Poor GRIMES
Banned
Now sis I generally like what you contribute.
But think about what you just posted:
She was raped so hard she turned White. A literal huh?
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Ghost in the Shell's ending spurs new accusations of even worse whitewashing
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But think about what you just posted:
She was raped so hard she turned White. A literal huh?
Goddamn I feel like Asian characters have to look like this to actually be considered Asian by some people.
Not sure if you were trying to be funny but that picture edit is just in really bad taste and insulting.
But they wanted to have all the cool Asian text and imagery all over the city because it looked great in Blade Runner and the 1995 film. Even though Blade Runner was still set in LA. ¯\_(ツ
_/¯MugiwaraCole
Member
This situation with Ghost in the Shell's casting is outright racism, whether people are comfortable labeling it as such or not.
But there really were a ton of people who legit just didn't realize Rue was black. My black mother included. I pointed the line out to her in the first book (which she'd read), and she was surprised. That's what happens when all forms of media typically back white as the default race.
I know of someone who wrote a book with a black heroine. The covers that were submitted to them for it all featured a white woman. They had to fight to get that reversed.
I think now would be a good time to self-reflect on why your view on default race in anime is also insulting, because that pic was basically an illustration of the message it conveys.
Now I'm sure you're trolling. That joke basically coincides with your view. You see every character in Anime as western rather than Asian unless they're a different skin color or they do something drastic like that.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Well it's true.
When I was growing up I watched the Japanese version of Pokemon (because I'm half Japanese, and I lived in Japan when it came out). When I moved to the US all my friends argued that Satoshi (Ash for Americans) was white, and Brock was Asian "because his eyes".
So yeah.
MugiwaraCole
Member
You basically said you need anime characters to look like that to view them as Asian. So...yeah.
the film repeatedly has Major saying "I give my consent" to later being told
by the white doctors who built her that it never really mattered
The film treats her being placed into another body as a horrible thing forced on her, which it was. She doesn't like it and she feels alien and disconnected due to it.
But they wanted to have all the cool Asian text and imagery all over the city because it looked great in Blade Runner and the 1995 film. Even though Blade Runner was still set in LA. ¯\_(ツ
It's really, really unfortunate because apart from that annoying issue, the film is surprisingly competent and beautiful to look at. I'm pretty sure if they want they can insert a little bit of Asian influence in the city scape like in Fifth Element but the whole Japanese side of the film was dealt with in a strange way.
Having said that, I feel like this is less of outright racism but more like indifference/insensitivity/tone deaf on the part of the film maker in their attempt to chase the worldwide money. But that's the problem isn't it? I think the film will still work well with an Asian female lead in the role. And Scarlet wouldn't have to look so awkward in that final scene (you know what scene when you see it) lol.
I don't see how this makes the film itself racist, or is "even worse" than casting ScarJo in the first place.
I don't think you are meant to take the scientists' effusive praise of Motoko at face value. She isn't "perfect" or "the next stage of human evolution". She is a mostly an emotionless robot killing machine with no sense of identity. We aren't supposed to view her as superior, we are supposed to fear her as the natural extension of humanity's obsession with augmentation and science's obsession with playing god. She is no more a role model for us than Frankenstein's monster. You can feel empathy for her and be awed by her abilities, but I don't think there's anyone in the audience that would really want to trade places with her.
I don't think you are meant to take the scientists' effusive praise of Motoko at face value. She isn't "perfect" or "the next stage of human evolution". She is a mostly an emotionless robot killing machine with no sense of identity. We aren't supposed to view her as superior, we are supposed to fear her as the natural extension of humanity's obsession with augmentation and science's obsession with playing god. She is no more a role model for us than Frankenstein's monster. You can feel empathy for her and be awed by her abilities, but I don't think there's anyone in the audience that would really want to trade places with her.
DarthMasta
Member
Hollywood feels like there are no Asian actresses that could have played the lead and have the movie be a success, and they're probably right.
It's a Hollywood movie. Asians aren't going to go see it expecting anything other than an Hollywood movie, and Asia has a pretty big movie production, Asians can find themselves represented very easily, just go see a local movie.
It's Asian-Americans who are screwed.
Still, racial bending in story was dumb as hell...
It's a Hollywood movie. Asians aren't going to go see it expecting anything other than an Hollywood movie, and Asia has a pretty big movie production, Asians can find themselves represented very easily, just go see a local movie.
It's Asian-Americans who are screwed.
Still, racial bending in story was dumb as hell...
Why does it have to be such extremes with some of you? My message was in no way insinuating what that silly picture conveyed. For one, that doesn't look like Japanese eyes, it looks like a racist dipiction of Asian eyes. If you want to view me as a racist because, in my opinion, a lot of these anime characters look white to me, then that's on you. Doesn't mean I'm a racist though.
