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texhnolyze · Feb 17, 2016

Thanks to ezodagrom for pointing these out in the other thread.

Kaldaien said:
So, VMProtect is a major pain in the ♥♥♥, we all know that, but... I just made a major breakthrough using Cheat Engine as a debugger.

Some extraordinarily familiar machine code is right out in the open. Two integer values, both defaulting to 0x02 and both written at the beginning of a frame. Both impossible to directly modify with Cheat Engine without disabling a certain line of code.

Bingo!

ToS uses not only the same broken framerate limiter, all of its timing is handled the same way as ToZ as well. TickScale and all that fun stuff from TZFix, it will apply here too and I can start bringing over code from TZFix it looks like.

Despite VMProtect, a 60 FPS mod is possible and if we are lucky, the polish that went into TZFix will make getting it running smoothly here a lot simpler.

So, um, in case you missed it ... 60 FPS possible and soon.

Kaldaien said:
I kind of should have figured this to be completely honest. While the two games graphically look nothing alike, the underlying graphics engine in ToS and ToZ, is the same. I'll let that sink in for a minute. ToS and ToZ use the same graphics engine, yet Other Ocean couldn't even figure out how to do arbitrary resolution with it.

Kaldaien said:
There is actually one nifty difference between ToS and ToZ, and it's a huge one.

In Tales of Zestiria, the tick scale was basically an integer multiple of 16.6666667 ms. This meant the framerate limit was 60, no ifs ands or buts.

Here, the meaning of this variable is flipped on its head. There is division going on. That means instead of an upper-bound like ToZ had, ToS has a lower-bound (15 FPS).

ToS cannot run slower than 15 FPS, but it can run faster than 60 FPS. This is an altogether easier pill for a lot of PC gamers to swallow Who knows what will go wrong at 120 FPS, but it'll be fun to find out.

Steam discussion thread

For the record, Kaldaien co. is the one who made the 60fps fix for Zestiria. He's been actively fixing Symphonia as well with TSFix, now at version 0.4.1. And it seems that 120fps is also possible this time. Thanks to the community fixes (Kaldaien and Durante), the game is now a feast to my eyes.

I just had no idea that Bamco have been using the same engine since Symphonia.

Enter the Dragon Punch · Feb 17, 2016

pffft hahaha what the hell bamco

GhostTrick · Feb 17, 2016

I dont think thats what it means.

diaspora · Feb 17, 2016

Same engine as TOS? That's unbelievable.

kagamin · Feb 17, 2016

Awesome, I might buy it again now if all the other random non-graphic related bugs are fixed.

texhnolyze · Feb 17, 2016

GhostTrick said:
I dont think thats what it means.

I guess you're right.
It's on the same engine as the PS3 port engine, perhaps? No idea.

BY2K · Feb 17, 2016

Excuse me!?

PsihoPerihelion · Feb 17, 2016

This game stutters like crazy on my machine. I regret everything.

chaosblade · Feb 17, 2016

Still can't believe this game released in the state it did.

Hopefully between the patches and TSfix it will be a good version of the game.

forest · Feb 17, 2016

This whole fiasco just made me dust off the ol cube and take the original for a spin again! That's kind of like a 60fps mod right?

Mivey · Feb 17, 2016

If it is really the exact same engine, to the point were the machine code is almost identical, why did they not just copy/paste the PC code of the ToZ guys? Or .. I don't know .. ask the ToZ porting team for help? Too much pride?

VariantX · Feb 17, 2016

texhnolyze said:
I just had no idea that Bamco have been using the same engine since Symphonia.

Wait, what?? This raises more questions, Is this the same engine as GC Symphonia or is the PS2 port on a seperate engine altogether?

Shepard · Feb 17, 2016

Definitive edition confirmed again. Not because of Namco, that's for sure.

Mifec · Feb 17, 2016

chaosblade said:
Still can't believe this game released in the state it did.

Hopefully between the patches and TSfix it will be a good version of the game.

With the fix and gedosato it already is the best.

Nachtfalke · Feb 17, 2016

There is a durante fix for this game. What is it about? Seems like I missed it completely.

