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Star Citizen's single player campaign will miss 2016 launch date

The thing I find real shitty about this is that they announced it at Citizen Con, when most people buy tickets and pay attention to because of new information/reveals, and people were particularly interested in SQ42 because even leading up to it they were hyping up SQ42 stuff.

You telling me they couldn't announce this before the event that the game will be pushed to 2017? They only did it then because they knew most people were interested in SQ42 info/preview for this Citizen Con, so by announcing the delay before it they would hurt Citizen Con.
 

KKRT00

Member
There's ambition and there's unrealistic optimism. Look, there's a narrative a lot of SC fans have formed that critics of the project don't understand game development. I disagree. I think early on many critics saw the scope of the game and everything that was being promised and many of us thought "it would take years and years for a game of this scope to get made even if it were coming from an established studio".

Then we get Roberts throwing out wildly optimistic dates for years now that any reasonable person knows they have no chance of hitting. Then when those dates pass, we get people saying "of course it's not ready yet, AAA development takes time". And the critics know that, and the defenders know that, but that doesn't stop Roberts from slapping a 2016 release date on SQ42 or telling you guys you'll have 3.0 by the end of the year despite not even having 2.6 yet with 2017 rapidly approaching. The critics aren't the ones setting unrealistic time frames, CIG and Roberts are.

Most people who call the game a scam aren't saying that there is no game, no progress is being made, and nothing is being worked on. I think most believe that Roberts and CIG vastly overstate progress, show tech demo's of things that aren't even close to working but promise them soon, and do this partly to keep funding strong. Given that AAA development does take a long time and MMO development even longer, the scope of the game that they did have to build up studios, that unexpected delays happen, and that they are more or less working on two games at once, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect a 2018-2019 date for SQ42 and sometime in the early 2020's for SC (and even then I'd expect some features cut). If CIG were to actually put those dates out there though, it could have a negative impact on funding. The "scam" is that they paint an unrealistic picture of the progress they're making.
Actually the end of 2016 date for Squadron 42 was completely reasonable when they were planning it.
They missed it due to procedural planets and better AI.
Missing this date by half a year is completely normal in development, it happened for so many, much less ambitious titles - Mass Effect, Uncharted, Deus Ex, Witcher.

The dates before 2015 were unreasonable, but they were also based on much different model, because they didnt know how problematic outsourcing will be and that people will fund them to the degree they did.
They made a lot of mistakes in 2013/2014, but in two last years they really were on point with most of the stuff, except Star Marine.
 

Burny

Member
You telling me they couldn't announce this before the event that the game will be pushed to 2017? They only did it then because they knew most people were interested in SQ42 info/preview for this Citizen Con, so by announcing the delay before it they would hurt Citizen Con.

And certainly after hyping up a 750$ fantasy .jpg ship sale for wannabe pretend space people desperate to reach the wannabe pretend space people ten miles high club.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
Star Citizen was the trigger, pledges amount to some 400$ and something. The rest is hardware great for also playing games that aren't run into a wall by a big headed buffoon who manages to hold a convention for paying believers after promising a demo of the long awaited campaign, but then prances about on stage showing mostly forum tech and a broken scripted FPS tech demo on which Crisis 1 gameplay shits on, shows a trailer for selling another 750$ .jpg ship sale for the gullible, but all the while glosses over any mention of the promised campaign footage and certainly fails to offer an apology up front and most certainly fails to offer a new ETA.

Hey, maybe, if we all buy some 750$ Polaris .jpgs, we'll get to see, you know, anything from the 125$ Mio. backer money game that they've been toiling on for five years by his accounts. Or was it three years? Or was it because we don't understand game development? Or was it because making a cinematic campaign is unprecedented and they had to spend four of those five years and more like than not the better part of the money for refactoring the Cryengine? Or was it because they first had to revolutionize forum tech and introduce labels for customer support? I don't know because I don't keep up with all the revisionist bullshit implied either by CIG or the backers.

What do you think?

I think you dropped a large amount of money on someone's dream game (yours and mine included) using an at the time largely untested funding method called "crowd-funding". It turned out to be extremely successful which, with the communities blessing, allowed the project to grow in scope and size from the original concept. This means the game wasn't going to be released in its originally conceived form - however, instead of supporting the developers vision you've decided to shit-talk it at every opportunity simply because you didn't get what you wanted in the time that you wanted it. You have that right I suppose.
 

Burny

Member
I think you dropped a large amount of money on someone's dream game (yours and mine included) using an at the time largely untested funding method called "crowd-funding". It turned out to be extremely successful which, with the communities blessing, allowed the project to grow in scope and size from the original concept. This means the game wasn't going to be released in its originally conceived form - however, instead of supporting the developers vision you've decided to shit-talk it at every opportunity simply because you didn't get what you wanted in the time that you wanted it. You have that right I suppose.

