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Tales of Xillia 2 SPOILER thread || Click at your own risk

Stuart444

Member
Some people in the OT were getting annoyed with the amount of spoiler tagged text being posted in the thread due to accidentally clicking on it on a touchscreen device or accidentally highlighting some spoiler text.

So I figured I'd make this thread for people to discuss whatever spoilers they want. Ending discussions, character deaths, etc.
 

Verder

Member
Ludger just gets fucked over in everything. No love at alllll.

Normal ending? Wife and kid dies later
True ending? He dies

Homeboy Julius just dies regardless
Man I wanted a happy ending
 
Ludger just gets fucked over in everything. No love at alllll.

Normal ending? Wife and kid dies later
True ending? He dies

Homeboy Julius just dies regardless
Man I wanted a happy ending
How does his wife and kid die in the good ending? Is it a result of the alternate dimensions.
 

ohlawd

Member
I was really bothered by this whole fractured dimension crap.

no matter which ending you get, people living in those dimensions lost their lives. I don't care if they weren't supposed to exist. You know that saying that goes like something "a fake is nothing to the genuine article?"

that's a load.

totally sad shit. Julius got screwed, billions of others got screwed. man, the three primordial spirits are all fucking asshats. they're the villains in this story.
 

Xenoflare

Member
I was really bothered by this whole fractured dimension crap.

no matter which ending you get, people living in those dimensions lost their lives. I don't care if they weren't supposed to exist. You know that saying that goes like something "a fake is nothing to the genuine article?"

that's a load.

totally sad shit. Julius got screwed, billions of others got screwed. man, the three primordial spirits are all fucking asshats. they're the villains in this story.

Yeah, which is why I decided to leave Elle dead. HAR HAR.

Bisley stabbing Chronos was extremely satisfying.
 
How does his wife and kid die in the good ending? Is it a result of the alternate dimensions.

The game seems the imply that in the Ludger ending he might end up becoming Victor. Though I'm not sure how much sense that makes when Victor's motivation was to move Elle and him to the prime dimension.

I was really bothered by this whole fractured dimension crap.

no matter which ending you get, people living in those dimensions lost their lives. I don't care if they weren't supposed to exist. You know that saying that goes like something "a fake is nothing to the genuine article?"

that's a load.

totally sad shit. Julius got screwed, billions of others got screwed. man, the three primordial spirits are all fucking asshats. they're the villains in this story.
That whole aspect being glossed over was never convincing.
 

Bladenic

Member
A much more satisfying ending would've been kicking Origin's ass which thus resets the events of the game.. Or something. Idk
 
Oh also. How was Biley able to build a soul bridge with the red guy when I thought only Kresniks were able to?

I believe that there was some implication that Rideaux was related to the Kresniks.


What I want to know, is in the true ending, why does Ludger becoming a catalyst save Elle? Is it because once there are a million, there can be no more?
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
So.....are Jude and Milla like...in love, or something in this game? In the original game, they only vaguely implied some closeness, and i can't really tell playing the second one, even when real milla shows up
 

Bladenic

Member
So.....are Jude and Milla like...in love, or something in this game? In the original game, they only vaguely implied some closeness, and i can't really tell playing the second one, even when real milla shows up

They are, but he still doesn't get to tap it. Poor Jude

Also anyoe else extremely disappointed that you don't get to kill Rideaux? That fucker deserved to die at Ludger's hands. His death was offscreen too, how disappointing.
 
So.....are Jude and Milla like...in love, or something in this game? In the original game, they only vaguely implied some closeness, and i can't really tell playing the second one, even when real milla shows up

The heavy parallels drawn between Milla/Jude and the relationships Celsius and Maxwell have with their human lovers certainly leave the strong impression that Jude at least is in love with her.
 

galvenize

Member
So.....are Jude and Milla like...in love, or something in this game? In the original game, they only vaguely implied some closeness, and i can't really tell playing the second one, even when real milla shows up

Yeah they got the hots for each other. Jude being depressed in the first game is proof enough. The bonus chapter in Xillia 2 sealed the deal, kinda.

I believe that there was some implication that Rideaux was related to the Kresniks.

What I want to know, is in the true ending, why does Ludger becoming a catalyst save Elle? Is it because once there are a million, there can be no more?