Mifec · Feb 17, 2016

Nachtfalke said:
There is a durante fix for this game. What is it about? Seems like I missed it completely.

http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?p=824

Nachtfalke · Feb 18, 2016

Mifec said:
http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?p=824

Thanks!

Datschge · Feb 18, 2016

Nachtfalke said:
There is a durante fix for this game. What is it about? Seems like I missed it completely.

Kaldaien ported Durante's changes to his TSFix as they didn't play well with each others (caused heavy slow downs), so TSFix now contains all of them.

10k · Feb 18, 2016

I'm so soured by this and Zestiria that I may not even bother playing it if it is fixed.

Ryne · Feb 18, 2016

I was wrong, sorry!

Ascheroth · Feb 18, 2016

texhnolyze said:
For the record, Kaldaien is the one who made the 60fps fix for Zestiria. He's been actively fixing Symphonia as well with TSFix, now at version 0.4.1. And it seems that 120fps is also possible this time. Thanks to the community fixes (Kaldaien and Durante), the game is now a feast to my eyes.
/IMG]

That wasn't him alone, but also DrDaxxy. Credit where credit's due : P

Anyway. Very nice progress.
Now if only they would get rid of VMProtect I might actually bother installing it...

Corpekata · Feb 18, 2016

Ryne said:
Looks like Symphonia's Steam forums were locked or deleted or something. Everything is gone.

Still up for me.

Ryne · Feb 18, 2016

Corpekata said:
Still up for me.

Glitch on my end, already edited to correct my mistake.

Ascheroth · Feb 18, 2016

Ryne said:
Glitch on my end, already edited to correct my mistake.

Well, steamcommunity was down for me too for like a minute, if that's any consolation.

Barrylocke · Feb 18, 2016

Way, was the Tales of Symphonia port a bad one? If I recall correctly, the Tales of Zesteria PC port was pretty good besides the FPS thing.

entremet · Feb 18, 2016

Barrylocke said:
Way, was the Tales of Symphonia port a bad one? If I recall correctly, the Tales of Zesteria PC port was pretty good besides the FPS thing.

It was a disaster,.

Nanashrew · Feb 18, 2016

Barrylocke said:
Way, was the Tales of Symphonia port a bad one? If I recall correctly, the Tales of Zesteria PC port was pretty good besides the FPS thing.

Missing text fields, having easy access to the "localization PC.txt" files, locked internal resolution, game crashing, etc., etc.

It was a total disaster.

ezodagrom · Feb 18, 2016

Barrylocke said:
Way, was the Tales of Symphonia port a bad one?

Yes, resolution lock at 720p, 30 fps lock, typos that didn't exist in previous versions, on launch the UI for any language other than english was broken, it comes with a pretty annoying anti-tamper system that doesn't even allow (or makes it harder) to enhance the game with drivers settings (possible with modding), amongst other things.

It was ported by the studio that ported Ultra Street Fighter 4 to PS4 (which was a huge mess on launch), should say enough...

Jotamide · Feb 18, 2016

Other Ocean was in charge? That explains it.

texhnolyze · Feb 18, 2016

They've released several patches that fix the little things. But several major ones aren't fixed yet.

Ascheroth said:
That wasn't him alone, but also DrDaxxy. Credit where credit's due : P

Anyway. Very nice progress.
Now if only they would get rid of VMProtect I might actually bother installing it...

Ah, right. I think I heard that before but can't seem to find the source. He always seems working alone.

ezodagrom · Feb 18, 2016

Jotamide said:
Other Ocean was in charge? That explains it.

Yep

Pic taken from the livestream below.
http://www.twitch.tv/baffan/v/40431151?t=4h13m10s

VariantX · Feb 18, 2016

Jotamide said:
Other Ocean was in charge? That explains it.

I wish they'd fix Hexic. Its busted on Win 10 and the page is full of complaints

BoosterDuck · Feb 18, 2016

no words

Kazer · Feb 18, 2016

This will be the definitive version if this happens. I might actually play through it again!

kewlmyc · Feb 18, 2016

Just tried it out. Looks great. Can't wait for the 60fps fix.

This is just shameful, Namco. I gave them the benefit of the doubt when modders got Zestiria to run at 60fps, but modders fixed this entire release in a matter of weeks. Whoever ported this should be embarrassed.

