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Zaptruder · May 9, 2006

D3VI0US said:
Hey numbnuts value is percieved by the individual based on their needs and wants. Guess what I don't need wifi and I don't want to pay for it out of the box yet. Guess what else I'm not paying for a HD-DVD add on but I'll take a Blu Ray drive standard but not if it's gonna drive up costs like it is cause I don't care about HD movies. Sony has a bunch of stuff in their box that people won't use, why should they pay for it, how can you defend that?

It's like the person who made the comparison to a 60GB ipod but how many people need 60GB ipods? It's the best value does that mean I should spend all that extra dough just to get that largely unneccessary space? Give it up, Sony fucked up bigtime they should know better.

An angry xbot still on the PS3 = console wavelength.

If the PS3 fails, it will be more because they couldn't bridge the mental gap in the masses, between the idea of a console and a home entertainment hub then it would be because the PS3 was undervalued or because it lacked features.

puck1337 · May 9, 2006

It's not that $600 isn't a reasonable price for this sort of tech. It really is a reasonable price, maybe even an amazing price. And I don't think that people are still thinking of it as a console, or at least they won't for be long.

It's that $600 is a lot of money for most people, period.

Zombie James · May 9, 2006

I'll still be buying one, i'll just be waiting a little bit longer. No big deal.

PhatSaqs · May 9, 2006

The majority of people will buy this thing as a game console. And as a game console it's way too fuckin much IMO.

D3VI0US · May 9, 2006

Zaptruder said:
An angry xbot still on the PS3 = console wavelength.

If the PS3 fails, it will be more because they couldn't bridge the mental gap in the masses, between the idea of a console and a home entertainment hub then it would be because the PS3 was undervalued or because it lacked features.

Or maybe cause it's packed with features and tech no one wants to pay for cause they don't need or use them. What exactly makes it more of a entertainment hub other than Blu Ray when compared to 360?

I'll tell you one feature I will use is hooking up my ipod to my 360, I'll also use Live features to block idiots and steamline my online experience and compare achievements with friends. For me so far as a gamer the 360 has a more useful feature set but I'm not in the market for a entertainment hub, I'm in the market for a console.

acousticvan · May 9, 2006

Breakdown price for XBOX360
Premium pack $399
5 Years of online service $250
Wifi $ 80
HD-DVD $100

Total $829

Versus $599 for PS3 with HDMI and gyros controller

Do the math.

soundwave05 · May 9, 2006

I have my doubts that Sony's online service will be free forever.

If it is indeed free, then MS basically has no choice but to match.

Krowley · May 9, 2006

do 600 dollar entertainment hubs sell as well as 400 dollar consoles? I'm honestly not sure since i know nothing about the entertainment hub market.

Deg · May 9, 2006

acousticvan said:
Breakdown price for XBOX360
Premium pack $399
5 Years of online service $250
Wifi $ 80
HD-DVD $100

Total $829

Versus $599 for PS3 with HDMI and gyros controller

Do the math.

bigger HDD, better graphics etc.

It's that $600 is a lot of money for most people, period.

Ofcourse it is. I dont think your average PS2 buyer will buy a PS3 yet.

knitoe · May 9, 2006

Premium pack $399 <= check
5 Years of online service $250 <= $0, Silver user. We don't even know Sony's online price strategy.
Wifi $ 80 <= $0, ethernet cable
HD-DVD $100 <= $0, never use any consoles for movie playback. They sux for that purpose.

Total $829 <= $399

Versus $599 for PS3 with HDMI and gyros controller vs $399

Anyway, companies need to weigth features vs price. For media center, features > price, but for consoles (toy), price > features. Sony really back themself into a corner by including a blu ray drive. That's probably costing them a pretty penny. W/o it, they could easy launch at X360 prices. Sorry, but Sony won't win by being #1 in "media center hub" market. They need to win in the "console" market. 3DOish price will definitely hurt them dearly.

