I would also like to know this.
Do the 50hz VC games played through Wii mode also have that duplicate frames problem? Or are they true 50Hz?
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50/60hz on the PAL Wii U eShop - Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Rich!
- Start date
I would also like to know this.
Do the 50hz VC games played through Wii mode also have that duplicate frames problem? Or are they true 50Hz?
It was a non-issue as you can run in 50Hz output from the Wii meaning it was exactly like the original PAL version of the game. Obviously that's horrible for some games, but if effort was put into the PAL port originally, it would play just like the original game.
EDIT: Didn't see Wii mode on the Wii U part! I don't believe the Wii U outputs at 50Hz at all, so it would have the same issue.
EDIT: Didn't see Wii mode on the Wii U part! I don't believe the Wii U outputs at 50Hz at all, so it would have the same issue.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Question. Was I the only person to contact customer support about this? The exchange ended with head office looking at, shrugging their shoulders and it being forwarded to the appropriate department(TM)...where it was never heard from again.
But yes if journalists, who constantly comb neogaf for articles to write bothered to write articles about that...maybe also the dogshit filter added to NES games we might have gotten somewhere as I think those were the reason 60Hz started as much as the Miiverse mutiny. But maybe these things don't hits while a ghost written by team top hat article about how NOA suxs because Europe got a Virtual Console game will get more hits...
Speaking of sites. I still find myself disgusted at Nintendo Life who still choose to ignore the issue to the extent of omitting the 50Hz info in their news post for this week (their source is the same press release as everyone else where it is spelled out clearly). I can only imagine that now Nintendo UK are giving them various perks (30,000 Pokemon demo codes, Sakurai, advertising space and more) they've turned into puppies scared of speaking out against their masters, like most of gaming journalism or maybe they just were not that bothered to begin with.
It runs in 50Hz with a 60Hz refresh rate because a Wii U is still outputting the image. So basically the same mess as the Wii U release. No idea if the ghost ship has music problems though.
That does sound likely.
If we assume that when language issues pop up all the EU gets the PAL version due them wanting to keep things consistent, it's still kind of weird. Australia has to get it's own separate rating and Nintendo of Australia is separate from Nintendo of Europe. They are both in the PAL region, but that's it.
I think it has to do with QA. They would probably have to test out each version separately and it seems that's too much work for them.
The only other thing I can of think is the rating process but they shouldn't have to pay any additional costs so that can't be it.
They also skipped the ENG-SPA-ITA version of Pokemon TCG for the GB and only released the ENG-FRE-GER one.
Bluemercury
Member
i actually bought the snes mario kart, was it 60hz?
Robin64
Member
It was, yeah.
Bluemercury
Member
Humm so it doesn't make much sense all this swapping...even with more or less text, can't they just edit the files and add the other languages?
Bill Rizer
Member
It's a shame. They almost got me, as I was buying DKC assuming all the 3 games would be 60Hz. Glad I didn't. I'll never, ever support Nintendo's shameful VC approach.
When VC was announced back then in 2006 I was super excited, it then revealed to be the biggest joke Nintendo ever put on. I only accepted to buy 2 games in all these years: Sin & Punishment, because it was 60Hz and 480p so a big upgrade over the original, and more recently Mario World beacuase I thought Nintendo was redeeming themselves and I was glad to give my support. Bleh.
When VC was announced back then in 2006 I was super excited, it then revealed to be the biggest joke Nintendo ever put on. I only accepted to buy 2 games in all these years: Sin & Punishment, because it was 60Hz and 480p so a big upgrade over the original, and more recently Mario World beacuase I thought Nintendo was redeeming themselves and I was glad to give my support. Bleh.
Well, to be honest I'm still buying VC games, but I'm a little disappointed. I've never imagined to have to deal with 50Hz games in 2014 but oh well.
And Sega did much worse on the original Wii VC by forcing all games into 50Hz. At least some Super NES games are 60Hz...
The only 60Hz ones on the original Wii are the Hanabii Festival games and that was only because they had no PAL ROM to fall back on.
In the OP it is said, that the WiiU VC version(s) are dropping inputs.
At least that should not be the case here.
To be honest, I find the lack of input thing hard to believe, but I can't test or judge that for myself.
It is kinda difficult to explain,
and not may people care, unfortunately.
[I would love to write and work about those issues for life
]EDIT: Kirby's Adventure was translated to German by Claude Moyse, and he worked for Nintendo directly, if I am not mistaken.
But you may be right, they may not be happy with the names, Nickerchen/DeDeDe being the prime example.
This is slightly becoming to off-topic for this thread.
I wonder if a thread about Nintendo dropping translations and other related problems is worth its own thread.
Not that many people care
I want Nintendo to drop translated PAL versions on the Wii U VC more than anything else....in the UK and Australia/NZ. We speak ENGLISH. We don't give a shit about anything else.
Mainland Europe should get the choice between PAL translated or 60hz USA
but of course, its never gonna happen
Mainland Europe should get the choice between PAL translated or 60hz USA
but of course, its never gonna happen
Many languages require more space, because they need more letters or words than English or Japanese. If you overstep the boundaries, a lot of other things would need to be moved around as well.
It probably easier to make the old games run at 60 hz again.
But without knowing in which state the games and their original sources are, it is hard to tell which would be the best course of action.
(Enthusiasts / Hackers / Homebrew have taken many games apart and have a good understanding of many games, but I am sure it took many people many hours.)
pointers, pointers everywhere
that's my experience with translations. and table files. and lunar compress.
Infernal Monkey
Member
Yeah, they could at least give people the choice of which ROM to download. They seemingly saw no issue with uploading multiple versions of that 3DS Louvre museum guide on the UK and AU eShop for whatever reason.
And if you swithced you Wii to Switzerland you had the choice between 3 versions of Link To The Past (3 different languages, all 50hz)
Starwolf_UK
Member
The thing about most VC games is when a NES game is 30 megabytes it is clear having multiple ROMs would not make a big difference to the end filesize. If they used compression such 7z, less so* (fun fact, later Wii games used a version of LZ77 compression; a very old format but probably not CPU intense to unpack).
However their argument is probably that switching ROMs could break savestate loading (this is probably why Balloon fight is the PAL version running at 6/5 speed so higher pitched music rather than the US ROM).
As for the Louvre museum guide, that has lots of audio. Including it all could make for a 5GB eShop download; most of which you'll never make use of.
*-But that kind of compression is very RAM hungry though it is space efficient as it compresses common data only once while conventional compression does so each time.
However their argument is probably that switching ROMs could break savestate loading (this is probably why Balloon fight is the PAL version running at 6/5 speed so higher pitched music rather than the US ROM).
As for the Louvre museum guide, that has lots of audio. Including it all could make for a 5GB eShop download; most of which you'll never make use of.
*-But that kind of compression is very RAM hungry though it is space efficient as it compresses common data only once while conventional compression does so each time.
Yes I know, I was referring to the Wii U 60Hz games.
And all the TurboGrafx games on the original Wii are also 60Hz.
unless I'm wrong, we never got the TG or PC Engine in Europe.
Of course we did, man! The TG was released here. The reason why 60Hz TG games were released on EU VC:
From Wikipedia
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Nope, they moved their HQ from Großostheim to Frankfurt/Main a few months ago.
Don't know the exact adress to that one, though.
TheMoon
Member
Why not? It's still the same system under the exact same conditions. It's dropping inputs on the doubled frame because it's a 50Hz game outputting at 60Hz. That doesn't change in Wii mode.
You're wrong then. Go and download Rondo of Blood right now!
I was talking about the actual console. It came to Europe in 1990!
You should try it on the VC. Castlevania Rondo of Blood is awesome! And it's the Japanese 60Hz version.
Yeah, it was an odd situation. Telegames bought the rights to release it in the UK, made a very limited quantity, made it run in 50Hz with a converter chip and was compatible with US games. I don't think they even released games over here, just told people to buy the US ones.
oh wow, never knew it came over here
and yes, I already have Rondo of Blood on the VC! I do prefer SOTN though...
If only all the console makers did exactly that on the NES/MS/Megadrive/Super Nintendo/Nintendo 64 back in the day.
It would be awesome.
But with a switch to enable 60Hz mode for those with TVs that could handle it! That would be so nice.
^
I don't think there were that many TV's that supported 60Hz in the early 90's.
Also, one thing that grinds my gears:
During the original Wii boom, many non-gamers bought the console, but they knew nothing about the 50/60Hz difference.
So whenever I visited relatives and friends with a Wii, they started playing and I imidiatelly noticed that the all Wii games were running at the slower 50Hz on their HD TV's. I immediately go to the console settings and change to 60 for them.
This happened because Nintendo used 50Hz as default on Euro Wii's, and almost no Euro person still has a 50Hz only TV.
I don't think there were that many TV's that supported 60Hz in the early 90's.
Also, one thing that grinds my gears:
During the original Wii boom, many non-gamers bought the console, but they knew nothing about the 50/60Hz difference.
So whenever I visited relatives and friends with a Wii, they started playing and I imidiatelly noticed that the all Wii games were running at the slower 50Hz on their HD TV's. I immediately go to the console settings and change to 60 for them.
This happened because Nintendo used 50Hz as default on Euro Wii's, and almost no Euro person still has a 50Hz only TV.
I got given a TV for my room that was a second hand late 70s one when I was about 14. You know the type, that fake wood panelling all around it but it must have been a high end one at the time, since it had a SCART socket and was a good 22".
Anyway, it's still going strong when the Dreamcast came out and when I got Sonic Adventure with it, I picked 60Hz and it ran fine so I tried 50Hz and got the borders and slowdown. I thought to myself, why the hell is 50Hz even an option? Then I went to a friends, activated it and saw the image go nuts with VHOLD and realised that I was just completely jammy to have a TV that supported 60Hz.
