Well, over a million is a stretch even to professional studios.
I was only joking though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
So You Have an Idea for a Game..
- Thread starter Arksy
- Start date
Well, over a million is a stretch even to professional studios.
I was only joking though.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Yeah, the biggest problem i hear regarding people making their own games/mods is overestimating how much they can actually implement.
If you do decide to take up programming, you should pace yourself and start small.
This is the absolute best advice you can give to anyone just starting, but interested in ultimately distributing.
Never do something ambitiously large unless you absolutely have the know how and a team to back you up.
You'll notice nearly all the successful indie games with only 1 or 2 developers are very simple graphically and mechanically. Most don't choose pixel art to be artsy, that's a lie.
Also, be sure that you know EVERYTHING that you need to know about your game before actualy making it.
"it will be a mix of Star Fox and X-Wing" don't work ... you need to know every diference, every mission, every level design, EVERYTHING that you will not hire someone to do.
Think about what makes the games like that compeling, analyze then and try to reproduce your favorite parts with changes in each level.
You want to make a compeling story .. so WRITE the story.
If it is a good story that works on book format, it WILL work outside it.
It needs to be something compeling enoght so a person don't sleep if they are reading again, since you need to add replayability to the game.
"it will be a mix of Star Fox and X-Wing" don't work ... you need to know every diference, every mission, every level design, EVERYTHING that you will not hire someone to do.
Think about what makes the games like that compeling, analyze then and try to reproduce your favorite parts with changes in each level.
You want to make a compeling story .. so WRITE the story.
If it is a good story that works on book format, it WILL work outside it.
It needs to be something compeling enoght so a person don't sleep if they are reading again, since you need to add replayability to the game.
I know exactly how you feel OP.
There is a big difference between just having an idea and thinking "Oh that would make for a neat game" and actually spending many hours building a real, fully developed concept.
Once you start to work on all the details of how your game would work you begin to realise how difficult it is to build a good full game around your idea.
It is comforting to know that I'm not the only person to have wasted many hours of my life perfecting a game the will never exist and working out the nuts and bolts of how the whole thing will come together.
At first it is very discouraging as you realise that a lot more thought will need to be put into your original idea to flesh it out into a full game.
But as you come up with new ideas and figure out how to make all the pieces fit together it becomes extremely satisfying and encouraging as the ingenious ways in which your game can come together become clear.
As your concept moves from being just an idea you had for a game to a complex design of a real game concept, you look at the games being developed and released today and you think triumphantly to yourself "This is what the industry needs! Games like this! This is revolutionary!".
It's a lovely feeling.
But I'm not here to be optimistic for you OP.
You have reached the point where your work will stop giving you a warm and fuzzy feeling of pride and accomplishment and you will instead be forever haunted by a feeling of bitter disappointment and uselessness.
There is almost no chance at all whatsoever that your game will ever really be developed into an actual product unless you are a millionaire or have near limitless amounts of free time and dedication.
If you actually managed to find people who will help you develop it for free then it will either a) Never be even close to finished (most likely) b) Be ruined by the lack of skill and experience of the people building it or c) Be changed beyond recognition by the people working on it because they "had a much better idea".
If you wanted to get a job in the industry... first of all; good luck with that, and secondly; the number of people in the industry who have the ability to actually get their game idea made with the creative control to ensure it isn't ruined is pretty damn small.
Those people have either been very lucky or have dedicated their lives to getting into that position.
And if you were planning on doing it yourself...
If you actually want to be a good game with decent production values then you are looking at many years of learning the various areas of game development you will need.
The huge number of hours you will need to put in will all be unpaid until you have an actual product to release.
I'm sorry to be so pessimistic OP, but the fact is that you have reached the end of the line with your idea.
I know exactly how painful it is to have to accept that.
If you want my advice:
Put your creative effort into writing, anyone can write a novel and you are unrestricted in the size and scope of its content.
It costs nothing and you are left with an actual finished and consumable product at the end of it.
Sure you probably won't make any money from it, but I am willing to bet that all you want is to see your game idea become a reality and don't care about profiting from it.
There is a big difference between just having an idea and thinking "Oh that would make for a neat game" and actually spending many hours building a real, fully developed concept.
Once you start to work on all the details of how your game would work you begin to realise how difficult it is to build a good full game around your idea.
It is comforting to know that I'm not the only person to have wasted many hours of my life perfecting a game the will never exist and working out the nuts and bolts of how the whole thing will come together.
At first it is very discouraging as you realise that a lot more thought will need to be put into your original idea to flesh it out into a full game.
But as you come up with new ideas and figure out how to make all the pieces fit together it becomes extremely satisfying and encouraging as the ingenious ways in which your game can come together become clear.