I backend in 2014, long after the kickstarter, after the Arena Commander had been released, expecting continuous progress from there. Didn't even have a dedicated gaming PC before. Crowdfunding had by then been established as a means to finance games. Other studios have done so successfully.

NO. To the bolded part, simply no. I'm fine with waiting till 2018 if the dev is competent I there's reasonable indication they're going to pull through with their schedule. I can live with expanded scope and adding a year or to two to the initally planned dev time. I can live with cutting features to make a release, and continuing financing the studio later by selling addons with those features.


I'm not okay, and neither should anybody else be, with a person who tells one thing (see Roberts' 2012 quote on the last page) pulls a revisioninst at every turn, unabashedly, reliably and continuously fails any ETA they set themselves (note the reference to Star Marine in that link) and then does not even have the goddamn balls to come out on stage, apologize, offer a plausible reason and exlanation and a new ETA as the bloody first thing they do when sailing through a new ETA in front of a crowd of eagerly waiting people who've paid money to be present at that presentation where Squadron 42 content was promised. The whole reason Chris is able to prance around like that is the money they collected from supporters for the given purpose on delivering a product, but he and other leading heads of Star Citizen hushed all the inconsistencies and broken ETAs up and merrily ask 750$ for another bloody .jpeg ship.


This whole attitude, the whole handling of the Star Marine fiasco (for the uninitiated: that's Star Citizens FPS Arena shooter mode), which was supposed to be released in 2015, was then delayed indefinitely, was then weeks not months or years away, then reemerged - who'd have thought - a year later as part of the 2.6 update to their broken ass "Alpha 2.x" tech demo, which - who. would. have. thought. - sails passed its initial ETA.

There are few possible explanations. Either the people in charge and responsible for setting all these ETAs for themsellves are full of shit. Or they're just willfully misleading. I guess it's a combination of both at this point.


This impression is only reinforced for me, as Chris Roberts continues to prance about like he's making the absolute space game of forever, but everything they have shown that can reasonably assumed to be actually played realtime footage, was characterized by janky ass vehicle movement, janky ass character movement, sub-par shooting gameplay compared to about any other high profile FPS out there and by breaking near as often as not in terms of animation. With a 125$ Mio. project that has allegedly been five years into development, this is a downright disgraceful showing. They're playing in the realm of the CoDs, Battlefields and GTAs, in terms of their funding, their time investment and their studio size. There is no "this is so unprecedented, it's hard to do and jankiness is expected" excuse to be made. Either they're capable of delivering what they've set out to do with their whole "Best Damn Space Sim Eever" pretense, or they not. And outside of the realm of fappable bullshots and off hands tech demos, everything they have demonstrated, from the flight model, movement, animation etc. (that hasn't gotten any noticeably less janky and broken since Arena Commander in 2014), to their handling of deadlines, breaking of promises and dancing around being honest about the reasons for continuously breaking self imposed ETAs or being forthcoming with new ETAs speaks volumes that they're not able in any form to deliver on their promises of the BDSSE.
 

Megalo

Member
And certainly after hyping up a 750$ fantasy .jpg ship sale for wannabe pretend space people desperate to reach the wannabe pretend space people ten miles high club.

and after saying on stage that it wasn't necessary at all to buy this ship to enjoy the game, that it was only helping the crowdfunding of SC and that you could enjoy everything the game has to offer for 45$ or something. Really shitty people, a shame !

Some people are worried they will run out of money, others complain they are doing the right thing so it doesn't happen.

They have the opportunity here to create the most ambitious space-sim ever, they could've play it safe but we already have big old AAA for that. Imo it would've have been a waste to not take that opportunity.
 

Megalo

Member
I'm not okay, and neither should anybody else be, with a person who tells one thing (see Roberts 2012 quote on the last page) pulls a revisioninst, unabashedly, reliably and continuously fails any ETA they set themselves (note the reference to Star Marin in that link) and then does not even have the goddamn balls to come out on stage, apologize, offer a plausible reason and exlanation and a new ETA

They are obviously bad at setting release date, and that's why they are not giving new one. It will be released when it will be ready and that should've been the spirit from the start imo. I think nearly everyone here will admit they made huge mistakes, ETA-wise.
But not everyone will agree that we should reconsider the whole project for that.
They are making obvious progress, the game starts to look like a game and they already achieved technical milestones. I chose patience over pitchfork, because in the end I know I'll have a game to play and I like what I'm already looking at.

