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Yay, finally got a living will

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terrisus

Member
AKA. Now I have a better chance of dying. Yay!

So, most people here have probably heard me complain at some point or another about my various health issues. If not, the basic idea is, had cancer in 2011, and a stroke in 2013. While the cancer is relatively under control (it was able to be removed surgically, and has a very low risk of recurrence), the stroke is more of an issue. Especially given that I'm only 32, it's pretty much guaranteed happen again at some point get my life. And doctors have said that it could be the same, worse, leave me paralyzed, in a coma, or dead.

Frankly, the dead part doesn't worry me at all. If I'm dead, I'm dead. And at that point nothing matters too much, now does it? It's that other stuff that concerns me. Basically, one of my biggest fears in life has always been being stuck in a situation where I can't say or do anything, but was aware of everything that was going on and was still able to be thinking. Basically, I would be laying there just thinking "Kill me. Please kill me," but with no way to actually communicate it.

Back when I was in eighth grade, back around 1996, my English teacher stressed the importance of having a Living Will. Of course, at that point I was 14 years old, hadn't had either of these major issues to deal with, and that was pretty much one of the furthest things from my mind.

Unfortunately, of course, all of these health issues have brought everything back to the front of my mind. And no matter how unlikely that the doctors say that different stuff like this is, the fact that they are giving me actual solid percentage chances of this happening is quite disconcerting to me. And while it's plenty easy for everyone else to say "Don't worry about it, don't think about it, just live your life, and whatever happens happens," that's much harder to do when you're actually in the position of having to do it, and especially with all these thoughts on my mind.

Of course, lucky me, living in the US, this country never seems particularly eager to let people die. However, making a living will involves actually going to a lawyer and paying a lawyer, and that hadn't happened so far. Yesterday, however, we did finally get down to a lawyer and put together a living will. So now at least they're not going to keep me in some kind of suspended state or anything, and my wife at least has power to tell them to just cut me off completely (with my father being the secondary in case something happens to her as well).

Well I still have a bunch of things on my mind, and a bunch of things to worry about, this is at least one less thing that will need to be weighing on me. Dying really is the least of my concerns - as I said, if I'm dead, then I'm dead. And, frankly, I would rather them err on the side of having me be dead, since, even if I may have wanted something a bit different... Well, I'm dead.

So, yeah, the main purpose of this is to recommend to other people that they probably should consider putting together a living will as well. Even if someone is in perfect health, you never know what is going to happen and when something is going to happen. Not telling other people what choices to make in it - maybe other people would want to be kept "alive," that's their choice. But, it's much better to actually be prepared ahead of time as opposed to stuck and not being able to do anything at all.
 
I really should have something written up, huh? My girlfriend can do wills and stuff, I should look into it.

Anyway, hopefully it turns out to be an unnecessary precaution for you. I want to see you here, calling out dangling participles for decades to come.
 

terrisus

Member
it's good that you got one of your worries down but fuck, this is super depressing :(

That's the thing - it's super-depressing, and people don't like to think about it...
But if the time comes when you need it, if you don't have it...

Dude, take blood thinners. Take care of your cardiovascular system.. You're 32.. you can turn this around

My stroke was hemorrhage, so to do with bleeding rather than a clot. I am trying to take better care of myself in general, but it won't really help too much with avoiding another stroke.

Anyway, hopefully it turns out to be an unnecessary precaution for you. I want to see you here, calling out dangling participles for decades to come.

You and I both <3
 

terrisus

Member
Ran me about a couple of grand. Depends on the attorney you hire and their tenure, I believe.

Yikes. I wouldn't have expected that big of a fluctuation.
Did you have any other legal stuff done then, or just the living will?


