-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Valve is Trying to Stop People Suing Them
- Thread starter MRORANGE
- Start date
derExperte
Member
EULAs are almost completely meaningless in Germany, changing them even more so and we don't have class action lawsuits. So I don't care, nothing has changed.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
While less consumer rights are shitty, I have been part (unknowingly) of a few class action suits, and I can't think of one that compensated me in any remarkable way. But I'm sure the lawyers were paid handsomely. So while it sucks, its just not something that I really feel that strongly over (from any company). Then again I have an Origin, Desura, Steam, Impulse/Gamestop, Gamersgate, gog account, so none of it really bothers me I guess lol, well except the old ea pay extra to be able to download your games later on, that they seemed to have done away with.
Jake McLargeHuge
Banned
It's funny to see the logic in some people's thoughts in this thread:
"I've never needed to file a law suit against Valve = I'll never need to file a law suit against Valve"
By that crazy logic you could reach conclusions such as "We don't need firemen, 99% of buildings don't ever get burned! What are the odds?"
And if you think Valve has never given you a reason to sue them, well think again: they just did... They (as well as a lot of other companies, yes) are trying to invalidate your trial rights. That'd be reason enough for me, but thankfully I live in a country where such a T&C agreement is laughably invalid.
"I've never needed to file a law suit against Valve = I'll never need to file a law suit against Valve"
By that crazy logic you could reach conclusions such as "We don't need firemen, 99% of buildings don't ever get burned! What are the odds?"
And if you think Valve has never given you a reason to sue them, well think again: they just did... They (as well as a lot of other companies, yes) are trying to invalidate your trial rights. That'd be reason enough for me, but thankfully I live in a country where such a T&C agreement is laughably invalid.
I hope it just cements in peoples minds that like every other company out there, Valve are looking out for numero uno. Why people continue to place them upon a pedestal just boggles the mind. They are as anti-consumer as the rest of them.
In Germany, you have a kind-of class action lawsuit in only one area: mass capital market transactions. All other civil issues are not subject to class actions.
There isn't anything currently or in the foreseeable future in my Steam game library of a value great enough to compel me to give a lawyer money to get some kind of compensation.
In fact I would pay to make law firms poorer, if this saves Valve some legal costs, awesome, where do I pay. Has there ever been a class action lawsuit in the gaming industry that directly benefited gamers and was the reason for positive change rather than make a handful of lawyers rich? yeh didn't think so.
In fact I would pay to make law firms poorer, if this saves Valve some legal costs, awesome, where do I pay. Has there ever been a class action lawsuit in the gaming industry that directly benefited gamers and was the reason for positive change rather than make a handful of lawyers rich? yeh didn't think so.
You know things are fucked up when Valve gets on the same boat trying to stop class-action lawsuits.
In the end, the only people getting screwed over are normal customers who don't want to take advantage of every little damn thing out there, but have the right to do it when it actually matters. Kind of like... Piracy and paying customers
Oh well, people will move on about this a week from now and go on their merry way. :/
/clicks on the "I agree" button
In the end, the only people getting screwed over are normal customers who don't want to take advantage of every little damn thing out there, but have the right to do it when it actually matters. Kind of like... Piracy and paying customers
Oh well, people will move on about this a week from now and go on their merry way. :/
/clicks on the "I agree" button
la flama blanca
Banned
Eh, I don't care really. If you don't like it, don't participate in their business.
butter_stick
Banned
How much were you paying a month to use Steam?
14.95 Hats
And this isn't even the exception it's how perverse the legal system has become. I'm happy to refuse any participation in it.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Pre new TOS - I love Steam have my children praise thy master
Post new TOS - I have to find something to sue about and tell my friends about it!
Come on people, some logical folks have already pointed out how this happens. This never stopped me from using any other service which does the exact same thing. Good grief, some of you >>
And his is just 1 example. I'm not saying there aren't some suits which aren't legit and warrant true compensation but on something like DD services or games, suing wouldn't even generate you much of a "reward".
Also, paying dat lawyer tax lol
Post new TOS - I have to find something to sue about and tell my friends about it!
Come on people, some logical folks have already pointed out how this happens. This never stopped me from using any other service which does the exact same thing. Good grief, some of you >>
And his is just 1 example. I'm not saying there aren't some suits which aren't legit and warrant true compensation but on something like DD services or games, suing wouldn't even generate you much of a "reward".
Also, paying dat lawyer tax lol
Holy Order Sol
Member
Joke's on you for treating this as a person-to-person relationship in the first place.
read this, it's a lot less sensational
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...-prohibits-class-action-lawsuits/#more-118376
Haunted
Member
It's so not a big deal for 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of consumers. Of course, this is GAF, where everything is a Big Deal.
Schweinehund
Member
I agree with class action lawsuits, they mostly benefit the attorneys...
The arbitration/small claims thing is ridiculous. There's no way that benefits the consumer at all.
edit: RPS article covers it a bit better. Didn't realize they covered your court fees regardless of outcome under $10,000.