Exactly.
I think it's obvious that so many are reacting to the outline rather than actually seeing the film.
I think you saw something in the film that I and a lot of other people clearly missed. And you may be right, but the film ham-fisted it so much it was pretty much lost.
smileyforall220
Member
Goddamn I feel like Asian characters have to look like this to actually be considered Asian by some people.
Despite the fact that this is what "Asian" looks like:
You should post some pictures of characters in anime that read as Asian and White to you to illustrate your point. Otherwise people will interpret what you're saying for themselves and may take it to extremes.
BronsonLee
Member
I'm 100% with anaron on this
They really play on the fact that Major doesn't feel like herself because they stole her identity
MugiwaraCole
Member
Your opinion is harmful. Extremely harmful. For reasons explained above. Now would be a good time to self-reflect.
One thing that really annoys me about the film is how they're so scared of the film feeling too Japanese, that they didn't use the shelling sequence song and instead replace it with some random bg music. FFS, if there's one sequence that'd be perfectly captured with that song, it'd be that scene. The Japanese influence is all over the film anyway so why not go all the way through with it?
Unless you want to bring an example such as an image of who you view as Asian and white in anime, I'm just gonna take your posts at face value what it looks like
No, I don't think your views are intentionally racist, but as my previous post mentioned, that's what your opinion comes across as, and it does cross into possible racism. That's why I suggested it was a good opportunity to self-reflect.
On the other hand, if anime characters don't come across as Asian unless they have smaller eyes, you could show a picture of an anime character that does come across as Asian to you to show what you mean?
I feel like the Japanese = thin eyes thing is rooted more in stereotypes than reality.
The cast of Friends:
The cast of of Zyuohger:
Of course there are common physical attributes to the eyes, like caucasian eyes being blockier while Asian ones are more round/almond, but it's not like America cinema lacks its fare share of its prominent natural squinters.
But still there's this widely prevalent idea of West = big eye, East = small eye. It just doesn't jive with reality, so I assume it must be little more than a stereotype.
The cast of Friends:
The cast of of Zyuohger:
Of course there are common physical attributes to the eyes, like caucasian eyes being blockier while Asian ones are more round/almond, but it's not like America cinema lacks its fare share of its prominent natural squinters.
But still there's this widely prevalent idea of West = big eye, East = small eye. It just doesn't jive with reality, so I assume it must be little more than a stereotype.
UnemployedVillain
Member
It's actually incredible how far over your head his point went. Like, I'm actually legit shocked
I agree with the sentiment, but in the case of Oshii's film which is drawn with a far more realistic styling, it's fairly easy to assume his Major is white. Many of the characters look distinctly Asian except for her and the Puppetmaster which are both the same mass produced robotic body.
MHWilliams
Member
They've statistically crunched the numbers. Star power doesn't really do much of anything. Pick a star, I'll show you a bomb.
From the article I previously posted:
http://www.economist.com/news/busin...bank-pulling-power-famous-actors-fading-stars
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/box-office-how-star-power-840328
http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...matter-25-franchises-20160616-snap-story.html
On the Rock, he didn't make Fast Five. Fast Five made the Rock; that was the beginning of his rise. Look at the films before Fast Five and the films after. Or do you consider Faster, Gridiron Gang, Doom, and Walking Tall to be the height of cinema?
Lucy is an easy sell of an action film, with a strong premise. GITS is not. That's why one opened to $43 million and went on to do $463 million worldwide, and the other will open to $20 million.
Brand before star. Do you wonder why actors jump on to do Marvel, DC, and Star Wars films. That's why.
Yeah I don't get it either. Especially because the song was clearly remixed by Kawaii to fit the new shelling sequence and it was so much better.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Dude these were all Asian people to me growing up, because they are (yes I know Goku was retconned into an Alien).
Tell me about their eyes and how they don't look "Asian enough" for you tho.
I saw his point and wanted to distance myself as far away from it as possible because it's overtly racist. I don't think my opinion is racist, hence wanting to distance myself from it.
And people asking me to post a picture from an anime that I find looks more Asian to me than western, I can't actually think of one right now but if I do I'll post for sure.
Why eyes are big in manga/anime
Masaki Yuki, a behavioral scientist at Hokkaido University in Japan
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Japa...-Eyes-the-Americans-by-Your-Mouth-54495.shtml
Hallowed is the typical example of people who has ingrained that asian = thin eyes
Masaki Yuki, a behavioral scientist at Hokkaido University in Japan
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Japa...-Eyes-the-Americans-by-Your-Mouth-54495.shtml
PAPER : https://lynx.let.hokudai.ac.jp/~myuki/paper/Face paper JESP in press.pdfThe culture we belong to dictates each and every of our gestures. Also, a real cultural abyss has been revealed in the way we appreciate facial expressions amongst cultures. "For instance, in Japan, people tend to look to the eyes for emotional cues, whereas Americans tend to look to the mouth," said researcher Masaki Yuki, a behavioral scientist at Hokkaido University in Japan.
