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Cleveland police officer shoots 12-year-old boy carrying BB gun

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C

Chie Satonaka

Member
If he looked like an adult, the police should have used even more caution as he could have been an open carry nutter.

The police are wrong. Full stop. There's no excuse, no justification. We have this on video, and people are still justifying it.

The cops are in the wrong, the dispatcher is in the wrong. Why do people continually shift the blame on the citizen when the public servant are the ones doing wrong?

I'm getting fed the fuck up. What the hell is it going to take?
 
Juke Joint Jezebel

Juke Joint Jezebel

Member
Loofy said:
They pretty much all do. I dont how its legal to sell that stuff. Probably the NRAs way to ensure young kids become future members.
http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/beretta-px4-storm-airgun/6000145594342
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Not even a coloured tip or coloured parts of the gun to differentiate it from an actual real gun? Not having a easily recognisable telltale mark seems incredibely stupid and irresponsible. BB and airsoft guns over here in the UK usually have a really obvious colour tags on the grips or bodies.
 
A

abuC

Member
commedieu said:
HOLY FUCKING SHIT?!?!?@?#!?, are you kidding me? At 12?!!?!?!?!?!!!!!13..34$%5.33.4%6. π
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I leveled off, I'm 6'2" 245lbs today, my father is 6'6" 260lbs.

My nephews were 10lbs 8oz at birth and the other was 8lbs 10oz and he was born two weeks early, both are in the 98th percentile for height/weight now, we're big people.
 
N

not psycho

Member
If I'm understanding correctly, people are trying to defend the officers by saying that, due to their own incompetent, out-of-control driving, they ended up right next to the boy and then had to immediately shoot him because they thought he was going to pull, or was starting to pull, a gun?

I don't think that argument holds water. First of all, because (especially in an open carry state) the level of negligence involved in rushing in and shooting a startled target based on the reports they had, already should be criminal in my view. Messing up badly is not, bizarrely, a get out of jail free card. Second, because there were ways to avoid the confrontation even given the initial insane driving; they could have steered away from the scene, coming back when they had themselves under control.
 
N

not psycho

Member
ssolitare said:
How was the driving reckless or even remotely OOC? They intentionally came in strong.
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For the OOC part, I was going by this:

Syriel said:
(and according to the police statement, when they pulled up, the car was out of control since they skidded on the wet grass).
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For the incompetent part, I'm going by the fact that they pulled up very close (which was actually a vulnerable position for them if the boy had been someone dangerous) and shot him within seconds (not giving him enough time to grasp the situation). If that is what "coming in strong" means, then coming in strong was the wrong decision in this situation.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Syriel said:
No they didn't. They came in stupidly fast and (by their own admission) skidded on the wet grass.
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That's not at all how you approach anyone as a cop

especially if they're armed

Just to be clear. Their approach was factually inappropriate and wrong in every single scenario as police officers. There's simply never a good reason to do it. Ever.
 
N

Necrovex

Member
People are bringing up the video. Would anyone link me to it? I didn't see it in the OP, and I would like to see the same thing everyone else is watching.
 
C

Corgi

Banned
Read this on circa, not sure if old.

Loehmann was an officer in Independence, Mo., until 2012. He was in the process of being fired when he quit. Internal memos documented several incidences, including crying and not following instructions during firearm training, that "show a pattern of a lack of maturity, indiscretion and not following instructions."
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Link to the memos.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/249095646

This is comedy at in the worst way possible and everything makes sense.
 
S

Syriel

Member
DY_nasty said:
That's not at all how you approach anyone as a cop

especially if they're armed

Just to be clear. Their approach was factually inappropriate and wrong in every single scenario as police officers. There's simply never a good reason to do it. Ever.
Click to expand...

That was the point I was trying to make.

The officers didn't "come on strong."

They were reckless on approach.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Shaun King, doing what he does best: I hereby charge Timothy Loehmann and the Cleveland PD with the murder of 12-year-old Tamir Rice

He does an amazing breakdown of Loehmann's emotional instability, his volatility, and the lack of background checking that CPD did. The episode that led due his dismissal (or lack of qualification, rather) from the prior police department:

On November 28, 2012 probationary Officer Tim Loehmann came to work at 0600 hrs. He appeared to be.sleepy and upset. In the past days with Ptl. Loehmann he had shared with me that he was having trouble with his girlfriend. Ptl. Loehmann and I went down to IPD range to qualify him on the State of Ohio gun qualifications. During the qualification Ptl. Loehmann was distracted and was not following simple instructions.
PtI. Loehmann went to the back ofthe range to reload his magazines and could not return to the shooting line. He was emotionally upset and appeared to be crying. I asked several times if he was ok and Ptl. Loehmann stated "I need a minute." After several attempts to get Ptl. Loehmann to return, I decided that he was not fit to return and had him sit down. He expressed to me again that the situation with his girlfriend was
upsetting him and he was still emotionally upset and crying. Concerned for his well being I took PtI. Loehmann's gun belt and gun from him and secured it in a safe location.

