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720 vs PS4 Graphics War: If 720 is lower specs, Will it match or compete with PS4?

Anybody that has taken college level math, or even advanced math in high school (and unlike some of the posts directed at me, this isn't meant to be an insult) should more than be able to understand that simply because two different methods are both mathematically correct, this does not somehow mean that both methods used to arrive at those answers are somehow simultaneously capable of being the correct answer to a specific problem.

They aren't both the correct way to arrive at the answer we seek in this case. One method is more appropriate to what we are actually discussing than the other, and that method, I'm firmly convinced, is to start any and all calculation with the stronger GPU first.
What you say doesn't matter at all.

If somebody asks you how much more powerful the PS4 is than Durango. The only correct answer is 'x1.5 times'.
You were mathematically incorrect by saying it's only 'x1.33 times' because that would make the PS4 a 1,6GLOPS instead of a 1,8GFLOPS system.
 
Lets just use the one people understand better.

PS4 GPU is 1.5 times as powerful as Durango GPU :)

Well, I've had my fill. This was an interesting way to past the time before work. Yea, people can classify it however they like. 1.5 times is still inaccurate and a large misrepresentation, but I guess it doesn't really matter all that much ;)
 
M°°nblade;53870013 said:
What you say doesn't matter at all.

If somebody asks you how much more powerful the PS4 is than Durango. The only correct answer is 'x1.5 times'.
You were mathematically incorrect by saying it's only 'x1.33 times' because that would make the PS4 a 1,6GLOPS instead of a 1,8GFLOPS system.
Yes.

1.2 * 1.5 = 1.8.
 
Well, I've had my fill. This was an interesting way to past the time before work. Yea, people can classify it however they like. 1.5 times is still inaccurate and a large misrepresentation, but I guess it doesn't really matter all that much ;)

Out of interest how many Durango GPU's would need to match the PS4 GPU's power (only counting raw flops).
 
The developer effort argument is grasping at straws. The PS4 is effectively like upgrading your graphics card vs Durango. Developers won't have to try at all.
 
The developer effort argument is grasping at straws. The PS4 is effectively like upgrading your graphics card vs Durango. Developers won't have to try at all.

That's if they give a shit.

EA's 007 Everything or Nothing on Xbox

914852_20031107_screen008.jpg
 
1.2 x 1.33 = 1.8?
Mathematics meltdowns. SMH.

I'm assuming this thread is a taste of what we're in store for should the rumored specs end up accurate.
 
I'm not into this tech/specs talk that much and I'm wondering if the difference in horsepower between Durango and PS4 (with the specs that we currently have for Durango) is closer to the PS2 and Xbox or the PS3 and the 360?

Thanks in advance.
 
I
When there is an increase from the lower to the higher number taking place, you get 50%
When there is a decrease from the higher to the lower number taking place, you get 33.3%
.

Exactly. The first sentence gives us: the PS4 has 50% more than the Durango.
The second sentence gives us: The Durango has 33% less than the PS4.

This is how math works.


They aren't both the correct way to arrive at the answer we seek in this case. One method is more appropriate to what we are actually discussing than the other, and that method, I'm firmly convinced, is to start any and all calculation with the stronger GPU first.

Fine, then say the Durango is 33% less powerful. That would be correct. Saying the PS4 is 33% more powerful than the Durango because the Durango is 33% less powerful than the PS4 is absolutely wrong.
 
So are we taking confirmed specs versus speculation as absolute fact now?

Surely we can confirm nothing about power until we know the actual specs of the Durango?
 
surely the real question is:

who has the most talented artists and best range of franchises?

or... Who seems to be focused on gamers?

both of those questions will lead you to the best, and best looking, games.
 
So are we taking confirmed specs versus speculation as absolute fact now?

Grow up. Do you think we have to preface every single speculation/argument/etc with "If the rumoured specs are true..." ? We all know the specs for 720 we have now are only rumours/leaks, that shouldn't stop us from making comparisons.
 
How can people even grasp the power differences if they can't even get basic math/percentages right. This thread is hilarious.

Console war threads are ridiculous enough when they are based on hard facts and evidence, but all of these recent ones based on nothing more than rumour and hearsay take things to a whole new level.

Still, it's good sport I suppose. Keeps the kids off the streets.
 
Console war threads are ridiculous enough when they are based on hard facts and evidence, but all of these recent ones based on nothing more than rumour and hearsay take things to a whole new level.

Still, it's good sport I suppose. Keeps the kids off the streets.

But not in schools if the maths is anything to go by.
 
Out of interest how many Durango GPU's would need to match the PS4 GPU's power (only counting raw flops).