GuessWho · May 9, 2006

acousticvan said:
Breakdown price for XBOX360
Premium pack $399
5 Years of online service $250
Wifi $ 80
HD-DVD $100

Total $829

Versus $599 for PS3 with HDMI and gyros controller

Do the math.

wrong
Premium Pack $399
total $399
THATS IT the rest are all extras.

so $599 ps3(hdmi) versus $399(component), yes ps3 has better tech, but is it $200 extra worth? maybe. But for $399 you can relativly get the same games.

YourMaster · May 9, 2006

600$ (or 600) is nothing for a supercomputer with tilt sensors.

MightyHedgehog · May 9, 2006

acousticvan said:
Breakdown price for XBOX360
Premium pack $399
5 Years of online service $250
Wifi $ 80
HD-DVD $100

Total $829

Versus $599 for PS3 with HDMI and gyros controller

Do the math.

Someone just told me to tell you that you'll probably need to adjust some figures.

bengraven · May 9, 2006

I HAVE AN IDEA!

Click on the "Get your FREE PS3! Click here!" ads!

tahrikmili · May 9, 2006

YourMaster said:
600$ (or 600) is nothing for a supercomputer with tilt sensors.

I hear North Korea will import a batch of 10,000 PS3s for Christmas..

Zaptruder · May 9, 2006

D3VI0US said:
Or maybe cause it's packed with features and tech no one wants to pay for cause they don't need or use them. What exactly makes it more of a entertainment hub other than Blu Ray when compared to 360?

I'll tell you one feature I will use is hooking up my ipod to my 360, I'll also use Live features to block idiots and steamline my online experience and compare achievements with friends. For me so far as a gamer the 360 has a more useful feature set but I'm not in the market for a entertainment hub, I'm in the market for a console.

Blu ray, Linux, streaming video from computers and network drives.

On top of that, a more fully featured online network strategy (if the singstar stuff is any indication); most likely with itunes like store downloads.

Of course a lot of it hasn't been hard confirmed yet, but we'll have to see what happens. I could see my opinion changing depending on what features are announced definetly.

Zaptruder · May 9, 2006

D3VI0US said:
Or maybe cause it's packed with features and tech no one wants to pay for cause they don't need or use them. What exactly makes it more of a entertainment hub other than Blu Ray when compared to 360?

I'll tell you one feature I will use is hooking up my ipod to my 360, I'll also use Live features to block idiots and steamline my online experience and compare achievements with friends. For me so far as a gamer the 360 has a more useful feature set but I'm not in the market for a entertainment hub, I'm in the market for a console.

Then don't buy the PS3. I think they'd be seriously short changing themselves and everyone in the long term if they were to do a PS2/PSX (the media hub) type split again. The whole idea is to integrate all entertainment functions (except for maybe PVR, but then if Linux is there and USB ports are there, plug in a HDTV USB adaptor and it'll be running off the PS3!) into one cohesive experience.

If you enjoyed the PS2 this generation, more than likely you'll come around in time to the entertainment hub thinking, even if it means accepting it after you buy the PS3 as a console.

DaCocoBrova · May 9, 2006

I was all set to stick it to the man and not buy a PS3 at launch or anywhere near...

Dammit VF5!!!!!1 I need you.

Lord Error · May 9, 2006

mrklaw said:
I think losing the HDMI is fucked up. They should have kept HDMI but disabled bluray playback, then charged for a bluray kit like they did with the DVD playback originally.

people don't understand HDMI, so may buy the 'tard pack' oblivious to what that will mean. Then if they want to buy bluray movies they suddenly have a useless brick in front of them.

I think it's unlikely at this point that any movie will actually use HDCP, either on BD or HDDVD (I know none uses it right now). So even those with tard pack will be able to watch BD movies in 1080i just fine.