I gave him a few minutes to pull himself together, and I notified Chief Nicastro and Deputy Chief Polak of the situation. We decided to stop firearms training and to go out to Atwells Police Supply to pick up Ptl. Loehmami's Bullet Proof Vest.

During the forty minute drive out to Atwells, Ptl. Loehmann remained emotionally upset. He informed me that during his time at the Cleveland Hts. Police Academy he had a similar situation happen and Captain G. Barnard had to counsel him.

He stated his Girlfriend broke up with him for four months and he cried every morning for four months. When we arrived at Atwells Police Supply Ptl. Loehmann was still upset and I felt he needed more time to get his emotions under control. I took him out for breakfast and talked with him. During our time at breakfast Ptl. Loehmann expressed that he was unclear on were his future was headed. I explained to Ptl. Loehmann that he
could not be released from the FTO program until IPD knew he could handle the job. Ptl. Loehmann stated "thatjust makes me want to quit." As we talked about being emotionally ready for duty and the events of the morning Ptl. Loehmann became agitated.

He stated to me as if he was thinking out loud "what I want is for you to shut up." Ptl. Loehmann wasn't even looking at me when he made the statement and seemed to be distracted as if the statementjust came out under stress.
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I started Ptl. Loehmann introduction to the FTO program on November 19, 2012.We spent approximately 10-12 hrs days together. During that time period there are several events that should be noted. I issued Ptl. Loehmann a locker and instructed him to put a lock on it ASAP. IPD officers keep their firearms in their lockers, and when I issued Ptl. Loehmann his firearm I asked him if he had a lock on his locker. He indicated that he did, and I offered advice about keeping his duty gun at work. On November 28, 2012 when I went to put Ptl. Loehmanrt's gun belt above his locker I noticed there was no lock. When questioned about it, he stated he did not state he had a lock on the locker but had a lock at home. I asked him if he left his firearm unsecured in his locker and he stated yes. Then I asked him why he didn't bring a lock in, he stated because he was upset about his girlfriend.

I also instructed Ptl. Loehmann to sit a dispatch on November 26,2012 to learn how IPD Dispatch Center works. During that time he was called into the IPD report room for an unrelated topic. I instructed him to return to dispatch and I would come get him later. A short time later, I returned to the IPD report room and Ptl. Loehmann was there. I asked why he wasn't in dispatch, he stated the Dispatchers informed him he was done. I instructed him to return to Dispatch and to follow the instructions given him. Later that day Ptl. Loehmann informed me that the Dispatchers did not tell him he was done and that he had made it up.
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The timeline of events includes Loehmann shooting Tamir (who was still alive at that time), then Loehmann twists his ankle and rubs it for 1.5 minutes as Tamir lay dying on the ground. When Tamir's sister, Tajai, runs over to help him, both officers tackle and restrain her--again, as Tamir is dying. They end up handcuffing and locking Tajai in the cruiser--she watches Tamir as he bleeds on the ground. When another officer arrives on the scene, they literally stand around and talk, again, as Tamir is dying.

And the five lies:

Not knowing that a camera recorded the entire incident, the police told what appear to be at least five lies about what happened.

1. Police said that Tamir Rice was seated at a table with other people.

2. Police said that as they pulled up, they saw Tamir Rice grab the gun and put it in his waistband.

3. Police said they got out of the car and told Tamir Rice three times to put his hands up but he refused.

4. Police said that Tamir Rice then reached into his waistband and pulled out the gun, and was then shot and killed by Officer Timothy Loehmann.

5. Police described the gun as looking real and later explained that the neon tip of the gun was missing.



1. Tamir Rice was not seated at a table with other people. As you see, he was completely alone.

2. Tamir Rice does not appear to grab the gun and put it in his waistband.

3. As you saw, officer Loehmann shot and killed Tamir within just one second of the car stopping and absolutely could not have told him to put his hands up three times.

4. Tamir Rice absolutely does not pull the air gun out of his waistband and brandish it in any way. This fact is so crucial.

5. Because Tamir Rice never pulled the gun out on them, the police had no idea whether or not the gun was real or fake. When the police later held a press conference to report that the orange tip was missing from the air gun, it was implied that the police on the scene saw Tamir brandish a gun with the orange tip missing and shot him because they thought they saw a real weapon, but they did no such thing.
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Disgusting.
 
C

CrimsonCommie

Member
Anton Sugar said:
Shaun King, doing what he does best: I hereby charge Timothy Loehmann and the Cleveland PD with the murder of 12-year-old Tamir Rice

He does an amazing breakdown of Loehmann's emotional instability, his volatility, and the lack of background checking that CPD did. The episode that led due his dismissal (or lack of qualification, rather) from the prior police department:





The timeline of events includes Loehmann shooting Tamir (who was still alive at that time), then Loehmann twists his ankle and rubs it for 1.5 minutes as Tamir lay dying on the ground. When Tamir's sister, Tajai, runs over to help him, both officers tackle and restrain her--again, as Tamir is dying. They end up handcuffing and locking Tajai in the cruiser--she watches Tamir as he bleeds on the ground. When another officer arrives on the scene, they literally stand around and talk, again, as Tamir is dying.

