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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed

M

Magni

Member
EazyB said:
Update on my thoughts so far (new stuff in bold). It'll be interesting to see how they change with more info being released and time with the beta. Was really hoping for some more in depth gameplay description from the edge article but having read it, it's more in line with the GI article than I wanted. Hopefully they'll get into some of the nitty-gritty on the podcast next week.

Great:
  • Focus on natural environments and ambient life.
  • "... darker tone overall... not going for that desaturated modern war movie vibe."
  • More huge battles
  • Lighting looks great. Is it fully realtime though? Will my forge maps have proper lighting?
  • Return of the hitscan! FINALLY. Come play against US players from across the Atlantic and you'll understand why.

Good:
  • New LOD and "imposter" system.
  • Campaign starts at the beginning of the invasion. The possibility of an amazing covie reveal scenario.
  • DMR. Sounds like a cool guy. On a related note, it sounds exactly like the CE pistol, so the magnum in reach must be different in some way - I hope it won't be a shitty throw away weapon like it is in Halo 3. :(
  • Seems like they added a little more depth to the melee combat. Still hope they don't force use to use predominately CQC weapons and incredibly high rates of melee like in Halo 3. I've said this before countless times, H3's melee is overpowered and oversimplified. Halo used to be a thinking man's game even for melee combat!
  • Stealth. Although using the camo ability, running, and hiding until it recharges sounds boring as hell. Hopefully that's not a viable way of getting through such levels on legendary.
  • LWG customization. Hopefully they'll go all out with it in MP (visual permutaion, performance ones I'm not to sure of). Visual I have no problem with, but performance I'm waiting for more info.
  • No elites in MP. Frees up the elite models to be huge and badass once more. FINALLY!
  • Customized character carries over multiple game modes.
  • Grades and credits, depending on what they are exactly, could really add some more replayability to the campaign/co-op.

Concerned:
  • Is the DMR a replacement for the BR? Is so, why,? If not, ignore the following: Halo has always lacked a healthy variety of mid-range weapons thus causing simpler people to complain that some weapons get used to often. Halo 3's mid-range palette consisted of the BR and the carbine. There's no need to take out the BR when Reach (so far) has only the carbine (assumed), DMR, and the needle rifle. Which lead to my next concern. Can't wait to see how Bungie'll have sorted them out during the Beta, and hope I won't have to bitch too much :lol
  • The needle rifle. I really hope it has no homing abilities whatsoever. The range of the homing Halo 3 needlers is bad enough as it is. 3 shots to detonate? Those better be 3 headshots to detonate or 6 regular shots or this thing better have an incredibly slow rate of fire. In what way is the gun a "headshot" weapon?
  • Armor abilities. "There was a problem with equipment in earlier games. You would pick a piece up, you really wouldn't understand what it was, and then you'd use it and waste it." Totally! I have the same problems with grenades, I pick it up, and then being the dumbass I am, I'd use it and waste it. Give me regenerating grenades please. I realize there are reasons beyond these, but that quote just came off as dumb as the whole "Not enough disc space for the BR" thing. Anyways, I really don't know what I'd think of this sort of thing if it were implemented the same way in MP. "Used as often as grenades"? :/
  • "Improved radar". Although I prefer having no radar, I can stomach Halo 3's because there's still some ambiguity to it. Now with height reporting it's become a super radar that'll reduce the need for real environmental awareness and team communication. Sure it may be off for a handful of gametypes but most playlists will include this super radar if Halo 3 is any indication. What's next, just putting waypoints over everyone's head? Wait & see.. and worry a lot..
  • Increasing the co-op teleport distance. I'd put this in the good/great section but knowing Bungie there'll be enough invisible walls to negate any exploration that would've been worthwhile.

Bad:
  • Skirmishers don't sound like a worthwhile replacement for brutes. Why aren't brutes included as well as the weapons and vehicles they used? Spike grenades are confirmed to be gone and we'd lose the spikers, hammers, and bobsleds - who cares (but they could've been improved to add to the sandbox). We'd lose the brute shot and the brute chopper though which were both served fantastic roles in the sandbox. Their swiftness could make them fun to headshot though. There's no way they'll look good but they could be fun to fight. Brute sandbox could stay for MP, I'm waiting to see if we'll get a Skirmisher sandbox :lol
  • Seems like they're still trying to force the AR down our throats. Hopefully it'll have a tighter spread, much slower fire rate, and headshot give the play an actual advantage in order to evolve it past spray, pray, beatdown. It depends on how the MP is set up but I don't want to have to spawn with a fully-auto sprayer. I also don't want to be aiming the DRM and landing headshot only to have someone outgun me at midrange because they were spraying madly with the AR. I hope to nothing I won't be seeing this in Reach (H3 AR gunplay).
  • Return of VISR. They're overhauling the lighting system of the game only to thrown in a vision mode that outlines everything with hard edges and masks the dark atmosphere. Encountering an elite in a dark room by passing a flashlight past them was the epitome of fear. Didn't like it all that much in ODST but I especially don't want it in Reach. Return of the H1 NV would have been WIN, this is just meh..