Well, I forget to mention that I had them write up several things and not just a living will including some trusts, durable power of attorney, etc. I also paid by the hour

Ah. Yeah, I was just in for the living will. She wrote it up before-hand, we just went over it and had witnesses there for the signatures, probably took like 20 minutes.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Home made wills do not necessarily cause problems as long as the required formalities are adhered to. I drafted my own will and made sure that no intestacy/ademption/lapse etc would occur, but then I have vast experience of the law due to my profession (I speak from a UK perspective).
 

terrisus

Member
Edmond Dantès;166553071 said:
Home made wills do not necessarily cause problems as long as the required formalities are adhered to. I drafted my own will and made sure that no intestacy/ademption/lapse etc would occur, but then I have vast experience of the law due to my profession (I speak from a UK perspective).

Yeah, my father had suggested just putting something together, and we know people who can be notaries to signatures... But still, I didn't want to have to worry about it or think about it again >.>


You're doing the right things.

May I humbly suggest something else to look into? A burial insurance policy. This is so weird to type and I type it with the caveat that I hope you live a 100 years but with the anecdote I just shared above, I cannot tell you how much it will help and it is cheap as dirt (I know you have said things are tight right now but this is something you can probably afford. At least look into it.)

<3

From a purely selfish point of view, I'm not all that worried about what happens after I die >.>
I mean, I know I should be... But my wife doesn't seem too concerned either, and she's the main one who would be impacted by it.

Something to check into at some point I suppose, but definitely not at the front of my mind.
 

Coketruck

Member
Ah. Yeah, I was just in for the living will. She wrote it up before-hand, we just went over it and had witnesses there for the signatures, probably took like 20 minutes.

First off, congrats on getting this taken care of. Trust me, you're way, way ahead of most people when it comes to pre-planning.

Second, as an elder law/estate planning attorney, I strongly recommend you get a Power of Attorney and Designation of Health Care Surrogate (a/k/a Florida's name for a Health Care Power of Attorney; probably different in your state) done as well. These are vitally important, because the living will basically just covers the "pull the plug" decision. A POA/DHCS gives your appointed Agent the authority to manage your financial and health care decisions should you ever become incapacitated. Without them, your wife (or father) wouldn't necessarily have that authority just because they're married/related to you.

If you have any questions about these documents, feel free to PM me. No charge for anonymous consultations on gaming-based forums.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Yeah, my father had suggested just putting something together, and we know people who can be notaries to signatures... But still, I didn't want to have to worry about it or think about it again >.>
Yes, it's always sensible to have a properly prepared will and to keep it in a safe place. Much easier for the beneficiaries to the will once the testator has died.
 

Coketruck

Member
Edmond Dantès;166553071 said:
Home made wills do not necessarily cause problems as long as the required formalities are adhered to. I drafted my own will and made sure that no intestacy/ademption/lapse etc would occur, but then I have vast experience of the law due to my profession (I speak from a UK perspective).

It varies in the US. For example, some states allow holographic (a/k/a hand-written) wills without any witness signatures or notarization, the rationale being that if it was done in the person's own handwriting, then that's proof enough that it's legit. However, my state (Florida) only allows holographic wills if they're witnessed and signed like a "normal" will would have to be.
 

terrisus

Member
First off, congrats on getting this taken care of. Trust me, you're way, way ahead of most people when it comes to pre-planning.

Second, as an elder law/estate planning attorney, I strongly recommend you get a Power of Attorney and Designation of Health Care Surrogate (a/k/a Florida's name for a Health Care Power of Attorney; probably different in your state) done as well. These are vitally important, because the living will basically just covers the "pull the plug" decision. A POA/DHCS gives your appointed Agent the authority to manage your financial and health care decisions should you ever become incapacitated. Without them, your wife (or father) wouldn't necessarily have that authority just because they're married/related to you.

If you have any questions about these documents, feel free to PM me. No charge for anonymous consultations on gaming-based forums.

I know when I was in the hospital before (around 2 years ago now), we filled out some papers for my wife to be able to make all the medical decisions as well. Not sure if that was just for that particular time, or in general. I suppose I should probably find out >.>

And, thanks =)
 

p2535748

Member
First off, congrats on getting this taken care of. Trust me, you're way, way ahead of most people when it comes to pre-planning.