And the five lies:



Disgusting.
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Wow I have no words
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Good news folks, the City of Cleveland has determined that it was all the 12 year old and his families fault.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...and-boy-tamir-rice-was-caused-his-own-n314861

The city of Cleveland claims the death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice at the hands of a police officer and the "losses" suffered by his family were a result of the boy's and his family's own actions that day. The city's denial of any wrongdoing was filed Friday in response to a wrongful death lawsuit brought by lawyers for the Rice family last month.

The city wrote that Tamir's injuries were caused by him failing to "exercise due care." In addition, the complaints brought on behalf of Tamir's sister and mother were also "directly caused by their own acts" — not the officers involved, the response said.

Tamir was fatally shot on Nov. 22 by Cleveland rookie cop Timothy Loehmann, who with his partner, Frank Garmback, were called to a recreation center where Tamir was holding a pellet gun. Police responding to the scene initially believed the pellet gun, which did not have an orange tip identifying it as a replica, was real. Loehmann fired on Tamir within less than two seconds of arriving, surveillance footage shows, and the boy died in the hospital the next day.

more at link
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R

Rembrandt

Banned
What's going on with this? Is the news avoiding this one like John Crawford because there's literally no way to spin this story? Especially after the cops'/mayor/city's comments?
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
and this has been your daily reminder that black lives ain't worth shit

DrForester said:
I am actually completely shocked that they are trying to blame this all on a 12 year old kid and his family.
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I'm not.

I mean if you read this thread, you'll see it all over the place. Something makes people naturally want to blame the victim, even when they don't personally have anything at stake. Of COURSE it's plausible the city is going to do it too.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Not to bring down the tragedy of other black men killed by cops, but how in the world was the Michael Brown story bigger than this one? In that case you have forensics supporting the cops story that he was attacked and conflicting witness statements. This one you have a video of two cops shooting a little kid two seconds after getting out of their car.
 
E

Enzom21

Member
Rembrandt said:
What's going on with this? Is the news avoiding this one like John Crawford because there's literally no way to spin this story? Especially after the cops'/mayor/city's comments?
Click to expand...
Mayor apologized but that's it, I doubt anything else will come of this.
http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/index.ssf/2015/03/cleveland_mayor_frank_jackson_50.html
Htown said:
and this has been your daily reminder that black lives ain't worth shit



I'm not.

I mean if you read this thread, you'll see it all over the place. Something makes people naturally want to blame the victim, even when they don't personally have anything at stake. Of COURSE it's plausible the city is going to do it too.
Click to expand...

The first page is filled with poster calling the kid and idiot, there is absolutely no compassion when the victim is black.
 
R

Rembrandt

Banned
DrForester said:
Not to bring down the tragedy of other black men killed by cops, but how in the world was the Michael Brown story bigger than this one? In that case you have forensics supporting the cops story that he was attacked and conflicting witness statements. This one you have a video of two cops shooting a little kid two seconds after getting out of their car.
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same reason they barely touched on John Crawford or Akai Gurley, it's impossible to paint them in a bad light. it would just be a discussion of how wrong the cops are.

Enzom21 said:
Mayor apologized but that's it, I doubt anything else will come of this.
http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/index.ssf/2015/03/cleveland_mayor_frank_jackson_50.html
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What a shame. I can't imagine how that family felt after the mayor said that. Unlawfully murdered and then the character assassination of a little boy.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
Htown said:
I mean if you read this thread, you'll see it all over the place. Something makes people naturally want to blame the victim, even when they don't personally have anything at stake. Of COURSE it's plausible the city is going to do it too.
Click to expand...
At least the city is doing it to try sheild themselves from a potential lawsuit.

Posters online are just rushing to the defense of the police for some odd reason.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Rembrandt said:
same reason they barely touched on John Crawford or Akai Gurley, it's impossible to paint them in a bad light. it would just be a discussion of how wrong the cops are.
Click to expand...

What ever came of the Crawford case? I'm sure the officers probably got off, but I seem to remember that being a case where someone called the cops and lied about him. Always thought that case resembled the worst-case scenario for swatting. Was the caller ever charged?
 
R

Rembrandt

Banned
DrForester said:
What ever came of the Crawford case? I'm sure the officers probably got off, but I seem to remember that being a case where someone called the cops and lied about him. Always thought that case resembled the worst-case scenario for swatting. Was the caller ever charged?
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nothing. the cop is still employed and i don't think the guy or his wife/gf were ever charged. it's pretty unbelievable how that all happened, including the way they harassed crawford's girlfriend.

i think the family is suing, but idk if the caller is being sued, too. he deserved to be sued and possibly charged/fine. he needs to be held accountable. i just wiki'd and i didn't even know a woman suffered a heart attack and died fleeing after the cops fired. shit is just wild.
 
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