"This could be because the Japanese, when in the presence of others, try to suppress their emotions more than Americans do. In any case, the eyes are more difficult to control than the mouth, so they probably provide better clues about a person's emotional state even if he or she is trying to hide it", explained Yuki.
Emoticons were the clue
(^_^) (;_
vs
BINGO
Hallowed is the typical example of people who has ingrained that asian = thin eyes
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Goku is a monkey boy with a monkey tail. Last I checked Asians don't have tails.
kitchenmotors
Banned
I'm not sure I ever saw the Major as white,
but the body she is put into following the events of the first film and the sequel, I felt certain was a white child.
It didn't really matter what body she was put into, race or sex, because she was so far from human at that point. Trying to figure out her identity and where she belonged was a focal point. I feel like the 2017 movie tries to take it a step further and give her back story and indentity more substance, in which she was stripped of against her will.
The movie is on track for a 20 million dollar opening weekend which will set it in third or fourth place.
Apparently casting a white woman didn't make the movie a success either soooo....
UnemployedVillain
Member
Which makes it all the more surprising people thought the Major wasn't Japanese
considering she's incredible math
Why do I feel like some people are taking my opinion as a personal attack on them or something? Sorry but those examples you posted don't look like Asian people to me either if we are looking at the face.
Again, we need to make a distinction here. I'm not saying they aren't Asian if that's the intended goal of the creators. All I'm saying is that to me, it's stylised yes, but does not look like Japanese people to me at all.
DarthMasta
Member
Exactly. Even excluding Western and South Asia, not all Asians have small eyes. The Epicanthic fold is what gives most East and South East Asians their distinctive eyes, but that doesn't necessarily make them small.
I think Big Hero 6 handled that very well in that the Asian characters were clearly Asian but they weren't stereotyped with thin eyes.
Kubo and the Two Strings, on the other hand, was weird - all the villagers had tiny eyes to say "this is set in Asia" or something but then they gave Kubo much larger eyes to be different to everyone else.
You're unaware of the reactions to Rue over twitter then, because... that shit was uncontrollable
smileyforall220
Member
To be fair, anime characters with the triangle nose and chin with giant eyes just look like weird stylized monsters. I think the ethnicity of most animes is whatever you read into on a personal level unless the plot says specifically that they are something specific. They act almost like hollow vessels, similar to how sonic is a character but has no specific ethnicity, but still portrays all the traits of a human being.
Post a photo of what a japanese person in anime looks like to you.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Well the Simpsons look like monsters with their eyeballs sticking out of their faces, but no one I know assumes they're anything but white.
You're not trying to be racist, but you're being racist. That's why people keep suggesting you take this time to self reflect.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Nah, I seent it. Just saying it was a little more nuanced than that. Though, honestly, the only reason it was even a thing, even with my mother, is because of racism, so...yeah.
Damn. Gives you a lot to think about, really.
DarthMasta
Member
They look like white people to you, but they'll look Japanese to a Japanese person, short of using very obvious, possibly offensive identifiers to make it very obvious just what race the character is supposed to be.
Something i was talking about some friends with, and wanted to get some opinions.
Is it whitewashing if the movie in question is a complete remake? or how much of the original movie has to be changed before it is considered whitewashing for changing the characters?
It is something i am genuinely curious about.
Is it whitewashing if the movie in question is a complete remake? or how much of the original movie has to be changed before it is considered whitewashing for changing the characters?
It is something i am genuinely curious about.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Weird stylized monsters that are meant to portray that specific culture's default. If you draw a stick figure in America it will be seen as a White man, unless you draw a skirt on it, then it's a White woman. The Japanese drew Goku, Light, etc. with the specific intention of allowing the intended Japanese audience to self-insert themselves into the characters interacting with environments and fantasy cultures that were heavily influenced by their own, real-world Japanese culture.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Scarlet Johansson is an unbelievably bad actor, but her looks made her acting "abilities" a moot point
I can't think of any movie she's been in where she wasn't horrible, but she continues to get any role she wants
Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent, from the golden era of animated superhero cartoons.
And yet.
Obviously Caucasian, as you can see from her very large Caucasian eyes, as Caucasians are known to have.
Nobody could mistake either of these characters for Asian, despite their extremely thin eyes.
And yet.
Obviously Caucasian, as you can see from her very large Caucasian eyes, as Caucasians are known to have.
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