Fucking thing sucks:
  • Return of the health bar/packs. "Encourage exploration?" More like annoy the shit out of players who'd rather just keep having fun instead of wander around first. If you want to encourage exploration, how about getting rid of all those damn invisible walls. When I was exporing shit in CE it was because I knew if I tried hard enough I could get somewhere unexpected and potentially awesome, not so much because I wanted to stop that annoying beep noise. I hope to god that shit doesn't make it over to MP. I like that they're extending the time it takes for shields to recharge though. Yay for return of healthpacks. Don't let your shields go out if you don't want to pick 'em up :lol
  • Seriously, there better be choppers in this fucking game. There will be hell to pay if I can drive some lame as truck around but not the chopper. Vehicle combat without the chopper in the sandbox is boring as hell. Don't care much more Choppers, maybe they'll be in MP for you. Brute sandbox DLC for 1200 MSP on launch day :lol
  • The assassination mechanic. Is the spectacular animation really necessary. Is it going to be like assassin's creed where all the enemies stop shooting at me so I can complete this animation in peace or will I just get mowed down as my character finishes this elaborate animation? Context sensitive combat sucks. The moment I fail to complete start the animation because the AI switched from unaware to aware without my knowledge I'll hate it forever. They're really putting this shit in MP? "allows the player to shit-talk their opponent?" Give me a break. Alright for SP, but keep that shit away from MP.
Click to expand...

My added thoughts underlined.

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To whoever was concerned about the new radar, this is good for FFAs. I've asked for a while for half of team games to be radarless (see this thread I posted nearly two years ago in the Optimatch forum)
me in April 2008 said:
Gametypes

Slayer is regular Slayer just like it is now, except with Magnum as a secondary so that you spawn with a headshot capable weapon as well, just not as versatile as a BR. That way instead of having to resort to the AR+Melee at spawn you'd have the option to go for the headshot after having lowered the shields with the AR or a frag. Just to bring some variety to the current deafult Slayer games.

As for Slayer Pro, it's my take on Slayer BRs. You'd still spawn with a BR, but with an SMG secondary (you can't have the AR in every gametype, and the SMG needs its love. Just because it sucked in H2 doesn't mean we shouldn't use it in H3). It'd also have no radar. And before someone tells me "you already have MLG for that"
MLG: BR start / no radar / MLG gametypes = 110 speed / 110% damage / 90% shield regen / MLG maps
Slayer Pro BR/SMG start / no radar / Bungie gametypes = 100% speed / 100% damage / 100% shield regen / Bungie maps

No gametype (IIRC) has no radar in MM except for MLG. Why should regular TSlayer be 100% radar?
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GRU, rehost your *images* NOW! :D

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edit: My fix for the Laser: you can only charge while the reticule is Red. Thoughts?
 
D

Devil Theory

Member
If you don't want to be lasered, don't let the other team get it.
Click to expand...

This is pretty irrelevant since it's all based on the fact that you have a team that perfectly understands how to tactically play against a particular weapon, at a particular time, on a particular map; otherwise it's based on if you're good enough to do it yourself. It's very easy to horde and control any weapon in Halo against any team, whether they're really good or really bad, so long as you know how to navigate the map and keep a distance between you and them, which means that unless you have a team that's playing actively in getting it back, you don't have a good chance of getting control of it if the rest of your team is dying and losing control of the entire map / match to begin with. It's a chain-effect, lose one power weapon, lose them all.

This isn't the case every single time, but a good majority.
 
L

Louis Wu

Member
bobs99 ... said:
No instant assassination, why? Assassinating people is awesome and is pretty rare/ hard, 3rd person animations would be jarring and just potentially slow.
Click to expand...
Wait, what? According to Bungie.net, about 5% of my kills are assassinations. That's not rare - that's more kills than I get from all weapons except BR, AR, and plasma grenade!

Bungie hasn't said they're out - just that they'll be using the beta to DECIDE if they're out. Don't panic yet.
 
S

squidhands

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Bear in mind, this is coming from a guy who special-ordered the new Cinefex issue to read the 80-page story on how Avatar was made, because the zillion behind the scenes videos out there just weren't detailed enough. I'm just really fascinated with the process of creation, so that's the stuff I tend to zero in on.
Click to expand...
Same. Pleasure to meet like-minded folks. It's one of the reasons I forge so much more than I actually play; I enjoy the building process and looking at how other well-made maps are built. Helps that I come from a construction background.:D

MagniHarvald said:
edit: My fix for the Laser: you can only charge while the reticule is Red. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Have it plug in directly to your armor, reducing the effectiveness of your shields and reduce it's regen time. Not drastically, mind you; it's still necessary to withstand some vehicular assault until you're able to utterly destroy them. Just enough to help someone think twice from running around constantly charging it up.
 
