Moor-Angol
Banned
LanceStern said:
There is a Kanji Quiz that sold over 200k and another one will be shipped tomorrow and i think it could sell more than Kanji Quiz.
Both developers are small teams...
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Media Create Sales: 10/23 - 10/29
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There is a Kanji Quiz that sold over 200k and another one will be shipped tomorrow and i think it could sell more than Kanji Quiz.
Both developers are small teams...
Cosmonaut X
Member
LanceStern said:
Well...
Jump Super Stars
Dragonball Z: Supersonic Warriors 2
Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop 1 + 2
Final Fantasy 3
Seiken Densetsu DS: Children of Mana
Slime Mori Mori Dragon Quest 2
...are all above 300,000, IIRC.
I don't really understand why 300,000 is the benchmark figure, though. Why not 100,000, 500,000, or 1,000,000? Is there something about that figure that is particularly significant?
Also worth looking back at the GBA to see what games exceeded your benchmark:
Rockman EXE 3, 4 + 6
Mushi King
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Yugioh Duel Monsters 5 Expert 1
Slime Mori Mori Dragon Quest
Super Robot Wars A
I'm sure those were the only third party titles to exceed 300,000 units, though obviously a number of Nintendo titles are well above that figure.
The PSP has something like:
Monster Hunter Portable
Everybody's Golf Portable
Ridge Racers
Brain Training Portable
Winning Eleven 9
...sitting above 300,000, though both Brain Training & WE 9 could be under, depending on which tracking you subscribe to.
Third parties aren't seeing huge numbers on either system yet, though it would seem more likely that they'll find them on the DS rather than the PSP, as sequels to major franchises are seeing sales of a fraction what the first installment sold (MG: Acid 2 at half what MG: Acid sold, Ridge Racers 2 only getting a 1/4 of the sales that RR achieved etc...)
Nah, not really, but it's not that great, and certainly not a polished or satisfying enough title to deserve huge sales. It doesn't help that it has visuals that barely reach "US DS developer" levels of competence, but attractive graphics wouldn't make up for a pretty lacklustre effort.
NintendosBooger
Member
I missed the line in Nintendo's policy where it states they're responsible for the sales of third-party games.
charlequin
Banned
Cosmonaut X said:
So the DS now is one 300k seller short of the GBA's lifetime total?
LanceStern
Banned
NintendosBooger said:
- 3rd Parties don't advertise or finda way to sell their titles
- 3rd parties get unhappy with their sales
- 3rd parties decide to cut back or cut off support
- Fanbase is unhappy and wants their support
- Nintendo wants fanbase to be happy
- Nintendo can spend the few extra bucks trying to help the 3rd parties sell their games
Cosmonaut X
Member
charlequin said:
Yeah, assuming all of my figures are correct ;-)
LanceStern
Banned
Cosmonaut X said:
It's a peeve of mine that is peeving everyone else ^_^. 100,000 is too low. It's like barely scratching a 1% of the audience and ANY game can sell 100k, but oddly enough, most don't. I say it's bad because most quality games are expected to surpass A LOT more then 100k, it's even in this topic by other people. 100k is a flop for most titles.
200k is ok, but it's floppish as well. 100k is avaible in the first month for the US, or first week or 2 in Japan, so 200 doesn't seem far off and seems like it should be a reachable point. Plus the fanbase isn't big enough if you've only got 200k people on a huge system seller, esepcially if the title was anticipated, a sequel, or a well known franchise. 200k doesn't cut it.
300k is a well-rounded, amazing number especially for handheld titles. As you can see most GBA games don't get there, and even though the DS list is nice, it's filled with titles from the exact same company, or crap. I want diverse quality titles to hit 300k. Plus I am (some might say this method is flawed) basing the success off old statements from companies that 300k is a good profit point for console titles. It just rounded off nicely in my head (100 too low, 200k is alright-decent, 300k is good, 500k is great).
THat's my main problem, you'd expect huge sales for the DS, what with the 7 million lead it has over the PSP in JApan (or more. But THE SALES AREN'T INDICATING IT. PSP software sells good when a big hitter comes out for the system, and yet the DS can barely perform those same numbers whena similar title comes out unless that title is from Nintendo or Square Enix.