I'm a bit torn on the price $600 is not that much for what I will get out of it, but I dunno how Joe average will accept even $500. Then again seing people literally fight each other over $400 X360, makes you think...

urk · May 9, 2006

Zaptruder said:
For the X360 to match the PS3 features the consumer will be spending (at launch prices for all items)

400$ USD for the console... say an additional 120$ for a future 40gb HDD, 100$ for a HDDVD drive and 80$ for the wifi adaptor, and the cost comes upto $700.

If you don't have it, then you might need to include the cost of MCE2005 and MCE remote at the very least... approximately $250. That's for the computer to get the MCX functionality going on. Oh well, at least someone's released a transcoder for it.

$700-950 depending on what you don't have.

Any Xbot that criticizes the PS3's pricepoint and turns around to defend the lack of features included in the X360 and somehow try to rationalize that it's not a bad deal when its all added up amounts to little more than a hypocrite.

Unfortunately, I'll be one of those people reamed by the X360's lack of features as I lack the patience for the PS3; paying for the aforementioned items.

There is a pricepoint that most consumers will not go beyond. Think Neo Geo. The hardware is clearly better in most respects, the question is whether or not a large number of consumers can and will pay $500-$600 for a gaming system.

Prospero · May 9, 2006

If I were certain that Blu-Ray would be a long-term viable platform for high-definition movies, and that the PS3 would provide the same functionality as a dedicated Blu-Ray player, then I might not have trouble paying $600 for the console (I'd rationalize it as $300 for the gaming console plus $300 for the player).

As it is, though, that's still up in the air--Blu-Ray might conceivably go the way of Betamax and, arguably, UMD. Which is why I'm not entirely sure who Sony is trying to sell this machine to, other than fanatical brand loyalists and the most incautious early adopters.

Zamorro · May 9, 2006

One quick question. Is playing online on the PS3 actually free?

He seemed to carefully avoid this issue in his speech. This is from the excerpt from Gamespot:

Kaz Hirai is back out to talk about the online strategy. He says online and network will be like air conditioning in a car: a standard feature. He says online and networking for the PS3 "is as essential as the air that we breathe." He says by offering a variety of social functionalities beyond gaming (messaging, player profiles, friends list), Sony will create a community, a "virtual society," free of charge.

He is talking about the functionality "beyond gaming" being free. So actual gaming is not free ? Am I reading too much in his wording ?

Musashi Wins! · May 9, 2006

Prospero said:
If I were certain that Blu-Ray would be a long-term viable platform for high-definition movies, and that the PS3 would provide the same functionality as a dedicated Blu-Ray player, then I might not have trouble paying $600 for the console (I'd rationalize it as $300 for the gaming console plus $300 for the player).

As it is, though, that's still up in the air--Blu-Ray might conceivably go the way of Betamax and, arguably, UMD. Which is why I'm not entirely sure who Sony is trying to sell this machine to, other than fanatical brand loyalists and the most incautious early adopters.

Exactly my thoughts. But I believe in those incautious. And this thread is a repulsive example of the fanatics. Hopefully they fail miserably.

Beer Monkey · May 9, 2006

For the same price I can build an actual media center PC that will play DivX and all the other stuff that Sony won't allow. PS3 will have the media formats locked down tight, like the PSP, so who gives a shit? HTPC is a better way for the media crowd and before long will be playing HD-DVD and Blu-Ray from the same box.

D3VI0US · May 9, 2006

Zaptruder said:
Blu ray, Linux, streaming video from computers and network drives.

On top of that, a more fully featured online network strategy (if the singstar stuff is any indication); most likely with itunes like store downloads.

Of course a lot of it hasn't been hard confirmed yet, but we'll have to see what happens. I could see my opinion changing depending on what features are announced definetly.

So I'll ask again what does the PS3 do that the 360 doesn't do other than Blu Ray? You don't even know the details of the streaming, Linux, or the online plan, but you sure are quick to draw stupid comparisons to itunes and declare it more fully featured while not knowing any of the fucking features and you call me a fanboy. I'm not hating on the PS3, it's fucking expensive, it's more than I want to pay for shit I don't want to pay for and gaming gets a good chunk of my disposable income so if I think it's expensive the general public is gonna tell Sony to go fuck off regardless of what horrible arguments chumps like you can come up with.