R

Ramirez

Member
kylej said:
Good lord someone actually understands the laser.

Laser is a good barometer for how good your team is. If the other team is always holding it and keeping your vehicles dead, it's because they're better than you and you deserve to lose. Period. Laser is to vehicles what rockets are to spartans.



If you don't want to be lasered, don't let the other team get it.
Click to expand...

Bologna, if the teams are evenly matched, the team who gets laser first probably wins 90% of the time. The laser takes no skill and is basically the AR of power weapons. I'm surprised you like the laser. I wish it were just rockets and missle pod, at least the pod can be dodged and if I get killed by a rocket in a vehicle I know the guy had to have at least half decent aim.

Standoff is a perfect example of why the laser sucks, get it and go all the way to the back of your base where nothing can harm you. The guys on the other team are basically forced to camp inside their base because coming out means certain death. Then if you do die outside, you'll continue to spawn outside and get waped.

Perhaps if Standoff had a sniper this could alleviate some of it's problems because I don't have as much of an issue with the laser on Valahalla for this reason.
 
S

Sill4

Member
Louis Wu said:
Wait, what? According to Bungie.net, about 5% of my kills are assassinations. That's not rare - that's more kills than I get from all weapons except BR, AR, and plasma grenade!

Bungie hasn't said they're out - just that they'll be using the beta to DECIDE if they're out. Don't panic yet.
Click to expand...

I'm with Wu. People shouldn't worry (speculate, but don't worry until BETA at least) about Bungie "messing up" Reach.

And about the Chopper/ghost being identical, it's juts not true. Maybe vaguely similar, but still different enough to play a major part of the Halo vehicle balance.

The ghost can strafe. BIG DIFFERENCE since it shoots very deadly plasma. If you get showered with ghost for a second, you are screwed.

Chopper on the other hand CANNOT strafe. If you pilot a Chopper into a situation where enemies can get next to you, then you need to go back to Chopper School, because you just got served. Also, the Chopper cannon is actually not too great at killing things. Even enemies on foot can take a few shots before dying. It's main purpose is to knock shit around, which it does wonderfully.

Now I understand that some of you don't like it and won't miss it, and that's fine. But it IS its own unique vehicle that cannot be replaced by any other vehicle in the sandbox (that we currently know of).

-edit- I forgot to mention, but the Ghost is more like a quick, silent assassain while the Choppz is more like a linebacker with a meat grinder attached to him.

Like a bee and a dung beetle. Or Wolverine and the Juggernaut.
 
A

Apath

Member
Falt said:
>_>
Click to expand...
:lol
Not exactly what I meant. I meant it isn't like the rocket launcher or rocket pods where after fired you can maneuver out of it. Once it's fired it's only limited by where the reticule was pointing at.
 
K

kylej

Banned
Ramirez said:
Bologna, if the teams are evenly matched, the team who gets laser first probably wins 90% of the time. The laser takes no skill and is basically the AR of power weapons. I'm surprised you like the laser. I wish it were just rockets and missle pod, at least the pod can be dodged and if I get killed by a rocket in a vehicle I know the guy had to have at least half decent aim.
Click to expand...

On what map, Valhalla? Valhalla gives you 12 sniper rounds every 3 minutes. If you can't push top mid with that then you deserve to lose. I could give a shit about the laser itself. It's the only weapon that kills the monstrous Halo 3 vehicles with any certainty. I mean replace laser with banshee on Valhalla. The laser is gone from the map and now a skilled team has full control over the banshee. The banshee team will probably start up a hog too. Now you can have someone walk into the enemy base after clearing it with banshee and force outside spawns. They'll also waste missile pod for you and grab fresh enemy snipe to pick off those stragglers who spawn top mid. With a banshee up high and a hog down low the outside spawns are basically an immediate death sentence, or if they do spawn in the base it's impossible to leave without dying.

Vehicles are like AR x 1000. No ammo limit, massive shields and they'll cut through individuals like butter. I don't care if the laser's gone as long as every single vehicle is nerfed except maybe the chopper because that thing is hard as fuck to use.

Standoff is even easier to fight back against laser. You've got 10 rocks to hide behind right outside your base. There are like 5 exits and entrances, a camo and rockets right outside too. Want to know why it's hard to get those when the other team has laser? Because the warthog is circling around your base and it's impossible to kill. You're crazy if you think a 5 shot laser being held by someone across the map keeps people hiding in their Standoff base.
 
