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Microsoft Pre-TGS 2006 Conference Thread

H

Hunter D

Member
monkeymagic said:
We're talking about HD-DVD content which consists of film and broadcast (video) material.

The assertion was that a TV deinterlacer could cope well enough with a 1080i signal to reconstruct it as if it were being passed as 1080p over HDMI.

That's largely true for film based HD-DVD content - not for video based content.

You should probably learn to read within context.
Click to expand...
The post I replied to made no mention of HDDVD. You seem to be using terms for the hell of it. Do you even know what broadcast means?
 
A

arne

Member
Black_Mamba said:
ＯＫ　ＩＭ　ＧＯＩＮＧ　ＨＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＵＰ　ＴＨＥ　ＶＩＤＥＯ．　ＴＨＩＳ　ＣＯＭＰＵＴＥＲ　ＩＳ　ＣＲＡＺＹ，　ＷＩＬＬ　ＴＡＫＥ　ＨＯＵＲＳ　ＴＯ　ＷＯＲＫ　ＯＮ　ＩＴ．　ＡＮＤ　ＳＯＲＲＹ　ＦＯＲ　ＴＨＥ　ＣＡＰＳ．
Click to expand...


I'm amazed you got out of there with that footage intact, I thought they had video demagnetizers everywhere in there.
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
monkeymagic said:
With a good deinterlacer 1080i is fine for film based material but not video (broadcast, sports).
Click to expand...

Once again... people just don't understand what you're saying... nobody understands all the other tie-ins either about this... but the major things missed here with this "360 1080p" stuff is this... They've made a "Coby" HD-DVD player... that's all... why? There's not enough hardware to take advantage of this...

1.3HDMI is significant... period... ppl need to wake up that stuff like 1080p is GEARED towards A/V NUTS, which all these specs add up... What's hard to realize the difference it can make in games... colors are now going to be able to go from "millions" to "billions"... Contrast ratio's improved... GREY scale improved... and Sound (Lossless audio anyone?)... These are all things that are going to appeal to ppl that are into "1080p" nut-stuff...

Those happy with the 720p and 5.1 rigs now, good for you... games will still be fun... those wanting the most out of the experience, will get that out of 1.3HDMI...
 
J

JB1981

Member
arne said:
new tvs?

vga?


dont' ask me about tvs... I stopped looking at tvs and inputs after I bought mine last year.
ask someone better versed like klee.

but vga will definitely work.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there are very, very few HDTVs out there that support full 1080p resolution over component. Some support it over VGA, though. And, of course, many LCD PC monitors do as well (a much more affordable option for gamers). Here's hoping Sony supports 1080p over VGA as well.
 
M

Moderation Unlimited

Banned
arne said:
new tvs?

vga?


dont' ask me about tvs... I stopped looking at tvs and inputs after I bought mine last year.
ask someone better versed like klee.

but vga will definitely work.
Click to expand...

alrighty...so basically computer monitors ftw (at least for the time being).
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Black_Mamba said:
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Click to expand...

060406_lost_hatch_hmed.hmedium.jpg
 
T

tambourine

Banned
arne said:
vga will support it.
Click to expand...

Hurray! Only this enigma swayed my longings of some inexpensive 1080p LCD set, since of my Xbox 360 gaming addiction. Problem's solved!

Hopefully I find the one of the larger Westinghouse sets on the cheap! Thanks again Arne! :D
 
T

timthegame

Banned
Interview by ****** with Shane Kim on 1080p on 360

I had a chance to talk to Shane Kim, who recently named the corporate vice president of Microsoft Game Studios, about the day's announcements over in Tokyo.

If you missed the news check out the full press release on the jump, but in a nutshell Microsoft announced the Japan price and date for the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360. More importantly, they announced that the fall software update for the console will allow the console to output game and movie content in 1080p resolution. That's right I said movies and games.

The interview was exactly 10 minutes long, so naturally I spent nine minutes trying to figure out just how a console with no HDMI out would gain 1080p output with a software update.

Kim was clear that the console could support true 1080p out.

"If it is running at 720p we will up-res it to 1080p, if it it's already 1080p then we can display it in 1080p," he said. " This is a great example of our console's ability and the great advantage of being a software company."

Kim said that while the console will soon support 1080p out, it will not have an HDMI out.

"We have the ability to output either through VGA or component. We have no HDMI announcement now," he said. "We do have the capability to deliver the software and, if needed, the hardware."

I pointed out that some movie studios have said they will use HDMI output as a form of copy protection and Kim acknowledged that if a studio uses that scheme then HDMI will indeed be required.

While Kim expects that some third-party game developers will create 1080p games, he said that 720p will likely remain the norm.

