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Is Nintendo going too far shutting down fan games?

Zee-Row

Banned
According to this guy from the Washington Post , he says Nintendo should let them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rio-site-is-illegal-heres-why-it-shouldnt-be/


Like any child of the 1980s, I was excited to discover Full Screen Mario, a meticulous recreation of "Super Mario Brothers" built on the latest Web standards. Not only does it let you play the original 32 levels, it also offers randomly generated new levels and even the ability to design your own. And the software is open source, allowing others to add features.
There's just one problem: Nintendo says it infringes its copyrights.
"Nintendo respects the intellectual property rights of other companies, and in turn expects others to respect ours as well," Nintendo said in an e-mailed statement. "Nintendo is seeking the removal of the content, as we vigorously protect against infringement of our intellectual property rights."
The site's author, college student Josh Goldberg, concedes that he didn't get permission from Nintendo to create the site. He says he wasn't worried about the copyright implications when he started working on the site last year because "I didn't think it would be a big project." Now that it's getting broader attention, he says, "I honestly don't know what to do in this situation."
James Grimmelmann, a legal scholar at the University of Maryland, believes Nintendo would have a strong case in court. He says the graphics and music from the game are protected by copyright, and the levels and game mechanics likely are as well. "I could cite you case after case involving less literal copying than this," he says.
That's a shame, because in a sane copyright system, "Super Mario Brothers" would be falling into the public domain within the next few months. Which would allow Full Screen Mario, and lots of projects like it, to reimagine old video games for a new generation, without facing legal threats from incumbents like Nintendo.
When the United States was founded, the maximum copyright term was 28 years. "Super Mario Brothers" was registered with the copyright office in January 1986, so if copyrights still lasted for 28 years from the date of registration, the game would be due to expire in about three months. Then anyone would be free to re-create the game, as Full Screen Mario does, or to create new games based on its groundbreaking characters, levels and music.
Unfortunately, in the past 200 years, Congress has dramatically expanded copyright terms. For a work with a corporate author — in this case Nintendo — copyrights now last 95 years. That means "Super Mario Brothers" is scheduled to fall into the public domain in January 2082. And that's assuming Congress doesn't extend copyrights again in the meantime.
Full Screen Mario is just one example of the ways long copyrights impoverish our gaming culture. The site supports user-designed levels, so it's easy to imagine a community of amateurs designing Super Mario levels and sharing them with friends as people do today with "Minecraft."
And because the software is open-source, others could extend the software or incorporate it into their own products. Consider "Super Obama World," a satirical game based on "Super Mario World." Creating a game like that from scratch is a lot of work, but it would be a lot easier to do if people could start with the Full Screen Mario codebase. Game designers could also incorporate parts of "Super Mario Brothers" as a "mini game" within modern video games.
Long copyright terms have also crippled the market for emulators, which reproduce outdated video game consoles in software. That allows people to play older games on modern PCs and even smartphones. These old video games became obsolete long ago, but they're still technically copyrighted. And in most cases there's no legal market for purchasing electronic copies of them. That effectively limits the emulator market to people who are willing to break copyright law and able to scour file-sharing networks for copies of old games.
If copyright terms were shorter, old video games could find a new, emulated life when their copyrights expire, just as the Gutenberg project has made thousands of books published before 1923 freely available online. That's especially important because old consoles wear out much faster than old books do. If you find a book published in 1980, chances are you'll be able to read it without much difficulty. But if you find an old Atari video game cartridge, you might struggle to find the Atari 2600 console required to play it.
Imagine if every new smartphone came by default with a free app that let you play any arcade game created before 1985. Long copyright terms prevent that dream from being a reality.
The gaming industry's greatest loss from long copyright terms is the way they impoverish new video games. We only have to think of "Cinderella," "Apocalypse Now" and the many film adaptations of "Romeo and Juliet" to see how new culture is often built on cultural innovations that came before it. Nintendo, of course, still creates new games in the Mario Brothers franchise. But in a better copyright regime, we could have lots of people creating clones, sequels and re-interpretations of "Super Mario Brothers." Other classic video games of the 1980s, such as "Donkey Kong," "Pac Man" and "Galaga" are ripe for the same treatment. But copyright law stands in the way.
But don't video game companies need copyright protection to encourage them to produce new video games? Of course they need some copyright protection, but 28 years is plenty. Most games make the vast majority of their revenue in the first few years after release. Only a tiny majority of mega-hits such as Super Mario Brothers are still commercially significant after 28 years. And those games have already made their investors' money back many times over.
We've had long copyright terms for so long it's hard to imagine what the world would look like without them. But copyright is supposed to be a bargain between creators and the public: Creators get a monopoly for a limited number of years, and after that, the public gets to use their works for free. But copyright terms are now so long that most of us will die before the videogames of our childhoods fall into the public domain.
 