Then there's the fact that the fanbase keeps gobling up those **** brain games, and ignoring titles like Kirby, Children of Mana, Egg Monsters, Winning Eleven, COntact, etc.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
I think that if games like FFIII sells a million copies (and it is a remake), perhaps the problem is not only the userbase. But I agree that conventional games have more problems to sell really well, outside Nintendo's games.
An observation: we know that Nintendo's games sells always very well on Nintendo's consoles. But why on Nintendo DS too ?
ATTENTION: what I mean, is that standard people (not gamers), that have contributed so much to the success of the Touch Generation buy (as numbers demonstrate) more Nintendo's games then Third Party's games, but this is strange for a the non & casual's gamers, because, in my opinion, they wouldn't know nothing about who's the developer and who's editing the game.
So, one possibility is that in Japan, people know all very well what Nintendo develops and what not (unlikely, especially for non-gamers).
The other possibility is that the userbase is composed by gamers as well, and this part is bigger then the most of people here think.
An observation: we know that Nintendo's games sells always very well on Nintendo's consoles. But why on Nintendo DS too ?
ATTENTION: what I mean, is that standard people (not gamers), that have contributed so much to the success of the Touch Generation buy (as numbers demonstrate) more Nintendo's games then Third Party's games, but this is strange for a the non & casual's gamers, because, in my opinion, they wouldn't know nothing about who's the developer and who's editing the game.
So, one possibility is that in Japan, people know all very well what Nintendo develops and what not (unlikely, especially for non-gamers).
The other possibility is that the userbase is composed by gamers as well, and this part is bigger then the most of people here think.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
Quite easier...
Guess what is the attach ratio of DS...near GBA or near PS2. Hint:
Add strong 1st party software and you get almost nothing left for everybody else.
Guess what is the attach ratio of DS...near GBA or near PS2. Hint:
really near GBA (4:1 vs 9:1)
Add strong 1st party software and you get almost nothing left for everybody else.
Cosmonaut X
Member
LanceStern said:
...except that major PSP titles - like Tekken DR, Ridge Racers 2, Metal Gear Acid 1 + 2, Loco Roco, Tales, Ghouls & Ghosts - really aren't doing the kind of figures you're talking about - in fact, they're down amongst the titles on the DS - like Metroid Prime Hunters, Rockman ZX, Starfox, Mushi King, Tales of the Tempest or Castlevania - that you're complaining aren't getting the sales they deserve!
Well, neither Kirby or Children of Mana are what I would consider "ignored" - Canvas Curse has sold something like 350,000, and Children of Mana is around the 300,000 mark, and the new Kirby installment seems to be on track to exceed Curse's sales, given the massive opening week it's had. Egg Monsters didn't do well, but it was early in the DS' lifespan. Contact was disappointing, but perhaps to be expected for a niche, new RPG. Winning Eleven is too early to tell, but it's certainly not going to be up to the levels of the WE installment on the PSP - but as I said, I don't think it's deserving of that.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Another possibility would be, that Nintendo advertises much more and makes games which fit the audience of DS much better than many 3rd party's games. And don't forget the lapsed gamers. I think, lapsed may be able to tell you about them ^^.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
charlequin said:
What ?!? Already ? Less then 2 years have passed. Incredible.
charlequin said:
Which is... oh, hey, right now! Seriously, Lance, the 300k benchmark is completely idiotic and really needs to get dropped -- even ignoring the fact that there are now a number of games that have passed that benchmark.
LanceStern said:
200k is not a ****ing flop! Stop being such a god-damned idiot about this stuff. You're not that stupid, so stop acting like it. You're perfectly capable of looking at the yearly Famitsu charts and seeing just how many games are reaching that number of sales every year -- enough that anyone who says it's a flop is out of their god-damned ****ing mind. 200k is a success. Hell, in most cases, for most games, 100k is a decent success.
NintendosBooger
Member
LanceStern said:
Sounds to me like third-party developers just aren't flexible or imaginative enough to 1.) compete with Nintendo's first/second party line-up or 2.) create compelling software for Nintendo's target audience.
How about holding them, not Nintendo or its machines or its policies, accountable for their own shortcomings.
