Support NeoGAF

chadskin · Jul 29, 2015

I figured not everyone read the Polygon article about Gears, but in it, we find out more about the project The Coalition (formerly Black Tusk Studios, formerly MS Vancouver) worked on that was ultimately cancelled in favor of Gears 4. The name of the game was never publicly disclosed but according to ntkrnl it was called Shangheist.

A teaser of the project was shown at E3 2013: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidvu6UnDaM

Black Tusk started with a team of approximately 20 full-time staff in 2012 as the project began preproduction, adding staff to grow to almost 100 by the end of 2013. That’s when the Microsoft Studios mothership presented it with a unique scenario and a difficult choice.

"We could continue working on the IP we were working on," Crump says. "Or we had the opportunity to take on Gears of War."

"Microsoft was in discussions with Epic," Crump says. He and other senior members of Black Tusk assembled to discuss the studio's future. "We were hugely invested in what we were working on. You don’t spend a year and a half working on a game without getting attached to it. There was a lot of discussion."

The committee understood that not everyone at the studio would react positively to the change. "I’d be lying if I said there weren’t some people on the team who were disappointed when they found out the thing they’d been working on for so long was going to be shelved," Crump says. "If you’ve been in the game industry long enough, you’re going to go through project cancellations. People go through this period of mourning a bit. You have to give them that space and time to go through that, the sense of loss that people have around something they’re invested in."

But according to Crump, in the end, the final decision was a "no-brainer."

"We went around the table and everybody was in favor of going for Gears of War." On Friday, January 21, 2014, Crump, former General Manager Hanno Lemke and the management team announced to the studio that its in-development project would be canceled, and Black Tusk would immediately transition toward Gears of War.

Crump is cagey about what that game was. "We were in late preproduction. We didn’t have a full vertical slice," he says, referring to a limited, playable build meant to demonstrate a game's core features internally, and perhaps later at shows like E3. "That was something we were working on."

http://www.polygon.com/2015/7/28/9005697/gears-of-war-present-future

Those are certainly interesting comments if you compare them to what Phil Spencer had to say about the game/project last year:

"The thing we showed at E3 last year, it was something that was done in Unreal and more of a concept piece," Spencer said, calling it "an asset" created by the team to get their creative juices flowing, not necessarily an in-development game.

"The studio has really been incubating different ideas over the past six to nine months on what they might work on," he said, "but the discussion with Epic obviously didn't start yesterday. We've been in this discussion for a while. The leadership team there has known for a while."

http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/27/5345342/gears-of-war-xbox-one-microsoft-epic-games-rod-fergusson

Nightengale · Jul 29, 2015

B-b-but what Phil Spencer s-s-said

/s

ElTorro · Jul 29, 2015

A shame that they canceled a new and fresh IP that, according to what we know, looked pretty promising. The new Gears looks pretty good too, but most people would probably prefer a new IP over new Gears games. Generally speaking, I tend to be for new IPs and against extending existing story-driven IPs way beyond the trilogy format.

The Flash · Jul 29, 2015

Yeah that was interesting to read. I hope they don't completely scrap whatever Shangheist was/is. Maybe rework it and give it to another studio.

JayEH · Jul 29, 2015

Tough break.

Nightengale · Jul 29, 2015

The Flash said:
Yeah that was interesting to read. I hope they don't completely scrap whatever Shangheist was/is. Maybe rework it and give it to another studio.

I disagree. What's the point if the IP's concept is just thrown to another studio who didn't have the same investment and creative effort poured by the original devs?

If the core team of that IP at Coalition is willing to leave and join another studio, then that's a good idea. But otherwise, I'd rather they just sit on it instead of letting someone else adapt another person's creative.

That 'another studio' is better off being funded on their own creative passion.

CassidyIzABeast · Jul 29, 2015

So they asked them if they wanted to continue the new ip or jump on Gears and they chose Gears?

I blame Black Tusk for the new IP getting shelved. Phil is cleared of all wrong doing.

