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The 8 Rules Of Roguelike Design and your favorites
- Thread starter GhaleonQ
- Start date
tetrisgrammaton
Member
fossil coast said:
you're right. i'm downlaoding dungeon crawl stone soup right now. hope it doesn't need to be compiled...
ElectricThunder
Member
CrunchyFrog said:
Bringing it on back, it isn't the only game to do so, as all are derived from an art pack released for wide use back during a TIG Source competition.
I never really cared for the roguelike genre... funny enough I always thought it was a Japanese-only genre, didn't know it is in fact one of the oldest game genres around ever! Got my start with Azure Dreams, Dragon Crystal (early Game Gear title) and... well, isn't Toejam and Earl a bit of a roguelike?
tetrisgrammaton
Member
Orayn said:Nope. Very portable, very beginner friendly for a Roguelike, and very capable of killing you dead. Enjoy dealing with Sigmund for the first time.
Thanks for the warning!
I haven't played that many rougelikes but I have enjoyed me some Nethack, Elona and Dungeon Crawl stone soup. For the most part they follow those eight rules (less so for Nethack).
Among those three I'd really like to see Elona get more work on. It's not often you see a Japanese made PC rougelike. It's got some pretty cool features like building houses/farms/shops, regular taxation, bunch of towns, preset dungeons as well as rng based ones, some unique skills for player characters like 'piano playing'...etc I also quite like some of the lore in the game. It's delightfully anime but not overly so.
Apparently the tile version of stone soup can finally be played online! Which is great for people like me that enjoy them tiles (ascii text is fine too but sometimes I just get tired looking at it).
IVAN is also a pretty fun simple rougelike.
Among those three I'd really like to see Elona get more work on. It's not often you see a Japanese made PC rougelike. It's got some pretty cool features like building houses/farms/shops, regular taxation, bunch of towns, preset dungeons as well as rng based ones, some unique skills for player characters like 'piano playing'...etc I also quite like some of the lore in the game. It's delightfully anime but not overly so.
Apparently the tile version of stone soup can finally be played online! Which is great for people like me that enjoy them tiles (ascii text is fine too but sometimes I just get tired looking at it).
IVAN is also a pretty fun simple rougelike.
Yeah it's pretty much done unless it updates out of nowhere. There's just a good amount of unfinished stuff that would of been cool. Elona Shooter is pretty cool though.Billychu said:
I first played it a little after getting into DCSS and ascending in Nethack and it was a pretty fresh experience. Another thing I really liked was the diversity of the Gods in the game and how their gifts and passive bonuses were unique.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It's using oryx's freely distributed graphics that were originally made for TIGSource's assemblee competition that ROTMG took part in alongside tons of other projects.CrunchyFrog said:
That you quoted me saying the game in question "uses one of my favorite tilesets" should have given you enough of a hint to avoid making such statements. Though I suppose I used the wrong term since sprites aren't usually reffered to as tiles which is a word mostly used for the environment graphics in such games. Oh well. Now you know better.
ElectricThunder
Member
Also chums, just to say you know, but after a ton of years the first Alpha demo of JADE, the sequel to ADOM, came out this weekend. In theory, there should be actually frequent mini-releases from here on to fill things out over time.
http://www.ancientdomainsofmystery.com/
http://www.ancientdomainsofmystery.com/
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
GhaleonQ said:
One tricky thing here is that many roguelikes do "challenge dungeons". I'm going to use the Wii Chocobo's Dungeon game here. Level1 challenge, one hit challenge, etc. I don't think that there's necessarily anything wrong with OHKOs, so much as the design needs to be there so that the player doesn't get accidentally and cheaply (I'll leave that as a nebulous definition and someone who cares more than I do can elaborate better) killed by an OHKO.
Other than that the design rules seem pretty great to me.
Augemitbutter
Member
did any genre experts beat all the unlockable dungeons in shiren 1 ds? i think i've beaten one of them and then stopped. i assuredly can't call this game easy like some other people on previous posts.
ElectricThunder
Member
Head's up: Dungeons of Dredmor is supposed to go live on Steam for $5 at some point today---full modding capabilities are intended post release, Linux version still coming when they can wrangle it, PC/Mac is, IIRC, bundled in the Steam.
I will gladly throw $5 at it---the Steam sale only clipped me for $5 afterall! mwahaha
I will gladly throw $5 at it---the Steam sale only clipped me for $5 afterall! mwahaha
piratepwnsninja
Member
It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but Dungeons of Dredmor is out on Steam! Only $4.49 right now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNHzcmWKQYc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNHzcmWKQYc
ElectricThunder
Member
faridmon said:
No worries, you've just gotta take it in stride and sample the multitude of them available until you find one-some that happen to do it for YOU----there's such a variety already out there, and growing all the time, that you are bound to find a chord striker eventually.
