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Syrian Uprising |OT| Ash-shab yurd isq an-nim

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Jason's Ultimatum said:
Not to mention Assad has sent his police thugs to capture, torture, and kill his political opponents, and for anyone that speaks against the regime.
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While that was true of the father, it's a lot less true of the son (it still grates me that we're the Syrian Arab Republic and yet power went from father to son, as if we're a monarchy -_-). There's a lot of criticism in the syrian media about both the regime and its policies. But right now, it'S some kind of "sacred union" while the country faces a very dangerous time.

Peacefull protests have taken place in Damascus and were allowed. Once they got what they asked for (reforms) they stopped (mostly).

Also a lot of reforms have been going through in Syria, first of all the Baath party is no longer the only one allowed and the syrian opposition (the real one, not the tools in Ankara) created their own parties. Hopefully it will work better, with legitimate oposition members, than the avorted damascus spring (in 2k, shortly after Bashar gained power).

I will agree that they were too slow to come and take too much time to implement, but they are coming.

Please understand that the people showing their support in Damascus aren't necessarily doing it because they love Bashar but because they love Syria and don't want a civil war and even less a fake revolution. (Yeah, yeah, the MB tells you it's a real one, I got it already, but you guys need to open your eyes and see how the other "revolutions" turned out in Tunisia, Lybia and Egypt)
 
Fularu said:
Again, the General in chief is christian, the army is mostly directed by sunni officers (which is sensible, since they're by far, the biggest part of the Syrian society). Almost all of the governing body is made of sunnis and the various minorities (druzes, christians, alawis and so on).

Syria is alitle bit more complicated than Shia vs Sunni Vs Christians.
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Nope, your government has played the sectarian card well and continues to do so.
Some facts for the uninitiated:


(Stratfor Intelligence)

"Syrian Alawites are stacked in the military from both the top and the bottom, keeping the army’s mostly Sunni 2nd Division commanders in check. Of the 200,000 career soldiers in the Syrian army, roughly 70 percent are Alawites. Some 80 percent of officers in the army are also believed to be Alawites. The military’s most elite division, the Republican Guard, led by the president’s younger brother Maher al Assad, is an all-Alawite force. Syria’s ground forces are organized in three corps (consisting of combined artillery, armor and mechanized infantry units). Two corps are led by Alawites (Damascus headquarters, which commands southeastern Syria, and Zabadani headquarters near the Lebanese border). The third is led by a Circassian Sunni from Aleppo headquarters.

Most of Syria’s 300,000 conscripts are Sunnis who complete their two- to three-year compulsory military service and leave the military, though the decline of Syrian agriculture has been forcing more rural Sunnis to remain beyond the compulsory period (a process the regime is tightly monitoring). Even though most of Syria’s air force pilots are Sunnis, most ground support crews are Alawites who control logistics, telecommunications and maintenance, thereby preventing potential Sunni air force dissenters from acting unilaterally. Syria’s air force intelligence, dominated by Alawites, is one of the strongest intelligence agencies within the security apparatus and has a core function of ensuring that Sunni pilots do not rebel against the regime.

The triumvirate managing the crackdowns on protesters consists of Bashar’s brother Maher; their brother-in-law, Asef Shawkat; and Ali Mamluk, the director of Syria’s Intelligence Directorate. Their strategy has been to use Christian and Druze troops and security personnel against Sunni protesters to create a wedge between the Sunnis and the country’s minority groups (Alawites, Druze, Christians), but this strategy also runs the risk of backfiring if sectarianism escalates to the point that the regime can no longer assimilate the broader Syrian community. President al Assad has also quietly called on retired Alawite generals to return to work with him as advisers to help ensure that they do not link up with the opposition.

Given Syria’s sectarian military dynamics, it is not surprising that significant military defections have not occurred during the current crisis. Smaller-scale defections of lower-ranking soldiers and some officers have been reported by activists in the southwest, where the unrest is most intense. These reports have not been verified, but even Syrian activist sources have admitted to STRATFOR that the defectors from the Syrian army’s 5th and 9th divisions are being put down.