When the United States was founded, the maximum copyright term was 28 years. "Super Mario Brothers" was registered with the copyright office in January 1986, so if copyrights still lasted for 28 years from the date of registration, the game would be due to expire in about three months. Then anyone would be free to re-create the game, as Full Screen Mario does, or to create new games based on its groundbreaking characters, levels and music.

Too bad. Create your own brilliant game and characters.
 
Hm, an article arguing against copyright and the protection of intellectual property.

I'm shedding tears for all the people out there unjustly not allowed to steal and copy the work of other people.
 
No, Nintendo isn't going too far. If you want to play Super Mario Bros., you have plenty of legitimate ways to do so. It's only $5 on all three of Nintendo's VC services. Or go buy it for $1 on Ebay.
 
What a strange article. Suggesting 28 years for copyright in our era? If this was actually followed, Star Trek, Star Wars, all the Marvel + DC comics, etc., would be in the public domain, and anyone who wanted could film their own Batman vs. Star Wars movie. Come to think of it, that sounds like a good idea.
 
Just so y'all [[
WONDERFUL PEOPLE
]] know, copyright and IP law made it impossible for MST3K to keep running, and holds back 90% of the aired episodes from being released to the public.
 
Not when the fan game literally uses assets from the game....

Article took a strong anti-copyright stance there at the end, and not one I'm sure I agree with. Would the world be a better place with Mario in the public domain?
 
Just so y'all [[
WONDERFUL PEOPLE
]] know, copyright and IP law made it impossible for MST3K to keep running, and holds back 90% of the aired episodes from being released to the public.

Don't they only use movies in the public domain in the first place...? At least for MST3K, not Rifftrax, obviously.
 
Nintendo rarely shuts down fan games. I'm surprised they haven't done anything to Project M actually.

Edit: He is trying to make money out of a Nintendo IP? I see the problem.
 
Nintendo is generally pretty chill about fan games as long as it's not for profit and you don't re-distribute their assets or content. Seems like a reasonable enough stance for the most part, not nearly as draconian as what Square-Enix did to shut down that Chrono Trigger fangame a few years back.
 
Reminds me of that guy in the 'Nintendo characters on Windows marketplace' thread that called freedom of expression.

:lol
 
Don't they only use movies in the public domain in the first place...? At least for MST3K, not Rifftrax, obviously.

Yes, a lot WERE in the public domain, but then in the middle of the show running Disney changed the length of the law, basically meaning they had to stop the show and can't sell most episodes.
 
He talks about Minecraft creations, but if people make a spinoff game using that engine they still have to pay Notch too.
 
Nintendo is generally pretty chill about fan games as long as it's not for profit and you don't re-distribute their assets or content. Seems like a reasonable enough stance for the most part, not nearly as draconian as what Square-Enix did to shut down that Chrono Trigger fangame a few years back.

Square-Enix is also the only company I know of that goes after ROM hacks, too. Crazy shit.
 
Nintendo's actually pretty friendly towards fan games using their IP, fan translations, fan mods, etc.

This specific one is trying to make money, that is why they are stepping in.

The real asshole company that goes after everything is Square. It pains me that Chrono Trigger Resurrection never happened.
 
Applying it narrowly to Nintendo is a little strange, but I'm all for scaling copyright duration back to some sane length of time. If crappy fan games are the price we pay, then so be it.

