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Eidos: PS3 is "extraordinary", it's "the ultimate machine"

Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
monkeymagic said:
Interesting comparison from Wii60 with minimum and maximum costs

x360ps3mg3.gif
Click to expand...

It's a good, but flawed, comparison.

The cost of the headset is not added in to the PS3. HD Cables come with the 360 premium. There is no remote added into the PS3 cost.

We don't know the quality of the PS3 online service.

It's very clear-- to me, at least-- that the PS3 is a real steal. The price of entry is just very, very high.

Also 360 Pro has no wifi.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
meltpotato said:
since when is streaming media a valid bullet point for a game console?

and, seriously, how does an article about Eidos comments regarding the potential of games with a console degrade into a debate about watching movies and streaming media? I could understand if this was an article about the BD playback or HD-DVD add-on. come on...
Click to expand...

The Eidos comments did directly comment on the PS3 being a great value when you consider EVERYTHING it does - including movies.


Since we also now have an idea of the 360 HD-DVD addon cost ... it certainly seems fair to discuss the value the Eidos employee mentioned.
 
J

jjasper

Member
shpankey said:
HD Cables listed as NO on 360? the premium comes with them, no? or does the HD player output on it's own?
Click to expand...

It says no for PS3 core too, so I guess that they are only counting digital for some odd reason.
 
shpankey

shpankey

not an idiot
Tellaerin said:
Since MS (and their supporters) started pushing media center functionality as one of the great things you can do with a 360? That doesn't have anything to do with playing games, does it? So either the X360 isn't a game console, or it's a valid bullet point - in which case, things like Blu-Ray playback and other media applications are, too.
Click to expand...
to be fair, comparing streaming media functionality to a physical blue-ray drive isn't really an apples to apples comparison.
 
M

meltpotato

Member
Tellaerin said:
Since MS (and their supporters) started pushing media center functionality as one of the great things you can do with a 360? That doesn't have anything to do with playing games, does it? So either the X360 isn't a game console, or it's a valid bullet point - in which case, things like Blu-Ray playback and other media applications are, too.
Click to expand...

The X360 isnt a game console or it's a valid bullet point? uh... those are both mutually exclusive.

It can be an invalid point and the 360 can still be a game console. I can still play games on a 360 and not give a shit about media streaming... just like i can play games on a ps3 without watching movies on it. Hopefully the Gaming Forum will be about games again one day. For those of your that forget, games are such things like MGS4 and Lost Planet.
 
M

monkeymagic

Banned
REV 09 said:
That's a very inaccurate chart.
Click to expand...

Please elaborate.

I certainly don't see any inaccuracies although whoever created it could have dropped WiFi from X360 premium to make it $100 less and classified component/VGA cables as HD cables rather than just HDMI.

Nuances aside, the chart shows then both consoles when enabled for HD disc playback fall into comparable price brackets.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
REV 09 said:
does not compute??? That's a very inaccurate chart.
Click to expand...

I pointed out the four inaccuracies, but they might balance out. If Sony charges less than 99 for a headset and remote, then it is nullified since Microsoft charges that for the Wifi adapter.
 
shpankey

shpankey

not an idiot
REV 09 said:
does not compute??? That's a very inaccurate chart.
Click to expand...
more like misleading. though the HD Cables line is inaccurate. but perhaps they mean digital output (as someone mentioned)? though again, that would be misleading (b/c obviously you can get analog HD Cables -- ie: component). nevertheless to say, the chart is obviously trying to skew things to the favor of the PS3... or at least, make it seem a lot better to the average consumer, who knows not shit from shinola.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
monkeymagic said:
I think its 1080p over component for both 360 editions and PS3 core.

1080p over HDMI 1.3 for PS3 premium.
Click to expand...

Current 360 is max output of 1080i confirmed.

It is unclear whether PS3 will support 1080p in an analog form.
 
M

Mmmkay

Member
Onix said:
Current 360 is max output of 1080i confirmed.

It is unclear whether PS3 will support 1080p in an analog form.
Click to expand...
Both 360 and PS3 support D5 type D-Terminals which carry 1080p analog component signals. D5 is referenced as supported (but not enabled in the dash) for Japanese 360's since it's a Japanese standard. This is how Sony was able to talk about the HDMI'less PS3 still being able to produce a 1080p signal.
 