The arbitration/small claims thing is ridiculous. There's no way that benefits the consumer at all.
edit: RPS article covers it a bit better. Didn't realize they covered your court fees regardless of outcome under $10,000.
Yeah after reading that I dont get what all the drama is about. You can still sue as an individual.
That's actually why I don't think this is a big deal, despite the fact I'm not happy I'm forced into the new terms. Class Action Lawsuits are normally worthless to the single individual involved in it. The lawyers are the ones who bank. From what I'm reading, Small Claims Court is still a valid avenue a consumer can take if need be. If someone has a beef, he/she will have a much better chance at reclaiming more money back in Small Claims Court than a Class Action Lawsuit.
ManUtdRedDevils
Member
1. Haven't a good percentage of clickwrap agreements been successfully beaten in court?
2. Without offering any consideration to customers that entered into agreement with Valve pre-new EULA, how enforceable is it really?
I like Steam and Valve hasn't done anything to breed distrust, but I hate how their statement says that we will benefit from this. How exactly is this good for us? Just because you say so? Very corporate talk from Valve is unusual.
2. Without offering any consideration to customers that entered into agreement with Valve pre-new EULA, how enforceable is it really?
I like Steam and Valve hasn't done anything to breed distrust, but I hate how their statement says that we will benefit from this. How exactly is this good for us? Just because you say so? Very corporate talk from Valve is unusual.
Tylahedras
Banned
These forced arbitration clauses are a joke, basically you buy something and the firm is allowed to take away your right to due process.
And this is allowed because arbitration is cheaper for government then court cases.
Disgusting garbage, and upheld by the supreme court no less. One step closer humans being stamped cattle.
And this is allowed because arbitration is cheaper for government then court cases.
Disgusting garbage, and upheld by the supreme court no less. One step closer humans being stamped cattle.
Interfectum
Member
A lot of people on GAF are prone to knee jerk reactions about things they don't fully understand. It's best to just sit back and watch.
bu bu Valve is taking away my freedoms lol
Class action suits are good for small claims. You're not going to sue someone for $50 by yourself, as the costs would outweigh the payout, but class action suits allow it to be done if you and a large group of people have been wronged. Sure, lawyers make money, but I'd rather not give up my rights so a couple lawyers don't get paid.
1. This particular provision is supported by a SCOTUS decision. So if you're in the US, it's legally enforceable.
2. No idea.
It's "good" in the sense that should you wish to take Valve to small claims court or arbitration, they will cover the cost of YOUR fees even if you lose if they are under $10,000. Good luck getting that from a class-action lawsuit.
Interfectum
Member
If Valve truly does something to wrong thousands of customers, they will be sued and they will lose. These terms are less anti-consumer and more anti-lawyer.
Anything that makes lawyers less money is a good thing in the long run.
Well, doesn't the provision that Valve will cover your costs up to $10k cover precisely this scenario?
Interfectum
Member
Consumers could benefit from this because less frivolous lawsuits means Valve is spending less money on lawyers and more money on developers. In theory anyway...
The problem with the argument is Valve would have to screw up big time for a class action lawsuit to be formed in the first place. Even with these rights taken away, if Valve screwed up so badly people would want to CAL their reputation would be so damaged it would be tough for them to recover. You also have local law in areas which would supercede this EULA and a class action lawsuit would attempt to form anyway.
So unless you truly expect Valve to put the screws on their customer base, this is worrying for the sake of it with no real motive behind it.
Interfectum
Member
Exactly.
If it ever gets to the point where thousands of gamers tried to sue Valve and Gaben said "nayh nayh you cant sue me" then their business would be over anyway. Valve thrives on the goodwill of hardcore gamers. They lose that, they lose their business.
If this were in an American court, the judge would have to write a very ironclad opinion as to why his ruling does not contravene the SCOTUS decision on the matter.
faceless007
Member
The whole "but class actions are only used to enrich lawyers" nonsense misses the point. Legally, class actions are supposed to be a recourse available to me as a consumer if I've been wronged as a group. Now they aren't. Explain to me how this benefits me?
faceless007
Member
Because EA has such problems getting people to use Origin because they're so horrendously anti-consumer?
Gamers are complacent. DLC, online passes, faulty hardware, they'll put up with anything so they can play the next game day one.
Omega_Tom_Hanks
Banned
Good. I resent the fact we live in a society that's constantly clambering toward litigation. Valve are a reasonable company that relies largely on their perceived image in the gaming community, if they were to do anything particularly egregious it would be cancer to their organisation. I have faith enough in them that they aren't going to brutally fuck anyone over, if I didn't I wouldn't use their service in the first place, in the same way I don't use Origin (which isn't a terrible service, it just has a terrible company at the helm).
Interfectum
Member
If Valve did something egregious enough to warrant a legit class action lawsuit but they wiggled out of it in the courts that would hurt their business badly long term. Steam users represent a bigger percentage of informed, hardcore PC gamers than a publisher like EA.
shinobi602
Member
Again, how is this legal?
I thought the right to sue was a federal right...?
I thought the right to sue was a federal right...?
Interfectum
Member
That should pretty make take care of any dispute you would ever have with Valve. And they will pay your fees.