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Capcom: Ninja Theory and Dontnod nailed the feeling of the Capcom DNA
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
I'm not sure edge is better than cheese. I'll take cheese any day.
If it's like DMC 3 or DMC 4, sure that's fine. DMC 1 though, that's just embarrassing to sit through. Even silent, no personality, coin flipping Dante from DMC 2 was better than DMC 1 Dante.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Ok, so Capcom tried to add some emotional levity and it backfired hard just like the Zero scene from X4. It's still unintentionally cheesy. The same way the "fuck you" scene was cheesy even though it was suppose to be badass.
Ah yeah I guess that's why Ninja Theory is putting out AAA mega hits every other year and Kamiya was chased out of the industry, never to be heard of again
Megawarrior
Member
Capcom has truly lost it.
Pretty sure vanilla DmC outsold Bayonetta 1, 2, and Wonderful 101. :]
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/finance/million.html
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
This really isn't a fight you wanna start.
Your talking about games released on a console with a small playerbase.
Ignore Bayo 2 and W101 then. Bayonetta 1 was originally was released on 360/PS3, not exactly a small player base.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
PS3 version had a terrible port and Bayonetta was a new IP.
And DmC didn't exactly have a positive word of mouth since its reveal, since it was rebooting a franchise with a different looking character. People hated on the game before they played it. And you should try the PS3's port of DmC, it isn't exactly a good port either. I remember it dropping frames and freezing when I played it for the first time when it was given on Plus.
And Imagine Babyz sold more than DmC. Your point?
I also love how you forgot to mention that in your own link DMC1 sold much more than DmC
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It still had that brand recognition despite being a reboot. Not to mention it had some marketing. You could even say the controversy behind the game is what helped the extra sales.
They did?
Waddle Dee
Member
Huh my point? What's your point? You implied with your original post that Ninja Theory only releases bombs, and Kamiya is releasing hits after hits compared to them haha. I'm stating that latest three games that Kamiya played a role in sold less than Ninja Theory.
Yeah, I didn't mention since it was really relevant to the original post of yours that I quoted. :]
it sure as fuck better be on another level considering what place the industry was at in 2013 compared to 2001 and how much has changed since then. Stories in games hadn't advanced much by 2001 and standards and audience expectations were way different. People forget but MGS came out in 1998, Silent Hill in 1999, Silent Hill 2 in 2001, Planescape Torment in 1999, Grim Fandango in 2000, System Shock 2 in 1998. Most of these didn't have much of an impact due to low sales, and the impact they did have took some years to be felt.
Looking at DMC1's story and going "that shit was so bad", unless it's a response to people saying that DMC1 had a good story, not just for the time but in general, is such a nothing statement. Of course it wasn't good and of course DmC would be better.
Never gonna happen. And news to me if they've downsized.
DmC got 8s and 9s from almost every outlet. It didn't really have an uphill struggle in terms of reception unless you want to make an argument that a few thousand fans poo-pooing the game could drown out any positive reception, to the point where it would underperform in sales. Which didn't seem to hurt games like Tomb Raider 2013 or RE7.
To be fair, Ninja Theory started it. Don't pick fights if you aren't ready to deal with the consequences.
DmC has sold 1.9m as of December.
DmC is so tasteless, lol.
Obesity, stupidity, drink virility...
Meningitis is a human affliction Dante; you are not human.
I've got a bigger dick.
The world is your bitch, as am I.
I like how they removed the sex scene in Definitive.
The combat system is still one of the better 3D Western combat systems, for what that's worth. Camera + No Lock-On + Toggling + Immune Enemies is kind a chore.
Obesity, stupidity, drink virility...
Meningitis is a human affliction Dante; you are not human.
I've got a bigger dick.
The world is your bitch, as am I.
I like how they removed the sex scene in Definitive.
The combat system is still one of the better 3D Western combat systems, for what that's worth. Camera + No Lock-On + Toggling + Immune Enemies is kind a chore.
andythinkpad
Member
Fucking Capcom rather pay NT than Plantium to make DMC. Do they hate Kamiya that much?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Technically DMC fans started it when the reveal trailer was shown. Things just escalated back and forth from there.
You were the one that brought up sales. Ninja Theory isn't doing shit and Kamiya and Co are pumping out multiple games a year to at least mild critical success in most instances.
As a company, it's probably a good idea to not agitate or take jabs at the very fanbase you're trying to appeal to, regardless of who "started" it. You would think that the head of the team would be able to stay above board and not debase himself to the level of an angry mob.
That part was a cool gimmick level, but honestly, as much as I hate fox news, the execution was still pretty tryhard there.
I will say it was a part of the best stretch of the game gameplay wise, though.
Capcom said themselves they hoped for those reactions.
potatohead
Member
What the fuck absolutely not.
DmC is still better than DMC2, so I guess.
LET'S NOT GET TOO CRAZY
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
NT was appealing to a new audience with the reboot first before the fans.
They hoped DMC fans would get angry? Capcom just stood sideline and didn't do anything.
Kill franchises
Best Dante design tbh.
Not just fans, anyone who watched the trailer hated it
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
True. It was a collective clusterfuck in the gaming community at the time.
They wanted people to be shocked, essentially. Don't remember if they anticipated the anger. However, Capcom did stoke the fires shortly after reveal through comments by Capcom USA producer Alex Jones. Overall they made little effort to ease concerns until 2012. Then there was Tameem going "I don't care" as a response to the reactions in a interview shortly post-reveal.