EDIT: damn, sorry for double post
 
What is telling is that they have nothing to show. Even their technology isn't ready, but then they have to make a game. Story, assets, gameplay mechanics, balancing. That cannot be done in a year or even two. Unless you sacrifice all the quality that is promised and go with the NMS option.

edit: they basically have to keep flogging the $700 imaginary ships to stay afloat until singleplayer is finished. But if they release something and it even slightly deflates the imaginary ship bubble, they'll run out of money. So they have a perverse incentive to never deliver anything except promises that get wilder and wilder on every iteration.
 

Burny

Member
What is telling is that they have nothing to show. Even their technology isn't ready, but then they have to make a game. Story, assets, gameplay mechanics, balancing. That cannot be done in a year or even two. Unless you sacrifice all the quality that is promised and go with the NMS option.

edit: they basically have to keep flogging the $700 imaginary ships to stay afloat until singleplayer is finished. But if they release something and it even slightly deflates the imaginary ship bubble, they'll run out of money. So they have a perverse incentive to never deliver anything except promises that get wilder and wilder on every iteration.


Pretty much corresponds to my current perception of the project. Their attitude and handling of the project is getting less defensible by the day. Citizencon was an absolute low key. And I'm getting the impression some people are starting to wake up and also see the cracks in the wall.

They are obviously bad at setting release date, and that's why they are not giving new one. It will be released when it will be ready and that should've been the spirit from the start imo. I think nearly everyone here will admit they made huge mistakes, ETA-wise.

They have set ETAs, there's no sweet talking it. Updates 2.6 to 2.7 have been supposed to be out during the year. Until Roberts suddenly announced 3.0 for around the end of the year at Gamecom, gracefully glossing over the absence of 2.6 and 2.7. Surpise? I don't think so. Guess what looks like it won't be coming till the end of the year? That's right, update 2.6, 2.7 and 3.0. What was announced for Citizencon? Squadron 42 footage and we all know that wasn't shown. For people setting no new ETAs, they've sure continued to set and sail through a whole lot of them.

This is not just being bad at setting release dates. This is pathological incompetency at project management or willful disguise of facts. Anybody producing something can give a rough stomach feeling estimate based on the recent progress and its current state to when it's going to be finished. And anybody can a week or two before an ETA tell if a release is in any way realistic or not. If they're only halfway honest about it, they'll announce a delay beforehand. After four years of glossing over missed ETAs, not openly announcing delays down to quietly changing ToS, there is no more defense for their bullshit.


If he was working on a publisher financed project and pulled this absolute dishonest bullshit with them, I suspect he'd be long given the boot and rightly so. At least I suppose, he would have been put into a position where he doesn't call the shots. But I guess pretend space people dreaming the dream of cruising about in a 750$ pretend capital ship are a lot more passable, as they're in it for the passion, not for having a realistic expectation of a return for their investment. At least not for as long as they can believe that the dream will eventually come to pass.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
Is anyone else experiencing issues with GAF? As I was preparing a response my connection to GAF was lost. I just thought there was some sort of server issue and GAF was down for everyone, but then I tried Zenmate. It worked for a split second and then a 503 error appeared. So I then switched on Peerblocker and guess what, I'm now able to use GAF again. Even now if I switch off Peerblocker I can't use GAF. I've taken video of this too.

I'm not an IT guy, so I'm not exactly sure why this is happening but something seems very strange about this. There's probably some sycophantic CUNT (not you Burny) out there who hates Star Citizen THAT MUCH that they decided that attacking me is the prefered thing to do becuase I dare to speak my mind about it. This is how much some people hate the game. This is the extent they go to. Sickening.


I had to post this from my phone with a VPN turned as I couldn't post on my desktop.

Is it down confirms the site is up for everyone but me

Edit: video of my woes (sorry about the crappy camera work) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c7q2fvy2dz0

This is rather fascinating to me as it's the first time someone has gone out of their way to silence me. Already 4 views before posting it here (3 on a shitter version since deleted). Amazing.


I backend in 2014, long after the kickstarter, after the Arnea Commander had been released. Didn't even have a dedicated gaming PC before. Crowdfunding had by then been established as a means to finance games. Other studios have done so successfully.

NO. To the bolded part, simply no. I'm fine with waiting till 2018 if the dev is competent I there's reasonable indication they're going to pull through with their schedule. I can live with expanded scope and adding a year or to two to the initally planned dev time. I can live with cutting features to make a release, and continuing financing the studio later by selling addons with those features.


I'm not okay, and neither should anybody else be, with a person who tells one thing (see Roberts' 2012 quote on the last page) pulls a revisioninst at every turn, unabashedly, reliably and continuously fails any ETA they set themselves (note the reference to Star Marine in that link) and then does not even have the goddamn balls to come out on stage, apologize, offer a plausible reason and exlanation and a new ETA as the bloody first thing they do when sailing through a new ETA in front of a crowd of eagerly waiting people who've paid money to be present at that presentation where Squadron 42 content was promised. The whole reason Chris is able to prance around like that is the money they collected from supporters for the given purpose on delivering a product, but he and other leading heads of Star Citizen hushed all the inconsistencies and broken ETAs up and merrily ask 750$ for another bloody .jpeg ship.


