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Emiko Iwasaki on Battle Fantasia and working in the Japanese gaming industry as woman

E

El Sloth

Banned
Siliconera: Origins Of Battle Fantasia And The Art Of Making A 2.5D Fighting Game

How did Battle Fantasia start out as a project?



Emiko Iwasaki, Director: At first, I was supposed to work on a new 2D fighting game based on a famous manga IP as a joint development project. But the project was stopped for business reasons.



Using my own motivation, I decided to make my own original 2D fighting game proposal and the CEO asked to change it to 3D so that we can improve company’s knowledge base for the future. And then, the proposal was officially approved from publisher.
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It’s also the first game from Arc System Works to use 3D characters in a 2D battle system, a style many fighting games even Guilty Gear Xrd uses today. That was a big shift from the 2D games you worked on, can you tell us about this too?



In those days, it was the turning point when 2D fighting games were trying to shift to 3D, but no one was able to make that marriage perfect. It was said that incorporating 3D in a 2D versus fighting game was impossible.



We were a team with zero 3D experience, it was difficult to assign to me men who have experience and who entered the company earlier and are older than me. There were gender role issues deeply rooted in Japan. It is considered a shame for a man to work under woman because many people think "men first, ladies second".



I only had 2D art experience, so I had to buy a 3D textbook to study and to find a way to make a 2.5D basic game format work with a main programmer and a newly-graduate junior artist I found. We treated 3D as just an art style to give expression to a 2D fighting game, and we combined it with 2D techniques from pixel art ages. I have experience as a pixel artist and I’m free from common 3D wisdom.



I discovered that the way we did this was very unorthodox, at least for most 3D graphic experts. Most experts focused too much on consistency and realism.



Some of the unique things we did:

1. Flip character for real-time rendering:
This was required to improve player’s experience. Normal 3D has different looks for Player 1 and Player 2’s side.

For example, Player 1 shows the front of the character while Player 2 shows the back of the character. I think that players of 2D fighting games memorize the poses and animation of the characters, and often, they focus on the frame details of the character’s movement. I felt that if the characters look different for Player 1 and 2, it would make gameplay stressful.


2. Unique mask system:
Usually when 3D models hit each other, the parts will intersect. The programmer made a unique mask system to make it have more of a 2D look.


3. Less motion interpolation:
Motion interpolation was a big benefit of 3D graphics, but I reduced it a lot to make brisk animations and game tempo.


4. Irrational movement in between animation frame, less recovery animation frame:
I prefer cool and irrational movement than natural “correct” ones. During the age of pixel, we usually don’t make animation frames for recovery to keep the data size small and development time short.


5. Change body parts size using animation frames, depending on the situation to give the characters a more 2D look.
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What brought you to Singapore and how is directing games here different from Arc System Works?

I was able to work in Arc System Works for a long time because the CEO, the Guilty Gear team and some passionate colleagues treat me as just a developer, not as a girl. But for most people, experienced women and my age are not welcome in the workplace. This is why I am interested to go to other countries, I’m looking for something fun.



What are some of the difficulties being a woman director in Japan?



For franchise or series IP projects, it isn’t so difficult, but it becomes extremely difficult when it comes to original projects started from scratch. In Japan, there is a thinking that the important work is meant for the men, while the women are responsible for smaller tasks. Original projects are regarded as important works because it is something developers aspire to do. Because I’m a woman director for an original project, a lot of people thought that I broke some taboos. This was not something that was acceptable to many people.



What do you think would make the working environment better in Japan for females who aspire to have leading roles like yourself?



Raising awareness is one way to help make the working environment better. In Japan, 95% of female developers retire within 5 years. We need to create an environment that would allow women to prove her worth via her skills and ability. Not only in the game industry, but everywhere else.



In Japan, most people assume that there are no gender issues in the working environments. In fact, it is hard to visualize such issues due to many factors and complex social structures. It also does not help that there are very few places for women to voice their real feelings safely. Many people say that "our work environments have no issues", but we can still see female workers crying in the ladies room, and then quit her job quietly.



A change in perception can also work. Having observed most men around me, I realized that there are 2 different types: The ones who treat me as a "girl" and the ones who treat me as a "developer".



The ones who treat me as a "girl"; they seem to think of women as accessories for men. They are focused on things like titles and social standings instead of making a great gaming product due to their supposed low esteem.



The ones who see me as a "developer" first would rather focus on creativity, research, studying new things and challenging themselves. They love game development. So I hope that more men would see women as developers, and not just as a "girl".
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Sorry if this was already posted. More at the link.
 