ChaosXVI · Jul 29, 2015

Man, I could never work in this industry...I can't imagine the thought of pouring all of my effort, for a year and a half, into a new, potentially massive project, only to be told halfway through that it's cancelled and instead we're going to be a sequel factory for an already existing series...

Not trying to shit on Gears 4, I'm sure it'll be great, but man...that'd be a tough pill to swallow for an employee.

Hoo-doo · Jul 29, 2015

I have a feeling this decision was inevitably heavily pressured by Microsoft, what with them having lost the developer of one of their three biggest mainline IP's. They needed a Gears developer and fast.

I really don't feel like they had a honest choice in the matter.

Mass_Pincup · Jul 29, 2015

I found it quite sad that they preferred going with Gears instead of creating something on their own.

Doug Heffernan · Jul 29, 2015

I'm all for their decision to work on Gears. It's not like Microsoft isn't still committed to new IP. They just announced Recore and Sea of Thieves with more new IP in the works.

llAuburnll · Jul 29, 2015

ChaosXVI said:
Man, I could never work in this industry...I can't imagine the thought of pouring all of my effort, for a year and a half, into a new, potentially massive project, only to be told halfway through that it's cancelled and instead we're going to be a sequel factory for an already existing series...

Not trying to shit on Gears 4, I'm sure it'll be great, but man...that'd be a tough pill to swallow for an employee.

Welcome to software development or really anything involving making new products.

benny_a · Jul 29, 2015

CassidyIzABeast said:
So they asked them if they wanted to continue the new ip or jump on Gears and they chose Gears?

I blame Black Tusk for the new IP getting shelved. Phil is cleared of all wrong doing.

Depends who is meant to have sit on the table.

If it's the full studio and this was a democratic decision then this is just what happens.
But the context of that quote could also just mean the management table.

Rymuth · Jul 29, 2015

Hoo-doo said:
I have a feeling this decision was inevitably heavily pressured by Microsoft, what with them having lost the developer of one of their three biggest mainline IP's. They needed a Gears developer and fast.

I really don't feel like they had a honest choice in the matter.

Your thoughts mirror mine

SEGAvangelist · Jul 29, 2015

OP missed the part about no full vertical slice even being ready yet.

Crump is cagey about what that game was. "We were in late preproduction. We didnt have a full vertical slice," he says, referring to a limited, playable build meant to demonstrate a game's core features internally, and perhaps later at shows like E3. "That was something we were working on."

Should probably be included.

The Flash · Jul 29, 2015

Nightengale said:
I disagree. What's the point if the IP's concept is just thrown to another studio who didn't have the same investment and creative effort poured by the original devs?

If the core team of that IP at Coalition is willing to leave and join another studio, then that's a good idea. But otherwise, I'd rather they just sit on it instead of letting someone else adapt another person's creative.

That 'another studio' is better off being funded on their own creative passion.

These are actually really good points.

Omega · Jul 29, 2015

ElTorro said:
A shame that they canceled a new and fresh IP that, according to what we know, looked pretty promising.

huh? they showed a little teaser and almost never spoke of the game unless I'm mistaken

ElTorro · Jul 29, 2015

that omega guy said:
huh? they showed a little teaser and almost never spoke of the game unless I'm mistaken

We had some insider impressions here and there. Don't have links anymore.

Elandyll · Jul 29, 2015

CassidyIzABeast said:
So they asked them if they wanted to continue the new ip or jump on Gears and they chose Gears?

I blame Black Tusk for the new IP getting shelved. Phil is cleared of all wrong doing.

I think you got to understand the long term implications for a studio like Black Tusk.

On one hand, if Shangheist bombed... What would their future be? Maybe one more shot at something before severe consequences?

As the GeoW studio... That's pretty much "forever" (alongside MS Studios).

Doug Heffernan · Jul 29, 2015

Bear Cub in Sky said:
OP missed the part about no full vertical slice even being ready yet.

Should probably be included.

Absolutely. Late preproduction means they didn't even have a working prototype yet. The E3 thing really was just a tech demo.

