I'm with you on this, I want completely new architecture. I don't want BC Wii u to flounder the nx. I've been happy with the Wii u and I'll probably buy the nx day 1 but I don't want two fishy consoles.
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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
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I'm with you on this, I want completely new architecture. I don't want BC Wii u to flounder the nx. I've been happy with the Wii u and I'll probably buy the nx day 1 but I don't want two fishy consoles.
Fourth Storm
Member
Yeah, good point on the memory controller. I should've thought of that. I was just speculating since I saw that 16 Gigabit DDR4 chips seem to be available and a last minute swap from 4 GB total external RAM to 8 GB might be a possibility, as you said. Not the bus, though, so it wouldn't make sense if they already decided on a 128-bit bus. They would have needed 8 chips for that and doubling capacity from 8 GB (8x8 gigabit chips) to 16 GB (8x16 gigabit chips) seems excessive (I'm also unsure of what speed those 16 Gigabit chips run at...probably not 3200 Mbps like we'd hope for).
Oh, and I don't think a small form factor would be a sudden decision. Rather, like Wii U, they'd have a box size decided on and then gradually see how much of a clock increase they can get away with before it sets fire.
If NX came in a Xbone sized case with vents up the wazoo, I can't imagine this being much of an issue.Graphics Horse
Member
How does mobile suitable memory compare with higher power memory these days?
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Hey guys, when is the Nintendo meeting thing happening?
Graphics Horse
Member
Tuesday. expect nothing to avoid disappointment
I'm keeping my expectations as low as possible.
James Scott
Banned
Has Nintendo ever revealed a console during those meetings? Not sure they've ever revealed anything too worthwhile there
Jonneh3003
Banned
Hero of Legend
Member
TECHNICALLY yes as 3DS and Wii U were in the last quarter/end of FY meeting in April (3DS was unveiled in March though, likely out of nowhere?). It was basically so for Wii U as the meeting was then no? But I don't know what was going on in March 2010 when 3DS was unveiled, maybe the meeting was a month early?
I'm expecting a pokemon style silhouette.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Last I heard Samsung's LPDDR4 was the fastest memory on the market - faster than DDR4. But also the most expensive, IIRC.
True, But not many games on the 3DS have been (console) system sellers for the last 2 years (not counting Pokemon that you say will not be a launch title).
My expectations are through the roof! Just because I want a new 3D Mario and Retro's next Donkey Kong game (I know I know it will not be a follow up to TF but one can dream)
TheMoon
Member
No. They are not gonna reveal NX things there.
All they might say is WHEN they will do that.
NX has not been revealed and QOL is not a console and also hasn't been revealed.
The one thing they did reveal was the NFP (amiibo).
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Sometimes little bits of key information come out, such as Nintendo announcing a "handheld with multiple screens" or "with a 3D display," but never a true unveiling. Those are saved for press-facing events.
But now Nintendo has moved towards pre-recorded Nintendo Directs, so things could be different. Granted, I'm expecting nothing on Tuesday, but the reveal may be handled differently.
Pokemaniac
Member
Pokemon has never been that popular on console to begin with.
Also, a lot of the big system sellers (Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros) tend to go on both console and handheld already.
Fourth Storm
Member
Going by the (far too many) searches I've done, that seems to be the case. I wonder how much Nintendo might save if they used the same RAM chips/modules in the handheld and console.
Otherwise, we're looking at slow external RAM once again, because there's no way Nintendo opt for a 256-bit bus.
My point was mostly that the majority nintendo's 3ds games lately would not have sold more consoles since they are not suitable for a console.
However, I do hope and believe that thatis because all A-teams at Nintendo have been hard at work on NX games for the last 2 years.
Also, As far as I can tell it has never been a mainline Pokemon on a console.
However, I do hope and believe that thatis because all A-teams at Nintendo have been hard at work on NX games for the last 2 years.
Also, As far as I can tell it has never been a mainline Pokemon on a console.
The console having BC doesn't force it to use PowerPC for the system CPU. By far the most likely scenario would be an ARM-based SoC as predicted, and then a separate Espresso die for BC (and maybe to offload some OS functions onto).
To be honest I see the controller screen being by far the bigger encumbrance from BC. Incorporating a screen and the other components you need to accommodate it (e.g. larger battery, streaming hardware, etc.) would add substantially to the cost of an NX home console, far more than a little Espresso die.
I also think, coming back to my point about accommodating NX's successors, that the philosophy for the design of the NX hardware (both handheld and home console) should be to keep them as simple as possible to allow them to be more easily iterated upon. If the NX has a screen in the controller, then every future NX has to have a screen in the controller. If the NX has split memory pools then they're constraining their future selves when developing the next NX's memory system. If the handheld NX has two screens, then every future handheld NX has to have two screens, etc., etc.
I don't necessarily mean that I think that's what Nintendo will do (as they're not ones to be simple and predictable), but if I were designing the NX home console and handheld, a lot of my focus, from the guts of the console to the control method, would be on making sure I'm not setting up roadblocks for myself five years down the line when I have to build the successor to this thing.
