tracking?
I can understand the appeal and i hate to be the one ruining the fun, but VR, in its present state, will only manage to be a short term fad and nothing else.
The hardware is cumbersome and is known to disorient users and it's gonna get old soon.
Until we get to the point where we can effectively achieve holographic projection of high IQ and lag-free, don't expect VR to be widely accepted, just like 3DTV. When we achieve holographic projection it will replace the TV, just like that.
Guy in the interview suggests that VR could get you to a friend's wedding by placing a VR camera there. Such a sweet thought, but you still wont be there, neither for you or your friend. What is needed is a two-way holo-projector, so you could bring the wedding in real time, lag free and in crisp IQ, in your living room while at the same time you could project yoursef to the wedding, or business meeting or whatever.
Isolating yourself with a cumbersome headgear in your head and a stick on your hand won't bring the technological revolution.
The hardware is cumbersome and is known to disorient users and it's gonna get old soon.
Until we get to the point where we can effectively achieve holographic projection of high IQ and lag-free, don't expect VR to be widely accepted, just like 3DTV. When we achieve holographic projection it will replace the TV, just like that.
Guy in the interview suggests that VR could get you to a friend's wedding by placing a VR camera there. Such a sweet thought, but you still wont be there, neither for you or your friend. What is needed is a two-way holo-projector, so you could bring the wedding in real time, lag free and in crisp IQ, in your living room while at the same time you could project yoursef to the wedding, or business meeting or whatever.
Isolating yourself with a cumbersome headgear in your head and a stick on your hand won't bring the technological revolution.
I don't see any particular reason why Samsung couldn't support low persistence on new phones.
I have no idea how they're handling tracking though.
Orniletter
Banned
In theory, positional tracking could be achieved via the cellphone's camera(s). In practice, it would require more computation and more complex object recognition.
Best case scenario: it would be much laggier than having markings on the headset itself and an external camera tracking those instead.
Worst case scenario: it will be horrible.
Display strobing is much easier and a definite possibility if Samsung allows the Note4 to also function as an external VR screen driven by a powerful PC. I can't think of any engineering reason NOT to do it, quite frankly. Samsung has lots of laptops it could push alongside as part of the complete "VR experience".
too "uncannyvalley" of an experience for me.
It seems there was a huge leap forward for headmounted displays with the designs using highres screens with militarygrade sensors that went public around 2010 (anyone remember trying vita at release? the motion sensors felt like space tech).
It is just a proof of concept for now and to be consumer ready it will need well designed games that work within the limits.
I don`t think anyone will buy this thing to play Half Life 2 with a Hydra that they have to recalibrate every 5 minutes and suffer poor aim for the sake of 30 minutes of experimental gameplay.
the games and controls have to be good enough for people to show off and compete with.
P.T. was a good example of a brand new game blowing up on social platforms (thanks to the stupidly simple sharing options on ps4..amazing stuff) - even if it was a traditional control/display game.
It seems there was a huge leap forward for headmounted displays with the designs using highres screens with militarygrade sensors that went public around 2010 (anyone remember trying vita at release? the motion sensors felt like space tech).
It is just a proof of concept for now and to be consumer ready it will need well designed games that work within the limits.
I don`t think anyone will buy this thing to play Half Life 2 with a Hydra that they have to recalibrate every 5 minutes and suffer poor aim for the sake of 30 minutes of experimental gameplay.
the games and controls have to be good enough for people to show off and compete with.
P.T. was a good example of a brand new game blowing up on social platforms (thanks to the stupidly simple sharing options on ps4..amazing stuff) - even if it was a traditional control/display game.
Fallout-NL
Member
That would traumatize me, no joke. I can't imagine doing that in VR. That 'look behind you' shit? I mean, damn... it would just be too much. It would probably kill people.
/edit: however, that does illustrate that VR indeed is the next step for videogames. The sense of presence is unparalleled and what was missing from videogames prior to decent VR solutions. If they manage to work out the nausea issues and streamline the experience, I can't imagine it not taking off in a pretty big way.
I can see why the Second Life guy came with that because it's basically Second Life 2. I went to conferences in Second Life when that was hip (though I think it was only ever hip in the scientific community, long after the public discarded it), and it's definitely cute for a one time thing, but not a replacement in any way, shape or form.
cm osi
Member
i don't know about sony, being locked on the ps4 could be a big limitation in what you can do with the morpheus
This is the stuff that has me most interested in why FB were so interested in OR
The Go Pro has already started to lead on these ideas travelling to places and seeing things from a crazy POV. Can you imagine that kind of stuff with an action film for instance would be a crazy experience. I can already see films that could basically be re-released as OR experiences.
The Go Pro has already started to lead on these ideas travelling to places and seeing things from a crazy POV. Can you imagine that kind of stuff with an action film for instance would be a crazy experience. I can already see films that could basically be re-released as OR experiences.
TylerDurden4321
Member
You could make an app, that simulates a theatre audience and watch the 3D movie not as a VR-movie, but as a 3D movie in a VR theatre, you could even have the audience's reactions pre-recorded at the right moments like a better laugh-track. You could also have friends join you from around the world like they're sitting next to you. I don't see this as a "killer"-app that drives ANY sales though. Idea is fun anyway.
I don't think anybody in the know thinks it will take off immediately at all.
Its going to start out as enthusiast hardware. Non-gaming applications wont necessarily all need powerhouse PC's, but for high-end gaming purposes, we need the power required to become more affordable.
Most of all, we simply need to have content. And that doesn't just magically happen. Takes time to develop the content and more importantly, it'll take time to convince content creators that VR is viable and impactful in order for them to take the plunge as well. A lot is happening at the moment, but without at least a good handful of proper quality applications that appeal to traditional gamers and more casual gamers, it might take a while for steam to really pick up.
But I have very little doubt that steam will pick up. At the very least, VR isn't going anywhere. Even if it never catches on in the mainstream, it is not going to fall away from the public eye completely. Flight sims, racing sims and space sims all utilize VR to such extraordinary effect already that there will always be a market for it, the same as there's a market for flight sticks and racing wheels. This is honestly worst-case scenario at this point for VR.
But it is most certainly here to stay, regardless of what happens. Best case scenario is that its somewhat affordable nature, the viable tech and the greater 'acceptance' of gaming nowadays leads to genuine mainstream interest fairly quickly. A couple killer apps within the next year or two make it something that people really want to own, the headsets sell well and it signals a big rush of people and companies eager to jump on the bandwagon and create VR applications, games and experiences. I don't think this is completely unrealistic at all. I don't think it will happen that quickly, but it definitely could. Its very hard to reliably predict consumer trends, especially when there's a lot of stuff in the works that we're unaware of.
Its exciting times.
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