"We believe 720p is the sweet-spot for high definition," he said, adding that Microsoft Game Studio titles will, for now, continue to be created at 720p.

While the release of a low-cost HD-DVD player for the 360 could help make the console more competitive against Sony's upcoming PS3, Kim things the main development that could help jumpstart 360 sales in Japan are game titles.

Kim said that Microsoft plans to have 110 titles available for the 360 by the end of the year in Japan and 160 in North America.

"It's all going to be about the content and how customers value the content," he said.

Hit the jump for the official press release with details on new Live games, the Pac-Man World Championships, Xbox 360's HD-DVD player, some new titles and XNA support in Japan.
Click to expand...



NOTES: Its upto the movie studios uptil 2011 to implement copy protection to allow only HDMI for 1080p movies. If movie studios allow 1080p over component , it will play at 1080p over component natively or it will be upscaled to 1080p if required by software or hardware



Another news...for monkey magic

http://translate.google.com/transla...firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N
NEXT gene DVD ton of Use HDTV output until 2011

To outline OF the implementation regularization for the Advanced ACCESS content system (AACS), the copyright management scheme ton used by Blu ray Disc and High definition digitally Videodisc (hp DVD), has been announced. For discs pay in Japan and certain OTHER specified region, there wants NO restrictions imposed on high definition television (HDTV) signal output ton similar to terminals, looks for as “D” terminal. This is A temporary measure, more however, until 2010, and from 2011 outputs tons of “D” terminals wants severely restricted.

There is considerable argument of over more whether or emergency players wants include A function ton disable HDTV output ton of D3/D4 terminals (similarly restrict function), which DO emergency have effective CoPy protection technology, between the film making industry and the equipment manufacturers. As OF November 2005, the personal computers group (headed by firms like Intel Corp and Microsoft Corp, both OF the US) and the movie industry (including companies like Warner Bros Entertainment Inc. OF the US) were pressuring the equipment manufacturers ton incorporate similarly restrict on function. Many equipment manufacturers in Japan, where TVs without digitally terminals of acres common, have been fiercely resisting the proposal, and finally won A compromise ton keep the similar to limits function out OF Japan.

AACS Licensing Begins

Now that the issue has been resolved, licensing OF the AACS copyright management scheme for NEXT generation optical discs CAN finally begin (lake Table).

Japanese equipment manufacturers CAN relax for A while now that restrictions on output ton of “D” terminal have been avoided. It seems unlikely, more however, that it wants possible ton avoid implementing restrictions on output ton similar to terminals in 2011.

Equipment manufactured from January 1, 2011 wants unable ton of output HDTV video ton similar to terminals. It seems likely that equipment pay in both 2010 and 2011 wants require some type OF mechanism ton disable HDTV video output in 2011. And from January 1, 2014, video output ton similar to terminals wants forbidden entirely.

Hollywood's ultimatum
Many engineers express doubt that this item wants more ever implemented. Substantial resistance is expected from consumers and major retailers, and it could possibly destroy the entire NEXT towards optical disc market.

It is, in A scythe, Hollywood's ultimatum ton equipment manufacturers selling TVs without quietly high definition multimedia interface (HDMI) terminal. By indicating that similar to terminals wants eliminated into the future, the movie industry seems tons issuing A strong warning ton equipment manufacturers emergency ton sell TVs without HDMI terminal, and ton of users emergency ton buy them.

by Naoki Asakawa

(March 2006 Issue, Nikkei Electronics Asia)
Click to expand...

Japanese TV manufacturers DONT NEED TO IMPLEMENT HDCP until 2011
 
A

arne

Member
J-Rzez said:
1.3HDMI is significant... period... ppl need to wake up that stuff like 1080p is GEARED towards A/V NUTS, which all these specs add up... What's hard to realize the difference it can make in games... colors are now going to be able to go from "millions" to "billions"... Contrast ratio's improved... GREY scale improved... and Sound (Lossless audio anyone?)... These are all things that are going to appeal to ppl that are into "1080p" nut-stuff...
Click to expand...


actually, my tv can do 32-bit over VGA, which is part of the HDMI 1.3 spec. works for me.

by the time I need 48bit I'll have a new tv.
 
A

aaaaa0

Member
monkeymagic said:
That's largely true for film based HD-DVD content - not for video based content.
Click to expand...

Video based content is largely recorded at 720p or 1080i for compliance with ATSC anyway. I don't know of any video content natively at 1080p60.
 
J

JB1981

Member
arne said:
I'm amazed you got out of there with that footage intact, I thought they had video demagnetizers everywhere in there.
Click to expand...