A fledgling opposition movement calling itself the “National Initiative for Change” published a statement from Nicosia, Cyprus, appealing to Syrian Minister of Defense Ali Habib (an Alawite) and Army Chief of Staff Daoud Rajha (a Greek Orthodox Christian) to lead the process of political change in Syria, in an apparent attempt to spread the perception that the opposition is making headway in co-opting senior military members of the regime. Rajha replaced Habib as army chief of staff when the latter was relegated to the largely powerless political position of defense minister two years ago. In name, the president’s brother-in-law, Asef Shawkat, is deputy army chief of staff, but in practice, he is the true chief of army staff."

The whole article is behind a Stratfor's paywall, but it's been reposted in its entirety on this forum.
Making Sense of the Syria Crisis
 
Fularu said:
Your response shows your total lack of understanding of the geopolitical conditions concerning Syria.

And LOL at the idiocy of associating me with Assad or Sana, further proving your stupidity and total lack of knowledge. For the record my family fled Syria in 1982 on charges of beeing part of the opposition (the Syrian communist party) but hey! Who cares about my background or my family's! As long as it suits your narrow view of the Syrian situation!

For your information, while Syria may be lacking in oil, it doesn't lack the next important ressource, gaz. Why do you think both Russia and China are so vehemently protecting Syria from further meddling by both the US and France? (and to a wider extend, western Europe) For the biggest gaz reserves in the world (between Lebanon, Syria, Iran and northern Iraq). But oh, no, we'Re deluded idiots drinking the Sana kool aid while you drink till your bladder explodes on the so called "human rights" organisations in Syria, which are little more than propaganda tools for the syrian muslim brother hood (or better yet, believe every idiotic news tidbit aired by Barada TV, they'Re in London, they must know the truth!!).

Yes, fuck you for immediately accusing the syrian government, fuck you for turning the suffering of my people into some kind of "far from my armchair" fuel for your pathetic "humanitarian" posture on these forums.

Go to Syria, try to live among the fanatics from Hama or Homs, try meddling with the "FSA" and its hordes of foreign "freedom fighters" shipped straight from Libya (another great example of "freedom for the masses, am I right?)

But no, when the civilians report being attacked by someone, you discard it, but when the SOFHRW tells you something, OMG IT'S THE TRUTH!!!111!!

You're a fool.

While both sides are to blame (The Syrian regime is anything but peacefull), the destabilisation talks aren't simple propaganda to cover the atrocities comited by the military, they're just a reflection of what goes on on the field, they are fighting terrorist and foreign fighters en mass and that's not a fairy tale.

Now you may believe whatever the fuck you want, who cares in the end, but we, and by we, I mean Syrians who not only went there, but saw what was happening with our eyes, who have family there, who value our multicultural and multiconfessional melting pot, who value our Syrian identity, WE don't want to see a country led by islamists, and especially not the MB kind. You imposed it on Lybia, Egyptians and Tunisians ended up with it, we won't.
Click to expand...
I was going to do a neat reply but then I read this...

Is that clear enough for you? And if it takes two more Hama to achieve it, so be it.
Click to expand...
Holy shit.
 
Fularu said:
While that was true of the father, it's a lot less true of the son (it still grates me that we're the Syrian Arab Republic and yet power went from father to son, as if we're a monarchy -_-). There's a lot of criticism in the syrian media about both the regime and its policies. But right now, it'S some kind of "sacred union" while the country faces a very dangerous time.

Peacefull protests have taken place in Damascus and were allowed. Once they got what they asked for (reforms) they stopped (mostly).

Also a lot of reforms have been going through in Syria, first of all the Baath party is no longer the only one allowed and the syrian opposition (the real one, not the tools in Ankara) created their own parties. Hopefully it will work better, with legitimate oposition members, than the avorted damascus spring (in 2k, shortly after Bashar gained power).

I will agree that they were too slow to come and take too much time to implement, but they are coming.