SEGAvangelist · Jul 29, 2015

that omega guy said:
huh? they showed a little teaser and almost never spoke of the game unless I'm mistaken

Yeah, we don't know much other than CBoaT saying it looked good, and his "leaks" were getting really crappy around that time.

Journey · Jul 29, 2015

Nightengale said:
B-b-but what Phil Spencer s-s-said

/s

Let's examine what he said:

"The thing we showed at E3 last year, it was something that was done in Unreal and more of a concept piece," Spencer said, calling it "an asset" created by the team to get their creative juices flowing, not necessarily an in-development game.

"The studio has really been incubating different ideas over the past six to nine months on what they might work on," he said, "but the discussion with Epic obviously didn't start yesterday. We've been in this discussion for a while. The leadership team there has known for a while."

Relating to how things work in my company, this sounds about right. Leadership rarely shares all the info with all their employees. They might have been poking some ideas, but ultimately the decision had been locked down for quite some time before everyone else on the lower part of the totem pole was aware.

Torment · Jul 29, 2015

I think they went the guaranteed route, there is no guarantee at all the new IP would have been fully backed or pushed much further. Gears has MS full backing and is a guaranteed pay check.

Zombie James · Jul 29, 2015

So is Black Tusk just going to be a Gears of War factory or will they be allowed to go back to their original idea?

Nightengale · Jul 29, 2015

Journey said:
Let's examine what he said:

I had /s there for a reason. =P

Ghost Slayer · Jul 29, 2015

that omega guy said:
huh? they showed a little teaser and almost never spoke of the game unless I'm mistaken

it was like teaser of teaser if i remembered, just studio logo and "New Black Tusk game". We don't even know the title

Sydle · Jul 29, 2015

It's not surprising they went down a far less risky path.

Hoo-doo said:
I have a feeling this decision was inevitably heavily pressured by Microsoft, what with them having lost the developer of one of their three biggest mainline IP's. They needed a Gears developer and fast.

I really don't feel like they had a honest choice in the matter.

Because it means you'd have to backpedal on some things you've suggested before?

Is it really all that surprising that a new development studio charged with the task of creating the next big IP, that given the chance, went with a well known quantity that's bound to sell millions over launching a new IP? Choosing the Gears IP gives them a lot of leverage to gather resources, attract talent, and build the studio.

They have no reason to lie.

JaggedSac · Jul 29, 2015

Mass_Pincup said:
I found it quite sad that they preferred going with Gears instead of creating something on their own.

Gears is going to make money. Their new IP might not have. That thought certainly goes into consideration.

chadskin · Jul 29, 2015

Bear Cub in Sky said:
OP missed the part about no full vertical slice even being ready yet.

Should probably be included.

I did! Thanks, added it in.

RowdyReverb · Jul 29, 2015

CassidyIzABeast said:
So they asked them if they wanted to continue the new ip or jump on Gears and they chose Gears?

I blame Black Tusk for the new IP getting shelved. Phil is cleared of all wrong doing.

Mass_Pincup said:
I found it quite sad that they preferred going with Gears instead of creating something on their own.

It would be tempting to take on an established franchise from a risk aversion standpoint. It's virtually guaranteed to sell well, so it means more people would be likely to keep their jobs after it's done. A new IP that fizzles could be detrimental to the people who made it.

AusRoachman · Jul 29, 2015

What little they showed didnt really scream anything new . All we saw was sone shots of shanghai and sone guy running/shooting, i think it was a long way off being anything playable.

Mind you not sure why ms couldnt continue with it and just have another offshoot team doing gears. We always knew once they spent a billion buying the franchise they were going to do something with it as soon as possible.

Ghost Slayer · Jul 29, 2015

Zombie James said:
So is Black Tusk just going to be a Gears of War factory or will they be allowed to go back to their original idea?

Gears of War factory based on studio head said (can't remember his name. sr)

eshwaaz · Jul 29, 2015

I remember the incredible excitement around Gears of War when it was first revealed - the kind of excitement that can only come from a new IP. Knowing that a promising new IP was scrapped in favor of a 5th Gears game is extremely depressing to me.