This whole attitude, the whole handling of the Star Marine fiasco (for the uninitiated: that's Star Citizens FPS Arena shooter mode), which was supposed to be released in 2015, was then delayed indefinitely, was then weeks not months or years away, then reemerged - who'd have thought - a year later as part of the 2.6 update to their broken ass "Alpha 2.x" tech demo, which - who. would. have. thought. - sails passed its initial ETA.

There are few possible explanations. Either the people in charge and responsible for setting all these ETAs for themsellves are full of shit. Or they're just willfully misleading. I guess it's a combination of both at this point.


This impression is only reinforced for me, as Chris Roberts continues to prance about like he's making the absolute space game of forever, but everything they have shown that can reasonably assumed to be actually played realtime footage, was characterized by janky ass vehicle movement, janky ass character movement, sub-par shooting gameplay compared to about any other high profile FPS out there and by breaking near as often as not in terms of animation. With a 125$ Mio. project that has allegedly been five years into development, this is a downright disgraceful showing. They're playing in the realm of the CoDs, Battlefields and GTAs, in terms of their funding, their time investment and their studio size. There is no "this is so unprecedented, it's hard to do and jankiness is expected" excuse to be made. Either they're capable of delivering what they've set out to do with their whole "Best Damn Space Sim Eever" pretense, or they not. And outside of the realm of fappable bullshots and off hands tech demos, everything they have demonstrated, from the flight model, movement, animation etc. (that hasn't gotten any noticeably less janky and broken since Arena Commander in 2014), to their handling of deadlines, breaking of promises and dancing around being honest about the reasons for continuously breaking self imposed ETAs or being forthcoming with new ETAs speaks volumes that they're not able in any form to deliver on their promises of the BDSSE.


Anyway, Burny, I see where you're coming from. You have strong feelings about it and that's fair enough considering how much you've spent on it. It's seems like in your eyes Star Citizen is doomed no matter what though, like it's a forgone conclusion. If you think that the 300 people working on it aren't up to the task then so be it, but at the end of the day its just your opinion.

Time will tell though, and during that time I choose to be supportive of a group of people trying to make something special and worthwhile. If you want to hate it out of existence then that's your choice.




Anyway if there really is someone out there trying to block or attack me or whatever - know that you are the definition of Human Filth, and that I also think that you're a bit of a dick.
 

Froz3n

Member
SQ42 should be the easy bit, surely. They have FPS mechanics working, cryengine was BUILT for singleplayer first person shooters.... what is going wrong?
 
Anyway if there really is someone out there trying to block or attack me or whatever - know that you are the definition of Human Filth, and that I also think that you're a bit of a dick.
So people blocking you are the definition of Human Filth?

Holy heck, SC threads are sure delivering some pretty amazing stuff ^^.

Also want to add that that post of yours is also just your opinion, like a forgone conclusion that everything is just alllright with the game and it's development ;-).
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
So people blocking you are the definition of Human Filth?

Holy heck, SC threads are sure delivering some pretty amazing stuff ^^.

It hasn't happened to me before.

And yes, silencing discourse because you don't agree with someone, attacking their ability to speak - is Evil imo. I'm sorry you don't think that way and that you choose to tar every one else with the same brush. It's my opinion, not theirs.


I still can't post without a VPN. Chrome shat itself and has done a full reset. If you think that this is acceptable behaviour then we're obviously very different people.

Also want to add that that post of yours is also just your opinion, like a forgone conclusion that everything is just alllright with the game and it's development ;-).

I never said that everything is "alright". I simply accept that there are problems that can be overcome with time, patience and support. Aching for this game to fail, like some pitiful fuckwits of this world (not you Burny), just seems rather pointless to me.
 
They have set ETAs, there's no sweet talking it. Updates 2.6 to 2.7 have been supposed to be out during the year. Until Roberts suddenly announced 3.0 for around the end of the year at Gamecom, gracefully glossing over the absence of 2.6 and 2.7. Surpise? I don't think so. Guess what looks like it won't be coming till the end of the year? That's right, update 2.6, 2.7 and 3.0. What was announced for Citizencon? Squadron 42 footage and we all know that wasn't shown. For people setting no new ETAs, they've sure continued to set and sail through a whole lot of them.

Not to rain on your parade but they did say 2.7 is being rolled into 3.0, since they feel they have enough content to call it 3.0 rather than 2.x. It says so in the article you linked! 2.6 is coming out next, then 3.0.