Please understand that the people showing their support in Damascus aren't necessarily doing it because they love Bashar but because they love Syria and don't want a civil war and even less a fake revolution. (Yeah, yeah, the MB tells you it's a real one, I got it already, but you guys need to open your eyes and see how the other "revolutions" turned out in Tunisia, Lybia and Egypt)
Click to expand...
The revolutions in Tunisia and Libya turned out fine judging by the standards of revolutions. There are hardly any squeaky clean revolutions. There have always been various actors involved in a united cause in a revolution and once that goal is succeeded everyone wants a piece of victory pie. Egypt's story hasn't ended. Yes they removed Mubarak, but they havent defanged the institution that established dictatorships. In any case,
Fularu
Banned
(Yesterday, 02:09 PM)
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Goodbye. You are truly a psychopath.
 
I'm surprised he got banned and not the other guy with the vulgar 'you'd probably kill me' shit didn't.. Also, context ftw.

On topic: Christmas in syria this year is unsurprisingly not nearly as jolly as before. :( I remember last year walking down the shopping districts and seeing everyone having fun and the lights etc, a blast..

Now everyone's afraid.
 
it was one of the cruelest, coldest comments Ive read around these parts in a minute. almost as bad as the "nuke x country" posts we see on occasion around here.
I confess to being banned for saying something cruel about the New York Post, but still...I was appalled.
 
Sentry said:
It can't, but lets be real here, he wasn't really promoting geocoding. He was saying he would rather have hama than make his country turn into another iraq/war zone/etc etc.

Doesn't make it right/accurate, but again, context.
Click to expand...
Please. You don't need a context to justify slaughter of innocent people no matter how twisted your logic is. Only truly deranged individuals think about human lives in terms of soul-less statistical numbers that need to be exchanged like money. He not only justified Hama, but actually justified TWO Hama. Here's the real context:

Initial diplomatic reports from western countries stated that 1,000 were killed.[2][3] Subsequent estimates vary, with the lower estimates claiming that at least 10,000 Syrian citizens were killed,[4] while others put the number at 20,000 (Robert Fisk),[1] or 40,000 (Syrian Human Rights Committee).[5][6] About 1,000 Syrian soldiers were killed during the operation and large parts of the old city were destroyed. Alongside such few events as the Black September Massacre in Jordan,[7] the attack has been described as one of the "the single deadliest acts by any Arab government against its own people in the modern Middle East".[8] The vast majority of the victims were civilians.[9]
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It was truly one of the coldest statement I've ever seen on neogaf. A guy saying he would want two Rwandas or two Srebjenicas in exchange for stability will be laughed out of the planet.
 
I'm actually a bit disappointed he was banned because it was useful to hear a contrasting opinion.

Anyway, to the remaining regime sympathizers, I have a question. You say that Assad is truly popular and beloved by the people.
So why not just embrace real democracy and remove all limitations on the opposition? If the Muslim Brotherhood is so bad and so feared by the average Syrian then there is no real risk of them gaining power. And if Assad is as popular as you say, then surely he could win a true and fair elections?
It doesn't take a genius to see that once an uprising of this scale starts it won't stop until the regime is toppled. Assad could have saved himself a lot of trouble by quickly and decisively transitioning into a true democracy - for example, setting a date for elections watched over by international supervisors and engaging with the international community and worldwide press. But he chose a different path and now his days in power are numbered. He will face trial, be forced to exile or be killed.
 
The protesters were not even calling for Assad's downfall in March and most of April. He was respected by the vast majority of the country until his goon squads were allowed to go on a rampage and tanks were sent to occupy and shell towns. I accept that regime soldiers were being ambushed and killed from the early days of the uprising (by armed groups..probably Muslim extremists too, maybe even the same Muslim extremists the Syrian government sent to Iraq during the US war there), but my god, children have been mutilated and tortured in jail, hospital victims beaten in their beds, mosques shelled, peaceful demonstration after peaceful demonstration fired upon and sniped at. the regime has dished out a sadistic level of brutality and no act of terror or violence can ever justify what Assads forces have done in his name.
 
AC is doing special on Syria, showed footage of sniper opening fire on a pregnant woman. People cant cross streets, so they throw bread and supplies across. Leader of Arab League observer mission served in the intelligence office of Omar Al Bashir's regime, who is wanted by ICC for crimes against humanity.
 
