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Pokemon Black & White 2 Super Music Complete details revealed!

XeroSauce

XeroSauce

Member
I am all for B/W music as it was great, but Fire Red will always trump it because I spent way too much time on that game, something like 2000 hours.

I'm glad they are including HG/SS as well though.
 
S

Slamtastic

Member
SuperAngelo64 said:
When I take off my nostalgia shades I always realize that Gen 1 has the worst soundtrack in the series.
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f9b754e1ee33d3692eecffc832f75f15.jpg
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
Sgt.Pepper said:
those tracks look ridiculously short. =/
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Don't expect better from this given its like 170+ tracks on 4 CDs.

This is why I'd love to have a digital download option as then the tracks could be made longer (what would actually happen if there was a download option is it would cost more and not do that...oh and be iTunes Japan only or something).
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Dragoon En Regalia said:
Yeah: let's just copy musical styles from other key JRPG franchises whole-sale, that's a great way to improve the Pokemon musical style!

Ichinose and Sato have formed their own Pokemon-exclusive styles that work really-well, anyway.
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Nothing wrong with taking inspiration from other soundtracks. It's the combination of Layton and Pokémon styles that makes that track so good.

Pokémon is not some untouchable musical masterpiece. As much as I love the soundtracks, I'd welcome suitable inspiration such as can be seen in the Route 10 track.

As well as full orchestration, of course.
 
D

Dragoon En Regalia

Member
Not saying they shouldn't be taking notes, but Kageyama gives off copycat feelings all the time, and he still feels the most out-of-place on the soundtrack. Compare Accumula Town's music to, say, the music for Nacrene: the former has two frakkin' sections of melodic development, whereas the latter has three or four, tied in with downtime and more interesting arrangement (especially for the context it plays in). If you're going to play off of inspirations, do so with more confidence and contextualization—more interesting that way.

Though Kageyama's quite versatile, he's still got a lot to learn before measuring up to the best work from Masuda, Ichinose, and Sato. Drill Dozer alone makes Ichinose the god of hyper-active contrasts and crazy platformer game music. Kageyama's going to need his own individual effort to beat that!

We're going to keep getting better samples with Kageyama, though, so no one can hold that against him. His specialty really lies in audio engineering, going by his profile and list of accolades.
 
E

Electivirus

Member
I know next to nothing about music, but I do know that Kageyama was easily my favorite composer from B/W and HG/SS."Surfing (B/W), Ending (B/W), Relic Castle, Skyarrow Bridge, Battle! Entei, Battle! Team Rocket, Unwavering Emotions, etc. The list goes on and on.
 
D

Dragoon En Regalia

Member
So I was trying to start up a cool conversation about the new album over at VGMdb (which is such a dull place without any actual game music discussion, though it's mainly meant to be database—well, at least until every other game music forum on the planet is either dead or dour!). Then someone tried to tell me that Kageyama would be a better fit for music/sound director than Ichinose.

Remember: this is Black 2 and White 2, not a different game. I think changing sound director may cause inconsistency with what Unova was in BW, hence my choice of Kageyama as sound director. Just to keep the same mood.
Also, I think Kageyama made a wonderful job in leading BW. The region was too different from the others to have the same style of music; something like Route 10 would likely have been rejected if it wasn't for him.
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Then I realized I'd gone mad with insight.

That, and Ichinose's got both experience and enough ambition to constantly challenge what Pokemon music can sound like. I'd rather have a real risk-taker than a safer director like Kageyama, anyway. Ichinose's greatest achievement in Pokemon music history was subtle enough to hide itself, but is rather influential in its own way. For G/S and the other games onward, Ichinose focused on making the soundtrack progression and relationships (as in quantity of story-focused tracks in relation to more general-context BGM) more flexible and adaptable to the shape of the story progression itself, often working together with a general focus on a champion-based plot progression to allow for more room for Ichinose, Masuda, and Sato to experiment with new ideas and switch roles for any given set series of material. Both Masuda and Kageyama have a stricter, more story-based approach that works well when the story emphasis is less on the broad goal of becoming the new Pokemon League Champion in a given region, but on other areas of interest like the dynamic between Red and Blue as bitter rivals (a subversive, utterly-intriguing example of progression-based storytelling), or perhaps the rise and fall of Team Plasma (which itself is new for the series, and also a mirror image of the conflict between Red and Team Rocket in the original games that B/W tried to copy). Interesting stuff I just realized!
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In short: Ichinose is a really-good director who, for the kind of story-loose Pokemon installments he'd been working on up until B/W, knew exactly how to handle the sound direction overall. And, since B2/W2 is looking to be a looser sequel to B/W (with far-less melodrama and a sunnier, more conventional plot-line), he'd be the best choice possible. We shall see whether that's actually going to be the case, of course, but I thought this was an interesting point to make. I might just make an article about it later.
3AQmK.gif
 
C

ColtraineGF

Member
Jumping on it when it comes out. Loved most of the tracks I heard on the first Super Complete, so I hope BW2 comes with some heavy hitters.
 
D

Dragoon En Regalia

Member
Hell yeah. I thought I was the only one here so hyped up about his work for each game he's done music for. Drill Dozer's still his best single soundtrack, and I think it's a solo effort too (because al that Nohara's contributed musically, to any Game Freak soundtrack, are a couple of jingles).
 
S

sfried

Member
Dragoon En Regalia said:
Hell yeah. I thought I was the only one here so hyped up about his work for each game he's done music for. Drill Dozer's still his best single soundtrack, and I think it's a solo effort too (because al that Nohara's contributed musically, to any Game Freak soundtrack, are a couple of jingles).
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While we're at it, might as well post these too because more people need to hear it/realize this game exists along with Pulseman:
Skullker Factory and Klink Prison (Main Theme)
Art Museum
Kuru Ruins (You swear this is a Team anthem of some sort)
Underwater
Area Clear jingle
Map Screen and Training Course (My favorite of the bunch)

Say, they never released a formal soundtrack for Drill Dozer, have they? GAMEFREAK certainly deserves another break from all the Pokemon games and I think a sequel to this or Pulseman would be wonderful.