True Fire · Feb 18, 2016

Same engine as Zestiria? No wonder Tales games look like shit. I can't see Scamco ever moving on from their low budget dev cycle either, if Berseria is any indication.

Tizoc · Feb 18, 2016

I'll wait for a few more mods and fixes to go up then give Symphonia a whirl.

kayos90 · Feb 18, 2016

I'm wondering if Bamco is going to continue to release shitty PC ports because they know people will fix it fairly quickly.

jj984jj · Feb 18, 2016

I'm actually not too surprised. I heard a long time ago that Abyss was using a modified Symphonia engine, and let's be honest despite some bickering about some nice effects they've used the look of these games haven't changed that much since Abyss.

Vesperia is the only one that stands out largely due to being the only one to use the cel shading style since Symphonia on a capable platform while sticking to the fairly realistic dimensions we've had with the characters since Abyss as well.

Basileus777 · Feb 18, 2016

kayos90 said:
I'm wondering if Bamco is going to continue to release shitty PC ports because they know people will fix it fairly quickly.

Symphonia has barely sold anything outside of the copies people got from Zestiria (which was a good port) so they'd have to be really stupid to come to that conclusion from this saga.

AColdDay · Feb 18, 2016

Is it a better experience to play the GC Tales of Symphonia with Dolphin, or to play ToS with this patch?

Falk · Feb 18, 2016

kayos90 said:
I'm wondering if Bamco is going to continue to release shitty PC ports because they know people will fix it fairly quickly.

I feel like at some point the goodwill will run out (if it hasn't already)

While a completely different franchise, Dark Souls didn't end up that way.

chaosblade · Feb 18, 2016

kayos90 said:
I'm wondering if Bamco is going to continue to release shitty PC ports because they know people will fix it fairly quickly.

I doubt it, considering they used a DRM that directly hindered modding.

Aeana · Feb 18, 2016

kayos90 said:
I'm wondering if Bamco is going to continue to release shitty PC ports because they know people will fix it fairly quickly.

They used an anti-tamper DRM, so clearly they didn't want people messing with it.

texhnolyze · Feb 18, 2016

Yeah, and they're clearly not giving up that DRM anytime soon. As several days ago they released an update regarding certain antivirus program won't be blocking the DRM anymore. They'd rather work with antivirus company to release definition updates than removing the DRM altogether.

R10Neymarfan · Feb 18, 2016

Aeana said:
They used an anti-tamper DRM, so clearly they didn't want people messing with it.

And yet the community manager said to use the TSfix until further notice...lol

Corpekata · Feb 18, 2016

jred250 said:
Is it a better experience to play the GC Tales of Symphonia with Dolphin, or to play ToS with this patch?

When this fix hits, it'll look as good and run as well as the Dolphin version and also have the bonus content from the PS3 version.

Durante · Feb 18, 2016

Lucky it's not UWA, eh?

Corpekata said:
When this fix hits, it'll look as good and run as well as the Dolphin version and also have the bonus content from the PS3 version.

It actually will (and already does aside from the FPS) look better than the Dolphin version. Dolphin has some semi-broken postprocessing at high res (like the initial release of my plugin).

KainXVIII · Feb 18, 2016

texhnolyze said:
I just had no idea that Bamco have been using the same engine since Symphonia.

No surprises here, "Tales of" series always looks outdated (maybe excluding some first games)

texhnolyze · Feb 18, 2016

Update from Kaldeien:

Code:
Seems VMProtect's not spitting out my instruction level modifications anymore:

Code:

02/17/2016 22:37:03.104: [StutterFix] Scanned Namco Framerate Bug ("Limiter"): 005C9140h

That's half the battle right there

Expect initial versions of the 60 FPS mod for Tales of Symphonia to be somewhat hacky. Think hotkeys for framerate limits like Zestira had (still does). The problem with this mod is going to be testing, there are some dedicated individuals and I really appreciate that, but most people are scared witless of this port I think

Dangling the 60 FPS carrot out there might not be enough to convince them to come back and give me test feedback, understandably.

He's looking for testers, apparently.

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TSFix: Tales of Symphonia PC 60fps mod incoming, it's on the same engine as Zestiria

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