R

Ramirez

Member
kylej said:
On what map, Valhalla? Valhalla gives you 12 sniper rounds every 3 minutes. If you can't push top mid with that then you deserve to lose. I could give a shit about the laser itself. It's the only weapon that kills the monstrous Halo 3 vehicles with any certainty. I mean replace laser with banshee on Valhalla. The laser is gone from the map and now a skilled team has full control over the banshee. The banshee team will probably start up a hog too. Now you can have someone walk into the enemy base after clearing it with banshee and force outside spawns. They'll also waste missile pod for you and grab fresh enemy snipe to pick off those stragglers who spawn top mid. With a banshee up high and a hog down low the outside spawns are basically an immediate death sentence, or if they do spawn in the base it's impossible to leave without dying.

Vehicles are like AR x 1000. No ammo limit, massive shields and they'll cut through individuals like butter. I don't care if the laser's gone as long as every single vehicle is nerfed except maybe the chopper because that thing is hard as fuck to use.

Standoff is even easier to fight back against laser. You've got 10 rocks to hide behind right outside your base. There are like 5 exits and entrances, a camo and rockets right outside too. Want to know why it's hard to get those when the other team has laser? Because the warthog is circling around your base and it's impossible to kill. You're crazy if you think a 5 shot laser being held by someone across the map keeps people hiding in their Standoff base.
Click to expand...

This is the point I was making, once one team gets the laser and a hog up it's lights out on that map, OR it turns into a boring campfest which is even worse.

I don't know how to fix it really, you could give both sides a laser, or like you said, nerf the vehicles. A lot of this would be irrelevant if you could actually kill a vehicle with one sticky grenade, no idea why they changed that.

Then on the other hand you could say that maps like Standoff and Valhalla have no business being in TS to begin with their current setup, a lot of this doesn't come into play when it's objective gametypes.

Oh well.
 
P

Pete Rock

Member
kylej said:
Want to know why it's hard to get those when the other team has laser? Because the warthog is circling around your base and it's impossible to kill. You're crazy if you think a 5 shot laser being held by someone across the map keeps people hiding in their Standoff base.
Click to expand...
Does one not follow the other absolutely directly? Isn't the reason the enemy Warthog is 'circling around your base... impossible to kill' in the first place because you don't have the Laser? Because there is one of them and it's spawned in the middle of the map like this is Quake 2 CTF circa '98? Plasma grenades and brute shots are not an effective counter against a warthog driver/gunner on Standoff who are not effectively retarded. I'm not saying things would be better if there was a laser in each base - two wrongs don't make a right, and Standoff Heavies is proof enough of that.

"Halo: Reach for us is not Halo 4."

I really hope this rings true, because if it plays like Halo 3 in any fashion I won't even bother. If they don't shitcan the BR, the Laser and 1-hit lunge backslaps then I will simply :lol

Ramirez said:
I don't know how to fix it really, you could give both sides a laser, or like you said, nerf the vehicles.
Click to expand...
Have no weapons that dominate every aspect of the map, and don't put them on the elevated section of geometry in between both bases? :D
 
S

squidhands

Member
Standoff could use some missile pods where the BR is in the back of the base. There's enough ground variation to keep is from totally dominating the vehicles, and at least it would give a team a fighting chance if they're forced to hole-up in their base.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
squidhands said:
Same. Pleasure to meet like-minded folks. It's one of the reasons I forge so much more than I actually play; I enjoy the building process and looking at how other well-made maps are built. Helps that I come from a construction background.:D
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Heh. That probably explains all the time I spend in Forge as well (and the half dozen or so map that got through to completion). Though in my case, I work on corporate finance process design. (And am currently strategizing how to parlay that into getting into the industry, though without any progress.)
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
big ander said:
Chopper and Warthog are the most balanced vehicles in the game, and I'll be disappointed if there's no proper replacement for the former. The chopper is my favorite vehicle when there's no Hog around.
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I strongly disagree with this statement, but more so for the chopper than the warthog. The guns on the chopper are way too powerful. The only vehicles that can withstand the guns from the chopper without being flipped over/slowed down/stalled are the tank and the wraith. The chopper should work as a ramming vehicle because of it's boost and it's huge engine. The guns should either be nerfed or removed.

Scullibundo said:
I've always wished for Pelicans to be pilotable and have been disappointed every time. I think with a few really huge maps and some Pelicans there could be some great team games.
Click to expand...
You're not the only one. I doubt we'd see them in MP, but the chance to drive them in the Reach campaign is still a possibility, albeit a very low one.

Kapura said:
It's hard to dodge if you're dicking around the map whithout regard for keeping some cover. If you, however, fly/drive cautiously until you team can neutralize the threat of the laser, you will encounter more vehicular success. Laser is primarily an antivehicle weapon, so it's the job of the people on foot to secure it.
Click to expand...
No. The spartan laser is a very overpowered weapon that really kills one of the most enjoyable aspects of Halo for me: the vehicle combat. The only way to doge a laser shot is if the person using the laser sucks at aiming or isn't even trying. There's no useful way of dogding it, and it's a one-hit kill on nearly all vehicles except of the tank.