Quick rundown (only counting raw flops)


PS4 GPU TFLOPS -- 1843200 (1152 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.84 TFLOPS)

Xbox GPU TFLOPS -- 1228800 (768 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.22 TFLOPS)


TFLOPS gap between Xbox GPU and PS4 GPU 614400 (614GFLOPS)

614400 * 2 = 1228800, which is the full performance of Durango GPU.

614400 * 3 = 1843200, which is the full performance of PS4 GPU.

To be pretty simplistic about it -- 1843200 / 10 = 184320 (This is 10% of PS4's total flops performance)

184320 * 5 = 921600 (50% of PS4's total flops performance aka 921GFLOPS)

184320 * 6.6 = 1216512 (Close enough to Durango's full performance)

More or less, Durango's GPU is around 66 to 67% of the PS4 GPU's power in raw flops. More or less it would take 1.33 Durango GPUs, which was already mentioned jokingly to poke fun at me by Mantis, but I wanted to show you how I arrived at most of the numbers.

Fine, then say the Durango is 33% less powerful. That would be correct. Saying the PS4 is 33% more powerful than the Durango because the Durango is 33% less powerful than the PS4 is absolutely wrong.

I understand that, but we aren't exactly trying to be scientific here. Just speaking in terms of raw flops. No way the raw flops on either of these systems will be the ultimate decider of end performance. There's a lot of other factors that come we have to factor, but we were just speaking purely in terms of raw flops. PS4 devs only having to worry about that single pool of GDDR5 should be important also.
 
My guess is muti-platform games will run @ 1080p on PS4 while run @ 720p on 720, if the specs were true.
 
My guess is muti-platform games will run @ 1080p on PS4 while run @ 720p on 720, if the specs were true.

At worst this is what will happen if the specs are accurate, but I think the games will more or less look rather similar. Okay, that's enough gaf posts at work, or I'm going to get in trouble :P
 
Playing God of War 2 and seeing how great it looks on the PS3, I'm thinking Durango future owners should be more worried about studio talent than this difference in power.

It's incredible what great artists and great tech people were able to do with the Ps2.
 
Quick rundown (only counting raw flops)


PS4 GPU TFLOPS -- 1843200 (1152 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.84 TFLOPS)

Xbox GPU TFLOPS -- 1228800 (768 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.22 TFLOPS)


TFLOPS gap between Xbox GPU and PS4 GPU 614400 (614GFLOPS)

614400 * 2 = 1228800, which is the full performance of Durango GPU.

614400 * 3 = 1843200, which is the full performance of PS4 GPU.

To be pretty simplistic about it -- 1843200 / 10 = 184320 (This is 10% of PS4's total flops performance)

184320 * 5 = 921600 (50% of PS4's total flops performance aka 921GFLOPS)

184320 * 6.6 = 1216512 (Close enough to Durango's full performance)

More or less, Durango's GPU is around 66 to 67% of the PS4 GPU's power in raw flops. More or less it would take 1.33 Durango GPUs, which was already mentioned jokingly to poke fun at me by Mantis, but I wanted to show you how I arrived at most of the numbers.
It would take 1.5 Durango GPUs, not 1.33, using those numbers.

614400 * 2 = 1228800 = Durango GPU
so 614400 = 0.5 * Durango GPU
1228800 + 614400 = 1 Durango GPU + 0.5 Durango GPU = 1.5 Durango GPU = 1843200 = PS4 GPU
1.5 Durango GPU = PS4 GPU
 
Quick rundown (only counting raw flops)


PS4 GPU TFLOPS -- 1843200 (1152 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.84 TFLOPS)

Xbox GPU TFLOPS -- 1228800 (768 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.22 TFLOPS)


TFLOPS gap between Xbox GPU and PS4 GPU 614400 (614GFLOPS)

614400 * 2 = 1228800, which is the full performance of Durango GPU.

614400 * 3 = 1843200, which is the full performance of PS4 GPU.

To be pretty simplistic about it -- 1843200 / 10 = 184320 (This is 10% of PS4's total flops performance)

184320 * 5 = 921600 (50% of PS4's total flops performance aka 921GFLOPS)

184320 * 6.6 = 1216512 (Close enough to Durango's full performance)

More or less, Durango's GPU is around 66 to 67% of the PS4 GPU's power in raw flops. More or less it would take 1.33 Durango GPUs, which was already mentioned jokingly to poke fun at me by Mantis, but I wanted to show you how I arrived at most of the numbers.



I understand that, but we aren't exactly trying to be scientific here. Just speaking in terms of raw flops. No way the raw flops on either of these systems will be the ultimate decider of end performance. There's a lot of other factors that come we have to factor, but we were just speaking purely in terms of raw flops. PS4 devs only having to worry about that single pool of GDDR5 should be important also.

Your doing maths incorrectly mate.

1.2 * 1.33 != 1.8

1.2 * 1.5 = 1.8

QED :. Durango * 1.5 = PS4.
Therefore PS4 = 1.5 * Durango. or 50% more powerful.
 