How, exactly, will it work, Arne? Can you just set your dash res to 1920x1080, regardless of the game, and the 360 will output at that res, or will you have to change resolutions per the requirements of each game?

Btw, guys, is the Sony conference tomorrow?
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
J-Rzez said:
Once again... people just don't understand what you're saying... nobody understands all the other tie-ins either about this... but the major things missed here with this "360 1080p" stuff is this... They've made a "Coby" HD-DVD player... that's all... why? There's not enough hardware to take advantage of this...

1.3HDMI is significant... period... ppl need to wake up that stuff like 1080p is GEARED towards A/V NUTS, which all these specs add up... What's hard to realize the difference it can make in games... colors are now going to be able to go from "millions" to "billions"... Contrast ratio's improved... GREY scale improved... and Sound (Lossless audio anyone?)... These are all things that are going to appeal to ppl that are into "1080p" nut-stuff...

Those happy with the 720p and 5.1 rigs now, good for you... games will still be fun... those wanting the most out of the experience, will get that out of 1.3HDMI...
Click to expand...
for some reason, after reading this, i immediately thought up a totoally retarded scenario where capcom makes a game where the text was only readable via hdmi 1.3 due to them not taking the contrast ratio lesser tv's into account...
 
A

arne

Member
JB1981 said:
How, exactly, will it work, Arne? Can you just set your dash res to 1920x1080, regardless of the game, and the 360 will output at that res, or will you have to change resolutions per the requirements of each game?

Btw, guys, is the Sony conference tomorrow?
Click to expand...


from the sounds of it, the x360 will upscale everything to the 1080 resolution if that's what you set it at.


now, that being said, some people prefer using different resolutions to match the native resolution right?
 
D

drohne

hyperbolically metafictive
J-Rzez said:
Those happy with the 720p and 5.1 rigs now, good for you... games will still be fun... those wanting the most out of the experience, will get that out of 1.3HDMI...
Click to expand...


for a second there, i felt what it must be like to have a standard definition television and just the two speakers while everyone's making all this fuss about hd and surround :lol
 
D

duckroll

Member
arne said:
from the sounds of it, the x360 will upscale everything to the 1080 resolution if that's what you set it at.


now, that being said, some people prefer using different resolutions to match the native resolution right?
Click to expand...

No one here WITH a Xbox360 gives a shit about 1080p, just tell us when you're BRINGING THE CONFERENCE HOME! Hint hint! :p
 
T

tambourine

Banned
timthegame said:
*snippets*

NOTES: Its upto the movie studios uptil 2011 to implement copy protection to allow only HDMI for 1080p movies. If movie studios allow 1080p over component , it will play at 1080p over component natively or it will be upscaled to 1080p if required by software or hardware

*snippets*
Click to expand...

Oh well, hopefully, considering how crucial the PlayStation 3's and the Xbox 360's HD optical video format initiatives are to catalyze a prolific democratic adoption of home HD video, they'll simply discourage any of these paranoid Hollywood majors from implementing this overly restrictive anti-copy protection altogether. :p
 
A

arne

Member
duckroll said:
No one here WITH a Xbox360 gives a shit about 1080p, just tell us when you're BRINGING THE CONFERENCE HOME! Hint hint! :p
Click to expand...

yeah, I don't have a schedule like I did with E3 (not that I sould say s***).

I stayed up hoping for something too.
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
drohne said:
for a second there, i felt what it must be like to have a standard definition television and just the two speakers while everyone's making all this fuss about hd and surround :lol
Click to expand...

:lol
 
J

Joeholley

Member
Those happy with the 720p and 5.1 rigs now, good for you... games will still be fun... those wanting the most out of the experience, will get that out of 1.3HDMI...
Click to expand...

Naw, those wanting to get the most of of the experience will rent out a theatre and hook their systems up to the projector and DTS/THX system to get TRUE NEXT GEN GAMING OMG
 
H

Howard Alan Treesong

Member
jiggle said:
What does that mean? Did they not show soemthing that they were gonna?
Click to expand...

MS promised downloads at midnight to "bring the conference home," downloads failed to materialize, MS underpromises and overdelivers once again, gamers cry, something about an analog piracy flag? Oh God hold me.
 
A

AlanHemberger

Banned
jiggle said:
What does that mean? Did they not show soemthing that they were gonna?
Click to expand...
Marketplace :eek:

MS promised downloads at midnight to "bring the conference home," downloads failed to materialize, MS underpromises and overdelivers once again!
Click to expand...
OMG! I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS MIDNIGHT IN JAPAN ALREADY!
 
N

Nuclear Muffin

Banned
Why can't MS just have a HDMI 1.3 output on the HDDVD Player and output everything via that? Would make things so much easier for all of us!