Iwata talked about integrating software development for handhelds and home consoles as early as January 2013 (it's the very first thing in the OP). The contract with AMD for the design of the console's APU looks to have been signed around November 2014, with design work starting November/December 2014, which would give them ample time to put together a home console for a late 2016 launch.
Yeah, good point on the memory controller. I should've thought of that. I was just speculating since I saw that 16 Gigabit DDR4 chips seem to be available and a last minute swap from 4 GB total external RAM to 8 GB might be a possibility, as you said. Not the bus, though, so it wouldn't make sense if they already decided on a 128-bit bus. They would have needed 8 chips for that and doubling capacity from 8 GB (8x8 gigabit chips) to 16 GB (8x16 gigabit chips) seems excessive (I'm also unsure of what speed those 16 Gigabit chips run at...probably not 3200 Mbps like we'd hope for).
Oh, and I don't think a small form factor would be a sudden decision. Rather, like Wii U, they'd have a box size decided on and then gradually see how much of a clock increase they can get away with before it sets fire.
Well, yes, they could be switching from 4GB to 8GB, or even from 6GB to 12GB for all we know. Trying to guess sizes or bus widths is incredibly difficult, though, without anything to go on. Particularly as we can't even say for sure whether they're using split pools or not (Wii U was easier as it had BC with Wii, which pretty much necessitated split pools). For all we know they've said to hell with split pools, let's go with a single pool of 6GB GDDR5 on a 193 bit bus to simplify development. Hell, for all we know they've thrown the entire console budget into HBM just because they love having memory so close to the CPU and GPU.
Also, on DDR4 speeds, I'm pretty sure only 4Gb chips will clock to 3200 MT/s. The 16Gb chips seem to be limited to 2400 MT/s.
Graphics Horse
Member
Well, 3200MT/s DDR4 and LPDDR4 are both available, but it seems the faster LPDDR4 seems to be catching on quicker. Both the iPhone 6s and iPad Pro use it (6s with a 64-bit bus for 25.6GB/s and iPad Pro with a 128 bit bus for 51.2GB/s), and they're using both Samsung and SK Hynix as suppliers. I don't think Samsung has anything quicker than 3200MT/s yet.
That said, LPDDR4 does offer one advantage over DDR4, which is that the product ships with much wider interfaces, meaning the aggregate bandwidth per chip would actually be as much as four times higher than DDR4. The iPhone 6s gets that 25.6GB/s out of a single chip.
In theory, if you were a console designer who liked a nice tidy motherboard (say, Nintendo), you could actually get 8GB of RAM with
Edit: Actually, it seems SK Hynix is mass producing LPDDR4 that will do 3733 MT/s, so I updated the above accordingly.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I think they're going to have the world premiere of the Metroid NX trailer.
WHO'S THAT HARDWARE?!?
Fourth Storm
Member
Of course we are speculating based on Nintendo's past history and current availability. I could see one lpDDR4 chip being used in the console, allowing them to use the same exact part in the handheld as well. Four chips would require a wide 256-bit bus, which Nintendo have famously shied away from. Samsung does produce 32 Gigabit chips, so they could have 2-4 GB of lpDDR4 on the motherboard for OS and Application data with another pool of HBM on the MCM. Not sure if HBM1 would be a realistic option, however, as only SK Hynix produced it and I'd imagine they're transitioning their facilities to HBM2 for this year.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Yeah but we heard about the projects from these meetings, just saying we can expect something. Even the smallest detail or plan.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The 2GB iPone6s part by Samsung appears to be a 'special order' - their off-the-shelf 2GB parts have 32bit buses, with 64bit buses reserved for the 3GB and 4GB parts. So basically, nintendo could have a 4-part, 8GB setup on a 128bit bus, 51GB/s in the console and 2-part, 4GB setup on a 64bit bus, 25.6GB/s in the hh, with the same low-density parts.
Nintendo aren't completely averse to wide busses. The 3DS uses a 128-bit memory bus, which is very wide by mobile standards. Four LPDDR4 chips could also be positioned on the motherboard very neatly near the SoC, which eliminates a lot of the motherboard complexity issues which would usually come with a wide memory bus. It also depends on whether they're using split pools or not. If the LPDDR4 was their only memory pool then you'll pretty much need a 256-bit bus if you don't want the memory bottlenecking the whole system. Obviously if they've got a separate pool for the framebuffer you can get away with quite a bit less bandwidth to the main memory.
Regarding split pools, if that is the way Nintendo goes, then the theory is that the smaller, faster pool pretty much only needs to be large enough to hold the render target, as a huge proportion of a gaming console's bandwidth demands are focussed on that very small patch of memory. Hence why the Wii U's eDRAM only needs to constitute a little over 1.5% of the system's RAM, yet appears to have over 84% of the system's memory bandwidth pointing towards it. The reason I mentioned a split pool of HBM before isn't because the small pool actually needs to have 1GB of capacity, just that it may actually be cheaper to use 1GB of HBM than 32MB of SRAM, and it satisfies the bandwidth requirements.