M

Mmmkay

Member
acousticvan said:
How many times did I say that X360 HD-DVD's cost is around $100?
Click to expand...
The forum replaces whole sentences with the lyrics from nursery rhymes when you make posts which are entirely bolded. So, err none?
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
Trolling is an artform. I'm glad the mods have started culling the mediocre ones. Step your game up, kiddies. And with that, I exit this thread. PEACE.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Mmmkay said:
Both 360 and PS3 support D5 type D-Terminals which carry 1080p analog component signals. D5 is referenced as supported (but not enabled in the dash) for Japanese 360's since it's a Japanese standard. This is how Sony was able to talk about the HDMI'less PS3 still being able to produce a 1080p signal.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I follow you.

I have an upconverting DVD player that uses HDMI 1.1. HDMI 1.1 supports 1080p, but my DVD player does not. Get the point?



Regardless,

1) To my knowledge, MS confirmed they that they will not support 1080p for gaming.

2) HD-DVD cannot legally be output above 1080i in the analog domain

3) Why would MS make content that can only work in one market?
 
T

Tellaerin

Member
meltpotato said:
The X360 isnt a game console or it's a valid bullet point? uh... those are both mutually exclusive.

It can be an invalid point and the 360 can still be a game console. I can still play games on a 360 and not give a shit about media streaming... just like i can play games on a ps3 without watching movies on it. Hopefully the Gaming Forum will be about games again one day. For those of your that forget, games are such things like MGS4 and Lost Planet.
Click to expand...

This isn't about what you personally consider to be worthwhile features in a console. Yes, you can play games on your 360 without streaming media or play games on a PS3 without watching movies on it. That doesn't mean that those other capabilities are worthless to everyone, or that people should ignore them when it comes time to weigh the pros and cons of each system. Even the companies that manufacture these systems are positioning the non-game functions as selling points nowadays - maybe it's time for you to accept the fact that while the games a console plays are its main selling point, the other things it can do are (justifiably) important to a potential buyer as well.
 
M

meltpotato

Member
Tellaerin said:
This isn't about what you personally consider to be worthwhile features in a console. Yes, you can play games on your 360 without streaming media or play games on a PS3 without watching movies on it. That doesn't mean that those other capabilities are worthless to everyone, or that people should ignore them when it comes time to weigh the pros and cons of each system. Even the companies that manufacture these systems are positioning the non-game functions as selling points nowadays - maybe it's time for you to accept the fact that while the games a console plays are its main selling point, the other things it can do are (justifiably) important to a potential buyer as well.
Click to expand...

That is all logical and valid, but i don't think that has much sway in the ultimate purchase of gaming consoles for the majority of consumers. i've read a few reports that have bolstered exactly that, which, i know, are ultimately not relevant to this discussion. but none the less, if someone wants to play DMC, they are buying a PS3. If someone wants to play Lost Planet, they are gonna buy a 360. I know there is some shift in this and i am well aware that some people consider me talking about gaming functions as indecipherable dinosaur talk, but can you honestly try tot ell me that consumers this xmas will be saying, "Well the 360+ the HD-DVD is x amount and the PS3 with built in BD is y amount. I suppose I will purchase blah blah blah."
 
J

Juice

Member
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
From what Ive seen any HDMI/component PQ difference is pretty hard to pick up. At least that was the case testing the outputs on my HD cable box. I dont think the average user would tell the difference. Might be a different story on something over 50" though.
Click to expand...

The story is likely that your cable signal's not great. If it's a digital HD box (as opposed to analog), that's a better judge, but still, most telecos HEAVILY HEAVILY compress all the signals they pipe through. That would make a component/hdmi comparison pretty meaningless.

Most people wouldn't be able to tell a difference between the two, but HDMI (in my experience has sometimes cleared up tearing/syncing issues I was having with component)
 
M

Mmmkay

Member
Onix said:
I'm not sure I follow you.

I have an upconverting DVD player that uses HDMI 1.1. HDMI 1.1 supports 1080p, but my DVD player does not. Get the point?
Click to expand...
D5 support in the 360 is confirmed, but just not enabled. It's semantics I know, since D-Terminals are only supported in Japan, but that does mean both consoles can support 1080p signals. But yeah I understand, unless D5 is seen as an exception, it too will be restricted to 1080i.
 
B

Beowvlf

Banned
This may have been said before, but with all the 'HDMI isn't really needed at all and almost no TV's even have it' that flooded GAF after E3 2005, I think it's pretty silly that some are now using it's omission, and only that fact, as a reason to wholly dismiss the core pack.