That said, I notice Ichinose's signature musical structure and tempo used in all Pokemon games (even B&W, which is in itself is a departure) from the Drill Dozer soundtrack alone.

Does the BW2 soundtrack also contain all the incidental music used in the games?
 
W

Why would you do that?

Member
Oh yes, Drill Dozer has IMO the single best Game Freak soundtrack, followed so closely by Pokemon Black/White. Both of those are my most played music on my MP3 players.

I love Game Freak's style of music, from Masuda to Go Ichinose. It is a large reason why I look forward to them releasing new games. :p
 
D

Dragoon En Regalia

Member
Ichinose just lets loose in Drill Dozer. I don't care if it sounds muddy at times, or static-y and dirty all-around—it just sounds great and full of raw energy, with sound samples that have so much more impact that what I've heard from the brassier tunes in recent Pokemon music (save Ichinose's battle themes in B/W, of course). Regardless of what you think of the game itself: the music's far beyond Pulseman's, and Pulseman has good music!
 
D

Dragoon En Regalia

Member
Reposting from other threads for good measure—

I bring you good news about the upcoming Black & White 2 album. A partial tracklist, credits, and more clarification on the album's contents have been posted on the JP Pokemon webpage for the album. I'm in shock. There's practically no mention of Kageyama in the track credits (so far), and it seems like Ichinose was responsible for many more tracks than I'd previously thought.

Furthermore: the liner notes and album extras look very interesting. A big collection of concept art, which is definitely much better than a bunch of pages detailing the game itself (which is what the album's have had for the longest time, though these BW albums are changing that).
 
D

Dragoon En Regalia

Member
pic09.jpg
pic10.jpg


Posted images from the site. The one on the left deals with how the musicians came up with material for Roxie and PokéWood, and the one on the right is bridge concept art.
 
E

Electivirus

Member
Apparently, this, along with 5 other main series soundtracks, will be offered on iTunes starting next week. :O

I'd have a link, but the story is from a banned site...
 
W

Wichu

Member
Electivirus said:
Apparently, this, along with 5 other main series soundtracks, will be offered on iTunes starting next week. :O

I'd have a link, but the story is from a banned site...
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It's on the official site - the Ruby/Sapphire, FireRed/LeafGreen, Diamond/Pearl, HeartGold/SoulSilver, Black/White and Black 2/White 2 OSTs are all going up on iTunes on the 25th.

Speaking of which, I assume they're only going to be on the Japanese iTunes. How would I go about buying stuff off there?
 
B

Bullza2o

Member
So I can just buy this at any game store in Japan, or is it available in Pokemon Centers? I'm going to Japan this September and man, what perfect timing!
 
P

perfect free

Member
Wichu said:
It's on the official site - the Ruby/Sapphire, FireRed/LeafGreen, Diamond/Pearl, HeartGold/SoulSilver, Black/White and Black 2/White 2 OSTs are all going up on iTunes on the 25th.

Speaking of which, I assume they're only going to be on the Japanese iTunes. How would I go about buying stuff off there?
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I think the easiest way to do it is to buy a Japanese iTunes gift card; you can buy codes for them online at places like japan-codes.com. (I've never actually bought anything from them, but they seem to have the best prices. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in.)

Now if the soundtracks actually pop up on the U.S. store, I will be a happy man.
 
D

Dragoon En Regalia

Member
My thoughts on the track credits:

Just took a peek at some sloppy album credits for the new Super Music Complete.

Ichinose produced more music for B&W2's soundtrack, but he didn't do enough. He's contributing less to these soundtracks than he did back in his Gen 3 Golden Era™, and that makes me sad. Meanwhile, Sato is improving on a regular basis. Stuff like Virbank City and both Rebirth Mountain themes are great stuff, though they still lack useful melodies. And I'm surprised at how much of Platinum's music she did. I could have sworn he did more tracks like Distortion World.

And I have nothing against Sato, since she's a great Pokémon game musician and is able to carry a soundtrack by herself nowadays. But Ichinose's tracks and most of the soundtracks he's led have pushed the envelope for Pokémon music for such a long time. I can't help but feel that Sato's stuff, while well-made, isn't well prepared to fill in for a lack of Ichinose-grade material. She has her own unique style of composing and arranging, and that's fine. But her inability to graft amazing melodies onto stylized pieces, the same way Ichinose can, is going to hurt future Pokémon soundtracks in the long run—so long as they don't have more material from Ichinose.

You know what puzzles me, though? Kageyama barely did anything for the new sountrack. It was all Sato and Ichinose, with Sato arranging old tracks from Kageyama. I'm certain Kageyama must be updating the sound team's sound capabilities and sample libraries at the moment, since Ichinose rearranged the Pokémon theme with higher-quality sampling. In addition to that, he'd have to be working on new music for Gen 6, and I bet he'll be an active leader in the games to come. We'll just have to wait and see.

Reading these track credits was interesting and disappointing. I honestly believe that Ichinose is the lead musician of the sound team, and he should be providing more material to these soundtracks than he is at the moment. The only argument I can use against him having less of a presence is that, since his material is so stand-out anyway, he's just making the rest of the sound team look bad every time they make a soundtrack. Which is funny, and a sign that soundtrack contributions from each member of the team should be more consistent and balanced overall.
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I thought people were interested in talking the talk about their favorite game music. Feel free to join in—the track listings, are up!
 
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