The missile pod is a much more balanced anti-vehicle weapon. It's not an instant-shot, so you have a chance of getting behind some cover when you hear the lock-on sound, and if one hits you, you're not screwed.
 
S

Sill4

Member
If Pelicans and Scarabs make it into the game as usable vehicles, I have no delusions about them being included in MP. I seriously believe that they would be SP only.

If anything, hopefully we can use the Falcons as Pelican stand ins (again, for SP only).
 
I

Ironborn

Banned
Sill4 said:
If Pelicans and Scarabs make it into the game as usable vehicles, I have no delusions about them being included in MP. I seriously believe that they would be SP only.
Click to expand...
i'm pretty sure a scarab is not a vehicle but a sort of exoskeleton controlled by the orange lekgolo-worms (the same worms that form hunters)

but yeah, piloting a heavily armed pelican/falcon would be pretty badass
or maybe just a short on-rails sequence as the gunner of one of these aerial crafts
not really something you'd expect in halo, but if it's short and action packed, i, for one, would welcome it

edit: yeah, you could pilot scarabs in halo wars, but FUCK halo wars (canon-wise, i liked the gameplay)
 
E

EazyB

Banned
Ramirez said:
This is the point I was making, once one team gets the laser and a hog up it's lights out on that map, OR it turns into a boring campfest which is even worse.

I don't know how to fix it really, you could give both sides a laser, or like you said, nerf the vehicles. A lot of this would be irrelevant if you could actually kill a vehicle with one sticky grenade, no idea why they changed that.

Then on the other hand you could say that maps like Standoff and Valhalla have no business being in TS to begin with their current setup, a lot of this doesn't come into play when it's objective gametypes.

Oh well.
Click to expand...
Having tested it out just a week ago, a single sticky doesn't take out a hog in Halo 2. Can't say exactly how different vehicle damage was in Halo 2 but this seems to be a common misconception.
 
S

soldat7

Member
Reward my sticky with an instant kill against Hogs, Banshees, and the like. That's my only request.

At least incapacitate it to some degree...
 
S

Sean P.

Member
Ironborn said:
i'm pretty sure a scarab is not a vehicle but a sort of exoskeleton controlled by the orange lekgolo-worms (the same worms that form hunters)
Click to expand...

Halo 3 made it seem that way, but Halo 2 when you have to jump onto the scarab and kill the two elites controlling it makes it seem otherwise.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
scently said:
GI new reach feature is up, Its about Marty and the music of HALO REACH.
Click to expand...
Pretty cool video. Much better than the last article they put up. Though, I have a hard time figuring out what's in this center screen:

2110.marty610.jpg
 
S

soldat7

Member
Sean P. said:
Halo 3 made it seem that way, but Halo 2 when you have to jump onto the scarab and kill the two elites controlling it makes it seem otherwise.
Click to expand...

I've stopped caring about continuity. Life is better for me now.
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
EazyB said:
Having tested it out just a week ago, a single sticky doesn't take out a hog in Halo 2. Can't say exactly how different vehicle damage was in Halo 2 but this seems to be a common misconception.
Click to expand...


Neither does it in Halo 3. Tried it even yesterday, no luck.

One thing I'd like better in Reach is.. what should I call it.. vehicle hit detection?

Very often I run someone over with a ghost at full speed and they don't die. I've even been boarded while doing this(wtf?)
Sometimes the other guy jumps over the ghost and just gets hit in the legs but doesn't even lose his shield.

I know most of what causes this can be attributed to lag, but I've had this happen in lagless games or even LANs.
Another cause could be that I suck but it happens way too often.

Does anyone agree?
 
N

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
Dax01 said:
Pretty cool video. Much better than the last article they put up. Though, I have a hard time figuring out what's in this center screen:

2110.marty610.jpg
Click to expand...

pretty sure that is just them setting out on the "mission" at the end of the trailer.
 
K

kylej

Banned
Pete Rock said:
Does one not follow the other absolutely directly? Isn't the reason the enemy Warthog is 'circling around your base... impossible to kill' in the first place because you don't have the Laser?
Click to expand...

Yeah but why should you need the laser to kill a hog? The whole point of my argument is that all these people who cry about the laser and how overpowered it is never say anything about the vehicles. The laser exists because the vehicles are too strong.

Imagine Standoff with no laser. My team catches your hog with a sticky grenade as soon as it spawns. We start our hog up. The rest of my team pushes and we control your rocket rock and camo tree. Bingo, same exact situation as the current map with laser.