Deft Beck

Deft Beck

Member
Good insights into the Japanese gaming industry. I didn't know Battle Fantasia was created by a woman! I would like to try it out (the improved Steam version, perhaps)
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Cool of her to get this out in the open. I haven't read a lot about this from female developers. Can't say I'm surprised though.

I've heard that doujin games are a lot better about this, including hentai games. I know that most of the Rance games have had a female writer, for instance. I think she retired recently though.
 
C

Coffee Dog

Banned
Emiko Iwasaki said:
Raising awareness is one way to help make the working environment better. In Japan, 95% of female developers retire within 5 years. We need to create an environment that would allow women to prove her worth via her skills and ability. Not only in the game industry, but everywhere else.



In Japan, most people assume that there are no gender issues in the working environments. In fact, it is hard to visualize such issues due to many factors and complex social structures. It also does not help that there are very few places for women to voice their real feelings safely. Many people say that "our work environments have no issues", but we can still see female workers crying in the ladies room, and then quit her job quietly.
Click to expand...

Fuck, man. :(
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
In Japan, there is a thinking that the important work is meant for the men, while the women are responsible for smaller tasks. Original projects are regarded as important works because it is something developers aspire to do. Because I’m a woman director for an original project, a lot of people thought that I broke some taboos. This was not something that was acceptable to many people.
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disheartening
 
A

Alex_Mexico

Member
Atolm said:
It's disheartening because one of the things Japanese video games need the most is women's input.
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I agree completely. These issues get reflected on their work all the time. I know I'm beating a dead horse but look at Other M. That's a fine example that's gotta be connected to this if I ever saw one.

Well that coupled with bad writers, but still!
 
H

Hades Hotgun

Banned
TFRazorsaw said:
How the hell is going "It's fucking terrible everywhere" protecting anybody? I'm commenting on how lamentable the situation is across the board
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Because saying that it's terrible everywhere is a disingenuous means of establishing a false equivalence which inherently down plays the extent to which institutional sexism is impacting female participation in the Japanese gaming industry in particular, which relates to this article and why Iwasaki opted to leave Japan. Obviously her experience was that things were particularly bad in Japan.

Imagine if the interviewer responded to her insight by saying, well it's terrible everywhere.
 
J

Jotamide

Unconfirmed Member
Battle Fantasia was a flawed game but a good start. She should have been given another chance at ASW. Mori somehow turned a good FG designer with Persona 4 Arena, because in my opinion the first 2 BlazBlue games were mechanically bad: long combos, overly complicated systems (guard libras anyone?), etc. Wonder how things would have gone if Battle Fantasia had turned commercially successful. I wish her the best and hope she give us another fighting game soon.
 
T

The Yo Tornado

Member
I didn't like how Battle Fantasia played, but I thought it was super interesting. Has she done any major work since? I don't think Battle Fantasia did too well but I'd like to see her get another shot at heading a project.
 
T

TFRazorsaw

Banned
Hades Hotgun said:
Because saying that it's terrible everywhere is a disingenuous means of establishing a false equivalence which inherently down plays the extent to which institutional sexism is impacting female participation in the Japanese gaming industry in particular, which relates to this article and why Iwasaki opted to leave Japan. Obviously her experience was that things were particularly bad in Japan.

Imagine if the interviewer responded to her insight by saying, well it's terrible everywhere.
Click to expand...

that's not what I am trying to do at all. :/ I'm frustrated that this shit is so pervasive. Obviously there are different reasons and situations for it and they need to be addressed separately, but I think this is a common problem that comes from a social ill that is, at its core, universal.
 
H

Hades Hotgun

Banned
TFRazorsaw said:
How the hell is going "It's fucking terrible everywhere" protecting anybody? I'm commenting on how lamentable the situation is across the board
Click to expand...

You know what, I apologize. The snarky comment about shielding Nippon was unnecessary. I could have just pointed out that bringing up gamergate as a comparison doesn't mean much in the face of the institutional and endemic sexism described in the interview. But having just read through it, I was angry and so I lashed out inappropriately.
 
R

rockman zx

Member
Great interview, not really surprised about his words, that's Japan for you, and not only in the video game industry.

This game was key to the revival of fighting games thanks to the influence it had in SF4.
 
H

Hades Hotgun

Banned
TFRazorsaw said:
that's not what I am trying to do at all. :/ I'm frustrated that this shit is so pervasive. Obviously there are different reasons and situations for it and they need to be addressed separately, but I think this is a common problem that comes from a social ill that is, at its core, universal.
Click to expand...