Second, as an elder law/estate planning attorney, I strongly recommend you get a Power of Attorney and Designation of Health Care Surrogate (a/k/a Florida's name for a Health Care Power of Attorney; probably different in your state) done as well. These are vitally important, because the living will basically just covers the "pull the plug" decision. A POA/DHCS gives your appointed Agent the authority to manage your financial and health care decisions should you ever become incapacitated. Without them, your wife (or father) wouldn't necessarily have that authority just because they're married/related to you.

If you have any questions about these documents, feel free to PM me. No charge for anonymous consultations on gaming-based forums.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd also second this. My wife and I went to an attorney when we got married and had wills, POAs, and Health care surrogate stuff drawn up, along with advanced directives. It only ended up being ~ $500 for both of us, and it's so important just in case.

Now that we have a kid, I feel like it's even more important. I'm shocked how many people I know with children without even a will. Yeah, we're all relatively young, but shit happens.
 

Coketruck

Member
I know when I was in the hospital before (around 2 years ago now), we filled out some papers for my wife to be able to make all the medical decisions as well. Not sure if that was just for that particular time, or in general. I suppose I should probably find out >.>

And, thanks =)

No problem!

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd also second this. My wife and I went to an attorney when we got married and had wills, POAs, and Health care surrogate stuff drawn up, along with advanced directives. It only ended up being ~ $500 for both of us, and it's so important just in case.

Now that we have a kid, I feel like it's even more important. I'm shocked how many people I know with children without even a will. Yeah, we're all relatively young, but shit happens.

No kidding. So many of my first-time client appointments start with some variation of "We never expected __________". It's especially important when you have minor children, as you can name a guardian in your will that can take care of your kids in the event of you and your spouse's deaths. You'd think that would be something that people would want to make sure was put down in black and white, but noooooo.
 

Mexen

Member
*bro hug*
One less thing to worry about is good (of course I can't even begin to imagine what you've been through).
Please keep being positive and live your life as best as you can. You're one of my fav GAFfers here. Take care, terrisus.
 

terrisus

Member
*bro hug*
One less thing to worry about is good (of course I can't even begin to imagine what you've been through).
Please keep being positive and live your life as best as you can. You're one of my fav GAFfers here. Take care, terrisus.

Aww =) Thanks
Trying to do what I can.

But, yeah, one less thing to worry about, at least.

you know, can't say that I have.
;)

ohyou.jpg
 

Machine

Member
That's in the ballpark for what I expected. Thanks for the info.

Woah, definitely shopping around then.

The guy that paid a couple grand got more than a simple living will. All a living will does as appoint someone to make healthcare decisions for you if you are incapacitated. If you want a power of attorney, last will and testament, trust, or other estate planning device, the price will go up depending on the complexity.

EDIT - I see he explained it a few posts later.
 

Brakke

Banned
Good for you, Terry, taking some control / ownership over it. Better to think it through now while you're hale and healthy than never think it through and leave these decisions up to someone else who's confused and scared.
 

terrisus

Member
Good for you, Terry, taking some control / ownership over it. Better to think it through now while you're hale and healthy than never think it through and leave these decisions up to someone else who's confused and scared.

And at which point you might not get any input, either >.>
 

terrisus

Member
Well, I finally got around to scanning in the documents, backing them up electronically, sending a copy to my father (who's the secondary decision-making person listed on them), and he printed it out and also backed it up as well.

So, finally got that all taken care of.
Now I can finally feel assured of the fact that I can just die in peace.
(Assuming no stupid laws or legal arguments decide to try to supersede all of this anyway... Darn United States, just let me die >.>)
 
Of course, lucky me, living in the US, this country never seems particularly eager to let people die. However, making a living will involves actually going to a lawyer and paying a lawyer, and that hadn't happened so far. Yesterday, however, we did finally get down to a lawyer and put together a living will. So now at least they're not going to keep me in some kind of suspended state or anything, and my wife at least has power to tell them to just cut me off completely (with my father being the secondary in case something happens to her as well).
If you don't mind me asking, how specific does the Living Will go into medical detail regarding at what severity of sickness would you like to have withdrawal of care? I see two levels of severity that a Living Will are typically applied to, one more than the other, but only for one of those two levels does a Living Will become REALLY, REALLY helpful to the American medical professional.