As for my own thoughts about this; game development is hard, at the scope and fidelity they want is extremely hard. I'm disappointed by the delay, I'm disappointed by the fact it wasn't demoed as planned, but I'm not going to sit here and say there's no considerable progress either in general from SQ42 to SC. We have had a bunch of improvements laid out and shown to us throughout the year and I'm happy with progress if 3.0 does come out within that late this year/early next year timeframe with all the features planned.

I watch the weekly AtV's, the RtV's, the various interviews with Sean Tracy and other directors and developers - I'm impressed by the work these teams are doing. I like seeing what they're building, feeling the passion and work they're putting into the game on a weekly basis. I enjoy reading about the work they're putting into this game on the monthly reports. For example, seeing how passionate the DevOps team was to fixing how patcher works with the limitations CryEngine put on them, and they seem to have done it. That was awesome seeing the whole team up to the lead of DevOps saying "we failed to do it once, we want to do it right this time" and they did it.

I'm sure there are other people on here who follow the game as much as I do, and I think you'd agree that from what they show, there is progress being made on a fundamental and foundational level and I hope that with these tools now being built out they can start really building out this universe. Unification of the rig being sorted out and the animations being polished up, the vision stabilization, the tech being added to the face and rig, ships being slowly pushed out as development on the SQ42 ships nears its end, planet tech v1 and v2 being online, planetary landings, various occupations coming online, subsumption having more and more work getting put into it, the patcher and this was all in the last few months. Is it all there yet? No, but I like that they're showing they can build the tools needed to make the game at the scale they want too. I hope it turns out to be a good game in the end.

Until then as a backer I'll follow the development very closely, I'll be happy with every piece of good news, disappointed when they don't hit deadlines as they've done in the past, but I won't overreact either way. I'm just going to let these guys develop their game and see how it pans out, I'm going to play every alpha release and have fun in it with my friends as I've done in the past, and hope for the best.

SQ42 should be the easy bit, surely. They have FPS mechanics working, cryengine was BUILT for singleplayer first person shooters.... what is going wrong?

This is why;

Pjkvq0S.png

Space to ground chapters, logical and systemic AI that have jobs to function the capital class ships you're apart of the crew on, who help you dofight, carry out missions, and of course the other side as well, 1st/3rd person rig unification, are just 3 reasons why it's not a typical Crysis FPS game. CryEngine was not built for this sadly, and that's why it's taking a long time. It's unfortunate.
 
One will always try to justify why they spent money on something.

This game is now delayed by so many years, any other game like this in which one didn't have their own money invested would be ridiculed. There is zero reason to believe something will be out even after a delay.

They are trying to develop a AAA game without AAA management and that almost never works.
 

Burny

Member
No AAA management?

Todd Pappy
Brian Chambers
Erin Roberts
Nick Elms
Chis Roberts

etc...

These guys all have produced and managed some rather huge games.

And none of them has prevented all kinds of ETAs to be set and handwavingly being broken. Yes, the management of Star Citizen is disfunctional at best (edit: for anything that goes beyond squeezing $$$ out of the gullible wannabe space people). Citizencon, four years of broken ETAs and today's broken ass tech prototypes cannot be explained otherwise, except with employing the mental gymnastics of doublethink.

In comparison, NMS looks like a model project. They made a number of promises, but kept absolutely quiet on all the finer details. They worked on the thing, delayed it a while, but announced those beforehand, released it at full price at the finally specified date. About half of the promise were broken, the other half fulfilled. That cost players 60$. Star Citizen has gone full throttle on promises from day one, announced no delay in advance whatsoever, been delayed for about two years by now, never stopped piling up on the promises, never satisfyingly delivered a single one outside of tech prototype stage, while continuously begging people for copious amounts of money to be able to keep up the charade.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
these are some of the most lofty horseshit goals i've ever read

people can't be this dumb right? like, forgive my bluntness over this but people have to realize these are some of the most unattainable set of goals ever promised by a video game and they can't possibly deliver on this right?

It can't be done!

Mub! HAS SPOKEN.
 

Burny

Member
these are some of the most lofty horseshit goals i've ever read

Not for space game Jebus Chris Roberts. He made some succesful space games a decade ago, you know? Never mind they only have broken tech demos to show for themselves after collecting 125$Mio. of backer money and allegedly being in production for about 5 years now.

Star Citizen will be the second coming of the space opera.
 
these are some of the most lofty horseshit goals i've ever read

people can't be this dumb right? like, forgive my bluntness over this but people have to realize these are some of the most unattainable set of goals ever promised by a video game and they can't possibly deliver on this right?

What exactly is unattainable? Most of the work has been done, the AI still needs work but they have a team of 4 or 5 people on it with a very good lead developer, and hopefully we get a weekly video or monthly report about how far they're along soon.
 