The scene has never been more vibrant and full of things actually getting done, from new projects to substantial fix/content patch releases---I'd wager the best days are yet to come still.
Billychu said:
Well, i like roguelikes!
And i want to make one in future.
I can't delve into oldschool roguelikes much. But i like the full randomness concept they have.
What i wonder is; what do olden rogulike lovers think about new console roguelikes or coffee-break roguelikes? They sure don't have all of these 8 rules here but they are more accessible and open to new things.
mjemirzian
Banned
Newer roguelikes are a sign of the times. Every game genre in general is seeing lowered skill caps, lowered depth, and less time investment per playthrough or gaming session, including competitive PvP games. It's popcorn gaming for the masses (and higher sales, of course).
That and console or handheld roguelikes can't handle the absurd number of commands in an older roguelike such as angband. It sort of has to be simplified if you're not playing on a keyboard or something similar.
That and console or handheld roguelikes can't handle the absurd number of commands in an older roguelike such as angband. It sort of has to be simplified if you're not playing on a keyboard or something similar.
Saw some Dungeons of Dredmore people hocking it on /v/ the other night in the guise of normal posters, bragging about how powerful the DRM is and being generally abusive toward people who didn't think the game looked very good. While I appreciate them releasing a new graphical roguelike for five bucks, I wish they wouldn't be such douchebags about it. :/
Philthy
Member
No idea what /v/ is, but Dredmor could possibly unseat Angband as my favorite roguelike. I bought it for a friend who I knew liked Moria back in the day. Both of us were on Steam for what must have been five hours straight last night and we concluded that Dredmor is definitely a contender in the genre.
The graphics are a bit unique in that they are of a style of a Lucasarts adventure game of years gone by. Almost retro looking. The Angry Brit did a video of the game and I think he really nailed it when he said it reminded him of Munchkin the game. The art and style really mirrors that. People may not pick up on that initially, so it'll put them off. But I think the gameplay, even if people never come around to graphics, will make you a fan. God only knows, people who like roguelikes have been getting along just fine with @ characters for the past 30 plus years, I'm sure they have no problem with "bad art".
The graphics are a bit unique in that they are of a style of a Lucasarts adventure game of years gone by. Almost retro looking. The Angry Brit did a video of the game and I think he really nailed it when he said it reminded him of Munchkin the game. The art and style really mirrors that. People may not pick up on that initially, so it'll put them off. But I think the gameplay, even if people never come around to graphics, will make you a fan. God only knows, people who like roguelikes have been getting along just fine with @ characters for the past 30 plus years, I'm sure they have no problem with "bad art".
smuttlegiaco
Neo Member
ever heard of Companions for the iPad? not exactly what you described, but a rich dungeon crawler nonetheless. it has elements of roguelikes, of dungeon crawler and normal RPG's. a lite version is out too, so you can try it for free.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Sorry for the bump, can't find a better relevant thread.
Doom roguelike now has a somewhat mouse controlled graphical mode!
With smooth scrolling! My eyes thank ye.
Doom roguelike now has a somewhat mouse controlled graphical mode!
With smooth scrolling! My eyes thank ye.
To be fair, Dragon Quest 1 is *remarkably* nonlinear when you compare it to more recent titles, and I think all the DQ titles have a point where they open up and have a nonlinear quest to piece together (usually collecting X special items from specific spots) before the final dungeon.
Indeed, I'd probably argue that Dragon Quest 1 - at a design level - has more in common with Ultima 4 than it does with Final Fantasy 7.
More than a bit, you've got levelling, you've got item identification, you've got random maps. It just happens to be action-based rather than turn-based. While it's stylistically *completely* different, it's not a million miles away from Diablo.
Edit: Ooops. Now realised the size of the bump here. Oh well!
Bomber Bob
Banned
so... nobody here ever played nethack?
Night_Trekker
Member
Toejam and Earl as a Roguelike... I don't know why that never crossed my mind, but you're right. It is one!
Not considering the posting dates!
But yeah, BoI has a ton of Roguelike elements to it.
I've played a little of Nethack. I admit I was overwhelmed when I started it, and I decided I would come back to it later. Gotta re-download it...
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
UnReal World is now free/donationware. It always sounded interesting but I wasn't sure if I wanted to get into it previously, years ago when I first saw it, now I have no excuse to not at least try it!
Edit: by the way, the mirrors forum thread is what needs a login, the downloads page works without login.
Possibly kind of like a Minecraft/Wurm/whatever survival esque game is hot these days, long before they were made!
Edit: by the way, the mirrors forum thread is what needs a login, the downloads page works without login.