Unfortunately, politics being what they are, it's more likely that no significant/marketable IP will ever have its copyright expire, ever again.
 
It pains me that Chrono Trigger Resurrection never happened.

This is why our system was the way it was before. Things like this. People who grew up with whatever thing it was being able to carry the torch essentially. We're robbed of that because of Mickey Mouse.

kElgH.gif
 
I don't agree with Nintendo taking down fan videos of its games for play throughs and such though I'm with Nintendo on this one. Nintendo has a right to protect its own IP.
 
Nintendo has the right to protect their IPs.

People should be bitching to the 'Happy Birthday' people before they start going after video games.
 
The problem is when you draw a line.

What is the diference from crap Zelda sprites ripped in IOS games and something like the Full Screen Mario ?

People are winning money (with web ads or ios store) with something that nintendo did, using the job of nintendo's artists and the job of the developers and even the job of the coders who set for such a physics system.

Free games would be another thing, but after google ads nothing is really free anymore


edit : it is kinda lovely that the OP copied the entire text so we don't need to give the site some views ;D
 
Talk about missing the point. Do you understand why there is an expiry on copyright?

A copyright which has been renewed by Nintendo multiple times by Nintendo, I'm sure. The original Super Mario Bros. is still being sold by Nintendo, so it is not abandon ware, nor has the copyright run out on it. FullScreenMario.com (pretty awesome find, BTW) is essentially giving away the entire game of Super Mario Bros. for free without any consent from Nintendo. Nintendo has every right to close down such a site.

The same thing more or less applies to fan remakes as well. Since fan remakes are a recreation of the original works. Unless of course you can get permission from the developer/ publisher, like the Black Mesa Source developers did from Valve.


Don't they only use movies in the public domain in the first place...? At least for MST3K, not Rifftrax, obviously.

The original television station that MST3K was affiliated with had the rights to show those movies. Those rights never granted them permission to sell the movies in home video form.
 
Wanting to make a fan piece is one thing, and Nintendo is usually totally cool with it.

Wanting to use their assets? Be original, make your own content.
Wanting to make a profit off someone else's IP? Be original, come up with your own ideas. You have no right to make money by re-purposing someone else's IP.

Want to make money? Go out and make your own IP with its own assets like *gasp* Nintendo did when they created Mario.
 
In this scenario, HELL NO. Mario is the most precious franchise in videogame history. You're going to let every John, Akira, and Gunther fart out flash remakes?
 
Maybe. I'd have to hear a wider variety of examples to weigh in more generally. That said, a literal recreation of one of their games complete with the same visuals, music, controls, etc definitely begs Nintendo's attention. I can't see what's so unfair about protecting their intellectual property,
 
This is why our system was the way it was before. Things like this. People who grew up with whatever thing it was being able to carry the torch essentially. We're robbed of that because of Mickey Mouse.
Admittedly Mickey Mouse seems to be more to blame for the recent extensions of the last few decades, not the one that jumped from 28 years. And with better means of preservation and longer lives it does make sense to put that stuff under longer coverage.

Still, the Mickey Mouse extensions are bullshit, and there definitely are possible issues that we went to the opposite extreme: so much stuff gets created so frequently that stuff older than 28 years old is effectively irrelevant more often than not and as such can get lost (or would if it weren't for piracy.) At a minimum those damn Mickey Mouse extensions should end if nothing else than to at least bring us in line with the rest of the world, but even those old limits are of debatable worth.

EDIT: Though generally I favor a creator having a monopoly on it until they die at the least, which gets blurrier for corporations but certainly it seems all or at least most of the original SMB staff are alive, and the same goes for most games.
 
I can't help but see how incredibly biased this article is, I mean this is Nintendo ' s right and you're not entitled to have their properties as public domain content.
 
Site violates copyright law, whats the problem? Does he think that people should be able to get a compulsory mechanical license for a video game?