When catalysts/divergetn worlds reach a million, all those who are in the process of being a catalyst are cured. Ludger became a catalyst -> the count reached 1M -> Elle got cured -> they wished for the destruction of all divergent worlds -> Prime world saved.
 

Verder

Member
I thought the fractured dimensions are already gone at that point?


Oh yeah in the good ending they did disappear.

Honestly they used the whole fractured crap to not be completely obvious they want to re use assets. The dimension with Odin was nice though. Still a great game
 

Falk

that puzzling face
The game seems the imply that in the Ludger ending he might end up becoming Victor. Though I'm not sure how much sense that makes when Victor's motivation was to move Elle and him to the prime dimension.


That whole aspect being glossed over was never convincing.

How so? I'm assuming that the fracture that game-Elle came from split off during the event where Ludger massacres the cast at his house and becomes a divergence catalyst, 2 years into the future. I don't think the event itself/reasons/etc are touched in much detail but in the normal end Ludger seems pretty kosher with everyone.

Edit: Come to think of it, logically speaking if there are multiple alternate realities but only one Land of Canaan, it's probably safe to assume that for whatever reason, that fracture in its entirety (meaning Julius, Ludger, Bisley etc.) failed to approach Origin, possibly because they never had Elle as the Key to recover the Waymarkers. Meaning LudgerVictor's intent/disposition was already going to be fundamentally different.
 
asked tihs in the other thread, gonna ask here too.

the epilogue scene of the true ending, how many years is that post game?
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
He turns into victor and the cycle continues?
I wasn't too sure on that part. Wish they went more into detail.

I feel like if anything leads to him being Victor it was the bad ending where you refuse to kill Julius and fight the whole party.

In the end, I like the good ending the best, more than the true one because...why would Ludger sacrifice himself? You spend the entire game murdering soooooo many people by destroying the dimensions, and even if Elle is a special case, she is still a fake like the alternate Milla was. It seems weird to sacrifice yourself to save one single person while so many of those others just got straight up killed. The good ending atleast lets Ludger marry, have the real Elle, and the rest of the party are there.

Still, fuck Chronos and the spirits in general for that.
 
asked tihs in the other thread, gonna ask here too.

the epilogue scene of the true ending, how many years is that post game?

I'm not sure but you could probably match up the dates shown on Elle's GHS with where ever in game they state what the current year is.

I feel like if anything leads to him being Victor it was the bad ending where you refuse to kill Julius and fight the whole party.

In the end, I like the good ending the best, more than the true one because...why would Ludger sacrifice himself? You spend the entire game murdering soooooo many people by destroying the dimensions, and even if Elle is a special case, she is still a fake like the alternate Milla was. It seems weird to sacrifice yourself to save one single person while so many of those others just got straight up killed. The good ending atleast lets Ludger marry, have the real Elle, and the rest of the party are there.

Still, fuck Chronos and the spirits in general for that.

You say that assuming the terms "real" and "fake" have any meaning. I think it's clear they meant to show that Elle was important to Ludger, not the "real" Elle, but the one that he personally developed familial bonds with. Her being from a fractured dimension doesn't change that.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I'm not sure but you could probably match up the dates shown on Elle's GHS with where ever in game they state what the current year is.



You say that assuming the terms "real" and "fake" have any meaning. I think it's clear they meant to show that Elle was important to Ludger, not the "real" Elle, but the one that he personally developed familial bonds with. Her being from a fractured dimension doesn't change that.

I get that Elle is still a person and important to him, but he still has the chance to make his own family and still see her in a sense, even if it's a different person.

I also wonder what happened with Spirius in the true ending since Bisley and Ludger both kick the bucket.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
I also wonder what happened with Spirius in the true ending since Bisley and Ludger both kick the bucket.

I think this was meant to be symbolic in the "All the Kresniks are dead, so there can never be any more fractured dimensions henceforth" way.

Except Elle is still alive. DUN DUN DUNNNN
 

Datschge

Member
Well, the tag line is "Are you prepared to destroy the world for the girl?" so it's only consequential that the "true" ending ends the game by the player taking himself out of the equation while saving the girl. =P
 

Finalow

Member
wot incoming

the main problem I had with the story is that a lot of stuff isn't explained well or explained at all. besides that, I didn't like the pacing, really slow and it takes a while before things get interesting.