Cosmonaut X
Member
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
Remember, that's DS third party games exceeding 300,000 versus GBA third party games exceeding 300,000. The first-party situation is a little different, with the GBA having something like 25 first-party titles achieving over 300,000, compared to the DS' 20, but I'm expecting the DS to match that by year end (and that's without series like F-Zero, Golden Sun, Fire Emblem etc...)
thestopsign
Member
LanceStern said:
Lance, your completely wrong on this. You're over estimating sales for games that aren't big releases, or just aren't released at the right time. Kirby: Canvas Curse came out in March 2005 while the DS was only enjoying mild success. The userbase at the time hadn't even reached 2 million at the time. It sold around 280,000, while that isn't good against sales of the GBA counterparts of the game. It is good for that kind of user base.
A game like Rune Factory that just recently came out is a nice example of good sales. You may say that they were just decent, but getting to 100,000 for a company like Marvelous is great. They didn't advertise it much, and it came out during the week Final Fantasy 3 came out. When a game that big comes out the smaller games that are released usually get looked over.
Contact really had no chance at all for any sales. It was a niche game that only got attention by GAF, and maybe Penny Arcade. It was lucky even to get into the Top 30 in sales that week.
Your misconstrued vision on sales doesn't really help. Castlevania has never been a big seller in Japan. The GBA game collectively sold about 80,000 combined, and one of them was a launch title. Only top tier games can make it too 300,000. The only 3rd Party games I have expected to make past that mark in the last year or so are: Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker, Final Fantasy 3, Tamagotchi 2, Children of Mana, Ryuusei no Rockman (EXE Series), and the Fushigi no Dungeon. Those games are all top of the line names in Japan. Tales of the Tempest ruined it's chance by being horrendously bad, and Winning Eleven never really had a chance because the graphics and gameplay can't be perfected or even come close on the DS compared to other games in the series.
If you look at the past years Top 100 charts (or even the Top 500 Chart of Last Year), you will see that only big name games make it above 300,000. Developers are happy with sales of just 100,000, or even 50,000 depending on the game. Sadly some games did fall short of that, like Contact, but really if you look at other systems they have their bombs too.
Top 100 Charts
thestopsign
Member
apotema said:
Can't judge a book by it's cover. The cover looked awesome.
Cosmonaut X
Member
apotema said:
Very short - especially compared to other Tales games - plus unsatisfying gameplay. I don't think it's awful, and certainly some GAFers seem to have had a bit of fun with it, but it's not what everyone was expecting.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
LanceStern said:
Way to ignore the fact that DS is on track to do way better than third parties for GBA or PSP, and instead post a big rant about how your stupid 300k benchmark makes sense.
200,000 units sold for a game is NOT "floppish." Period. No number of sales can roundly be labeled floppish, as games have different budgets and price points and sales goals. But 200k is beyond respectible for nearly any game.
Cosmonaut X said:
What?
Rockman EXE 4 Tournament Blue Moon/Red Sun - 925K
Mushiking - 630K
Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart - 625K
Rockman EXE 5 Team of Blues/Colonel - 606K
RockMan EXE 6: Dennoujuu Grega / Faltzer - 590k
Battle Network Rockman EXE 3/BLACK - 501K
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - 497K
Battle Network Rockman EXE 2 - 442K
Yugioh Duel Monsters 5 Expert 1 - 412K
Yugioh Duel Monsters 6 Expert 2 - 377K
Super Robot Taisen R - 353K
Super Robot Taisen A - 352K
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 349K
Slime Morimori Dragon Quest - 319K
Shinyaku Seiken Densetsu - 299K
Final Fantasy I + II Advance - 297K
Yugioh Duel Monsters 7 - 295K
Cosmonaut X
Member
Rock_Man said:
Cosmonaut X said:
...and it looks like they weren't
Cheers for the correction.
tanasten
glad to heard people isn't stupid anymore
Why there's people who are yet complaining about thuird party games not selling enought on the DS? C'Mon, everyone in GAF should be convinced that the 3rd Party developers are not doing a good effort on the system.
They're not doing the games that the DS market demands, and they're not doing great AAA titles that sells on the hardcore. Just Castlevania and the Rockman series, with Tamagotchi and FFIII are well thought and implemented games.