Now, if you want to talk about revising copyright law, I would really prefer it was reverted to 55 years after date of publishing/authors death like it was before Copyright Act of 1976. 95 years of protections really is excessive. And I bet that lobbiest are going to try and have Congress raise it even more in the next decade.
 
I remember watching StephenVlog, and he mentioned why Earthbound couldn't come to VC, in that the website staff of the guys who made the awesome Mother 3 translation met with some Nintendo people.

Aside from the reason that EB had copyright problems, they were also told that by the Nintendo executives that Nintendo supported the fan translation completely
just couldn't openly).

If that's not being nice about others using their ips, I don't know what is.
Just don't try to profit from it
 
If Nintendo didn't fight every incursion, then they run the risk of losing control completely.
They have to protect their property. It sometimes makes them look like a bully, but not everyone who wants to exploit the Mario brand is some kid in a bedroom working on a non-profit fan project.
Just look at the amount of Mario/Pokemon crap that gets released on Android everyday.
 
Considering that the fan game was trying to profit off of it and that it tried to make the official game themselves for free (when it can be found for very cheap and Nintendo still profits off this game), I'm glad Nintendo took action to close this website down. Siding with Nintendo for this one.
 
I remember watching StephenVlog, and he mentioned why Earthbound couldn't come to VC, in that the website staff of the guys who made the awesome Mother 3 translation met with some Nintendo people.

Aside from the reason that EB had copyright problems, they were also told that by the Nintendo executives that Nintendo supported the fan translation completely
just couldn't openly).

If that's not being nice about others using their ips, I don't know what is.
Just don't try to profit from it

I think this is a little different as the translation was released as a patch and not a full ROM. Releasing a patch for a ROM is every bit as legal as releasing an emulator to play a ROM on. Downloading the ROM for the game is illegal if it still has a copyright holder and said holder didn't give any permission to release it in ROM form on the net.

But trying to fight pirated ROM's is such a never ending uphill battle that there is much less interest in trying to stop it.
 
Reminds me of that guy in the 'Nintendo characters on Windows marketplace' thread that called freedom of expression.

:lol

To me too...bah! I can't understand why is so hard for some people to understand the legitimate ownership of IPs...
 
Doesn't work on Firefox, fuck that. Nintendo can shut it down, fan projects are nice but not when they try to make money from IP's they don't own (e.g recent closures of FF kickstarters: "but we are the biggest FF fans in the world!")
 
Why can't these fans just do it anonymously / use handles, knowing full well how some companies are? It should be about the game, not about establishing a name for yourself, so there's no reason to have your real name on it.
 
If IP holders want to stop fan made games, that is up to them. I think anything that can sell your base game is good though.

Not quite the same, but how do you think Bohemia feels about letting people use Arma 2 to make Day Z?
 
I doubt Nintendo is doing it gleefully. It's how you stay alive in business, simple as that.


It would be hilarious if Miyamoto turned out to be a ruthless IP troll though.
 
Why don't you explain why 28 years is a good time despite the fact that the author is still alive and making money off his creation?
Which has nothing to do with the post I quoted, or my post. :/ The amount of time is not what I was debating, but that they should expire at all.
A copyright which has been renewed by Nintendo multiple times by Nintendo, I'm sure. The original Super Mario Bros. is still being sold by Nintendo, so it is not abandon ware, nor has the copyright run out on it. FullScreenMario.com (pretty awesome find, BTW) is essentially giving away the entire game of Super Mario Bros. for free without any consent from Nintendo. Nintendo has every right to close down such a site.

The same thing more or less applies to fan remakes as well. Since fan remakes are a recreation of the original works. Unless of course you can get permission from the developer/ publisher, like the Black Mesa Source developers did from Valve.
I am not talking about abandonware or anything like that, but the continual extension of the term of copyright over the years. Copyright is for a fixed term from the creation of the work. That length of time keeps getting extended whenever Mickey is near going public domain. Copyright is not a trademark.
 
Not quite the same, but how do you think Bohemia feels about letting people use Arma 2 to make Day Z?
More customers and/or potential DayZ standalone customers.

Also for the modder himself: potential employee! Well, now an active employee.
 
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