An acquaintance of mine (who's basically Anti-Capitalist) posted that same CNN report and then a German http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/syrien998.html (includes a video; the source is basically the German BBC or PBS) report.
Both claim to be exclusive and in the German one they claim they film it themselves under threat and all. His argument is that both use the same footage (which is true) and that it has therefore been orchestrated by the pro-Western Syrian opposition from abroad.
This is like the third occurrence where he posts to try to prove that the media is trying to manipulate the public opinion in Germany. The previous videos he posted are much more compelling evidence though (in both basically just use unrelated footage). He claims that Syrian opposition is feeding the media with this footage and they eat it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j31oeF3IPp8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei_2bk0JQdo

I think it's obvious that we see a repeat of Hama (1982), yet there seems to be some outside interest in to turn this into a greater conflict than it really is.

(edit)
ok, CNN is at least not lying about the source of the video: "A freelance journalist and filmmaker -- who is not named for his own security -- has just left Homs, and over the next few days CNN will be showcasing his remarkable stories from the front lines of a city at war."
 
Phantast2k said:
An acquaintance of mine (who's basically Anti-Capitalist)
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Is it just me or are the socialists/marxists/anti-capitalists basically have pattern of thoughts like this:

- Western friendly regimes (Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, etc) are bad and corrupt therefore I support their uprisings/revolutions.
- Anti-western/anti-capitalist regimes (Libya, Syria, etc) are good and caring therefore any uprisings/revolutions must be fake and CIA-sponsored

?
 
XtremeRampage said:
Is it just me or are the socialists/marxists/anti-capitalists basically have pattern of thoughts like this:

- Western friendly regimes (Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, etc) are bad and corrupt therefore I support their uprisings/revolutions.
- Anti-western/anti-capitalist regimes (Libya, Syria, etc) are good and caring therefore any uprisings/revolutions must be fake and CIA-sponsored

?
Click to expand...

Like any stereotype, there is a truth nugget in there. West does have a history of meddling in the affairs of socialist countries, and western friendly countries were corrupt because of dictators.
 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...ed-who-chronicled-the-syrian-uprising-is-dead

Basil Al-Sayed, Who Chronicled The Syrian Uprising, Is Dead

basil.jpg



This is the last video shot taken by Basil before he was shot in the head by security forces

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr7865hS8LM&feature=player_embedded

According to activist Rami Jarrah, yesterday, al-Sayed succumbed to his injuries at a hospital in the restive city of Homs. He was 24.

"We have thousands of citizen journalists," Jarrah told NPR's Deb Amos. "But Basil was one of those who stood out."

Jarrah said al-Sayed filmed security forces opening fire directly at protesters, and that put him at serious risk.

"He was documenting stuff that no one could actually get hold of," Jarrah said. "I don't want to say this was expected, but he was always in those situations where you could expect something would happen to him."

Jarrah said that al-Sayed's last video was taken at a checkpoint in the neighborhood of Bab Amr and uploaded to YouTube by fellow activists there.
Click to expand...
 
liger05 said:
May Allah protect and grant them victory.

http://youtu.be/zkg2RAwwe5Q
Click to expand...

I´ll preface this by saying I support the protestors and this doesn´t change it much. But this kind of stuff is not what I want to see.

I understand that God is often used for good in protests and resistance movies and I´m not even an atheist but it rubs me the wrong way when real figures that are actually helping these people are brushed aside for god.

This rubs me the wrong way just as Glenn Back´s restoring honor saying that we need to trust in god and he´ll fix everything. Can´t people ever acomplish anything.

This isn´t even about a desire to see a secular government its more a reaction to the "hey everyone that´s trying to help us, don´t, god will do it for you."

EDIT: Watching it again it also marginalizes the Christians in the country. Since it specifically is using Islam and not just the figure of God.
 
planar1280 said:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...ed-who-chronicled-the-syrian-uprising-is-dead

Basil Al-Sayed, Who Chronicled The Syrian Uprising, Is Dead

basil.jpg



This is the last video shot taken by Basil before he was shot in the head by security forces

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr7865hS8LM&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...
Damn. RIP.

That video was mad.
liger05 said:
May Allah protect and grant them victory.

http://youtu.be/zkg2RAwwe5Q
Click to expand...

I'm sure I saw another video of this taken from up in one of the buildings on the right.
 
el retorno de los sapos said:
I´ll preface this by saying I support the protestors and this doesn´t change it much. But this kind of stuff is not what I want to see.