It would take 1.5 Durango GPUs, not 1.33, using those numbers.

614400 * 2 = 1228800 = Durango GPU
so 614400 = 0.5 * Durango GPU
1228800 + 614400 = 1 Durango GPU + 0.5 Durango GPU = 1.5 Durango GPU = 1843200 = PS4 GPU
1.5 Durango GPU = PS4 GPU

Ahh, in the context of his question, yep, you're right. I was still thinking about it in the previous context that I've been viewing it from the start, which was how I saw the percentage differences between the two video cards at the top end, starting with the ps4's 1.8tflops number and then decreasing by percentage from there till I arrived at Durango's 1.2tflops, which gave me 33.3%.

However, the way his question is worded, 1.5 Durango GPUs would be accurate. My mistake.
 
lol desperate ass people squeezing in random teraflops wherever they can

MS needs to announce this fucking thing already, the speculation is getting tiresome
 
I don't think there's going to be as big of a difference as some people think.

Detail-Comparo.gif


Almost any modern game will show the same thing. Huge performance improvements for (relatively) small drops in quality. You'd need a lot more power than 1.5x the competition for there to be generational differences like some in this thread are implying.

Doesnt Crysis need to be restarted to actually change Texture quality?
From the gif it looks like the textures arent being reloaded its all the same textures.
 
I'm convinced that the delay in showing Xbox 720 is due to them upgrading the specifications so that it's at least as powerful as PS4.

If they go all out on the GPU then it could exceed the performance of PS4 which would be quite a thing.

The great thing about the designs being so similar is that we should be able to get a pretty clear idea of their performance relative to each other. We won't have the same situation of having the Xbox 360 vs PS3 performance debates running on for years.


What delay? They never announced any launch event, so there was nothing to delay. They're just later to announce than Sony
 
I'm convinced that the delay in showing Xbox 720 is due to them upgrading the specifications so that it's at least as powerful as PS4.

If they go all out on the GPU then it could exceed the performance of PS4 which would be quite a thing.

The great thing about the designs being so similar is that we should be able to get a pretty clear idea of their performance relative to each other. We won't have the same situation of having the Xbox 360 vs PS3 performance debates running on for years.

There is no delay. Why would MS reveal? They have a roadmap and sticking to it.
 
Anybody that has taken college level math, or even advanced math in high school (and unlike some of the posts directed at me, this isn't meant to be an insult) should more than be able to understand that simply because two different methods are both mathematically correct, this does not somehow mean that both methods used to arrive at those answers are somehow simultaneously capable of being the correct answer to a specific problem.

They aren't both the correct way to arrive at the answer we seek in this case. One method is more appropriate to what we are actually discussing than the other, and that method, I'm firmly convinced, is to start any and all calculation with the stronger GPU first.


You are drunk go to sleep.
 
Some news/ rumors.

Microsoft Xbox 720 to have Omni-Spatial gesture and Glasses free 3D UI

The US giant has devolepd a unique UI which will let users enjoy a 3D excperience with wearing glasses. The system is based on an advanced Omni-Spatial gesturing input mechanism.

Linky

Why cant one of you members create a topic about durango where every rumor/ news is posted there? So we will have an active topic with all news and rumors like other forums :)

Instead of using an old topic to post some news.
 
Some news/ rumors.

Microsoft Xbox 720 to have Omni-Spatial gesture and Glasses free 3D UI

The US giant has devolepd a unique UI which will let users enjoy a 3D excperience with wearing glasses. The system is based on an advanced Omni-Spatial gesturing input mechanism.

Linky

Why cant one of you members create a topic about durango where every rumor/ news is posted there? So we will have an active topic with all news and rumors like other forums :)

Instead of using an old topic to post some news.

I read the article and it has not sense.
 
Ahh, in the context of his question, yep, you're right. I was still thinking about it in the previous context that I've been viewing it from the start...

However, the way his question is worded, 1.5 Durango GPUs would be accurate. My mistake.

Your math has always been flat-out wrong. You can't backpedal fast enough to change that.

But I guess math is all in the eye of the beholder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfgX0fyNeLc
 
If things continue as they are and Xbox is the "more popular" console for sales in terms of third party games, then everyone suffers if the next Xbox is not very powerful. PS4 users suffer due to gimped potential, where it was gimped to be able to be run on Next Xbox. PC users suffer for the same reason. Gimped potentials.

Still crossing my fingers MS saw the unexpected higher specs of PS4 and are re-working and enhancing certain chips. We will know soon enough.
 
^^ The two platforms are so close, GPU performance aside, that this wouldn't happen. Anything you could do on one, you could do with lower framebuffer resolution on the other.

My guess is muti-platform games will run @ 1080p on PS4 while run @ 720p on 720, if the specs were true.