So, if they were using HBM as the small pool, then the logical thing to do would be to use as little as possible of it and leave the bulk of the capacity to the main pool. If they were at the point where there was maybe 4GB of HBM and 2GB of (LP)DDR, then you're as well just going with 6GB of HBM and eliminating the need for the extra memory controller and the other general complications that go with having split pools. (Hence why the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 rather than 5GB of GDDR5 and 3GB of DDR3)
Regarding HBM manufacturing, my logic would be that the switchover to HBM2 would be a perfect time for Nintendo to start using HBM1. SK Hynix would be happy to have a continued customer for their existing product rather than having to re-tool the factory, and Nintendo would get 1GB 128GB/s chips that fit their needs without the expense of HBM2.
Not that I actually think that the NX will use HBM, or LPDDR4 (well, not in the home console, anyway). Just that their costs/benefits have to be considered in respect to the other memory options Nintendo has.
Nintendo may not be quite as big as Apple when it comes to these kinds of things, but I would imagine they would be able to get a similar custom part if they really needed it. Besides, I think the 64-bit SK Hynix parts are standard, although they aren't making it easy by just giving 17-digit product codes and expecting you to decode them to find out the part's specifications.
I would also err on the side of assuming that Nintendo would stick with a single RAM chip on the portable unless absolutely necessary (which, by the way, is completely possible to achieve in your sample specifications with the same 4GB and 64-bit bus, as you mentioned yourself in the previous line!)
Maybe I didn't write the last part of my post clearly enough. Allow me to explain better.
The past two console announcements from Nintendo were made with a press release.
For Nintendo 3DS, this press release came on March 23rd, 2010, not at the same time as one of their financial results' announcements. IIRC, that happened due to trying to anticipate an upcoming article from Nikkei with some details on it. If that's wrong, feel free to correct me. In this case, some details about the console were detailed as well: 3D screen, back-compatibility.
For Nintendo Wii U, the press release came right in time with their Q4 FY2012 (and their Full Fiscal year) results announcement. In this PR, the console was just named as the Wii successor, and no other details about it were given.
What I meant with those last sentences is that, IMHO, there are high chances they will issue a PR before in that same style announcing something more about the project (more similar to 3DS's announcement), and that it's going to happen alongside a Financial Results' announcement. Now, what I hope is that it comes in a few days, but I recognise the chances this happens are quite low. The last sentence was a personal hope, not an expectation based completely on reason.
Hopefully, this is clear enough now
This is all if they really show the platform(s) for the first time at E3, as said by Tansut. I'm still of the opinion that there could be something more than those PRs before E3, along the lines of PS4-Xbox One preview events, with a bigger, proper and formal unveiling at E3, which could mean we wouldn't get those kind of press releases. We'll see. Hopefully rather sooner than later
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Excellencies, Dear friends, Distinguished gaffers, I deeply regret to announce that I have now received a reply from my source detailing nothing in terms of Nintendo's upcoming system codenamed "NX". I was however properly thanked for my efforts in ensuring the continued security of developer interests, and for that I am grateful.
Due to the nature of this situation, I kindly request discretion. I wish to fully recognize and respect the new legal and political realities stemming from the new development climate of Nintendo. Any material I may or may not have, regardless of connection, will have to for the time being due to overarching principles remain outside publication.
I realize this may come as a disappointment to some. Hopefully we will receive some interesting details about NX during Nintendo's financial results briefing next week, and can focus on that instead. But I will see to increasing my efforts in finding NX information should this aridity of information continue.
My words may appear unsatisfactory. Unfortunately, it is beyond the scope of this post to give a more comprehensive answer. For this I am sorry.
Due to the nature of this situation, I kindly request discretion. I wish to fully recognize and respect the new legal and political realities stemming from the new development climate of Nintendo. Any material I may or may not have, regardless of connection, will have to for the time being due to overarching principles remain outside publication.
I realize this may come as a disappointment to some. Hopefully we will receive some interesting details about NX during Nintendo's financial results briefing next week, and can focus on that instead. But I will see to increasing my efforts in finding NX information should this aridity of information continue.
My words may appear unsatisfactory. Unfortunately, it is beyond the scope of this post to give a more comprehensive answer. For this I am sorry.
Hero of Legend
Member
Rösti;193707155 said:
No worries, thanks for trying though.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Who wants to bet Rosti had anything at all?
:OOOOO
Elfforkusu
Member
No worries, thanks for trying though.
So are we still planning to kidnap Rosti and torture him for info? Guys?
I canceled my NX cult meeting for this.
the incredible programming language known as Brainfuck
ShockingAlberto
Member
ColtraineGF
Member
First part is a brainf*ck program. The output is "Damn".
Second part is numbers for letters of the alphabet. 14=N, 4=D, 1=A.
"Damn NDA"
Just saving y'all some time here.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
You amazing man.. its all goodRösti;193707155 said:
WiiRevolution1
Member
No, it clearly is a message of HYPE!
QUICK! Someone go back and see if there was a rumor posted on April 1st 2014 or January 4th 2014. Its a secret to everybody, waiting to be discovered!!
!!
Hoping he's taking some suggestions of questions to ask.
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