The first level is the more common one. The severity of being at or near medical futility. Anecdotally, most Living Wills I've read state something to the effect of, "If I have a terminal medical condition for which I rely on continuous artificial life-sustaining treatment such as a mechanical ventilator, vasopressors or cardiac pump/defibrillation, and I cannot state my wishes, then I direct the attending physician to withhold or withdraw such procedures that merely prolong the act of naturally dying."

To clarify, in virtually ever situation where American health professionals (specifically, intensive care specialists) talk to family members about medical futility, and the family agrees to that, then a lack of a Living Will does not delay the withdrawal of life-sustaining measures.

It's the second level of severity that is more an area of controversy. To most American physicians, a persistent vegetative state is not a terminal condition, since neither brain death nor cardiac death is impending. So tube feeding can still occur and easily prolong life. If your Living Will specifically states that you do or do not want a feeding tube should you be in a persistent vegetative state, then your lawyer did a good job. If your Living Will does not state anything this specific, then I guarantee you'll have a slick yellow tube up your nose should you ever go into a persistent vegetative state.

One final comment, pretty much every American intensive care specialist would rather follow the directives from the Durable Power of Attorney (your wife) than that piece of paper. So if your wife should ever say, "Can you wait another day before you pull the plug? His brother/niece/pet hamster is flying in tomorrow and would like to see him before he goes," you can bet your ass that 99.5% of all American intensivists will keep you alive for another 24 hours, or however long it takes until your family is finally ready to let you go, regardless of what the Living Will states. Same thing if your wife ever says, "Don't let him go," then you're pretty much hosed.
 

TomShoe

Banned
When I die, I want my body to be encased in ice until technology can bring me back to life.

Yes, I'm afraid of death.
 
This seems like it was the smart thing to do. Hopefully you'll live a long and healthy life, though.

Good luck going forward
 

terrisus

Member
If your Living Will specifically states that you do or do not want a feeding tube should you be in a persistent vegetative state, then your lawyer did a good job. If your Living Will does not state anything this specific, then I guarantee you'll have a slick yellow tube up your nose should you ever go into a persistent vegetative state.

Yup, it had me specifically initial individually for no feeding tube and no breathing tube. So hopefully I'm good to go on that.


One final comment, pretty much every American intensive care specialist would rather follow the directives from the Durable Power of Attorney (your wife) than that piece of paper. So if your wife should ever say, "Can you wait another day before you pull the plug? His brother/niece/pet hamster is flying in tomorrow and would like to see him before he goes," you can bet your ass that 99.5% of all American intensivists will keep you alive for another 24 hours, or however long it takes until your family is finally ready to let you go, regardless of what the Living Will states. Same thing if your wife ever says, "Don't let him go," then you're pretty much hosed.

That's not the end of the world (so to speak). I don't mind a few extra days, and I know my pet cats would want to say goodbye (I don't even want to think what they would ever do without me. They were so miserable when I was in the hospital for a month and a half before). As long as I know the end is coming soon, I'm good.
 

terrisus

Member
When I die, I want my body to be encased in ice until technology can bring me back to life.

Yes, I'm afraid of death.

Hey, you can join Ted and John Henry Williams.

You'll want to get that officially written out as well though.

This seems like it was the smart thing to do. Hopefully you'll live a long and healthy life, though.

Good luck going forward

Yeah, as my father said after I sent it to him, let's hope we never have to look at it again.

Situation: You can eat, but machines do everything else.

I put down for no breathing tube, so away I go.

Sounds like a smart decision to make.
Wishing you the best of health dude.

You know, it was right around when you were being born that my 8th grade English teacher was talking to us about the importance of having a living will.
It's never too early to consider it >.>

But, yes, definitely hoping for good (or decent, or even mediocre) health.
 

acrid

Banned
Jesus Christ man, so sorry to hear of that, and at such a young age. I hope the worst is behind you, and you're able to live out a good long life.
 
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