I think that it was pretty obvious that Bisley is Ludger's father but did anyone (in-game) realize that or did they ask about that? Nope. did they even explain why, how and when? Nope. I was expecting Bisley to do that in the end, we barely know who he is. just "a CEO stronger than Chronos because of kresnisk powers, (did he even have a watch?)".
Ludger makes a path with the watch in the end to gain more power (wut?), not really explained how they work, who made them etc. also Ludger can't transform without Elle's power, how's that? He's the lame kresnik kid born without powers? Lol.
I'm sure that I had more questions that I can't remember now.

Julius needed more screentime, no idea what he was doing besides running away and trying to stop Ludger/Bisley. they also made him a character that knows what's going on from the start and doesn't tell you shit for no reason other than "it's too soon for the player to know that". you see Julius stopping Chronos 2 times and then forcing him into other dimensions in order to save you. after that he just comes back like nothing happened.

Rideaux and Ivar were involved in pretty dumb scenes and I don't think they made them fit very well into this game, Ivar could have been ok if he sticked to being a comic relief like in the first chapters.

divergence catalysts, if "you become one when you use too much chromatus/kresnik or whatever power" then how did everyone else that you fight in all the dimensions became a catalyst?

-

now about the main topic, Origin's trial. first they say that the trial was a game created by Origin, Chronos and Maxwell when they were the 3 great lord of the universe or whatever. then in the end, iirc, they say "Origin's trial is a spirit arte summoned by Origin and the first member of the kresnik family" (wot?) it's not really clear but my take on it was that Origin and the other boys there^ started somehow this trial to test humanity. the trial was to recover all those waymarkers hidden in the fractured dimensions (which were created by Chronos? Or Origin when the trial started?), whoever did that would have been able to make a wish in the land of canaan. the trial ends when 1 million divergence catalysts are created or when someone arrives in canaan and makes a wish.

what's the role of the soul purification thing in all of this? We know that Origin is doing that and he's suffering for it. Chronos after some time (2000 years?) gets mad and wants to destroy humanity, or rather, wants humanity to fail the trial. if Origin doesn't purify souls, humanity dies from the miasma for some reason. so let's say that Origin created humanity and he keeps them alive by purifying souls, the trial was made in order to see if humans were worth saving, I guess? At least it makes some sense if put like this.

meh, not a fan of what they did there. I'd like some help if I got something wrong or missed some info.

-

overall I enjoyed the story and the characters probably more than any tales of game I've played. the strong points are clearly the characters and their interactions. they managed to do a great job with Elle and Ludger, some chapters really delivered with some great scenes. (12-15) it would have been so much better if only Ludger had a personality and was an actual character. :,|
oh, the endings. I actually liked all 3 of them. even if the bad ending was very forced and the normal ending didn't get as much attention as the "true" ending I still think that they did a good job there. chatacters episodes too, I didn't like all of them but they were a nice touch.

Oh also. How was Biley able to build a soul bridge with the red guy when I thought only Kresniks were able to?
Rideaux is from the family. Ludger's uncle? We do know fucking know!

The game seems the imply that in the Ludger ending he might end up becoming Victor.
.
I don't see how he's going to do what Victor does, especially when the fractured dimensions are gone. nothing of that is implied in the ending.
 

Saphirax

Member
I think the chances of Ludger becoming Victor again are slim to none. Mostly because Ludger is in the prime dimension, and depending on the ending, all fractured worlds have been destroyed.

I've a different take on the bad ending though. Unless I've missed something, Bisely would still be in the Land of Canaan with Elle, waiting for her to become a divergent catalyst. I assume he wouldn't pass Origin's trial? Even if he did not, the count would reach one million either with Elle or Julius (although given how quickly Elle was turning into a catalyst and given that she's less resilient than Julius I'd say she'd be the one).

The result would be Julius (and Ludger) not turning into catalysts. However, since Origin's trial would not be passed, the miasma would soon destroy the humankind. I believe that's what the "This is the ultimate destination for two brothers.With so little time left, may they find peace." refers to.

The trophy description for the Normal ending is completely misleading on the other hand. Ludger would have no reason to turn into Victor seeing as there are no more fractured worlds.
 

Finalow

Member
I think the chances of Ludger becoming Victor again are slim to none. Mostly because Ludger is in the prime dimension, and depending on the ending, all fractured worlds have been destroyed.