As your concept moves from being just an idea you had for a game to a complex design of a real game concept, you look at the games being developed and released today and you think triumphantly to yourself "This is what the industry needs! Games like this! This is revolutionary!".
It's a lovely feeling.
But I'm not here to be optimistic for you OP.
You have reached the point where your work will stop giving you a warm and fuzzy feeling of pride and accomplishment and you will instead be forever haunted by a feeling of bitter disappointment and uselessness.
There is almost no chance at all whatsoever that your game will ever really be developed into an actual product unless you are a millionaire or have near limitless amounts of free time and dedication.
If you actually managed to find people who will help you develop it for free then it will either a) Never be even close to finished (most likely) b) Be ruined by the lack of skill and experience of the people building it or c) Be changed beyond recognition by the people working on it because they "had a much better idea".
If you wanted to get a job in the industry... first of all; good luck with that, and secondly; the number of people in the industry who have the ability to actually get their game idea made with the creative control to ensure it isn't ruined is pretty damn small.
Those people have either been very lucky or have dedicated their lives to getting into that position.
And if you were planning on doing it yourself...
If you actually want to be a good game with decent production values then you are looking at many years of learning the various areas of game development you will need.
The huge number of hours you will need to put in will all be unpaid until you have an actual product to release.
I'm sorry to be so pessimistic OP, but the fact is that you have reached the end of the line with your idea.
I know exactly how painful it is to have to accept that.
If you want my advice:
Put your creative effort into writing, anyone can write a novel and you are unrestricted in the size and scope of its content.
It costs nothing and you are left with an actual finished and consumable product at the end of it.
Sure you probably won't make any money from it, but I am willing to bet that all you want is to see your game idea become a reality and don't care about profiting from it.
NotoriousLynx
Banned
Nobody wants an "ideas guy". Sure, if you do go to school to design AAA titles on par with Zelda, Final Fantasy, or Halo, then you can become a game director, but there isn't really any point of being a director of an indie game (which sounds like the direction of this game). I used to be an "ideas guy" but then I downloaded a lot of free software such as Blender, XNA, the trial version of Photoshop (which for some reason, was suppose to stop a month ago, but I have it still, maybe I misread something), and I'm going to get a drawing pad soon (pretty good artist, won a few minor, local awards, but nothing like big). While no one should really try to tackle 3D modeling or programming, I'm looking for which direction I want to pursue.
Even if you are a director, you still need knowledge of all of these programs to some extent. For one, you should probably release an independent game to show off your skill at game design. Nobody will want to work for you if you have nothing to prove your skills.
But I have a question for everyone. I'm in the time of my life where I'm searching for colleges, obviously, I want to go into game design, myself, so would the University of Southern California be the best place to attend? They have a division for Interactive Media and many websites seem to say that's the best place for game design. However, many people also say just go to college for Computer Science, mostly in case you want to quit gaming, you have other possibilities. I'm definitely never going to quit game design, so I guess the answer seems obvious. A better question would be is it worth it to attend USC compared to some local college for Computer Science?
Never kickstart a first game or a game that is just an idea. I've seen kickstarters where some a-hole uses an RPG tutorial to make a $6000 successful kickstarter. I don't even know why people would donate to him. I also see a lot of games that are just ideas, and the video is just people talking into the camera. I would rather see concept art, even alpha alpha gameplay, or some demonstration of how the game would play like and the tone of the game, especially since I'm donating money to it.
Even if you are a director, you still need knowledge of all of these programs to some extent. For one, you should probably release an independent game to show off your skill at game design. Nobody will want to work for you if you have nothing to prove your skills.
But I have a question for everyone. I'm in the time of my life where I'm searching for colleges, obviously, I want to go into game design, myself, so would the University of Southern California be the best place to attend? They have a division for Interactive Media and many websites seem to say that's the best place for game design. However, many people also say just go to college for Computer Science, mostly in case you want to quit gaming, you have other possibilities. I'm definitely never going to quit game design, so I guess the answer seems obvious. A better question would be is it worth it to attend USC compared to some local college for Computer Science?
Never kickstart a first game or a game that is just an idea. I've seen kickstarters where some a-hole uses an RPG tutorial to make a $6000 successful kickstarter. I don't even know why people would donate to him. I also see a lot of games that are just ideas, and the video is just people talking into the camera. I would rather see concept art, even alpha alpha gameplay, or some demonstration of how the game would play like and the tone of the game, especially since I'm donating money to it.
j0hnny_385
Member
Have some inspiration:
Don't give up OP. Start learning. Get some books, download XNA or UDK and do SOMETHING, ANYTHING.
Humble origins: The solo odyssey behind 'Dust: An Elysian Tail'
Dean Dodrill: father, animator, and self-taught game designer. This is his four-year journey to create the game of his dreams.