I understand that God is often used for good in protests and resistance movies and I´m not even an atheist but it rubs me the wrong way when real figures that are actually helping these people are brushed aside for god.

This rubs me the wrong way just as Glenn Back´s restoring honor saying that we need to trust in god and he´ll fix everything. Can´t people ever acomplish anything.

This isn´t even about a desire to see a secular government its more a reaction to the "hey everyone that´s trying to help us, don´t, god will do it for you."

EDIT: Watching it again it also marginalizes the Christians in the country. Since it specifically is using Islam and not just the figure of God.
Click to expand...
Arab Christians also refer to God as Allah.
 
RustyNails said:
Arab Christians also refer to God as Allah.
Click to expand...

I´m aware of that (I´m pretty sure allah is just the arabic translation of God and is a cognate with the Hewbrew El no?)

I was refering more to when they use they start quoting the qu´ran and talking about "god´s religion".


RustyNails said:
AC is doing special on Syria, showed footage of sniper opening fire on a pregnant woman. People cant cross streets, so they throw bread and supplies across. Leader of Arab League observer mission served in the intelligence office of Omar Al Bashir's regime, who is wanted by ICC for crimes against humanity.
Click to expand...

Is there a link on the website?

Also is that last part about Al Bashir true? What a joke.
 
Now Assad is claiming the Arab League is pandering to Israel and there is no Arab League without Syria........


He is getting desperate?
 
Just got off the phone with a friend who i'm going to go see later today, he's in Damascus tech district (bahsa) and there are people every chanting and protesting there apparently, pro-Bashar.

Could barely hear him. Caught a bit of the speech and it is convincing, but neither side is totally right. There is definitely outside intervention going on here and not everyone is 'against' as west makes it out.

I'd say the majority of the country is still pro-Bashar, but there are definitely pockets against. Reading a bit of CNN this morning and they're finally realizing this fact as well.

I don't know, what's going on in spots is fucked up, but it's not all black and white as to who's exactly responsible for everything.
 
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/01/20121219212823456.html

Fourteen people have been killed after a bus transporting prisoners exploded in the northwestern Syrian province of Idlib near the Turkish border, state media and activists report.

SANA state news agency said 26 others were wounded in an ambush that targeted the vehicle in Jisr al-Shughour area.

The Local Co-ordination Committees activist network confirmed the attack and the death toll and distributed footage purportedly showing the victims.

Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, following events in Syria from neighbouring Lebanon, said the police vehicle may not have been deliberately targeted.

"There are roadside bombs planted [by the opposition] all along the highway in that area," she said. "The police vehicle may have been targeted unintentionally."
Click to expand...

The blast followed reports of heavy clashes between the Syrian army and defectors in Idlib. Opposition activists said nine regular troops were killed by defectors.

"A group of soldiers to defected were trying to escape to Turkey when the government forces raided the bordering villages of Ain al-Beida and Khorbat al-Joz using heavy weapons and mortars," he said

-----------------

Two senior Arab League senior officials told the Associated Press news agency on Friday that the organisation was likely to extend its monitoring mission, initiated to verify whether an Arab peace plan was working.
Click to expand...

Some activists reported as many as 740 civilians were killed in total in the last month.

On Friday, at least 12 people were killed, mostly Idlib, an activist network reported, as people took to the streets in solidarity with reportedly tens of thousands of political prisoners in Syrian jails.

The deterioration of the security situation in the country has prompted the US to consider closing its embassy in Damascus, a US official told Al Jazeera.
Click to expand...
 
Brief summary of what's happening in the last 24 hours:
- Tunisia decided to expel Syria's ambassador in response to the "bloody massacre" in Homs and "no longer recognizes" the Assad regime. Photo from embassy in Tunisia:

fzccu.jpg


- Syrians stormed their embassies in Berlin, London, Athens, Cairo and Kuwait city, clashing with guards and police and - in Cairo - setting fire to part of the embassy.
Some videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2WXV9swDTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbUPaIylZ9Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw0m7rxDpAY
Kuwait:
418166_291282834258948_175737975813435_695067_465446015_n.jpg


- Tough talks at UN, as usual

Associated Press
 
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