If those spec rumours were true for Durango, the gap wouldn't be as big as that. 1080p is more than 2x720p. It'd be more like ~1600x900 on the Xbox.
 
If things continue as they are and Xbox is the "more popular" console for sales in terms of third party games, then everyone suffers if the next Xbox is not very powerful. PS4 users suffer due to gimped potential, where it was gimped to be able to be run on Next Xbox. PC users suffer for the same reason. Gimped potentials.

Still crossing my fingers MS saw the unexpected higher specs of PS4 and are re-working and enhancing certain chips. We will know soon enough.

Most multiplatform games on PC look a lot better than their console counterparts. I don't see how PS4 games or even PC games will be gimped.

The extra power could be used for better IQ, AA or even improved framerates. But of course, first party is where the console will really shine. I don't expect multi-platform games to really 'push' for that additional power, unless the PS4 is designated as the lead console.
 
Compete with? Almost certainly.

Match? Depends on the context. For most, yes. I don't think there's even much difference between Bayonetta for most people who are just playing games and not talking about them.
 
The xbox was two times faster than the ps2 but still some games GoW2 and GT4 looked great compared to xbox exclusives. The xbox GPU was ~3X faster than the GC GPU but many here still insist the GC was almost as fast as the xbox.

Lower quality filtering and motion blur isn't going to stand up to most people and games will still look gorgeous on both systems.

If things continue as they are and Xbox is the "more popular" console for sales in terms of third party games, then everyone suffers if the next Xbox is not very powerful. PS4 users suffer due to gimped potential, where it was gimped to be able to be run on Next Xbox. PC users suffer for the same reason. Gimped potentials.

Still crossing my fingers MS saw the unexpected higher specs of PS4 and are re-working and enhancing certain chips. We will know soon enough.

None of this is going to happen. It's unlikely either will be able to do much more the other system would be able to do. The PS4 could just have higher quality assets and that would be the extent I imagine.
 
The xbox was two times faster than the ps2 but still some games GoW2 and GT4 looked great compared to xbox exclusives. The xbox GPU was ~3X faster than the GC GPU but many here still insist the GC was almost as fast as the xbox.

Lower quality filtering and motion blur isn't going to stand up to most people and games will still look gorgeous on both systems.



None of this is going to happen. It's unlikely either will be able to do much more the other system would be able to do. The PS4 could just have higher quality assets and that would be the extent I imagine.

I don't know, 18 versus 1.2 is a huge gap.
 
Most multiplatform games on PC look a lot better than their console counterparts. I don't see how PS4 games or even PC games will be gimped.

The extra power could be used for better IQ, AA or even improved framerates. But of course, first party is where the console will really shine. I don't expect multi-platform games to really 'push' for that additional power, unless the PS4 is designated as the lead console.

Yes, most PC multi-platforms look better than their console counterparts, however, they are mostly just minor enhancements (AA, resolution, framerate, etc).
The games are still essentially lower powered console games just with decorations.
That's what happened this generation due to the lower powered Xbox 360 contrasting to PC.
The overall game was gimped to be functional on the most selling platform for multi-platform games, in this generation's case 360.
If there was a higher power standard for the most selling console platform, then all muti-platform games will benefit much greater, especially PC.

Like I said, all bets are on Microsoft to deliver a truly powerful console that won't be paltry to PS4, perhaps even exceeds PS4 in certain areas. Developers who are betting the Xbox will be the biggest seller for multi-platforms again are surely betting on this. And with all of the nudging and inside-influence Epic and Crytek among others had on Microsoft, I think it might be a fair possibility it's not a fool's errand to hope the next Xbox is high powered.
 
I'm convinced that the delay in showing Xbox 720 is due to them upgrading the specifications so that it's at least as powerful as PS4.

If they go all out on the GPU then it could exceed the performance of PS4 which would be quite a thing.

The great thing about the designs being so similar is that we should be able to get a pretty clear idea of their performance relative to each other. We won't have the same situation of having the Xbox 360 vs PS3 performance debates running on for years.

A month or two could not have much to do with changes in the hardware itself. I'd go with the rumors of fabrication being the issue. If the APU is as large and hot as people are saying and they are delayed in getting dev kits to those who need them, then they will be late with floor demos. In that light you have a simple explanation to a month or two delay, and simple explanation almost always trumps complex conspiracy theories.
 
The 360's CPU is PPC technology, which were used in Macs, but not since 2006. So not really.
Both PS3 and 360 use graphics cards that are related to PC cards.



There are plenty of games where the PS3 version was noticeably worse.

The XBOX had the definitive version of most games in comparison to the PS2 and Gamecube. It wasn't a problem, as long as it ran well and looked good for the system.
Come on now, this is really overdrammatic. There are more a bunch, plenty is an exaggeration.
 
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