With ICT flags being held back for at least the next 4-5 years, the core pack is fully capable of outputting 720p/1080i BD movies. Do you guys honestly think that'll be unacceptable to a significant percentage of potential buyers? That's still an awesome step up over DVD.
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
Blu-Ray is a clever move though... Think about all the ppl in life like this, and there is a lot...

Mother: So, can you tell me why the PS3 is more than the 360

Associate: The main difference is the PS3 plays Blu-Ray discs

Mother: What's that?

Associate: It's basically the next "DVD"... It has superior picture, all in High Def (which everyone knows that term now), and not only is it good for movies, it's great for gaming as the discs hold 5x's that of the DVD discs that the 360 uses... So there's more room for gaming stuff...

That is going to sucker in, and sell a lot of units alone I believe... Back in the day when I worked at an EB, I noticed there's a lot of ppl like this, that don't "KNOW" everything about what these new consoles hold, and will easily be suckered in...

Blu-Ray will be a big selling point to ppl not "in the know" like parents are a lot of the time. Just like Free Online Gaming... People like that don't know the diff's between Live and whatever Sony has, but they'll ask "so my kid can play online for free on this one?" and they'll go for that... (then again, nobody knows all of Sony's online rig yet, it may actually be on par, or better... who knows yet... though I'd assume not on par...)
 
M

meltpotato

Member
J-Rzez said:
Blu-Ray is a clever move though... Think about all the ppl in life like this, and there is a lot...

Mother: So, can you tell me why the PS3 is more than the 360

Associate: The main difference is the PS3 plays Blu-Ray discs

Mother: What's that?

Associate: It's basically the next "DVD"... It has superior picture, all in High Def (which everyone knows that term now), and not only is it good for movies, it's great for gaming as the discs hold 5x's that of the DVD discs that the 360 uses... So there's more room for gaming stuff...

That is going to sucker in, and sell a lot of units alone I believe... Back in the day when I worked at an EB, I noticed there's a lot of ppl like this, that don't "KNOW" everything about what these new consoles hold, and will easily be suckered in...

Blu-Ray will be a big selling point to ppl not "in the know" like parents are a lot of the time. Just like Free Online Gaming... People like that don't know the diff's between Live and whatever Sony has, but they'll ask "so my kid can play online for free on this one?" and they'll go for that... (then again, nobody knows all of Sony's online rig yet, it may actually be on par, or better... who knows yet... though I'd assume not on par...)
Click to expand...

think about people in life? wtf.. go outside and enjoy some sun.

"people in life" will are likely not too interested in paying 500$ for a PlayStation.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Mmmkay said:
D5 support in the 360 is confirmed, but just not enabled. It's semantics I know, since D-Terminals are only supported in Japan, but that does mean both consoles can support 1080p signals. But yeah I understand, unless D5 is seen as an exception, it too will be restricted to 1080i.
Click to expand...

My point is that while the connector may support it, that doesn't mean the system will use its maximum resolution.

For the reasons I detailed previously, I find it unlikely.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
J-Rzez said:
Blu-Ray is a clever move though... Think about all the ppl in life like this, and there is a lot...

Mother: So, can you tell me why the PS3 is more than the 360

Associate: The main difference is the PS3 plays Blu-Ray discs

Mother: What's that?

Associate: It's basically the next "DVD"... It has superior picture, all in High Def (which everyone knows that term now), and not only is it good for movies, it's great for gaming as the discs hold 5x's that of the DVD discs that the 360 uses... So there's more room for gaming stuff...

That is going to sucker in, and sell a lot of units alone I believe... Back in the day when I worked at an EB, I noticed there's a lot of ppl like this, that don't "KNOW" everything about what these new consoles hold, and will easily be suckered in...

Blu-Ray will be a big selling point to ppl not "in the know" like parents are a lot of the time. Just like Free Online Gaming... People like that don't know the diff's between Live and whatever Sony has, but they'll ask "so my kid can play online for free on this one?" and they'll go for that... (then again, nobody knows all of Sony's online rig yet, it may actually be on par, or better... who knows yet... though I'd assume not on par...)
Click to expand...

Seriously,kids dont get $600 dollar presents without a very good reason, were talking brain tumors here.
 
A

AlanHemberger

Banned
I don't know why this causes such a ruckus. Doesn't everyone here already realize that techincally the PS3 is superior. For some peope it's worth it, for others it isn't. It's the same argument a million and one times on this forum.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
xhadoukenx said:
Seriously,kids dont get $600 dollar presents without a very good reason, were talking brain tumors here.
Click to expand...