I get that you aren't trying to do that. But my point is that the magnitude is not similar. In the west we have seen an ugly backlash to the growth of female involvement in gaming. But it comes from, as far as I am aware, a virulent minority, as opposed to what Iwasaki describes as majority opposition to female led game making in Japan.
 
T

TFRazorsaw

Banned
Hades Hotgun said:
I get that you aren't trying to do that. But my point is that the magnitude is not similar. In the west we have seen an ugly backlash to the growth of female involvement in gaming. But it comes from, as far as I am aware, a virulent minority, as opposed to what Iwasaki describes as majority opposition to female led game making in Japan.
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I think that "ugly backlash" is ultimately superficial and that allies have done little more than talk to combat this ill. There's the general pay gap that's endemic to the job market in this country, and you rarely see any women leading development outside of indie titles.

Maybe that's "better", but progress in the form of baby steps isn't really progress.
 
U

UltraGunner

Banned
Not surprised, sadly. Japan seems like an awful place to work period, but women seem to have to deal with the brunt of the bullshit.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
TFRazorsaw said:
I think that "ugly backlash" is ultimately superficial and that allies have done little more than talk to combat this ill. There's the general pay gap that's endemic to the job market in this country, and you rarely see any women leading development outside of indie titles.

Maybe that's "better", but progress in the form of baby steps isn't really progress.
Click to expand...

In fairness, that lack of female project leads is probably due in part to the amount of women who choose a career in game development in the first place. But that's a whole other issue. And ultimately, most people who support women's equality aren't in a position where we can do much to combat it beyond talking and trying to raise awareness
 
T

TFRazorsaw

Banned
Aaronrules380 said:
In fairness, that lack of female project leads is probably due in part to the amount of women who choose a career in game development in the first place. But that's a whole other issue. And ultimately, most people who support women's equality aren't in a position where we can do much to combat it beyond talking and trying to raise awareness
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Maybe, but I don't like allies' tendency to pat themselves on the back and say "job well done" for what is essentially a damn lot of bluster. And then they get to effectively lead the rhetoric and talk over the people who are actually affected by it.

and saying "there's not a lot of women who choose a career in game development" ignores the barriers in place that serve to keep more of them from coming in. It's exactly like when people say "well, they could cast someone other than a white guy to play an ethnic character instead of whitewashing them, there aren't enough A-list actors of X-nationality."

Yes, because the industry is an impenetrable WALL that refuses to let such individuals in.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
TFRazorsaw said:
Maybe, but I don't like allies' tendency to pat themselves on the back and say "job well done" for what is essentially a damn lot of bluster.

and saying "there's not a lot of women who choose a career in game development" ignores the barriers in place that serve to keep more of them from coming in. It's exactly like when people say "well, they could cast someone other than a white guy to play an ethnic character instead of whitewashing them, there aren't enough A-list actors of X-nationality."

Yes, because the industry is an impenetrable WALL that refuses to let such individuals in.
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Which is why I said that's a seperate issue. That said, while I think many walls do exist, I think suggesting that Women can't get positions is an unfair statement. I think it's more that a culture exists that most women aren't comfortable with. And this is an issue, but it's also not something people are doing intentionally either in many cases.

And what do you suggest we do then? I can't hire anybody. I don't work in the game industry. In fact, I don't work in any industry since I'm still in college. And honestly, to my understanding, a lot of companies are encouraging diversity, both in ethnicity and gender. I've seen tons of programs trying to get women interested in STEM fields as a whole. People are making efforts. One problem I've heard is that even when a diverse hiring process occurs, it's not uncommon for retention to be low. What needs to be done more than anything is creating environments accepting of diversity. And I honestly feel that on that note, talking is absolutely important. Showing your support and calling out assholes is absolutely meaningful. Just because we aren't protesting on the streets or something doesn't mean people aren't trying.

It's an absolute joke to say things are as bad in the US as they are in Japan. Just because things aren't perfect here doesn't mean we aren't a lot more progressive than any other country
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
udivision said:
Japan ranks 104 out of 142 countries for Inequality in the Workplace.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/10/29/national/japan-remains-near-bottom-of-gender-gap-ranking/#.VeEnFfl3lqM

The USA ranks #20. I know that for some reason we can't have threads like these without pointing out the faults in America, but maybe it's not that hard to believe that sometimes other countries have it worse?
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Seriously. I hate when people act like "everyone's bad" or shit like that and ignore that bad and good is a spectrum and not a black and white thing
 
T

TFRazorsaw

Banned
It's an absolute joke to say things are as bad in the US as they are in Japan. Just because things aren't perfect here doesn't mean we aren't a lot more progressive than any other country
Click to expand...