WYWY · May 9, 2006

beermonkey@tehbias said:
For the same price I can build an actual media center PC
.....
HTPC is a better way for the media crowd and before long will be playing HD-DVD and Blu-Ray from the same box.

I'm not commenting on anything PS3 related here, but only on the supposed price for a next-gen HTPC.

I've been monitoring the prices for PC-based next-gen media drives for a while. They are all writable drives, and the cheapest one I can recall is north of 700 euro. Yes, that price for one PC-based drive only.

http://www.akihabaranews.com/ has a good habit of posting price information for these things as they become available.

Zaptruder · May 9, 2006

For the same price I can build an actual media center PC that will play DivX and all the other stuff that Sony won't allow. PS3 will have the media formats locked down tight, like the PSP, so who gives a shit? HTPC is a better way for the media crowd and before long will be playing HD-DVD and Blu-Ray from the same box.

To build a fast HTPC that can play games well and have a BR drive and that's got full HDCP compatibility, you'll have to spend some 2.5k at least, and wait until some time next year. Nice try though.

So I'll ask again what does the PS3 do that the 360 doesn't do other than Blu Ray?

Kindly back off the vitriol you bitter fuck. Sure the 360 will be able to do all the PS3 does, as long as you have the appropriate extras (MCE, Wifi, live gold). I've listed the extras and you end up paying more for less. Are you suggesting to me that the X360 is good value if you want to use all of the functions that you'd want to use on the PS3?

Like I've said, and the whole point of the thread, it's to stop thinking of the PS3 as just a console. It's a media/entertainment hub. Something the X360 can be yeah, but only if you shell out extra for the appropriate functionalities.
As the thread title says. Playstation the console is dead. Long live Playstation the entertainment hub.

Beer Monkey · May 9, 2006

WYWY said:
I've been monitoring the prices for PC-based next-gen media drives for a while. They are all writable drives, and the cheapest one I can recall is north of 700 euro. Yes, that price for one PC-based drive only.

PC drives come down in price very quickly, faster than game consoles. Add them in down the road once there's actually a decent software library for the new formats. The fact is that the PS3 is gimped up and will play Blu-Ray and MP4 but won't play HD-DVD and DivX. If you want a media center why constrain yourself? It's a lousy media center when compared to the alternatives (ditto for 360...media only via streaming and realtime re-encoding doesn't cut it).

360 and PS3 are shit media centers, bottom line.

If you want to pay $700 for a PS3 and one game and tax, because it is a great gaming system and a half-assed media center, go right ahead, but don't pretend that the media center is part of the value of the system. I guess it is if you have lousy standards.

thetrin · May 9, 2006

soundwave05 said:
Tekken, Metal Gear Solid, and Virtua Fighter aren't million sellers in North America any longer and even Final Fantasy is showing decline in Japan.

Depending on the region you live in, those titles can make or break a console. As it stands, those titles make Sony, and break MS in Japan.

Zaptruder · May 9, 2006

beermonkey@tehbias said:
PC drives come down in price very quickly, faster than game consoles. Add them in down the road once there's actually a decent software library for the new formats. The fact is that the PS3 is gimped up and will play Blu-Ray and MP4 but won't play HD-DVD and DivX. If you want a media center why constrain yourself? It's a lousy media center when compared to the alternatives (ditto for 360...media only via streaming and realtime re-encoding doesn't cut it).

A good PC that can do all that and look good as a piece of AV equipment is expensive. There's no denying it. Graphics cards, PPUs, cool/silent cases, wtf.

And you're assuming that it will lock out DivX as heavily as I'm assuming the presence of linux and the itunes like store. Both drawn from logical inferences but at odds with each other.

Given your scenario, I'd find the PS3 difficult to swallow too. Given my situation, it's excellent value. We'll have to see how Sony plays its cards. If it understands that it's put itself into a difficult spot with the pricing, it will have to do some worthwhile value adding if its to maintain market share...