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/9/4/3275249/humble-origins-behind-dust-elysian-tail
Don't give up OP. Start learning. Get some books, download XNA or UDK and do SOMETHING, ANYTHING.
I'll be straight with you. I'm in the industry, and trust me. Everyone has what they consider great game ideas, mechanics layed out etc. Ideas are a dime a dozen. GDDs are great, but until you've been in a development cycle, you wouldn't realize how GDDs are insanely different from the game when its shipped. So having a great GDD isn't enough. Things will change. Mechanics will change. What sounds good on paper may suck when you actually play it.
This is why "simply lacking the technical skills" makes me laugh. I don't say that cruelly, just that that statement is incredibly naive. You either:
A) have enough money to hire the people that do
B) learn the technical skills to execute on your idea
Technical skills are a must if you want to create a game. Ideas are easy, execution of the ideas is the hard part. The part you spend 1-2+ years, grinding away to create an experience people finish in hours. I think the industry comes off as defensive a lot when it comes to this subject, but it's only because we put our blood, sweat and tears into what we make, so it's difficult to handle the "armchair designers" and their perceptions.
just my .02
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Love the FAQ: "You have millions why not fund this project yourself?"
Your best bet would be to make some friends in the industry. Trouble is, that's going to take some work and a lot of trust, so make sure you be honest with how you're going about it and enthusiastic for other people's ideas. Try hanging around dev forums for a bit, maybe even learn to code yourself a prototype or two.
Heart of Black
Member
No.
Nope.
People get bogged down in these things, and sure, it's probably more important on a larger scale, but working with a few people it's easier to just be very flexible and talk about things more than just putting them in a document.
I have a doc, sort of. It changes all the time as the game does. But nothing beats playtesting and talking about it.
Sentenza
Member
I don't see how having a design document and being ready to adapt to circumstances should be mutually exclusive things.
And yeah, many projects start without a proper design document... And in fact, most of them suck in the end.
Not really sure where you're getting that most projects don't have one. Publishers require this kind of documentation.
Sentenza
Member
1) Fixed the sentence for increased accuracy
2) I wasn't really talking about big commercial projects in this case
3) Once they have nailed the budget publishers can be surprisingly prone to overlook design documents that are exceedingly superficial about game mechanics.
Or at least that's how i try to explain the existence of games like Assassin's Creed, Far Cry 2 or Oblivion.
But even many indie games start with very vague ideas like "I want to make an open world game about a wandering swordfighter" without investing too much effort deciding the details from start.
Look at Wolfire's Overgrowth and their videoblogs about the game.
They keep adding features and improving small technical things and yet every time Rosen talks he hints about how he's still trying to decide how the game will play exactly in the end.
Conciliator
Banned
Also you might try Ken Levine's strategy of graduating from college with an unrelated degree, answering a job ad in a gaming magazine and then make one of the most important companies in the history of video games pay you to design games for them until you become internet famous and found your own business.
Read this
http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html
It is a decent, if slightly out of date, rundown of what the opportunities are in terms of moving forward with an idea.
whalleywhat
Member
Send me all of your ideas and I'll tell you whether they're any good for $19.95.
I am finally trying to program an idea for a game I wanted to try for years now
No graphics to speak off, still need custom button graphics and I just finished the basic game setup (not even damage so far), but I am getting there! Maybe I actually finally finish programming a game.
If you have an idea , try programming and start small! The payoff for learning programming was totally worth it. If your initial idea is too big, try thinking of a smaller start.
No graphics to speak off, still need custom button graphics and I just finished the basic game setup (not even damage so far), but I am getting there! Maybe I actually finally finish programming a game.
If you have an idea , try programming and start small! The payoff for learning programming was totally worth it. If your initial idea is too big, try thinking of a smaller start.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Ideas aren't worth shit, it's the execution that matters.
Do you really think that the reason for such a limited range of games is a lack of ideas?
Game development is hard.
It requires time, money and determination to push on to finish development and game balancing when it's no longer fun any more.
Chances are that if this is your first game, you won't get any where. Once you scratch the surface of what's required you'll realise what a huge task you have ahead of you.
If you're working with others on this, the project is even more likely to fail.
Do you really think that the reason for such a limited range of games is a lack of ideas?
Game development is hard.
It requires time, money and determination to push on to finish development and game balancing when it's no longer fun any more.
Chances are that if this is your first game, you won't get any where. Once you scratch the surface of what's required you'll realise what a huge task you have ahead of you.
If you're working with others on this, the project is even more likely to fail.
Wow. Great read. Thank you. I have a fair background in business before I started doing what I currently do. Starting up your own studio might not be totally out of the question. I suppose it's useful to treat making a game like you would any other product.