I think one could modify the argument for more long-term ... say maybe after a few price-drops when mainstream sales start typically picking up.

At that point, the argument may prove to be quite valid.
 
M

Mmmkay

Member
Onix said:
My point is that while the connector may support it, that doesn't mean the system will use it's maximum resolution.

For the reasons I detailed previously, I find it unlikely.
Click to expand...
It's not like developers will get a lot of use out of 1080p gaming either for the PS3. But still, there's nothing acutally preventing them using 1080p framebuffers in the 360 as far as I am aware. Yes it's all very unlikely, but they can still say that it is supported by their system if they want to.

Remember, that Sony Q&A directly referenced D5 when talking about Blu-ray output:
Q20. You had previously announced that there would be two HDMI ports, but why does the PS3 with the 20GB HDD not have a HDMI port ? Can Blu-ray content be enjoyed in high quality graphics without HDMI ?
A20. High quality HD images can be enjoyed equally with the 20GB HDD product via the AV multi port (1080p output is also possible with the TV equipped with the D5 input). Analog output from BD will be supported until 2011 and all software published until they can be enjoyed. Standardization of visual image output via home network (e.g. DLNA) is also currently under way.
Click to expand...
Remember, this whole furore over ICT originated in Japan with it being illegal to implement. It's entirely possible that D5 is also exempt from the other analog restrictions which prevent 1080p over component.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Onix said:
I think one could modify the argument for more long-term ... say maybe after a few price-drops when mainstream sales start typically picking up.

At that point, the argument may prove to be quite valid.
Click to expand...

True say.

But if by then the average nobody still hasnt heard of Blu-Ray, Sony's screwed anyway.
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
meltpotato said:
think about people in life? wtf.. go outside and enjoy some sun.

"people in life" will are likely not too interested in paying 500$ for a PlayStation.
Click to expand...

Umm... It's a reference to all the ppl in life, in this example, which are Parents who are spoiling their kids with either a 360 or PS3... the one's going out this xmas to buy them their new console... and there are a LOT...

And these people would be more likely to pay $400 for a 360? And maybe the HD-DVD attachment? Is that what you're implying?

maybe you need to get outside and experience society a lil' and you can see that...? wtf is right... It happens... I clearly showed the type of "Person in Life" that I'm referring to, which parents buying their kids game systems is not a new thing... Perhaps you misunderstood something? Or maybe got upset of "the scenario and the outcome of it"...

Xbot Defense Force:
Corporal Wanna-Be

It's a very plausible scenario... newsflash... Many parents are known to spoil their kids...

and like how someone stated... this will even become MORE likely as time passes, and price drops...
 
M

meltpotato

Member
J-Rzez said:
Umm... It's a reference to all the ppl in life, in this example, which are Parents who are spoiling their kids with either a 360 or PS3... the one's going out this xmas to buy them their new console... and there are a LOT...

And these people would be more likely to pay $400 for a 360? And maybe the HD-DVD attachment? Is that what you're implying?

maybe you need to get outside and experience society a lil' and you can see that...? wtf is right... It happens... I clearly showed the type of "Person in Life" that I'm referring to, which parents buying their kids game systems is not a new thing... Perhaps you misunderstood something? Or maybe got upset of "the scenario and the outcome of it"...

Xbot Defense Force:
Corporal Wanna-Be

It's a very plausible scenario... newsflash... Many parents are known to spoil their kids...

and like how someone stated... this will even become MORE likely as time passes, and price drops...
Click to expand...

all these posts quoting my tag are really ****ing pissing me off.

they are not likely to pay 400$ either. if you seriously think that parents, on a regular basis, buy 400$ consoles for their children you are batshit insane. at the moment, the 360 and the ps3 are only marginally, if at all, relevant in this whole "mom" arguement
 
P

P90

Member
AlanHemberger said:
I don't know why this causes such a ruckus. Doesn't everyone here already realize that techincally the PS3 is superior. For some peope it's worth it, for others it isn't. It's the same argument a million and one times on this forum.
Click to expand...

The Hezbollah/Israel conflict is the same argument done thousands of times over, too. :(

All that we're asking is give peace a chance...
 