Jackpot

Banned
I mean, this is still on CIG's website as of right now.

dl7FwA6.png

"God, don't those morons know anything about game development? Damn entitled devs."

Stop being daft.

2016 was what they were shooting for. They missed.

So what? Should they they just stop making goals just so they don't offend you with a missed date?

Yup didn't you know it's a big scam and anyone who doesn't think so is a fanboy but the ones calling it a scam cant produce facts that it is.

SnowTeeth said:
There's probably some sycophantic CUNT (not you Burny) out there who hates Star Citizen THAT MUCH that they decided that attacking me is the prefered thing to do becuase I dare to speak my mind about it. This is how much some people hate the game. This is the extent they go to. Sickening.

SnowTeeth said:
This is rather fascinating to me as it's the first time someone has gone out of their way to silence me. Already 4 views before posting it here (3 on a shitter version since deleted). Amazing.

yeesh. that's some fanaticism. How can people be so blinkered?
 

Burny

Member
What exactly is unattainable? Most of the work has been done, the AI still needs work but they have a team of 4 or 5 people on it with a very good lead developer, and hopefully we get a weekly video or monthly report about how far they're along soon.

Show, don't tell!

Incidentally, there was this Citicencon thing recently where the people responsible for that very task - Roberts & Co., not you btw. - were supposed to do exactly that and failed at it.

We got forum tech and another broken ass and ridiculously janky tech demo instead. Yay, I guess? It's hard to make hoverbikes move satisfyingly, correctly trigger scripted sequences, or match Crysis 1 shooter gameplay.
 
No AAA management?

Todd Pappy
Brian Chambers
Erin Roberts
Nick Elms
Chis Roberts

etc...

These guys all have produced and managed some rather huge games.

Chris Roberts is the game director right? He has not done anything of this magnitude or level. And there is no outside publisher to provide any supervision.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
"God, don't those morons know anything about game development? Damn entitled devs."









yeesh. that's some fanaticism. How can people be so blinkered?

Dude, I literally have to use my phone with a VPN to even see this post.

Fanaticism indeed.

Btw, this whole thread has been a laugh for me, don't kid yourself in to thinking I actually give a shit. Yep, I support the game and want it to succeed, but that doesn't make me a fanatic. It's a fucking game.
 

GoaThief

Member
As an original Kickstarter backer can I get a refund? I've not played any of the alpha builds they've put out either.

The scope and feature list has gone way beyond the project I initially backed, I just wanted the game that was originally promised. It should have been out already and all these extra features and funds demanded and paid for by people with money to burn used to make large expansions or a whole new sequel.

Give me five No Man's Sky over one Star Citizen. At least the former is an above average game in a playable state.

Seriously, have any initial Kickstarter backers had refunds?
 

Jackpot

Banned
Dude, I literally have to use my phone with a VPN to even see this post.

Fanaticism indeed.

If you don't know why you having trouble posting on NeoGAF being down to hacking is ludicrously impossible, then you don't have enough tech knowledge to comment on game development.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
If you don't know why you having trouble posting on NeoGAF being down to hacking is ludicrously impossible, then you don't have enough tech knowledge to comment on game development.

Go to hell. I'll comment if I want to.

As far as having trouble posting on GAF - this hasn't happened before. Funny that it occurred whilst commenting on this thread. I admit I have no clue why its happening, but it seems obvious. Still can't use GAF without a VPN. Why?
 
Go to hell. I'll comment if I want to.

As far as having trouble posting on GAF - this hasn't happened before. Funny that it occurred whilst commenting on this thread. I admit I have no clue why its happening, but it seems obvious. Still can't use GAF without a VPN. Why?
It's obviously fanatical SC haters trying to shut your respectful, polite, insightful and well explained comments down.
 

GoaThief

Member
Go to hell. I'll comment if I want to.

As far as having trouble posting on GAF - this hasn't happened before. Funny that it occurred whilst commenting on this thread. I admit I have no clue why its happening, but it seems obvious. Still can't use GAF without a VPN. Why?
DNS issues? Problems with advertisements? Your ISP routing going South? Bugged cookies? Regular browser/PC malware?

There's alsorts. Try O/T and see if any Web techies can help. This isn't the place.
 

Burny

Member
I'm sure they want to show their backers as soon as it's ready.

So much in fact, that they were open and honest, came on stage first front and center, announced that they didn't manage to get things into even a presentable or trailer state for Citizencon, that it was their failure for promising they would and it will just take another month for a trailer to be released.

But that didn't happen. Roberts glossed over the broken promised, they waffled everybody to sleep with forum tech and failed to give an ETA. Ever asked yourself why they failed at giving any new ETA? After all this time and all this money? After a promise they would show something?