The USA ranks #20. I know that for some reason we can't have threads like these without pointing out the faults in America, but maybe it's not that hard to believe that sometimes other countries have it worse?
Click to expand...

as I've said like three times now, I never said that wasn't the case. But let's be real here, 20th, or 104th is still losing. Congratulations, we're still failing miserably.
 
T

TFRazorsaw

Banned
Shining Sunshine said:
If women want to have kids, I remember hearing from a Japanese friend in the game industry that Japanese companies don't offer maternal benefits. The game industry takes too much time, so I wouldn't doubt women choose raising their children over work.
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read up on how the entertainment industry treats pregnant women and creators. Joss Whedon nearly destroyed a woman's career because she wanted to have a child.

EDIT - it's also not a matter of black and white. It's the D-student lording his accomplishments over someone who got an F.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
TFRazorsaw said:
as I've said like three times now, I never said that wasn't the case. But let's be real here, 20th, or 104th is still losing. Congratulations, we're still failing miserably.
Click to expand...

Looking at the details of the report, the main area where we really fall behind is political representation. We're actually ranked number 4 in the economic field. And most of the people ranked higher in education and health are only marginally so.
 
T

TFRazorsaw

Banned
And how exactly does that help women in the entertainment industry, which is relevant to gaming? Just today I read a series of tweets from a comic writer who had to either hide or downplay her pregnancy while continuing to tour.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
TFRazorsaw said:
And how exactly does that help women in the entertainment industry, which is relevant to gaming? Just today I read a series of tweets from a comic writer who had to either hide or downplay her pregnancy while continuing to tour.
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Again, nobody's saying it's perfect or anything like that. THere's tons of room for improvement. But bitching about the people who are trying to support and raise awareness just because they don't meet some standard of what you think people should do is bullshit. And again, we're still much better than most of the world, and progress is still happening. It's not super fast, but change is never instantaneous.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Aya Kyogoku was the co-director of Animal Crossing New Leaf, a game that sold millions of copies and has a large percentage of female fans. It's almost as if women know how to appeal to women, which leads more people to buy games and thus make more money. Who would've thunk it?
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
udivision said:
Japan ranks 104 out of 142 countries for Inequality in the Workplace.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/10/29/national/japan-remains-near-bottom-of-gender-gap-ranking/#.VeEnFfl3lqM

The USA ranks #20. I know that for some reason we can't have threads like these without pointing out the faults in America, but maybe it's not that hard to believe that sometimes other countries have it worse?
Click to expand...

We can always improve. Unfortunately Japan has deep societal issues that are far more than just campaigning for pay equity in the work place. Its entirely a culture thing, where real feminism is not a 'thing' because it is simply thought of as the women nagging, and gender equality as a serious thought doesn't really exist.

I've seen an entire forum jump on female politicians in Japan simply pointing out gender related issues faced on an average basis.

Its not pretty.
 
S

Syril

Member
TFRazorsaw said:
EDIT - it's also not a matter of black and white. It's the D-student lording his accomplishments over someone who got an F.
Click to expand...
Where is that happening in this conversation? Look, everyone understands that there are still major gender equality issues in other cultures and fields, including our own, but this topic is about Japan and its game industry.
 
T

TFRazorsaw

Banned
Aaronrules380 said:
Again, nobody's saying it's perfect or anything like that. THere's tons of room for improvement. But bitching about the people who are trying to support and raise awareness just because they don't meet some standard of what you think people should do is bullshit. And again, we're still much better than most of the world, and progress is still happening. It's not super fast, but change is never instantaneous.
Click to expand...

what you call "supporting and raising awareness" I call talking over and grabbing for page clicks instead of actually supporting anyone. Allies care more about getting credit than doing anything.

You asked me earlier what I think we should do. Well, a good start is stepping back. A good ally is more like an intern. Put more women in the role of reviewing games as well as making them; I don't mean op ed pieces. That Polygon review of Metal Gear Solid 5? Let's hear what a woman has to say about Quiet instead of Michael McWhertor.

And let's stop framing conversations like this in the sense of "at least we're not THOSE guys." That's divisive and nationalistic.
 
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