It's time to do something good third parties!
P.S: First post with my new PC! An Intel Dual Core 820 with 2 Gigas of Ram and 512 Mb Nvidia I need to test Doom 3 there
They're not doing the games that the DS market demands, and they're not doing great AAA titles that sells on the hardcore. Just Castlevania and the Rockman series, with Tamagotchi and FFIII are well thought and implemented games.
It's time to do something good third parties!
P.S: First post with my new PC! An Intel Dual Core 820 with 2 Gigas of Ram and 512 Mb Nvidia
I need to test Doom 3 there A Link to the Past
Banned
cvxfreak said:
No
Lance, STFU! If I sell a peach for $1,000,000 and you sell a million for $1, I win, you lose
Profit > Copies sold
thestopsign
Member
Raw64life said:
Loco Roco is the perfect game to say that it bombed. Sony went all out with the advertising, just to get 100,000 or so in sales. I know they were hoping for more.
LanceStern
Banned
Perhpas my standards are too high but gosh darn it I just won't be satisfied until I see more of those numebrs. But a few points:
1) There are exceptions to my 300k rule. Titles like Harvest Moon, Digimon, etc. actually OVERperformed in my eyes despite selling 100k ~ 160k. For the US, I was extremely impressed with Lost MAgic's sales, and that thing has barely done 50,00! Same goes for Age of Empires (80-90,000). I guess it's the games obscurity that lowers the bar. But for these big name DS titles, 100- 200k just doesn't cut it imo.
2) 3rd party sales are still too low for DS, but better than PSP's share of sales, I'll give you that.
3) How could you guys say 100k is NOT a flop when it's being shot all around GAF when some titles do 300k or less. It's ludicrous.
Hey, where are our unofficial numbers...
1) There are exceptions to my 300k rule. Titles like Harvest Moon, Digimon, etc. actually OVERperformed in my eyes despite selling 100k ~ 160k. For the US, I was extremely impressed with Lost MAgic's sales, and that thing has barely done 50,00! Same goes for Age of Empires (80-90,000). I guess it's the games obscurity that lowers the bar. But for these big name DS titles, 100- 200k just doesn't cut it imo.
2) 3rd party sales are still too low for DS, but better than PSP's share of sales, I'll give you that.
3) How could you guys say 100k is NOT a flop when it's being shot all around GAF when some titles do 300k or less. It's ludicrous.
Hey, where are our unofficial numbers...
LanceStern
Banned
A Link to the Past said:
Tell that to the fanboys that rub Zelda Minish Cap sales in Nintendo fans' faces.
LanceStern
Banned
Maybe it's just the 3rd parties crappy ability to cater to the DS's core fanbase. Square Enix has caught on and are being rewarded... Hudson and Natsume caught on, Majesco and Atlus caught on... Even Namco to some extent caught on.
But why can't they hook the regular gamers and non gamers with their big franchises... Kirby shouldn't be selling less than halve of what the GBA game did.. Tales should not be doing barely 100k in two weeks... Resident Evil shouldn't be doing less than 100,000 combined in the US and Japan.
It's frustrating to see the fanbase so ignorant to real games
But why can't they hook the regular gamers and non gamers with their big franchises... Kirby shouldn't be selling less than halve of what the GBA game did.. Tales should not be doing barely 100k in two weeks... Resident Evil shouldn't be doing less than 100,000 combined in the US and Japan.
It's frustrating to see the fanbase so ignorant to real games
A Link to the Past
Banned
LanceStern said:
You're acting like everyone else acts like this, when the only question you ask is if it sold 300,000 copies or not.
thestopsign
Member
LanceStern said:
Well, it really depends on the game you are talking about here. If Final Fantasy 3 came out, and only sold 300,000 in its lifetime. That would indeed be considered a "bomb". Some people could consider Wining Eleven's sales really bad at 50,000. It might have legs though. I'm betting it will end up over 200,000 in the end. For Winning Eleven and Kirby, it is to early to tell if we can consider them flops or not. We can have this discussion again at the end of the year, and our views will have changed.
Sindou_Hikaru20
Member
New Sales are up