Never ever actually considered that internally, things could be absolutely and thoroughly fucked at this point if they can't even produce a trailer anymore or show any content whatsoever despite promising to do so, but instead show powerpoint slides about forum tech?

Go to hell. I'll comment if I want to.

As far as having trouble posting on GAF - this hasn't happened before. Funny that it occurred whilst commenting on this thread. I admit I have no clue why its happening, but it seems obvious. Still can't use GAF without a VPN. Why?

Bloody hell, get a grip on yourself man (or woman)! In networking all things can fuck up. Don't just assume you're being hacked because you can't access the internet normally anymore and you happen to be posting in a Star Citizen thread at the time. That's not even reasonable unless you're somebody involved in the high profile opinion wars between DSmart and Star Citizen cultists (the more extreme form of backers and doubters). All of us here are probably too small of fishes to be interesting targets. Have you eliminated all other potenital technical issues, from ISP issues to malware on your PC?
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
DNS issues? Problems with advertisements? Your ISP routing going South? Bugged cookies? Regular browser/PC malware?

There's alsorts.

It's the timing of the whole thing that made me think this way. It was when I was about to reply to Burny. GAF was working fine until precisely then. ISP is fine, router is fine. I clean my PC daily (Hitmanpro, superantispyware, malwarebytes, adwcleaner). Other sites worked, Gaf didn't. When I turned on a VPN and peerblocker it worked again, but I couldn't post. Tried via my phone, and Gaf didn't work. Tried with a VPN and I'm in.

Yah I don't know what I'm doing, But I wouldn't going on this inane tirade about being "hacked" if I didn't think something was truly screwy.
 

Megalo

Member
Chris Roberts is the game director right? He has not done anything of this magnitude or level. And there is no outside publisher to provide any supervision.

The only supervision a publisher would give would be something like "this is too big and too risky for our money".
Are we at a point where we blame devs for doing something big and new ?

A project like this would never exist without crowdfunding, and it wouldn't be easy for anyone to manage it.
 
So much in fact, that they were open and honest, came on stage first front and center, announced that they didn't manage to get things into even a presentable or trailer state for Citizencon, that it was their failure for promising they would and it will just take another month for a trailer to be released.

Never ever actually considered that internally, things could be absolutely and thoroughly fucked at this point if they can't even produce a trailer anymore, but instead show powerpoint slides about forum tech?

It wasn't supposed to be a trailer, it was to be demoed. One full chapter from start to finish, what we can expect from the final game - the final shipping polish level - it wasn't at that point. He did say to check out one of the livestreams they'll have in November or December for it, but you know dates, they just fly by. I hope we see it before the end of the year.

Either way, things can be terrible, things can be great - I don't know because I'm not in the studios. It doesn't really matter for me, I invested about the normal price for a video game into the game and in my opinion I got a lot of fun for that money already. I wish them the best, I follow development very closely, and I really hope this game will get made to the scale and size they aim for and with the amount of content they aim for. I'm happy with them showing v2 tech, the interviews I read about the tech and the content I saw was impressive.
 

Taij

Member
No AAA management?

Todd Pappy
Brian Chambers
Erin Roberts
Nick Elms
Chis Roberts

etc...

These guys all have produced and managed some rather huge games.

Here's the thing, everyone can talk about their project management methodologies, and what games these guys have worked on in the past, and whatever else we want to talk about regarding game development schedules. But in the end of the day it doesn't mean anything because what SC is doing is completely unprecedented. I can't think of a single other team who has ever been able to say that they're building a game and as they're in production they can come up with new ideas and just keep adding them to the pile with no consequences other than extending the development time. It project management the saying is that it's possible to do it 1) high quality, 2) quickly, 3) cheap, and generally you pick two of those and go. This production they are completely prioritizing one, high quality, and completely ignoring the other two corners of the triangle.

Currently they have an unlimited supply of money and no one telling them they have to stop and finish the game. The ultimate head of production is a dreamer/visionary which means he can keep coming up with new ideas and extend production infinitely. Maybe at some point he'll see reason and decide to finish the game but the way it looks right now he is shooting for something that it's entirely possible can't be accomplished, and as long as he has an audience willing to give him money to keep shooting for that I don't see him stopping any time soon.

I have seen plenty of game productions and I know that if you let the idea guys keep adding things then they will. They will never sit back and say "ok that completely my vision, I can't think of anything else I would want to change". But literally EVERY other company, whether it's Blizzard, Valve, Rockstar, or anyone else, has people who's main job it is is to reign in the ideas, cut the ones that won't make it on time or don't add enough to the game, and get the game done. So again, I don't see a strong producer having any real influence on SC, and it will probably take another 2 years until pressure builds enough that they might have to actually cut off the idea man for a bit and get things done.

It's a rather interesting situation where if you want them to finish the game it looks like you actually have to stop giving them money.
 