Shadoken
Member
DmC and Bayo 1 are hardly far apart in terms of sales. Maybe a 2-300k apart. Considering DMC is also an established IP with the previous installment selling 3m copies. I'd say Bayo 1 did pretty well. Considering the horrible PS3 port and Sega marketing.
Not to mention it was platinum games's first big IP , they have gone on to build quite a strong reputation. I am sure some of their recent HnS like Rising and soon Automata will also perform better than Ninja Theorys games. Bayo 2 was also pretty obviously held back by the platform in terms of sales. It got much bigger acclaim than any NT game.
TheSadRanger
Banned
To be a devils advocate here. While there's no question that DMC4 has better combat.
I think it's more than a fair argument that DmC has more interesting and varied level design than DMC4.
DMC3 is my favorite in the series anyways and I've played every entry
edit: You guys are jinxing Platinum by bringing up sales lol. Scalebound just got cancelled and they released Nier (an extremely niche title) against Horizon and Zelda. Also Square put like zero marketing into this game for NA.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
But NT was good enough for Sony while Platinum wasn't good enough for Microsoft.
Heh heh heh heh heh............................................shit.
While I can give the slight edge in actual combat in regards to DmC:SE, the level design and environments are far better in DmC.
DMC4 falls apart a bit halfway through.
That being said, I want Nero in DMC5.
Ah you're right. I must have imagined Hellblade and it's not like the game that Kamiya was playing a role in got canceled. Must have imagined Scalebound too. :[
You really think Bayo 2 would have sold 2m if it was on the 360/PS3 instead of the WiiU? When the original couldn't even break that mark, ok dude.
Rising was released the same year as DmC. Do you have any sales data for it? The only one I could find was the Steam sales, and apparently DmC (Steam) outsold MGR (Steam). And Bayo 1 sold 1.1m as of 2010, I have hard time believing it hit at least 1.6m. Unless of course you have sort of source or link.
And the guy I quoted was talking Kamiya, didn't know Kamiya had a hand in MGR and Nier(I doubt this niche game will outsell DmC anyway).
Schopenhauerian
Member
It's always nice seeing Remember Me pop up in threads like ‘Lowest rated game that you have loved' and ‘Games You Loved And Found Out Later That They're Considered Bad?'
It's an interesting history:
DMC4's and DmC's campaigns are about the same for me. Both are full of obnoxious setpieces, mostly unengaging platforming sequences, bad pacing, poor encounter design, and some bad bosses (DmC has several bad to mediocre fights, and one absolutely shit boss in Mundus, compared to DMC4's Danger Room, Savior and base Sanctus fights. DMC4 five decent to great bosses, and the incredible Credo fight, one of the best bosses in gaming). Overall I dislike replaying both games. At least DmC allows easy replays of boss fights and secret missions, but outside of Vergil I don't care for any of the bosses. Maybe Hunter too, but he can't be easily replayed. Whoops!
The good parts of both games are the combat mechanics and minor details, the latter of which never gets any praise from anyone (except me, lol).
The good parts of both games are the combat mechanics and minor details, the latter of which never gets any praise from anyone (except me, lol).
They were trying to appeal to a new set of fans without completely compromising the old.
My point is that they're a company doing PR. They aren't held to the same standard of angry people on the internet, so it's irrelevant who started what.
They didn't want people to get angry, per se. But they were expecting a backlash. They completely underestimated the level of backlash they would get, they later admitted.
I fucking loved what Ninja Theory did with DmC, except for the shitty platforming sections. When I made fun of those, I came up w/ the term "Dante-Kazooie." Still proud of that one. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/01/dmc-review-cry-me-a-bloody-river/
This also kind of highlights the adversity between DMC fans, and the gaming press that attempted to marginalize a vocal "minority." The fans didn't matter because they were just a tiny opinionated and vitriolic group. And we know that a good number of team members at Ninja Theory, including Tameem, didn't even want to consider reviewing online fan feedback.
Once sales and consumer reception were middling and the vocal minority wasn't just a minority anymore, articles and reviews lambasted fans for not spending their hard earned money on something they didn't want. It was both sad and bizarre.
DmC had a lot of opportunities and advantages. A brand name backing, marketing in theaters and online, promotion in PSASBR, a complete lack of competition during its release month, almost simultaneous console and PC release (which was new for Capcom at the time). It was just something that people didn't really want. At least not pay full price for.
Waddle Dee
Member
Wasn't there one article from someone who completely went off their rocker and yelled at fans for "killing the reboot" or something?
Countless articles by the press trying to shame the DMC fanbase as the boogeymen who were poisoning public reception, and destroyed the brand out of spite. But yeah, these two in particular were embarrassing.
http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/15/dmc-devil-may-cry-fans-are-a-crying-shame/
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/capcom-almost-halves-dmc-sales-expectations/0110372
They didn't even stop to think that maybe there's more to it. And maybe their opinions are flawed and they hadn't considered the context of DmC, and the number of issues underneath their surface evaluation. The irony is that while the vg247 article chastises readers for falling into a conspiracy theory about how vg247 is corrupted, the writer is more than happy to sling insults and suggest that the fanbase was somehow able to manipulate the global sales and perception of the game in a similar conspiracy theory fashion.
Ah you're right. You did imagine Hellblade, since that hasn't even gotten a release date. Ninja Theory kept busy after DmC with such landmark titles as Disney Infinity and Disney Infinity. Their mastery of the industry has shamed Kamiya and Co, who have only produced around 7 titles since DmC released, 5 of which I can more than reasonably argue are better than DmC.