Anyway, it's still going strong when the Dreamcast came out and when I got Sonic Adventure with it, I picked 60Hz and it ran fine so I tried 50Hz and got the borders and slowdown. I thought to myself, why the hell is 50Hz even an option? Then I went to a friends, activated it and saw the image go nuts with VHOLD and realised that I was just completely jammy to have a TV that supported 60Hz.
Every single TV I've ever had in this household from early 90s onwards has supported 60hz and RGB SCART.
How I know that for sure is because the old Sony Trinitron we used to have in the living room ended up being my first bedroom TV and I was able to pay Gamecube games on it in 60hz mode...before it blew up for totally unrelated reasons. It lasted like fifteen years. badass.
I think they originally bought the TV in 1991 or so when we first moved into this place.
Devil May Cry indeed...
This reminds me that the TVs we had when I worked in GAME didn't support 60Hz either. Not really too much of an issue, but we put Sonic Heroes up to demo when it had just came out and I thought that the demo that plays after you wait on the title screen was just terrible. I mean, the game was anyway, so why put effort into the demo? They just did random jumps and kept killing themselves.
When I rented the game to try myself, I decided to show my brother since I know he would find it funny and when it came on, it played perfectly... Turns out the demo wasn't just a video of the game, it was the game actually being played with scripted directions and button presses and running the game in 50Hz broke the timing of the script!
It was an option, but it was up to the developers and abrely any supported it. It also output in NTSC rather than the PAL60 of DC, GC and XBox, meaning it was run through RGB SCART or get black and white (which is a second annoyance, because the original PAL PS2s output DVDs in a bloody green screen if run over RGB) but it was there.
When I rented the game to try myself, I decided to show my brother since I know he would find it funny and when it came on, it played perfectly... Turns out the demo wasn't just a video of the game, it was the game actually being played with scripted directions and button presses and running the game in 50Hz broke the timing of the script!
It was an option, but it was up to the developers and abrely any supported it. It also output in NTSC rather than the PAL60 of DC, GC and XBox, meaning it was run through RGB SCART or get black and white (which is a second annoyance, because the original PAL PS2s output DVDs in a bloody green screen if run over RGB) but it was there.
"their reasoning"? So there was an official response by Nintendo?
Them releasing a gamecube game as "60Hz only" is not the same as them releasing a 50Hz Virtual Console game. Prime 2 wasn't the NTSC version. It wasn't English only. It was multilingual. It was still PAL, actually PAL60. And back on gamecube that wasn't a major problem, because 99% of all TVs supported that mode (still there were a few including projectors that went crazy in case it received such a signal, there were also TV PC cards, who didn't like such a signal - that's why Nintendo wrote "PAL 60Hz only" on the cover).
Back in the days of NES/SNES that simply wasn't the case at all. Which is why all those games were 50Hz instead of 60Hz. You can't turn those games magically into 60Hz versions. You can release the US versions here and fuck over people, who don't speak English of course.
What they definitely should do is to fix the 50Hz issue. Make the gamepad compliant with 50Hz video. Then at least the duplicate frame issue wouldn't exist anymore and that would be nice for translated versions of text heavy games like LTTP.
You want the US version of text heavy games in UK? Then contact Nintendo and ask them why they don't do that. Prime 2 is a bad example, because it was actually PAL60 (which means 60Hz and higher resolution, so actually better than the US version) and not NTSC. PAL60 games were quite rare back then, so that was actually a nice thing.
Sure, the best solution would be to hack the US ROM so that it's multilingual and release that one. But that's a nightmare to do.
Wait, so even Wii games on Wii U run in 60Hz mode with that duplicate frame issue?
If that's the case, then I never noticed it at all.
I disagree. The best option would be to offer both versions upon purchase. it's not hard for them to do at all.
This is a very good and logical solution,
therefore Nintendo is NOT gonna do it
Yeah, I think that was a copy-protection Sony implemented because it was easy to copy DVD movies through RGB.
Heh, I thought it was a bug it was so stupid. Buying DVD Region X fixed it at least.
You know what, if Nintendo is gonna continue to release PAL games, they could at least fix the duplicate frame problem.
I don't have an XBox One, but I think Microsoft updated the console to be compatible with the Euro 50Hz TV channels a while ago.
Edit: Yup, the One had framerate problems when viewing 50Hz TV on the One's dashboard (wich is 60Hz). I think it's fixed now.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721891
I don't have an XBox One, but I think Microsoft updated the console to be compatible with the Euro 50Hz TV channels a while ago.
Edit: Yup, the One had framerate problems when viewing 50Hz TV on the One's dashboard (wich is 60Hz). I think it's fixed now.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721891
TheDrowningMan
Member
The PS2 was likely the worst DVD player on the market if you relied on RGB for a top quality image. Just abysmal.
"Hey guys, enjoy this high-quality video...via composite".
"Hey guys, enjoy this high-quality video...via composite".
TheMoon
Member
Welp.
Wait what? So is he talking crazy or what now? I'm confused lol