I've a different take on the bad ending though. Unless I've missed something, Bisely would still be in the Land of Canaan with Elle, waiting for her to become a divergent catalyst. I assume he wouldn't pass Origin's trial? Even if he did not, the count would reach one million either with Elle or Julius (although given how quickly Elle was turning into a catalyst and given that she's less resilient than Julius I'd say she'd be the one).

The result would be Julius (and Ludger) not turning into catalysts. However, since Origin's trial would not be passed, the miasma would soon destroy the humankind. I believe that's what the "This is the ultimate destination for two brothers.With so little time left, may they find peace." refers to.

The trophy description for the Normal ending is completely misleading on the other hand. Ludger would have no reason to turn into Victor seeing as there are no more fractured worlds.
Bisley was going to pass the trial, why wouldn't he? You already see him taking care of Chronos, after that he could just go to Origin and make his wish. and yeah, Elle was going to save Julius or vice versa.

I liked Bisley's death scene. in the end he just wanted to save humans and get his revenge on the spirits. it'd have been nice if at some point the game explained how his wife died, could have been connected to his motives.
 

Saphirax

Member
Bisley was going to pass the trial, why wouldn't he? You already see him taking care of Chronos, after that he could just go to Origin and make his wish. and yeah, Elle was going to save Julius or vice versa.

I liked Bisley's death scene. in the end he just wanted to save humans and get his revenge on the spirits. it'd have been nice if at some point the game explained how his wife died, could have been connected to his motives.

I wasn't certain if he would've passed the trial since the 'gate' opened for Ludger and Elle.

Bisely had two wives. They were sisters which makes Julius and Ludger half-brothers. First one died when Bisely used her to power his chromatus battling Chronos I believe. Second wife, who was Ludger's mother, was killed by Julius when she mistook him for one of Bisely's lackeys.
 

Finalow

Member
I wasn't certain if he would've passed the trial since the 'gate' opened for Ludger and Elle.

Bisely had two wives. They were sisters which makes Julius and Ludger half-brothers. First one died when Bisely used her to power his chromatus battling Chronos I believe. Second wife, who was Ludger's mother, was killed by Julius when she mistook him for one of Bisely's lackeys.
wait, when did the game explain all of that about Bisley's wives? I totally missed it.

not sure what you mean by 'the gate' but as long as you reach Origin in the land of canaan you can make the wish. when you arrive there Bisley was still fighting Chronos, then Bisley fights you, dies, and Origin appears. basically Origin waits for the fight to be over and for the bad guy to die, lol. from how they explain it, regardless of who arrives there (alive), he's entitled to make the wish.
 

Verder

Member
They never went much in to detail about Ludgers father but didnt Riddeux mention how Ludger is oblivious or something like that to his own "father" which tends to be Bisley.

Wasnt it something like

Bisley real wife had julius and then died fighting chronos and then Bisley had a kid with like his maid? which turns out to be Ludgers mother.

Wish they went more into detail about this.
 

Finalow

Member
of course I'm assuming that "making a wish before the 1 million death sentence" and "passing the trial" are the same thing. if you intend passing the trial as proving that humanity is worth being saved or whateve they blabbed about in the ending, then yeah, Bisley wasn't probably going to make it.
still, as he said, "Origin is going to grant my wish regardless of what I ask", so he probably didn't care about the rest.
 

Finalow

Member
They never went much in to detail about Ludgers father but didnt Riddeux mention how Ludger is oblivious or something like that to his own "father" which tends to be Bisley.

Wasnt it something like

Bisley real wife had julius and then died fighting chronos and then Bisley had a kid with like his maid? which turns out to be Ludgers mother.

Wish they went more into detail about this.
that might be the motive I was looking for before. I don't remember Rideaux mentioning that but I do remember that he heavily implies that Bisley is Ludger's father.

you also understand that in chapter 12, Victor says 'I killed my brother and father for this power (after killing the whole Xillia 1 cast, of course. lol)' and someone later screams 'your father?!', so I thought that between the existing characters only one could have been his father.
 

Verder

Member
that might be the motive I was looking for before. I don't remember Rideaux mentioning that but I do remember that he heavily implies that Bisley is Ludger's father.

you also understand that in chapter 12, Victor says 'I killed my brother and father for this power (after killing the whole Xillia 1 cast, of course. lol)' and someone later screams 'your father?!', so I thought that between the existing characters only one could have been his father.