Could the maps be better balanced? Absolutely. Any map with the slightest amount of thought put into it will have a proper physical layout for power weapons. On The Pit you can let the enemy team push rocket hall while you rush their snipe through OS. It's a gamble, and depending how you play it, either team has a shot at gaining map control.

Could there be a better system in place to help balance vehicle and on foot skirmishes, or at the very least new map layouts to try to bring a more balanced fight? Sure, but the guy in charge of matchmaking takes two fucking months to remove a fusion coil from Valhalla so any discussion about that is pointless.
 
S

squidhands

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Heh. That probably explains all the time I spend in Forge as well (and the half dozen or so map that got through to completion). Though in my case, I work on corporate finance process design. (And am currently strategizing how to parlay that into getting into the industry, though without any progress.)
Click to expand...
Player Investment Design Lead

I haz solid math skillz, but it's too long of a commute from Austin.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
soldat7 said:
Reward my sticky with an instant kill against Hogs, Banshees, and the like. That's my only request.

At least incapacitate it to some degree...
Click to expand...
They'll destroy weakened vehicles, but not fresh ones. You can screw with ground-basd ones depending where you stick it. As a professional on-foot Warthog hunter, I thought the balance was pretty good.

As for the laser - I'm not opposed to it in concept, but there are modifications needed in its return. Though my preference is really for it not to come back: the anti-vehicle weapons were handled well without it. In Halo 2 you had the all-powerful homing rocket launcher, but the separation of duties between the missile pod and the rockets in Halo 3 worked well. It didn't need a third long-range vehicle killer.
 
S

Sean P.

Member
Gui_PT said:
Neither does it in Halo 3. Tried it even yesterday, no luck.

One thing I'd like better in Reach is.. what should I call it.. vehicle hit detection?

Very often I run someone over with a ghost at full speed and they don't die. I've even been boarded while doing this(wtf?)
Sometimes the other guy jumps over the ghost and just gets hit in the legs but doesn't even lose his shield.

I know most of what causes this can be attributed to lag, but I've had this happen in lagless games or even LANs.
Another cause could be that I suck but it happens way too often.

Does anyone agree?
Click to expand...

I agree, happens way too often.

I'll be (on the rare occasion) using a ghost, coming up behind a guy like HELL YEA GONNA SPLATTER YOU, just to have him bounce of the front of my ghost that is moving at full speed.

This is why I prefer the chopper, when it hits someone, even just barely, it kills them, and its consistent. If they made the ghost that consistent it would be less of a problem, but otherwise I'm going to miss the chopper greatly.

They should also make a useful spectre to counter the hog, that would be fun.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
The laser is either a godsend or a nuisance depending on whether you like vehicles or not, I do think the laser in its current form effectivly ruins vehicle combat HOWEVER vehicles in theyre current form are too strong as it is and effectivly ruin infantry combat :lol

Thats why I think a laser that takes 2 shots to kill will be perfect, the vehicles have the warning of being shot once but are still really vulnerable.


Wu, I understand where your coming from but until the beta all we can do is speculate! - Im sure Bungie knows what theyre doing but ive seen a lot of situations where a quick assassination on a player with a power weapon and then killing his teammates with the weapon while theyre turning on him has changed the flow of a game, if your stuck in a animation for a few frames you wont have the chance to deal with the enemys surrounding him.

Im not sure what my percentage of assassinations is but its bound to be higher than the niche weapons considering I spawn with the ability to do it, I know its rare enough to make me happy at any rate :D

As I said though you speak the truth we dont know how its being implimented and Bungie has the beta to decide either way
 
B

big ander

Member
Dax01 said:
I strongly disagree with this statement, but more so for the chopper than the warthog. The guns on the chopper are way too powerful. The only vehicles that can withstand the guns from the chopper without being flipped over/slowed down/stalled are the tank and the wraith. The chopper should work as a ramming vehicle because of it's boost and it's huge engine. The guns should either be nerfed or removed.
Click to expand...
I feel it's balanced as it is now because of what Eazy said earlier: it's very vulnerable from the back. If a warthog or ghost flies in front of it, it will get taken out almost every time. But if you move behind the chopper, the thing will go down fast, and it's up to the chopper driver to turn their vehicle around fast. And since the chopper can be hard to maneuver, it's often only a skilled driver that can avoid that kind of attack. But I see where you're coming from, and weakening the guns for whenever its next appearance will be wouldn't be a horrible idea.


kylej said:
Yeah but why should you need the laser to kill a hog? The whole point of my argument is that all these people who cry about the laser and how overpowered it is never say anything about the vehicles. The laser exists because the vehicles are too strong.

Imagine Standoff with no laser. My team catches your hog with a sticky grenade as soon as it spawns. We start our hog up. The rest of my team pushes and we control your rocket rock and camo tree. Bingo, same exact situation as the current map with laser.