BTW W00T! 1080p! No more worries about scaling lag!
 
D

dose

Member
NeoCross said:
but 1080 is meaningless this gen! microsoft told me so? ;(
Click to expand...
Ha! Indeed. Straight from the horses mouth, Microsoft director of games platform strategy, Andre Vrignaud HERE ...
What's interesting is that a lot of folks don't realize how meaningless 1080p actually is in this generation.
Click to expand...
To sum up, don't get sucked into all the 1080p hype. Just make sure you have a recent HDTV that de-interlaces 1080i signals correctly and you'll be just fine.
Click to expand...
:lol :lol
 
A

AlanHemberger

Banned
Nuclear Muffin said:
Why can't MS just have a HDMI 1.3 output on the HDDVD Player and output everything via that? Would make things so much easier for all of us!

BTW W00T! 1080p! No more worries about scaling lag!
Click to expand...
Because then they would either have to create a new SKU for the 360 or make the add-on process the video which would raise the price of the player and essentially negate it as an add-on and it would basically be a standalone player.
 
H

HokieJoe

Member
arne said:
from the sounds of it, the x360 will upscale everything to the 1080 resolution if that's what you set it at.


now, that being said, some people prefer using different resolutions to match the native resolution right?
Click to expand...


Native resolution- yes, it's generally better to output at the native resolution of your display.
 
A

arne

Member
HokieJoe said:
Native resolution- yes, it's generally better to output at the native resolution of your display.
Click to expand...


damn it I thought I went to bed.

I mean, native resolution of the game?

that got me confused. I just set mine for whatever in the vga settings on my tv -- as you said, native resolution of the tv.
 
A

AlanHemberger

Banned
arne said:
damn it I thought I went to bed.

I mean, native resolution of the game?

that got me confused. I just set mine for whatever in the vga settings on my tv -- as you said, native resolution of the tv.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of anyone setting up the resolution to match the resolution of the game. I would get annoyed changing my resolution setting for different games. I'd rather set it to the TV's res since it produces better results anyways.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
aaaaa0 said:
Video based content is largely recorded at 720p or 1080i for compliance with ATSC anyway. I don't know of any video content natively at 1080p60.
Click to expand...

Shit, I don't know of any pro cameras that records 1920x1080p60. 1080i60 or 1080p30 is the best that I know of for pro video cameras. IIRC, sports stuff is shot in 720p60 to avoid interlacing from fast action, and the rest is shot @ 1080i60.
 
A

arne

Member
Shogmaster said:
Shit, I don't know of any pro cameras that records 1920x1080p60. 1080i60 or 1080p30 is the best that I know of for pro video cameras. IIRC, sports stuff is shot in 720p60 to avoid interlacing from fast action, and the rest is shot @ 1080i60.
Click to expand...

you're right. the highest end pro cameras do 1920x1080 in 60i, 30p and 24p.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
J-Rzez said:
Once again... people just don't understand what you're saying... nobody understands all the other tie-ins either about this... but the major things missed here with this "360 1080p" stuff is this... They've made a "Coby" HD-DVD player... that's all... why? There's not enough hardware to take advantage of this...

1.3HDMI is significant... period... ppl need to wake up that stuff like 1080p is GEARED towards A/V NUTS, which all these specs add up... What's hard to realize the difference it can make in games... colors are now going to be able to go from "millions" to "billions"... Contrast ratio's improved... GREY scale improved... and Sound (Lossless audio anyone?)... These are all things that are going to appeal to ppl that are into "1080p" nut-stuff...

Those happy with the 720p and 5.1 rigs now, good for you... games will still be fun... those wanting the most out of the experience, will get that out of 1.3HDMI...
Click to expand...


why are you talking about something you clearly know nothing about? That just confuses people.

Fact is, HDMI 1.3 is potentially a better connection system, but there is nothing out there to take advantage of it.

Audio? HDDVD spec requires all audio to be decoded in the player. So it can be output over analogue or HDMI 1.1 upwards. No need for 1.3 *at all*

Video? Both HDDVD and Bluray specs have the same colour depth as original DVD (i.e not that great). Although they *might* be extendable in the future, they currently don't support deep colour. And there are no sets with deep colour support anyway.

HDMI 1.3 is FUD

As is 1080p for most people.

As for the comment about film Vs video - video is just as easy to deinterlace. If you can do simple cadence detection you just switch the 3:2 pulldown off and do a weave.
 
A

Adent

Can't manage for sh!t
I think the HD-DVD player is going to go for $150 here in the US since they always price things just a little bit more in Japan. It's just really reasuring to read that both Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are playable. We'll have played two great RPGs on the XBox 360 before any real previews of FFXIII start coming out.
 
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