WYWY · May 9, 2006

beermonkey@tehbias said:
PC drives come down in price very quickly, faster than game consoles.

I agree and disagree. Eventually they'll be affordable. But I doubt anyone can construct a HTPC that has a competitive price against a X360 + HD-DVD addon or a PS3 within the first two years.

WYWY · May 9, 2006

Might as well chime in with my decision on the thing...

I'll wait till there are must-get games that interest me before thinking of purchasing. Hopefully the unit would have undergone a price cut by then.

Pop'n Music or a new SRW with a new roster will make me do it... (^ ^)

Ceb · May 9, 2006

knitoe said:
$599 for PS3 with HDMI and gyros controller vs $399

$499, since you're not after the extra movie playback capabilities.

Beer Monkey · May 9, 2006

Zaptruder said:
Given your scenario, I'd find the PS3 difficult to swallow too. Given my situation, it's excellent value.

It definitely depends on each individual's needs. For me, the media center functionality of the PS3 is no substitute for what I want. For some it may be great. Unfortunately, for those who aren't interested in that functionality, there's less total value in the system to justify the $600 price.

Ignatz Mouse · May 9, 2006

Ghost said:
I dont think anyone would argue that whats in the box isnt worth $600, the problem for a lot of people will be that the bits they want to use arent.

Ding! That's me.

I would love to get a budget Blu-Ray player as a bonus, but it's not worth it to me. I'd gladly give that up is it were in line with 360 in price, or even pay a $100 premium for it. But $200 over the 360? No chance.

I'll get a 360 and a PS3 later, if I must. Sony just made me an Xbot. Those who know me going way back will know this is no minor deal. What hurts is the games. I love many Sony exclusives. But with my game-playing at an ebb already, I am not going to spend $600 on a system that I play only casually.

Son of Godzilla · May 9, 2006

Zaptruder said:
If the PS3 fails, it will be more because they couldn't bridge the mental gap in the masses, between the idea of a console and a home entertainment hub then it would be because the PS3 was undervalued or because it lacked features.

Or because the desire for said value doesn't exist. $500 buy in is stupid. End of discussion.

It should of had more structured packages to get it cheaper, but there's not much left to exclude without causing serious detriment. Blu-Ray playback is about it, and I liked whoever's idea about releasing an add on for it similar to xbox.

robot · May 9, 2006

MutFox said:
$600 isn't that much for what you get when you think about it...
Think of how much a 60GB iPod Video costs, and what you get...
Exactly.

um...comparing the PS3 to a video ipod? I thought that's what PSP was for?

Zaptruder · May 9, 2006

Son of Godzilla said:
Or because the desire for said value doesn't exist. $500 buy in is stupid. End of discussion.

It should of had more structured packages to get it cheaper, but there's not much left to exclude without causing serious detriment. Blu-Ray playback is about it, and I liked whoever's idea about releasing an add on for it similar to xbox.

It might seem like a bad decision now, but I think in about 3 years, where the console wars will have a pretty firm leader in place (and more importantly a demand for HD everything), it will seem like a much better decision.

But honestly, ask yourself, if the BRD had been dropped and the PS3 released at $400 USD... what would've had a bigger negative reaction?

Son of Godzilla · May 9, 2006

Oh I don't mean dropping BRD, more like something along the lines of the Xbox DVD playback thing. Granted that probably wouldn't do much to allow a lower price, but there really isn't much else that could be cut.

Phoenix · May 9, 2006

What , you aren't "3Tarded"?

Smokey · May 9, 2006

Most casuals don't have a clue as to what HDMI is, and could care less about Blu-Ray. Contrary to how it may seem, forum members on the internet are not the MASSESS. People hook up 360's through RF adapters for Christ sakes.

After waking up this morning and thinking about it, I think maybe Sony is in a good postion w/ the CASUALS. Casuals don't want Blu-ray and most likely don't have the TV to support it anyway so why would they care about it? Hell walking into the store, they probably wouldn't even notice the diff between the 2 packages minus the HD unless somebody told them.

GAF seems to have this interpretation that the console is $600. To US it may be that price, but to everybody else it's $499. Yeah it's still expensive, and I don't really wanna pay for the premium version, but like I said I'm not a casual.

Casuals will eat this thing up come Christmas time, while at the same time leaving plenty of $600 SKU's for the hardcore.

Zaptruder · May 9, 2006

Smokey Bones said:
Most casuals don't have a clue as to what HDMI is, and could care less about Blu-Ray. Contrary to how it may seem, forum members on the internet are not the MASSESS. People hook up 360's through RF adapters for Christ sakes.

After waking up this morning and thinking about it, I think maybe Sony is in a good postion w/ the CASUALS. Casuals don't want Blu-ray and most likely don't have the TV to support it anyway so why would they care about it? Hell walking into the store, they probably wouldn't even notice the diff between the 2 packages minus the HD unless somebody told them.

GAF seems to have this interpretation that the console is $600. To US it may be that price, but to everybody else it's $499. Yeah it's still expensive, and I don't really wanna pay for the premium version, but like I said I'm not a casual.

Casuals will eat this thing up come Christmas time, while at the same time leaving plenty of $600 SKU's for the hardcore.

I think you're underestimating the number of hardcore, Sony fanatics and loaded people there are out there. The premium pack will be a popular option for all early adopters.

Smokey · May 9, 2006

Zaptruder said:
I think you're underestimating the number of hardcore, Sony fanatics and loaded people there are out there. The premium pack will be a popular option for all early adopters.

I wouldn't say underestimating. I'm talking about for Sony's main audience which is the 18-24 age group, most of them don't and won't have a clue about Blu-Ray. Most probably won't even care.

Speevy · May 9, 2006

*remembers video gamers fondly*

Zaptruder · May 9, 2006

Smokey Bones said:
I wouldn't say underestimating. I'm talking about for Sony's main audience which is the 18-24 age group, most of them don't and won't have a clue about Blu-Ray. Most probably won't even care.

The poor ass casual fans won't be the first ones to pick it up. I think it's a pretty moot point given the PS install base and the percentage of rich/hardcore/sony fans compared to the number of units available (2mill to 6 mill). You'll see a drop as you get to the 6 mill mark I don't doubt it, but then another resurgence when a price drop occurs later in next year.

Smokey · May 9, 2006

Bah enough talking about Sony for now, they've had their 6 seconds..

..time for the Big N!

Matt_C · May 9, 2006

Joe said:
(stole that from someone, dont remember who)

Apocalypse Now from Kilgore, who was played by Robert Duvall.

HocusPocus · May 9, 2006

I love the rationalization here. Sorry it's just too high, and they should have dropped some features / tech to make it affordable. Bottom line end of discussion.

TJ Bennett · May 9, 2006

BluRay is going to kill Sony. Theres no way to defend this pricepoint.

The Take Out Bandit · May 9, 2006

I have no doubt any of you would pick up a PS3 for 600 dollars RIGHT NOW if you could; even if you won't be able to resell it, you'd pick it up just for bragging rights.

What kind of idiot spends $600 for bragging rights?!

This does not compute.

*looks outside and sees numerous tools driving around in overpriced leased automobiles. . .

Okay, nevermind.

Im still waiting to be impressed. Wheres my Bladestorm screen shots and video?!

Nothing shown at the press conference wowed me. Heavenly Sword, Eight Days, and the Eyetoy demonstration were neat but theyre all unproven commodities or wanking tech demo software.

There are too many unknowns to justify blowing $600 on next gen gaming, especially when what Im seeing isnt a marked improvement over the Xbox2. :\

I could be proven wrong come November, but Im not counting on it.

Sony and company need to step up their game to justify this price point. The HD-Era is a useless era.

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