Could the maps be better balanced? Absolutely. Any map with the slightest amount of thought put into it will have a proper physical layout for power weapons. On The Pit you can let the enemy team push rocket hall while you rush their snipe through OS. It's a gamble, and depending how you play it, either team has a shot at gaining map control.

Could there be a better system in place to help balance vehicle and on foot skirmishes, or at the very least new map layouts to try to bring a more balanced fight? Sure, but the guy in charge of matchmaking takes two fucking months to remove a fusion coil from Valhalla so any discussion about that is pointless.
Click to expand...
I agree, the vehicle-to-infantry combat could be balanced better by messing with map layouts and weapon/vehicle/powerup placements.
With your example: I'm fine with the fact that the team that can, in the first minute of the match, take out our hog and prevent anyone from capturing our rockets or camo, is probably deserving of a win. But say after the hog gets 7 or so kills with outside spawns forced (red guy in blue base), a blue guy manages to stall the hog, stick it, flip it, drain it, anything, and destroy it. Red still has the lead, but blue's coordinated well enough to have a chance at a comeback. But the laser prevents any chance of that comeback happening because of how easy it is to use it from long range at the back of red base and take out any offensive the blue's put together.
Now I'm not saying the laser needs to be taken out. With the right tweaks, that situation is perfectly fair. Say the laser has to be fired after beginning the charge and it has longer recharge time. Then the team can come from two sides and confuse the laser guy and take him out. If they can't take him out in a situation where the laser is less powerful than it is now, then red team is clearly more skilled and deserves to win.
 
B

BerserkerBarage

Neo Member
I've always been of the opinion that sticky grenades on a vehicle should stall the vehicle similar to the effect of a charged PP or Drainer hitting it. Maybe not of the exact amount of time either of those 2 stalls it, but stalls it none the less. I don't want to stick a hog then watching it fly off into the distance like Evil Knievel on meth. If that still has to happen, I want to know that they'll be stuck in that location for an amount of time that I can subsequently finish it off with either another grenade or team-shooting.

I was excited to read about the improved explosion physics/graphics in Reach only to be depressed that the Brute Shot will not be returning. I think that was a great weapon in idea but had terrible results. For a grenade launcher with a scythe attached, it was as weak as hitting someone with a pool noodle.

I was happy to see that in one of the pictures from the Edge release an Elite carrying a Carbine. I'm hoping that means that we'll see it return to compliment the Covenant weapon hierarchy. Since it will equate to the BR >> DMR with the Carbine >> Needle Rifle. Any specific word on whether or not the Needle Rifle is 3x zoom like the DMR?

~B.B.
 
N

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
soldat7 said:
Reward my sticky with an instant kill against Hogs, Banshees, and the like. That's my only request.

At least incapacitate it to some degree...
Click to expand...

Sometimes it depends where you stick it, even then it can be a little inconsistant.

I have stuck a Hog right on the hood at the start of a match and it gets taken down. Other times have done the samething and it suffers only a scratch. :lol

In a match on Sandbox though did have someone throw a frag at a Hog I was driving and it went off killing me and the gunner but not the Hog itself. :/
 
N

NOKYARD

Member
soldat7 said:
At least incapacitate it to some degree...
Click to expand...
It should be the same effect as hitting it with a charged plasma shot from a PP, while also lowering the shields of the occupants. Much like when you flip a hog with a frag it would be up to the grenade tosser to finish off the vehicle, while giving the passengers a fighting chance.

[Edit]
BerserkerBarage said:
I've always been of the opinion that sticky grenades on a vehicle should stall the vehicle similar to the effect of a charged PP or Drainer hitting it.
Click to expand...
Come on coffee, kick in.
 
S

Sill4

Member
I keep seeing people talk about how vehicles are "overpowered" and it bothers me.

I mean, what do you expect from a warthog? For it to fall apart if you as much fart in it's path?

It seems that many people here prefer to be on foot with a BR in hand pulling off headshots, and that's fine!

But I see people claiming vehicles are overpowered monsters that need to be nerfed...yet lasers are no problem and IN FACT can be easily avoided by using available cover. But vehicles can't?

Whenever I play big team in halo, only one or two people actually use the warthog(s). As soon as the game starts, people just rush out to grab weapons, which like I said is fine. It's important to control the weapons.

But for fuck's sake people (that I play with) use the damn warthog. It's just sitting there! But no they don't. Then when the other team (usually a bunch of damn gaffers) start destroying us with warthogs, you hear people bitching about vehicles. Then comes the quitting.

This is how every game plays out on Standoff for me, whether I'm on the winning or losing team.

/rant
 
D

Devil Theory

Member
One thing I'd like better in Reach is.. what should I call it.. vehicle hit detection?

Very often I run someone over with a ghost at full speed and they don't die. I've even been boarded while doing this(wtf?)
Sometimes the other guy jumps over the ghost and just gets hit in the legs but doesn't even lose his shield.

I know most of what causes this can be attributed to lag, but I've had this happen in lagless games or even LANs.
Another cause could be that I suck but it happens way too often.

Does anyone agree?
Click to expand...

That's because Halo is run on lag, just like CoD is. You're running away from someone, on their screen you're still there in the open, on yours you made it around a corner. This isn't latency lag, it happens all the time. When you die, it pulls you out from around the corner, and you're staring at the screen going "what the fuck?"

90% of the problems and issues in Halo can be either contributed to lag (such as walking into a sniper trail and dying, despite the fact that the bullet was shot more than 2 seconds earlier), or uneven weapon balance. They need to stop making focus points in multiplayer, forever.

The whole lag/detection/hitbox thing can be applied to everything in multiplayer.
 
B

BerserkerBarage

Neo Member
I don't think I've ever had problems with the hog unless the people in the hog are H3WM. And I guess for the sheer amount of time and dedication those guys put into mastering the thing, they should get a little vehicle domination.

The problem is that people always look to Standoff (and to a lesser degree Sandbox) as an example of vehicle domination. When it's really not. The problem with Standoff is mainly a spawn issue. And then lesser an issue with lack of ways to effective take down the hog. If the Brute Shot actually worked like it was suppose to work and spawned in the base, I don't think Standoff would even be mentioned.

At least the laser on Standoff spawns at regular intervals as compared to Avalanche. Or did they finally get around to changing whether you can force-spawn the laser on Avalanche? I've been playing less BTB recently.

I'd still like to see plasma grenades stall vehicles though. That one thing would make a big difference IMO.

~B.B.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Sill4 said:
I keep seeing people talk about how vehicles are "overpowered" and it bothers me.
Click to expand...
Generally speaking, vehicles are not overpowerd in Halo 3. People who act like they are just don't use the anti-vehicle tools correctly.

Edit: the fuck?
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
Sill4 said:
I keep seeing people talk about how vehicles are "overpowered" and it bothers me.

I mean, what do you expect from a warthog? For it to fall apart if you as much fart in it's path?

It seems that many people here prefer to be on foot with a BR in hand pulling off headshots, and that's fine!

But I see people claiming vehicles are overpowered monsters that need to be nerfed...yet lasers are no problem and IN FACT can be easily avoided by using available cover. But vehicles can't?

Whenever I play big team in halo, only one or two people actually use the warthog(s). As soon as the game starts, people just rush out to grab weapons, which like I said is fine. It's important to control the weapons.

But for fuck's sake people (that I play with) use the damn warthog. It's just sitting there! But no they don't. Then when the other team (usually a bunch of damn gaffers) start destroying us with warthogs, you hear people bitching about vehicles. Then comes the quitting.

This is how every game plays out on Standoff for me, whether I'm on the winning or losing team.

/rant
Click to expand...

I guess Halo 3 works pretty well then, the team that controls the anti vehicle weapons can use vehicles and utterly demolish the other team, however if the other team gets a laser its game over lol.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
GhaleonEB said:
Generally speaking, vehicles are not overpowerd in Halo 3. People who act like they are just don't use the anti-vehicle tools correctly.

Edit: the fuck?
Click to expand...

i dunno, i think grenades should def. do more damage against vehicles (ie warthogs)
 
R

Ramirez

Member
If we can't have the Halo theme Marty, can you at least give us a remix of Covenant Dance, prz. On a snow level for full effect.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
op_ivy said:
i dunno, i think grenades should def. do more damage against vehicles (ie warthogs)
Click to expand...
They don't destry a new Warthog, but they will destroy one that's taken a bit of damage. I've toasted new 'Hogs by softening them up with some BR or SMG fire followed by a stick. More than half the time I stick one, it's toast.
 
S

Sill4

Member
BerserkerBarage said:
I'd still like to see plasma grenades stall vehicles though. That one thing would make a big difference IMO.

~B.B.
Click to expand...

This really a great idea.

Another idea, though much less likely to happen, is for explosions to permanently fuck up the steering of a non-tank vehicle, either by blowing the tires or warping the axis (for Covenant stuff...uh, by decombobulating the hyper hover drive?).

I remember WAAAAAY back before Halo 2 came out reading about how you could destroy certain parts of vehicles to expose the fuel tank to small arms fire. That sounds like a viable way to please anti-vehicle peeps without actually nerfing the power of the vehicle too me.

-edit- Wait, is it confirmed that the BETA will include a demo of Single Player/co-op? I'm so confuzzled.
 
F

FoolsRun

Member
big ander said:
I'd be all for march, but I'm guessing May also.
Click to expand...

Based on the description of an item at last year's Child's Play charity dinner, May will be the earliest. One of the auctions was a tour of Bungie and the chance to play the beta before everyone else, and the offer was valid any time during the month of April.
 
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