Yeah i remember Victor mentioning that in Chapter 12. He had the same Chromatus form as Bisley did in the final battle.
was Rideaux ever part of the kresnik family? He did have the chromatus form in some kind of way? He also was used as a soul bridge .
 

Saphirax

Member
of course I'm assuming that "making a wish before the 1 million death sentence" and "passing the trial" are the same thing. if you intend passing the trial as proving that humanity is worth being saved or whateve they blabbed about in the ending, then yeah, Bisley wasn't probably going to make it.
still, as he said, "Origin is going to grant my wish regardless of what I ask", so he probably didn't care about the rest.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about that part either - that's why I went with the 'worse' option.

One of the jobs in the game is from Vera asking you to bring two Princessa(?) flowers. She then explains about Bisely's wives. They really half-assed the whole thing - had to read the wiki and other stuff to get the whole picture.

It's stupid how Ludger is oblivious to the whole thing. I don't think he ever finds out Julius killed his mother (the shock of it made him lose his memories apparently...). It's the one thing that bothers me the most. More time should've been spent on Bisely and Julius.

Also, one more funny tidbit - even the creators of the game aren't sure how it ends according to some interview.

Yeah i remember Victor mentioning that in Chapter 12. He had the same Chromatus form as Bisley did in the final battle.
was Rideaux ever part of the kresnik family? He did have the chromatus form in some kind of way? He also was used as a soul bridge .

He was related to Kresniks to a lesser extent, yes. There are a lot of Kresniks in the world, but almost none of them have any special powers. Rideaux was apparently born with a pocket watch.
 

Saphirax

Member
I recall reading that. Wasn't it more of "We're leaving interpretation up to the players"?

Could be. I just read someone's comments on the interview and got the impression that even the writers were uncertain. Leaving it up for interpretation certainly sounds better.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Yeah, they could have handled a lot of the characters better. Even ones that get touched on are usually in side content when it really shouldn't be.

After beating the game I got a side mission that ended up unlocking Julius' room, and there was a letter about some of the stuff he did in the fractured dimensions. Eventually getting to the point where it was easier to just slaughter everyone in the town instead of looking for the catalyst, stuff like that show a lot more about his character that the main plot needed.
 

Saphirax

Member
Yeah, they could have handled a lot of the characters better. Even ones that get touched on are usually in side content when it really shouldn't be.

After beating the game I got a side mission that ended up unlocking Julius' room, and there was a letter about some of the stuff he did in the fractured dimensions. Eventually getting to the point where it was easier to just slaughter everyone in the town instead of looking for the catalyst, stuff like that show a lot more about his character that the main plot needed.

Yeah - a lot of it got glossed over. I was surprised that two sidequests revealed such cruical information. That should have been a part of the main storyline.

With so many reused assets they surely could've afforded to expand on the characters.
 

Finalow

Member
Yeah, I wasn't sure about that part either - that's why I went with the 'worse' option.

One of the jobs in the game is from Vera asking you to bring two Princessa(?) flowers. She then explains about Bisely's wives. They really half-assed the whole thing - had to read the wiki and other stuff to get the whole picture.

It's stupid how Ludger is oblivious to the whole thing. I don't think he ever finds out Julius killed his mother (the shock of it made him lose his memories apparently...). It's the one thing that bothers me the most. More time should've been spent on Bisely and Julius.

Also, one more funny tidbit - even the creators of the game aren't sure how it ends according to some interview.
I see.
I agree that they didn't handle those characters really well and that's what I also meant with that long post earlier. "leaving interpretation up to the players" is often an excuse for "we didn't bother/we didn't know how etc."
and again, putting all of that stuff about Julius and Bisley in random sidequests was pretty stupid, I guess that they had no idea how to put all of that info directly into some cutscenes from the main quest? *shrugs*
 

Jonnax

Member
I took it as Rollo overseeing the youngsters.

It looked like he was on his last legs, seemed irresponsible just to leave him :p

Also with how the when Ludger's watch got destroyed and Elle's watch came back into existence, did anyone else think that the human Milla might return after spirit Milla returned back to where she normally dwells?
 
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