T

ThirdEye

Member
monkeymagic said:
Interesting comparison from Wii60 with minimum and maximum costs

x360ps3mg3.gif
Click to expand...
It shouldn't include 64MB memcard storage for Core 360 since it allows Premium PS3 to include 4GB memstick/SD card.
 
P

PolyGone

Banned
you guys, if the guys at Naughty Dog, a company who pretty much owes their success to Sony, says that the Sony machine is extraordinary and the ultimate machine ever created by mankind, then I don't see any reason not to believe them. Sure, Sony chose their game to become the mascot of the PlayStation and heavily markets their games whenever a new one is due, but money doesn't talk in this industry.

in case you can't tell, I am actually looking forward to the PS3 too
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Mmmkay said:
It's not like developers will get a lot of use out of 1080p gaming either for the PS3. But still, there's nothing acutally preventing them using 1080p framebuffers in the 360 as far as I am aware. Yes it's all very unlikely, but they can still say that it is supported by their system if they want to.

As long as the 10MB of eDRAM can support a 1080p front and back framebuffer (can it? I'm too lazy to do the math), then one can argue that the CPU/GPU can do it. However, that doesn't mean the output HW can actually do it. It is quite possible it does not have sufficient bandwidth for 1080p.

As far as making claims the system can do it ... I would actually question the legality of it. Even if it were true the HW can render AND output 1080p over D5, they would not be able to claim the system can do it unless they EXPLICITLY state that it is only over the D5 connection. Otherwise it would be argued as false advertising in all other regions.

The only way this would not be true is if (again for arguments sake), the HW can support it - including having sufficient bandwidth in its analog output section - and if it is fully supported through VGA. In that case, they would be free to advertise it even if they have no intention of ever actually doing it.



Remember, that Sony Q&A directly referenced D5 when talking about Blu-ray output:

Remember, this whole furore over ICT originated in Japan with it being illegal to implement. It's entirely possible that D5 is also exempt from the other analog restrictions which prevent 1080p over component.
Click to expand...

Japanese 'D' output IS component video, so it isn't exempt. Regardless, I'm pretty sure the specification is quite specific when refering to all non-HDCP connections. So any non HDCP connection (ie. VGA, D, etc.) is fuxxord.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
xhadoukenx said:
True say.

But if by then the average nobody still hasnt heard of Blu-Ray, Sony's screwed anyway.
Click to expand...

As was argued by the original poster ... if it's framed in easily understandable descriptions such as, 'HD movies', 'the replacement for DVD', 'bigger, better games' etc ... then it may still work.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
meltpotato said:
all these posts quoting my tag are really ****ing pissing me off.

they are not likely to pay 400$ either. if you seriously think that parents, on a regular basis, buy 400$ consoles for their children you are batshit insane. at the moment, the 360 and the ps3 are only marginally, if at all, relevant in this whole "mom" arguement
Click to expand...

As I posted, consider making the same argument in a couple of years ... once pricing is more at the mainstream level.

At that point, the argument may have some legs.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
ThirdEye said:
It shouldn't include 64MB memcard storage for Core 360 since it allows Premium PS3 to include 4GB memstick/SD card.
Click to expand...

Huh?

The reason the mem card is included is because we haven't had official confirmation whether the HD-DVD addon has internal memory for storing your configuration.

If it is confirmed, then the 64MB card cost should be removed ... until then, it is a valid cost.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
PolyGone said:
you guys, if the guys at Naughty Dog, a company who pretty much owes their success to Sony, says that the Sony machine is extraordinary and the ultimate machine ever created by mankind, then I don't see any reason not to believe them. Sure, Sony chose their game to become the mascot of the PlayStation and heavily markets their games whenever a new one is due, but money doesn't talk in this industry.

in case you can't tell, I am actually looking forward to the PS3 too
Click to expand...

:/


I'm not sure what the relevance of this is? The thread is about comments Eidos ... and when talking specifically about BluRay size advantages for games, comments from Epic.
 
M

meltpotato

Member
Onix said:
As I posted, consider making the same argument in a couple of years ... once pricing is more at the mainstream level.

At that point, the argument may have some legs.
Click to expand...

im not making the argument for a couple of years though.. im talking about where consoles are priced now. how would my argument of them being out of the child/present range be relevant when they are within the range?
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
meltpotato said:
im not making the argument for a couple of years though.. im talking about where consoles are priced now. how would my argument of them being out of the child/present range be relevant when they are within the range?
Click to expand...

I for one am not arguing that many parents will be purchasing PS3's for their kids this Christmas.
 
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