GoaThief

Member
Yah I don't know what I'm doing, But I wouldn't going on this inane tirade about being "hacked" if I consent think something was truly screwy.
Tried changing your DNS at router level?

Tried tracert/pinging GAF from cmd prompt?

Tried clearing cookies (including GAF login stuff)?

I believe you when you say GAF is screwy, I'm just doubtful someone has hacked you to prevent you posting in this thread.

****

On topic a bit more, as per my previous post; as an old Kickstarter backer can I get a refund?
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
Bloody hell, get a grip on yourself man (or woman)! In networking all things can fuck up. Don't just assume you're being hacked because you can't access the internet normally anymore and you happen to be posting in a Star Citizen thread at the time. That's not even reasonable unless you're somebody involved in the high profile opinion wars between DSmart and Star Citizen cultists (the more extreme form of backers and doubters). All of us here are probably too small of fishes to be interesting targets. Have you eliminated all other potenital technical issues, from ISP issues to malware on your PC?


I'm losing it!!!!1!!

Gaf is the only site that doesn't work. I've tried on chrome, edge and safari (phone) without a vpn - doesn't work, whereas every other site does. I'm not making this shit up. To someone who isn't that technically inclined it just seemed too perfect. As always though, I could be wrong...


Tried changing your DNS at router level?

Tried tracert/pinging GAF from cmd prompt?

Tried clearing cookies (including GAF login stuff)?

I believe you when you say GAF is screwy, I'm just doubtful someone has hacked you to prevent you posting in this thread.

****

On topic a bit more, as per my previous post; as an old Kickstarter backer can I get a refund?

I don't want to change the DNS for this one issue.

Pinged GAF....and it worked.

Cleared Cookies and everything on Chrome.

Ran CC Cleaner

Tried GAF without a vpn......and it works. LOL.

Just tried it on my phone without a vpn.....and it works!


Wow. I'm either I'm a spastic or the timing of this is too perfect. Okay I'm a spastic.

Cheers for the advice btw.

And you could always ask Customer Serice for a refund, but I dunno how that would work out. Good luck.
 

Zambayoshi

Member
The thing I find real shitty about this is that they announced it at Citizen Con, when most people buy tickets and pay attention to because of new information/reveals, and people were particularly interested in SQ42 because even leading up to it they were hyping up SQ42 stuff.

You telling me they couldn't announce this before the event that the game will be pushed to 2017? They only did it then because they knew most people were interested in SQ42 info/preview for this Citizen Con, so by announcing the delay before it they would hurt Citizen Con.

Yeah, that was shitty. However, it is rumoured that all studios were working around the clock on S42 to get something ready to show for Citizencon, so I imagine that in the end it came down to the wire and they just couldn't finish it in time (as has happened for many things in this project).

In a perfect world Roberts would have recognised that getting something ready for Citizencon was too much of a stretch and nixed it early, but Roberts is nothing if not optimistic.

I have seen plenty of game productions and I know that if you let the idea guys keep adding things then they will. They will never sit back and say "ok that completely my vision, I can't think of anything else I would want to change". But literally EVERY other company, whether it's Blizzard, Valve, Rockstar, or anyone else, has people who's main job it is is to reign in the ideas, cut the ones that won't make it on time or don't add enough to the game, and get the game done. So again, I don't see a strong producer having any real influence on SC, and it will probably take another 2 years until pressure builds enough that they might have to actually cut off the idea man for a bit and get things done.

Interesting aside, I was listening to the developer commentary for Deus Ex Human Revolution and it turns out that all sorts of stuff got cut from that game or just not completed to the vision that the devs had for it because of deadlines. There were at least two major hubs that were cut away entirely, even one that was at 80% art complete because the writers would not have been able to write enough content for it in time. At the end of the day, the concept of 'murder your darlings' is quite apt - if you don't make a tough decision and cull stuff from the project, it is very possible that the project as a whole will suffer for it. What Roberts should have done was have stretch goals apply to different stages of the project and then cascade those releases one after the other. Instead, he chose to try and do everything at once, making the whole thing unwieldy. It was rather late in the day when he chose to split S42 from Star Citizen and then split S42 into chapters. At this point he's got to look at getting something out to the public beyond the alpha: a proper release that people can purchase and judge as a standalone piece of work. It's rumoured that this is what Roberts has mandated - get the first chapter of S42 out as a matter of urgency.
 

Mub!

Member
It can't be done!

Mub! HAS SPOKEN.

I'd like to be proven wrong but I refuse to easily believe they can pull of a game of this scope

a game of this scope has never existed, they have to be rewriting the book on game development if they pull it off

again, if it turns out to be the biggest scope a game has ever had and delivers 100%, I'll be happy but as of right now, I don't buy it.
 
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