Triggerhappytel · Jul 29, 2015

But I thought their Shangheist trailer was just a concept piece?!

EDIT - I'm an idiot; this was even mentioned at the bottom of the OP.

KORNdoggy · Jul 29, 2015

I would have preferred the stealth looking game tbh. Especially after what they showed of gears 4 at E3.

RE_Player · Jul 29, 2015

Go figure making something new is harder and more time consuming than making the same old shit. Seems like the common story for this generation. New IPs are few and far between and we are getting remakes, remasters and sequels from franchises of the last generation.

FunkyPajamas · Jul 29, 2015

Zombie James said:
So is Black Tusk just going to be a Gears of War factory or will they be allowed to go back to their original idea?

I guess it depends on how well the next Gears does, but since they've already changed their name and made a huge deal of being "The Gears team", I don't think they're going to be working on a new IP in the next 3-4 years.

FStop7 · Jul 29, 2015

Sounded far more interesting than yet more Gears.

The fact they're publicly acknowledging there was "some disappointment" rather than repeating the party line of extreme enthusiasm says a lot, too.

Newtype-001 · Jul 29, 2015

Hope they go back to it at some point.

RowdyReverb · Jul 29, 2015

Triggerhappytel said:
But I thought their Shangheist trailer was just a concept piece?!

He doesn't necessarily say that the teaser was from the game they were making either. Both things can be true.

BluenoseGames · Jul 29, 2015

This is kinda sad ... take a chance on a new IP, don't ride on the popularity of an old one.

Mass_Pincup · Jul 29, 2015

JaggedSac said:
Gears is going to make money. Their new IP might not have. That thought certainly goes into consideration.

Sure but that just shows a lack of confidence in their product or they don't really care about creating something new and just want to have a secure employment (nothing wrong with that).

From MS's perspective I totally see how that was a "no brainer" but for the studio itself I don't understand how it could be an easy decision. They're basically signed off to work on the same universe based on the same rules for years.

j0hnnix · Jul 29, 2015

But... but... where the hell is Marcus Fenix....

SlickShoesRUCrazy · Jul 29, 2015

Should have stayed blacktusk and worked on both gears and the new ip

uncledonnie · Jul 29, 2015

This seems like things went the way they should have then. I predict people will read into it whatever assumptions they need to make to fit their preconceived notions though.

llAuburnll · Jul 29, 2015

Mass_Pincup said:
Sure but that just shows a lack of confidence in their product or they don't really care about creating something new.

From MS's perspective I totally see how that was a "no brainer" but for the studio itself I don't understand how it could be an easy decision. They're basically signed off to work on the same universe based on the same rules for years.

It's a business decision. They may not have been in a secure place to gamble on a new ip. Making the wrong decision costs people's jobs. I completely see how they took a good, solid option that grows their studio.

Iced Arcade · Jul 29, 2015

People read to much into things. A year into a game from scratch is basically what phil said it was. Months go into just concept with a new IP. Even with concept people could still feel invested in the project.

SEGAvangelist · Jul 29, 2015

llAuburnll said:
It's a business decision. They may not have been in a secure place to gamble on a new ip. Making the wrong decision costs people's jobs. I completely see how they took a good, solid option that grows their studio.

I'm also sure their decision felt validated once they heard Rod was coming into the studio. His reputation of hitting deadlines and producing quality was probably quite a morale boost for the studio.

iMax · Jul 29, 2015

If Gears of War 4 does well, perhaps Microsoft would be interested in expanding the studio a bit, perhaps bring back Black Tusk as a secondary team. That would be great.

jschreier · Jul 29, 2015

I'm pretty sure it was actually called Ranger.

Support NeoGAF

Gears 4 dev The Coalition speaks about previous cancelled project (aka Shangheist)

Member

Member

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.

Banned

Junior Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

extra source of jiggaflops

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads